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In the Name of God بسم الله

Hamas Surprise Attack: Operation 'Al-Aqsa Storm'

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5 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

As Chomsky says, they can 'win every war but the last one'. 

The saying goes that one ought not to raise more demons than one can lay down. The squatter 'civilians' who took over generations-old houses, farmlands, groves and orchards, razed entire districts to make way for settler-colonies, sparing not even babies and the elderly on their deathbed, effectively acting as civil appendages as the military ethnostate grimacing at the taste of their own medicine is as comical as it is sanctimonious. There are no innocent 'civilians' here. In military evacuations of native neighborhoods or the routine desecrastions of the haram ash-shareef, the IDF is always accompanied by hordes of these 'civilian' squatters chanting genocidal slogans. Just karma catching up. May the rockets keep shelling more of their houses. May they get to taste more blood. May more brickbats kiss their craniums. Every squatter is a belligerent and an appendage of the occupation. No remorse for them suffering whatsoever. 

Damn, you're the mother of all wordsmiths...totally on point!...I concur 100%

Edited by Eddie Mecca
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6 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

As Chomsky says, they can 'win every war but the last one'. 

The saying goes that one ought not to raise more demons than one can lay down. The squatter 'civilians' who took over generations-old houses, farmlands, groves and orchards, razed entire districts to make way for settler-colonies, sparing not even babies and the elderly on their deathbed, effectively acting as civil appendages of the military ethnostate grimacing at the taste of their own medicine is as comical as it is sanctimonious. There are no innocent 'civilians' here. In military evacuations of native neighborhoods or the routine desecrastions of the haram ash-shareef, the IDF is always accompanied by hordes of these 'civilian' squatters chanting genocidal slogans. Just karma catching up. May the rockets keep shelling more of their houses. May they get to taste more blood. May more brickbats kiss their craniums. Every squatter is a belligerent and an appendage of the occupation. No remorse for them suffering whatsoever. 

It’s good that you people are honest about your spiritual approach here. 

No principles. No values. Just naked vengefulness and hate. 

 

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It was a very unwise action and the poor people of Gaza will pay for it!

 

By the way, i recommend you to read the articles written by Uri Avnery (the Israeli journalist who defended muslims when Pop accused them of violence) which you can find in the link below. They are interesting and give you a wider perspective of the relationships between Israel and Palestine:

 

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery

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On 10/8/2023 at 6:51 PM, kadhim said:

It certainly matters to our Maker.

You remember Him, right?

It’s all the same what they do, so might as well act like savages? That’s your argument? That’s your ethical orientation? 

 

 

But you just said that it's bad optics and how the rest of the world will condemn the palestinians and that they have to think about what those poor westerners are going to think. And then you turn around and say that they should care about their makers. Try to be a bit less schizophrenic.

But since you wanna talk about our creator, Islam clearly calls upon muslims to resist their oppressors. It doesn't call upon muslims to try to appease racist people and media who will demonize them no matter what. IDF have killed far more civilians

I know what you're gonna say next. "Let's not stoop down to their level!". While you are busy virtue-signalling about taking the high road, the IDF is killing infants and children in cold blood. But I suppose for you, dead palestinian infants and children are a price worth paying in order to not "stoop down to their level"

Wars of liberation is an ugly business. It's always a tragedy when innocent people die. Nothing ever comes easy. If it was up to people like you, Algeria would still be a french colony since you don't wanna "stoop down to their level", Africa would still be European colonies.

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2 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Much gusto, little substance. Nice moral grandstanding, but not buying the gaslighting. 

Hatred of oppression and oppressors is a sign of belief. I don't know what your spiritual approach, principal or values are, but I for one am glad not to share in them if it entails laughable false equivalences, dishonest both-sideism and tarring the victim and victimizers with the same broad brush. 

Let me dummy it down for you- I don't care if the one coming to occupy my house, maim my children, violate and assault my womenfolk and kill me comes in military fatigues or jerseys and trousers; I'll leave him with a bloody nose, a disfigured face and make his mother mourn for him. 

You are too conveniently perched in your ignorant and self-righteous ivory tower to realize that an occupied people are faced with an enemy horde where everyone is guilty until proven innocent. You haven't been through what the ones you demonize go through on a daily basis, and it shows in your hollow moralising.

I don't know about you, but for the one whose every waking moment is a living hell of pain and ignominy, hate and vengefulness is the natural reaction. I am not going to waste any more time on this, but I only pray that may your house never be taken over by 'civilian' occupiers (with whom you so dearly associate), may your womenfolk never get violated by them, may your young son never be shot through the head, may your daughter never be strip-searched on her way to school, may your elderly grandma never be yanked out of her bed, dazed, to be told that they're going to pull down the house to make room for a new one for those 'civilians', may you never become a refugee and second class citizen in your own home and homeland jeered at and humiliated daily by those 'civilians', and the most heinous of all, Allah forbid that some self-righteous being sitting continents and oceans away should lecture you on 'principles and values' on top of all this. 

If you cannot understand their (justified) anger, kindly do not spit on their shrouds and make water on their graves. They are no longer willing to suck it up. 

I, and most of us here can do without such noxious 'values' and 'principles', thank you. 

 

It’s not a contest of who suffered the most or who was the baddest. That’s not the conversation we’re having here. 

You want to shriek and call me the enemy because I tell you what you don’t want to hear, you go ahead.

But here is what the world is seeing of this conflict. They’re seeing images on the TV and internet of:

  • the broken body of a naked female hostage being paraded through streets in Gaza on the back of a pickup truck while a crowd spits on the body
  • a pickup truck carrying women holding frightened children
  •  a woman being carted off on a motorbike while thugs beat on her boyfriend
  • a zip-tied woman being led out of a vehicle with a giant blood stain on the seat of her pants

They’re hearing stories of people being executed on the spot.

Everyone else is seeing this and hearing this. 

True or false: objectively and unconditionally, none of this is behavior allowed for a Muslim?

True or false?

So why are people making light of it and even cheering it?

What kind of Muslims are you? 

I thought the whole idea was that we are supposed to be better? No?

If not, what is the point?

 

Edited by kadhim
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12 minutes ago, Dubilex said:

 

But you just said that it's bad optics and how the rest of the world will condemn the palestinians and that they have to think about what those poor westerners are going to think. And then you turn around and say that they should care about their makers. Try to be a bit less schizophrenic.

But since you wanna talk about our creator, Islam clearly calls upon muslims to resist their oppressors. It doesn't call upon muslims to try to appease racist people and media who will demonize them no matter what. IDF have killed far more civilians

I know what you're gonna say next. "Let's not stoop down to their level!". While you are busy virtue-signalling about taking the high road, the IDF is killing infants and children in cold blood. But I suppose for you, dead palestinian infants and children are a price worth paying in order to not "stoop down to their level"

Wars of liberation is an ugly business. It's always a tragedy when innocent people die. Nothing ever comes easy. If it was up to people like you, Algeria would still be a french colony since you don't wanna "stoop down to their level", Africa would still be European colonies.

True or false. In Islam, there are actions that are not morally allowed in warfare. There are standards. True or false?

Is it OK in Islam for example to parade the naked corpse of a female hostage through the streets and abuse the body?

Edited by kadhim
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9 minutes ago, kadhim said:

It’s not a contest of who suffered the most or who was the baddest. That’s not the conversation we’re having here. 

You want to shriek and call me the enemy because I tell you what you don’t want to hear, you go ahead.

But here is what the world is seeing of this conflict. They’re seeing images on the TV and internet of:

  • the broken body of a naked female hostage being paraded through streets in Gaza on the back of a pickup truck while a crowd spits on the body
  • a pickup truck carrying women holding frightened children
  •  a woman being carted off on a motorbike while thugs beat on her boyfriend
  • a zip-tied woman being led out of a vehicle with a giant blood stain on the seat of her pants

They’re hearing stories of people being executed on the spot.

Everyone else is seeing this and hearing this. 

True or false: objectively and unconditionally, none of this is behavior allowed for a Muslim.

True or false?

So why are people making light of it and even cheering it?

What kind of Muslims are you? 

I thought the whole idea was that we are supposed to be better? No?

If not, what is the point?

 

You care waaaaaaaaaaay too much about how westerners (non-muslims) perceive Muslims. 

Edited by gajarkahalva
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21 minutes ago, kadhim said:

Is it OK in Islam for example to parade the naked corpse of a female hostage through the streets and abuse the body?

One must adhere to the code of conduct mentioned clearly by Quran. 

Having said that, why your criticism is exhausted when it comes to human rights violation done by IDF from dacades?

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35 minutes ago, kadhim said:

It’s not a contest of who suffered the most or who was the baddest. That’s not the conversation we’re having here. 

You want to shriek and call me the enemy because I tell you what you don’t want to hear, you go ahead.

But here is what the world is seeing of this conflict. They’re seeing images on the TV and internet of:

  • the broken body of a naked female hostage being paraded through streets in Gaza on the back of a pickup truck while a crowd spits on the body
  • a pickup truck carrying women holding frightened children
  •  a woman being carted off on a motorbike while thugs beat on her boyfriend
  • a zip-tied woman being led out of a vehicle with a giant blood stain on the seat of her pants

They’re hearing stories of people being executed on the spot.

Everyone else is seeing this and hearing this. 

True or false: objectively and unconditionally, none of this is behavior allowed for a Muslim?

True or false?

So why are people making light of it and even cheering it?

What kind of Muslims are you? 

I thought the whole idea was that we are supposed to be better? No?

If not, what is the point?

 

Again, typical of your responses. Why are you wilfully misrepresenting the issue? 

I urge you to look at sister @ireallywannaknow 's post on the other related thread. Why are you not listening (or wilfully ignoring) what the occupied themselves have to say about this? Whatever happened to 'pass-the-mic'? No body is cheering these specific instances of blood and gore. What the people are cheering here is the armed resistance in and of itself. I don't know how to break it to you, but entire movements and struggles are not thrown under the bus for the instances of thuggery and savagery that occur within them. No body here is cheering women being paraded naked. What people are cheering is the fact that the people who are fond of parading women naked, strip searching schoolgirls, sexually assaulting female detainees and whatnot have got a befitting reply in the form of the airstrikes. And no, I am not going to denounce and disown the entire armed resistance because of these instances of savagery. I don't care a wee bit about Hamas. It goes without saying that women prisoners of war must not be paraded naked. Those who did so and overstepped the bounds of the Shariah will answer their Lord in due time. All the same I refuse to buy the 'civilian' argument and unapologetically believe that the occupiers deserve every bit of the losses- in life and property-being inflicted upon them. 

 

Edited by AbdusSibtayn
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I’ll be objective here, my assessment is that this event was a Palestinian attempt to gain the parity of violence. It makes sense because not surprisingly - and sadly because it costs so many human lives - the parity of violence is the single most significant deterrent against the aggressors of the past and present.

Since Jan. 1, 2023, there has been 300 Palestinian teenagers shot.

Oct. 5, 2023: Another 200 victims in a drone attack in Homs military graduation ceremony 

Oct. 7/8, 2023: Roughly 700 Israeli casualties in cross border response of the 2023 murders of Palestinians 

We are living in a fast changing world: Russia turning to Asia, China phasing out of the markets of Europe, India manufacturing iPhones lol, Karabakh MIA’d from Armenia, Ukraine soon in the same bucket of Yugoslavia, Israel has to learn to behave like a West Asian country if it needs to survive in that neighborhood. Just because FIFA counts them as European doesn’t make them in Europe. 

Past equation: Hit, run, and duck from rock throws

New equation: i for a p

My prediction, there will be even more death and destruction in coming weeks, but if Palestinians could manage to impose the new equation, it would be the game changer for all the communities involved, Jews, Muslims, and Christians. 

Casual note: I was reading a news article’s hate monger chat on Foxnews and some common sense republican posted this after being burnt at supporting the freedom fighters in Palestine.

Gloria Gaynore (Lyrics: I’ll Survive)

Go on now, go, walk out the door
Just turn around now
'Cause you're not welcome anymore
Weren't you the one who tried to hurt me with goodbye?
You think I'd crumble?
You think I'd lay down and die?

Oh no, not I, I will survive
Oh, as long as I know how to love, I know I'll stay alive
I've got all my life to live
And I've got all my love to give and I'll survive
I will survive

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1 hour ago, kadhim said:

True or false. In Islam, there are actions that are not morally allowed in warfare. There are standards. True or false?

Is it OK in Islam for example to parade the naked corpse of a female hostage through the streets and abuse the body?

 

You are disproportionately focusing on what the palestinian side is doing. Throughout all of human history, war has always been an ugly business. That's just human nature, the reality of it. And no amount of your woke ideology will change that.

 

But again, Gaza is an open air prison where people barely have enough to eat and drink. You want starving people to take the high road against a brutal apartheid state. If it was up to you, South Africa would still be ruled by white supremacists.

 

You're talking as if Netanyahu is Richard Lionheart 

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1 hour ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Again, typical of your responses. Why are you wilfully misrepresenting the issue? 

I urge you to look at sister @ireallywannaknow 's post on the other related thread. Why are you not listening (or wilfully ignoring) what the occupied themselves have to say about this? Whatever happened to 'pass-the-mic'? No body is cheering these specific instances of blood and gore. What the people are cheering here is the armed resistance in and of itself. I don't know how to break it to you, but entire movements and struggles are not thrown under the bus for the instances of thuggery and savagery that occur within them. No body here is cheering women being paraded naked. What people are cheering is the fact that the people who are fond of parading women naked, strip searching schoolgirls, sexually assaulting female detainees and whatnot have got a befitting reply in the form of the airstrikes. And no, I am not going to denounce and disown the entire armed resistance because of these instances of savagery. I don't care a wee bit about Hamas. It goes without saying that women prisoners of war must not be paraded naked. Those who did so and overstepped the bounds of the Shariah will answer their Lord in due time. All the same I refuse to buy the 'civilian' argument and unapologetically believe that the occupiers deserve every bit of the losses- in life and property-being inflicted upon them. 

 

If the occupied people have words to say to distance themselves from the abuses, they’re not speaking loudly enough, because it’s not getting through. It’s just not. And so when people see Palestinians protesting in favor of the military action, they see it as cheering for the abuses. 

Shoot the messenger or intelligently adjust in response to that, as you like. I’m just telling you the truth of how this is being seen. The cause has lost a lot of sympathy overnight. And that’s going to make it much much worse for Palestinians than an operation with some basic military discipline would have done. Fact.

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Just now, ireallywannaknow said:

One thing to remember is that it would not be beneath Zionists or unusual for Zionists to do horrendous acts and then pose it to look like the Palestinians did it. They would no doubt sacrifice their own to that end. 

Sigh. We’re playing this card now, are we?

 

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14 minutes ago, kadhim said:

No. I want them to take the minimal ethical bar surpassing road. 

It's very easy for you to sit in the comfort of the West and telling starving and thirsty people how they should act and behave against brutal apartheid occupiers.  

I also live in the comfort of the West. But I do not presume to tell the palestinians how they should act and behave. I don't live there

Edited by Dubilex
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2 minutes ago, Dubilex said:

It's very easy for you to sit in the comfort of the West and telling starving and thirsty people how they should act and behave against brutal apartheid occupiers.  

I also live in the comfort of the West. But I do not presume to tell the palestinians how they should act and behave. I don't live there

If I’m not allowed to say “stick to fighting soldiers and equipment and leave the bystanders out of it and don’t commit atrocities,” regardless of where I am sitting, then what are we even doing here?

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6 hours ago, kadhim said:

It’s good that you people are honest about your spiritual approach here. 

No principles. No values. Just naked vengefulness and hate. 

 

Wait...wait...we are supposed to take principles and values from you who promotes the alphabet mafia and now you want to pull on our heart strings to feel sorry for Zionists who call us cockroachs, sub humans, and animals?

Take your tolerance and inclusivity garbage elsewhere.

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2 hours ago, Cool said:

One must adhere to the code of conduct mentioned clearly by Quran. 

Thanks for acknowledging that.

2 hours ago, Cool said:

Having said that, why your criticism is exhausted when it comes to human rights violation done by IDF from dacades?

1. I’ve put in a goodly share of hours over a couple of decades doing that, thank you very much. 

2. There are a lot of voices in the community speaking out about what the IDF is doing wrong,  and that’s great. But if no one keeps our own guys honest, then we have no moral standing in this, aside from people’s romantic sympathies for the underdog. 

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18 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

There are no civilians in Israel. Everyone is an enemy combatant. The State of Israel requires every Israeli citizen over the age of 18 who is Jewish, Druze or Circassian to serve in the Israel Defense Forces.

I don't think you understand how it works.  There is compulsory service, but some people are cooks, some are mechanics, some are medics, etc.  They all aren't combat trained.  

But, regardless, just because someone served at one point in time in the military doesn't mean you can attack them when they are in the streets or in their homes.  Further, even if they are active military, do you think it justifies attacking them in their homes, with their family?  

20 hours ago, Zainuu said:

This statement has no basis. Palestinians captured military bases, military equipment from IDF and captured there commanders and soldiers. While this is happening, you are 'sure' that most of those killed were civilians?

Don't forget that Israel follows a citizen army protocol. Every citizen has combat experience and every citizen is armed. In a war zone, everyone who carries arms is a legitimate target.

So, stop making such assumptions and policing Iran of what to do and what not. Also, hizbullah is more shia than us if you take the note and they are more close to the situation than us. Atleast in hours like these we can trust our fellow mumineen instead of adopting the attitude of kufans.

Have you seen the video of them attacking the music festival?  Or them pulling women and children into vehicles covered in blood?  How do you justify any of that?  Most of those people aren't carrying arms.  

Hey, if Iran or HIzbullah wants to attack, they can try.  But they will get their teeth kicked in.  The entire world is on Israel's side.  There is a US carrier strike group in the region that will resupply Israel with unlimited arms.  Israel will get messier and messier and start attacking more and more civilian targets.  All those Hizbullah fighters will have their homes hit by rockets, because after all they're legitimate targets right?  At least that's what you seem to suggest.

 

Stop blindly supporting something that is wrong just because it happens to someone you don't like.

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38 minutes ago, coldcow said:

Have you seen the video of them attacking the music festival?  Or them pulling women and children into vehicles covered in blood?  How do you justify any of that?  Most of those people aren't carrying arms.  

Attacking unarmed civilians is not allowed in Islam, they must only target the military targets.

Quote

Hey, if Iran or HIzbullah wants to attack, they can try.  But they will get their teeth kicked in.  The entire world is on Israel's side.  There is a US carrier strike group in the region that will resupply Israel with unlimited arms.  Israel will get messier and messier and start attacking more and more civilian targets.  All those Hizbullah fighters will have their homes hit by rockets, because after all they're legitimate targets right?  At least that's what you seem to suggest.

It is really all about geopolitics and economy. Hisbullah And Iran are very aware of such situation, that is why for all these years they have not make such a drastic movement, because there is not enough support from other countries that could shun the western powers. Iran joining Brics and the East side at least gives them a way to move out of sanctions and economically grow and having other countries to depend on Iran. It can take many years when Iran have enough power to really take an drastic movement toward Israel. But this is why the enemy know this and tries to destroy Iran before Iran becomes more powerful.

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47 minutes ago, coldcow said:

Israel will get messier and messier

Let's get messier and messier

47 minutes ago, coldcow said:

There is a US carrier strike group in the region that will resupply Israel with unlimited arms. 

I have a meme for every occasion

 

FB_IMG_1578648074840.jpg

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6 hours ago, kadhim said:

If the occupied people have words to say to distance themselves from the abuses, they’re not speaking loudly enough, because it’s not getting through. It’s just not. And so when people see Palestinians protesting in favor of the military action, they see it as cheering for the abuses. 

Shoot the messenger or intelligently adjust in response to that, as you like. I’m just telling you the truth of how this is being seen. The cause has lost a lot of sympathy overnight. And that’s going to make it much much worse for Palestinians than an operation with some basic military discipline would have done. Fact.

Ah yes, all the moral burden on the occupied to appear gentlemen. Why will a hostile discourse cover anything positive about the occupied? What has been their track record in the past 75 or so years? Yes, they are disowning the violent excess sans any MSM coverage of the same. There are social media posts about it. Why do you think that the videos of those violent acts are being played on a loop but there's no coverage of the occupied as well as the refugees disowning what is obviously morally wrong? 

Yes there have been excesses. Yes they are morally indefensible and wrong too. What is also wrong and morally indefensible is to lump together violent excesses by enraged young men whose lives have been destroyed by the apartheid killing machine with those by the settler colonialist killing and raping for the glee of it, and saying that both of these are one and the same. There is such a thing as 'mitigating circumstances' in criminal jurisprudence, and nearly all of the civilized world adheres to this principle in trying crimes. 

Also nobody cares about what the 'world'- whoever they may be- are thinking. During the Sheikh Jarrah evacuations of 2021 Summer, the same 'world' which is throwing fits and frothing at the mouth at women being beaten and taken hostages did not as much as bat an eyelid when the IDF personnel openly bragged about raping Palestinian women at gunpoint on social media. Yes hitting and rounding up women and children is wrong. But it is still more humane than raping then at gunpoint. It's funny how those who have it much worse and are being called savages are still more humane even in their excesses. Those who did not as much let out a whimper of protest then, have no moral right to whine now. The 'world' would do well to reflect why it turns a blind eye to violence committed out of deliberation, and barks about that committed out of desperation. They have abandoned and refused to help the besieged, and they have no moral locus standi to lecture them on morals and ethics when the latter have knives against their throats. If we are talking 'facts', let's talk all of them. 

Edited by AbdusSibtayn
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1 hour ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Let's get messier and messier

I have a meme for every occasion

 

FB_IMG_1578648074840.jpg

So you're saying Israel should get messier with their strikes and kill more Palestinian civilians?  That's pretty disgusting.

 

Also, don't really understand your meme.  More specifically how it is a meme.  But ok.  

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7 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Ah yes, all the moral burden on the occupied to appear gentlemen. Why will a hostile discourse cover anything positive about the occupied? What has been their track record in the past 75 or so years? Do you seriously need help with this? 

Yes there have been excesses. Yes they are morally indefensible and wrong too. What is also wrong and morally indefensible is to lump together violent excesses by enraged young men whose lives have been destroyed by the apartheid killing machine with those by the settler colonialist killing and raping for the glee of it, and saying that both of these are one and the same. There is such a thing as 'mitigating circumstances' in criminal jurisprudence, and nearly all of the civilized world adheres to this principle in trying crimes. 

Also nobody cares about what the 'world'- whoever they may be- are thinking. During the Sheikh Jarrah evacuations of 2021 Summer, the same 'world' which is throwing fits and frothing at the mouth at women being beaten and taken hostages did not as much as bat an eyelid when the IDF personnel openly bragged about raping Palestinian women at gunpoint on social media. Yes hitting and rounding up women and children is wrong. But it is still more humane than raping then at gunpoint. It's funny how those who have it much worse and are being called savages are still more humane even in their excesses. Those who did not as much let out a whimper of protest then, have no moral right to whine now. The 'world' would do well to reflect why it turns a blind eye to violence committed out of deliberation, and barks about that committed out of desperation. They have refused to help the besieged, and they have no moral locus standi to lecture them on morals and ethics when the latter have knives against their throats. If we are talking 'facts', let's talk all of them. 

It doesn't matter what someone has done.  You cannot use the  actions of one person to justify harm against another.  If you want to go after an IDF soldier that raped a woman, then do that.  But there is no justification in killing women and children, or even other men, that had no involvement.  You also make it sound like this is a common occurrence.  Bad people exist everywhere, and I'm sure there are Palestinians that have committed atrocities to Israeli civilians and women (in fact they just killed nearly a 1000).  Are you saying that justifies indiscriminate targetting of Palestinians by Israelis?

 

Remember, if it weren't for the world and the US holding back Israel, they would have wiped Gaza off the map years ago.  I fear they are going to come close to turning Gaza into an even bigger pile of  rubble in the coming weeks and months than it already is.  There will aim for so much blood shed that Gaza won't think of doing anything like this ever again.

 

And the saddest part is the Muslims on the sidelines doing nothing but cheering for the Palestinians to fight back and get slaughtered.  

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On 10/8/2023 at 1:15 AM, Eddie Mecca said:

FULL ANALYSIS: Hamas' Unprecedented Attack on Israel...Israeli General Captured! Richard Medhurst (1 hour)

 

really this is a very good video, thanks Mr Richard

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6 hours ago, kadhim said:

If I’m not allowed to say “stick to fighting soldiers and equipment and leave the bystanders out of it and don’t commit atrocities,” regardless of where I am sitting, then what are we even doing here?

Except that there are no 'bystanders' here, as has been explained umpteen times. Please stop lying. 

 

6 hours ago, kadhim said:

Sigh. We’re playing this card now, are we?

 

Can you please explain why it's not a possibility? Genuine question, not trolling Or satirizing. 

 

25 minutes ago, coldcow said:

It doesn't matter what someone has done.  You cannot use the  actions of one person to justify harm against another.  If you want to go after an IDF soldier that raped a woman, then do that.  But there is no justification in killing women and children, or even other men, that had no involvement.  You also make it sound like this is a common occurrence.  Bad people exist everywhere, and I'm sure there are Palestinians that have committed atrocities to Israeli civilians and women (in fact they just killed nearly a 1000).  Are you saying that justifies indiscriminate targetting of Palestinians by Israelis?

 

Remember, if it weren't for the world and the US holding back Israel, they would have wiped Gaza off the map years ago.  I fear they are going to come close to turning Gaza into an even bigger pile of  rubble in the coming weeks and months than it already is.  There will aim for so much blood shed that Gaza won't think of doing anything like this ever again.

 

And the saddest part is the Muslims on the sidelines doing nothing but cheering for the Palestinians to fight back and get slaughtered.  

If you have taken out the time to scroll through the thread, you'll see how it has been explained before too that appealing to the 'civilian' card is hollow rhetoric. There are no 'civilians' here, these are active agents of occupation who have blood on their hands, who have accompanied their military in demolitions, occupations, roadside lynchings, sexual crimes against women and underage girls, desecrations of holy sites, and acts of criminal intimidation by shouting genocidal slogans in rallies and marches through native neighborhoods a la Nazis. They are not innocent lambs. If they thought that they could party after building their palaces on corpses, their misconception is now dispelled. 

Also, while we are at it, you'd do well to note when someone is explaining an act and when  he's justifying it. 

I dare you and your camp to find a single post through the length and breadth if this thread where any of us have said that what happened is right and morally justifiable. 

And if you think that turning Gaza into that vast pile of rubble and that vast stretch of wasteland to make way for settler colonies was not in the offing all along, you are mightily wrong. Excuse or no excuse, they'd have taken over Gaza sooner or later. It is literally in the very scheme of things of the 'Greater Israel' project.

I don't know of the Muslims who are cheering that military suicide that you talk of, but I certainly can see 'Muslims' booing Palestinians for an act of excess committed out of the pressure of routine humiliation,dispossession, violence and desperation piling up for decades. The Muslims who are 'cheering' them are not bystanders who've gathered to watch a show, but people who have helped them morally, monetarily and militarily at great personal cost. Those who transgressed the bounds of God's law will answer for their deeds and excesses, as will those who are booing at a desperate and besieged people when they have a knife pressed against their throat. 

And indeed Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the Knower of everything, including what our intentions are. 

Edited by AbdusSibtayn
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6 hours ago, notme said:

There is a difference between an explanation and an excuse.  We can explain (and sympathize with) the act of desperation by Hamas without excusing it. People in ugly situations sometimes only have ugly choices.  

Thank you a thousand times for saying so succinctly and in so few words what I've been struggling to say in so many. Wish many more people thought like you. 

@mods can we pin this post please? 

Edited by AbdusSibtayn
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