The preference of Ziyarah over Umrah and Hajj among Shiites

[In Gods Name]

There appears to be a strong preference by... Shias to place Ziyarah over Hajj and Umrah. You hear of cases of Shias who go to Ziyarah once a year, or have been half a dozen times. When you come to ask them whether they have been to Hajj, or Umrah, //the answer is often a no..

While Hajj and Umrah do present a more hostile atmosphere...

one can perform Taqqiyah. Instead of Turbah one can use clear sheets/paper that is permissible. This has more reward in the teachings of the Ahlulbayt in this context. It is not a valid excuse - there are many Shias performing Hajj and Umrah yearly. ....//To shy away because someone might take you to the side if they see you out and out be open about your Shi'ism rather than intelligently perform Taqqiyah is not a valid reason. Many ..//brave Ziyarah even at times of suicide bombings //- so fear is no excuse not to go to Hajj or Umrah. ...The money people have racked up going to Ziyarah often ammounts to many Hajj.

The typical Sunni will save up for Umrah and Hajj... and will have done fare more of both. The typical Shia will have done far more Ziyarah. ..

But i did some digging and it appears from our Mimbar, it is... no surprise the lay people hold this belief. It is part of the wider problem moving us away from an Allah centric religion into an Imam centric one.

____>>>>>>><<<<<____

You find contradictions in Kamil Ziyarah about what the reward is. But they all demean the reward and supreme rank of Hajj and Umrah with claims that one Ziyarah equals a million Hajj. Of course the lay person would not really regard much for the Hajj and place more preference over Ziyarah.

Translation of Kamil Ziyarah: https://thaqalayn.net/chapter/24/2/70

Claim one hadith one:  It is equal to one Umrah ---> SOURCE:https://thaqalayn.net/chapter/24/2/63

Claim two hadith two: It is equal to one Umrah and one Hajj --->  https://thaqalayn.net/chapter/24/2/65

Claim three hadith three: It is equal to various numbers from twenty to fifty:--> https://thaqalayn.net/chapter/24/2/66

Claim four: Now the fabricators are not playing games - it is now one million Umrah, one million hajj, freeing one million slaves and also giving one million horses:--> https://thaqalayn.net/chapter/24/2/70

 

----->Imams respond to these claims<-------

A lot of the people who fabricated these sorts of traditions were residing on Kufa. The Imams were residing in Medina. This allowed a pocket geographically for the extremists such as the Ghulat to fabricate. Ayatullah Asif Mushsini in his Mutabar min Bihar al Anwar presents an authentic hadith from a Kufan hearing these wild claims.

 

Imam Sadiq is asked what he felt about the claims that Ziyarah for Imam Hussain is equal to a Hajj and Umrah. "We have heard that one of you have said that the reward of visiting Imam Hussain is equal to one Hajj and Umrah". The Imam replied in shock "How difficult this hadith is? No way does the Ziyarah of Imam Hussain reach one Hajj and one Ziyarah".

 

[In Gods Name]

Who were the narrators of this hadith?

https://thaqalayn.net/chapter/24/2/70

10. Muĥammad ibn ‘Abdil Mu`min narrated to me from Muĥammad ibn Yaĥyā, from Muĥammad ibn Ĥasan Al-Šaffār, from Aĥmad ibn Muĥammad Al-Kūfi, from Muĥammad ibn Ja’far ibn Ismā’ǐl Al-‘Abdi, from Muĥammad ibn ‘Abdillāh ibn Mihrān, from Muĥammad ibn Sinān, from Yūnus ibn Żabyān, who said: Abū ‘Abdillāh (Imam Šādiq ) said: Allāh will register (the reward of performing) one million Hajj with the Qā`im  and one million ‘Umrah with the Messenger of Allāh ﷺ, freeing one million slaves, and offering one million horses in the way of Allah, for one who goes to the Ziyārah of the grave of Ĥusain  on the Day of ‘Arafah. Allāh will refer to him as, “My Truthful Slave who believed in My Promise.” And the angels will add the title “Truthful” to his name and will say, “Allāh has purified him from the top of His Throne.” Imam  added, “He will be referred to as “KARŪB” on earth.”

 

Muĥammad ibn Sinān,

from Yūnus ibn Żabyān,

 

<<<------->>>

From here: https://thaqalayn.net/book/17

 

and 

 

[Cool]

12 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

There appears to be a strong preference by... Shias to place Ziyarah over Hajj and Umrah.

I am wondering with which face would you go to the بيت الله ! 

While there is a verse in Quran which says:

قل لا أسألكم عليه أجرا إلا المودة في القربى

The "qurba" who were denied their rights, who were beheaded and poisoned by the Ummah. 

When you accept the "risalah", why hesitate in giving the "ajr e risalah" which is expressing your love & respect for the family of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) (who were poisoned & beheaded) by paying a visit to them before going for the hajj or umrah! 

You should note that our qiblah is our Imam, our salah is our Imam, our sowm is our Imam. 

[In Gods Name]

3 minutes ago, Cool said:

I am wondering with which face would you go to the بيت الله ! 

While there is a verse in Quran which says:

قل لا أسألكم عليه أجرا إلا المودة في القربى

The "qurba" who were denied their rights, who were beheaded and poisoned by the Ummah. 

When you accept the "risalah", why hesitate in giving the "ajr e risalah" which is expressing your love & respect for the family of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) (who were poisoned & beheaded) by paying a visit to them before going for the hajj or umrah! 

You should note that our qiblah is our Imam, our salah is our Imam, our sowm is our Imam. 

This has nothing, respectfully, to do with anything i have written. You can't factually address what i've written. It is an appeal to emotion.

There is no doubt the high station Muhammed and ale Muhammed hold. They are dearer to us than our own mother and fathers. However, some Shias have forgotten that they are the means to the path of Allah, not the ends.

The focus is not the Imams. It is Allah.

Our qiblah, our Salah, our fasting is purely for Allah, to turn to Allah, and to be closer to Allah.

Allah, Allah. Allah.

The ghulat exploited this love for the Ahlulbayt to shift people away from what the Ahlulbayt really came here to do, which is turn out focus to Allah, and instead made up fanciful exagerrated hadith.

 

[In Gods Name]

9 minutes ago, Cool said:

I am wondering with which face would you go to the بيت الله ! 

While there is a verse in Quran which says:

قل لا أسألكم عليه أجرا إلا المودة في القربى

The "qurba" who were denied their rights, who were beheaded and poisoned by the Ummah. 

When you accept the "risalah", why hesitate in giving the "ajr e risalah" which is expressing your love & respect for the family of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) (who were poisoned & beheaded) by paying a visit to them before going for the hajj or umrah! 

You should note that our qiblah is our Imam, our salah is our Imam, our sowm is our Imam. 

Not to judge, but culture wise where are you from?

[Cool]

3 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

where are you from?

I am from Pakistan.

[Cool]

21 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

However, some Shias have forgotten that they are the means to the path of Allah, not the ends.

The focus is not the Imams. It is Allah.

Lets see the divine commands:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَكُونُوا مَعَ الصَّادِقِينَ {119}

[Shakir 9:119] O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and be with the true ones.

فَمَنْ يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىَ لاَ انفِصَامَ لَهَا

2:256) whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks

إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ {55}

[Shakir 5:55] Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.
 

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guides us towards His Noor

يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَنْ يَشَاءُ

The parable of His Noor is also mentioned in this blessed verse. 

Imams guides us to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for they are the misdaq of:

عُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىَ لاَ انفِصَامَ لَهَا

And they are the wajhullah!! 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Cool
Typo

[In Gods Name]

48 minutes ago, Cool said:

Lets see the divine commands:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَكُونُوا مَعَ الصَّادِقِينَ {119}

[Shakir 9:119] O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and be with the true ones.

فَمَنْ يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىَ لاَ انفِصَامَ لَهَا

2:256) whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks

إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ {55}

[Shakir 5:55] Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.
 

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guides us towards His Noor

يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَنْ يَشَاءُ

The parable of His Noor is also mentioned in this blessed verse. 

Imams guides us to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for they are the misdaq of:

عُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىَ لاَ انفِصَامَ لَهَا

And they are the wajhullah!! 

I am struggling to see how this relates at all to the topic, sorry brother forgive me

[realizm]

Any shia would love to make haj. But it's expensive. 

And yes we also have ziyarat, so it is expected that some may want to take some spiritual trips to lift their iman, yet do not have the 8,000$ or such.

There is / was all the paperwork issue, now even more complex with the online platform (it seems). 

So they go for ziyara waiting for their time to come. 

Sunnis are different, they do not recognize anything except umra and haj, to which they add ziyara of prophet. So they do not have other reason to travel. 

[In Gods Name]

3 hours ago, realizm said:

Any shia would love to make haj. But it's expensive. 

And yes we also have ziyarat, so it is expected that some may want to take some spiritual trips to lift their iman, yet do not have the 8,000$ or such.

There is / was all the paperwork issue, now even more complex with the online platform (it seems). 

So they go for ziyara waiting for their time to come. 

Sunnis are different, they do not recognize anything except umra and haj, to which they add ziyara of prophet. So they do not have other reason to travel. 

The Prophet and Imams prioritised Umrah and Hajj.

Umrah and Hajj are the only Quranic spritual pilgrimages. 

Sunnis tend to save up for Hajj, and go to Umrah if they really want to visit before.

Shias tend to not save up for Hajj, and go on many Ziyarah. They often don't even go on Umrah.  

[Hameedeh]

3 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Shias tend to not save up for Hajj, and go on many Ziyarah. They often don't even go on Umrah.  

You are making stereotypical statements about millions of Shias. Most Shias don't have enough money to go to Hajj, Umrah or even one Ziyarat. 

[Cool]

4 hours ago, realizm said:

Any shia would love to make haj. But it's expensive.

Salam!

Another point is that it takes a whole month. Some of the caravans even take some 40 days time span for hajj package. 

So you have to have 30-40 holidays for hajj. For Ziyarah, there is no such issue. 

[Cool]

8 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

The focus is not the Imams. It is Allah.

Our qiblah, our Salah, our fasting is purely for Allah, to turn to Allah, and to be closer to Allah.

I highlighted the "focus". So God is saying "be with the truthful ones". God is saying "be with the patients". God is saying "I guide towards My light whosoever I pleases with" (Prophet & Imams are the divine light). 

All of the verses quoted by me just to show you the "focus". 

Shaitan's focus was always towards Allah. He worshipped God for allegedly 600,000 years and in the end becomes "rajeem" by not submitting to the divine command i.e., to prostrate before Adam (عليه السلام)

ان كنتم تحبون الله فاثبعوني يحببكم الله

Our focus do not distract from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) when we follow & holdfasts to our Imams for they are the strong hand-hold (urwatul wuthqa, hablillah). 

Understand brother!

[In Gods Name]

8 hours ago, Cool said:

Salam!

Another point is that it takes a whole month. Some of the caravans even take some 40 days time span for hajj package. 

So you have to have 30-40 holidays for hajj. For Ziyarah, there is no such issue. 

Walaykum salam:

This is an extreme stance brother. The 30-40 day packages are rare, and the vast majority of Hajj packages are about 14 days, including Madina visits. Some are 21 days. Remember, holiday/time off for many does not include weekends - so this in real terms would be 15 days off for a 3 week package, or 10 days off for a 2 week. 

It would be impossible for anyone in the UK to even do the 30-40 day package, whether Shia or Sunni, that is an absolutely ridiculous amount of time to be expecting people to take out. 

<<<<<<>>>>

This also does not justify how Shias go on 5, 6, 7 Ziyarahs, and you ask them - have you been on a single Umrah, and their reply is no.

They go to Ziyarah year after year, when they could attend Umrah. They don't, because of the Hadiths i cited and the fact that modern day Shia Islam from the Mimbarghar has gone from a God centric one, to an Imam centric one. 

[In Gods Name]

4 hours ago, Cool said:

-

Again, you've been on five Ziyarah trips over the last few decades. May Allah increase in you barakah and accept the good of what you have done.

It is no surprise you have not been on a single Umrah, forget the Hajj. 

This pattern is typical for many Shias. 

 

[In Gods Name]

8 hours ago, Cool said:

I highlighted the "focus". So God is saying "be with the truthful ones". God is saying "be with the patients". God is saying "I guide towards My light whosoever I pleases with" (Prophet & Imams are the divine light). 

All of the verses quoted by me just to show you the "focus". 

Shaitan's focus was always towards Allah. He worshipped God for allegedly 600,000 years and in the end becomes "rajeem" by not submitting to the divine command i.e., to prostrate before Adam (عليه السلام)

ان كنتم تحبون الله فاثبعوني يحببكم الله

Our focus do not distract from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) when we follow & holdfasts to our Imams for they are the strong hand-hold (urwatul wuthqa, hablillah). 

Understand brother!

The Prophet and the Imams were here to turn out focus towards Allah, not to themselves. Of course, in loving, honouring, and following the path of the Prophet and Imams, we get closer to Allah.

But what some people have done is go beyond this, their entire religion becomes about the Imam.

You don't hear the mention of the Prophet

They go on Ziyarah for decades and not a single Umrah or Hajj

They make Dua to the Imams, and do not directly ask Allah for their needs

There is barely any mention of Allah and his attributes - it is all Imam focused.

They have barely memorised any of the Quran, but will memorise many verses of the muharram poetry 

-->

In this video Rajabali describes this behaviour as almost cult like:

[In Gods Name]

5 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

You are making stereotypical statements about millions of Shias. Most Shias don't have enough money to go to Hajj, Umrah or even one Ziyarat. 

If anyone , shia or sunni can not afford to go to Hajj, Umrah, or Ziyarah, they are not the ones i refer to in my post.

The people i am explicitly referring to are those who have been to many Ziyarah , but not a single Umrah or Hajj.

[In Gods Name]

9 hours ago, realizm said:

Any shia would love to make haj. But it's expensive. 

And yes we also have ziyarat, so it is expected that some may want to take some spiritual trips to lift their iman, yet do not have the 8,000$ or such.

There is / was all the paperwork issue, now even more complex with the online platform (it seems). 

So they go for ziyara waiting for their time to come. 

Sunnis are different, they do not recognize anything except umra and haj, to which they add ziyara of prophet. So they do not have other reason to travel. 

Let us put Hajj to oneside.

There are Shia who go to many Ziyarah, but have not attended a single Umrah. No cost excuse here.

<<>>>

Now as far as Hajj goes, if you get those Shias who regularly spend 2-3k USD per year or every few years on Ziyarah, when will they ever afford Hajj? If someone has attended 5-6 Ziyarah they could have funded one Hajj and several Umrahs. 

Sunnis tend to put their money in a pot and save up for Hajj. They might do one Umrah in the meantime.

Shias tend to not save up for Hajj, priorotising ziyarah, or mode modern day innovations like arbaeen.

[In Gods Name]

When you have known fabricators claiming one Ziyarah equals a million hajj, a million umrah, freeing a million slaves, and on our pulpits hardly hear discussion about Hajj or Umrah, what Shia will even want to go to Hajj?

[In Gods Name]

If we can get back on topic...

Is one Ziyarah equal to an Umrah

Is it equal to an umrah and hajj

is it equal to 20 hajj?

is it equal to 70 hajj?

is it equal to one mllion umrah, hajj?

 

Which one is it? The Some people might claim the Ghulat wanting to do to the Imams what the Christians did to Jesus, threw pilgrimage to the house of God to the side...

they then over inflated the merits of Ziyarah to ridiculous amounts...

with many fabricators came the inconsistent and contradictory claims 

[Cool]

1 hour ago, In Gods Name said:

The 30-40 day packages are rare,

Its the standard time period my dear. 

1 hour ago, In Gods Name said:

It would be impossible for anyone in the UK to even do the 30-40 day package, whether Shia or Sunni, that is an absolutely ridiculous amount of time to be expecting people to take out. 

https://www.britishhajtravel.com/package/hajj-packages/delux-hajj-package/

It appears that you have either no knowledge whatsoever of hajj or either you know every ritual and ownes hotels in Makkah & Madinah, have your own jet etc. lol

1 hour ago, In Gods Name said:

It is no surprise you have not been on a single Umrah, forget the Hajj.

So are you obligating 5 hajj & Umrah?

How many of hajj are obligatory? Is their any age limit when to perform hajj? How if You be have funds for hajj and suddenly you brother or mother or father tells you their need and ask you money. Will you refuse to help them and spend that money in performing the hajj? Would you avoid marrying your daughter and prefer to go for hajj if you have a potential candidate who is asking for an early marriage? Would you leave your old parents (who are not giving you permission to leave them) at home, and go for hajj? Would you leave your sick wife or kid at home and still prefer to go for hajj even you know they may need you? 

People have their problems, when Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has not forced them to perform hajj (as soon as they save the amount required for hajj), who are you to criticize people for not performing the hajj? 

[Cool]

1 hour ago, In Gods Name said:

The Prophet and the Imams were here to turn out focus towards Allah, not to themselves.

And where Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is turning our focus? 

What "follow me" (فاتبعوني) means? What does the divine command "be with the truthful ones" (كونوا مع الصادقين) means? What is the tafseer of Ayah e Noor? Who are the misdaaq of نور الله? 

What is that نور اللهwhich people want to extinguish by their mouths?

يُرِيدُونَ لِيُطْفِئُوا نُورَ اللَّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ

If whole focus is Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), why there is obligatory obedience of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Ulil Amr? And if we are obeying the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Ulil Amr, are we not focusing the Almighty Lord? 

[In Gods Name]

24 minutes ago, Cool said:

Its the standard time period my dear. 

https://www.britishhajtravel.com/package/hajj-packages/delux-hajj-package/

It appears that you have either no knowledge whatsoever of hajj or either you know every ritual and ownes hotels in Makkah & Madinah, have your own jet etc. lol

There is not a shadow of doubt that the standard norm for Hajj packages start at 14 days, 18 days, 21 days, with some extending to 26 days.

To claim that you need 30-40 days to perform Hajj as the normal standard is not true, and it is a ridiculous claim. Be mindful that, despite your strong preference for Ziyarah over umrah (which in many cases is the same price as Ziyarah, but let us focus on Hajj) you turn people away from Hajj. 

Nobody in the west would get away with having to perform a Hajj over 30-40 days.

The minimum days in the Hajj packages unanimously start at 14 days.

If your focus is Allah and not a deluxe tour and deluxe hotels, you can visit Medina and complete the Hajj in Makah within the 14 days.

For the average worker, this means taking out 10 days off work - Monday to Friday, and Monday to Friday, weekends are days off.

<<<<>>>>>

Hajj Package one offering 14 days minimum: https://www.hajtours.net

Hajj package two offering 14 days minimum https://www.hajis.co.uk/hajj-package/14-days-hajj-package-2024/

Here's a 14 day one for Pakistanis:

 

So this erroneous claim that to perform Hajj you need 30-40 days is completely nonsensical. Working professionals all over the world have to perform it, and there is no way a hajj lasting that long would be feasible for the vast majority of Muslims. Yet, the two week Hajj remains one of the most popular and economical options.  You only need to take ten days off work.

If you go and select a deluxe option with unnecessary extras and tours, then that's on you.

[In Gods Name]

33 minutes ago, Cool said:

So are you obligating 5 hajj & Umrah?

 

I'm not obligating anything.

I am just noticing a typical trend among my fellow Shia.

They have gone on half a dozen Ziyarah, like you have too, and many of them have not done on a single Umrah, put aside saving money or having serious intentions to perform Hajj.

These are the ones who put more focus (not you but others) on memorising Latmiyyah and they barely put any focus on memorising Quran.

[Cool]

5 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

There is not a shadow of doubt that the standard norm for Hajj packages start at 14 days, 18 days, 21 days, with some extending to 26 days.

So finally you reached to 26 days lol. By the way, hajj itself is a 6-7 days worship if you try to perform it like turbo taraweeh. 

Now count the time of spiritual preparation, you will reach to 30 days or even more. If you select not to use the bus from haram to mina (5 km approx) or to arafaat (20km approx), time will further increase. 

[In Gods Name]

2 minutes ago, Cool said:

So finally you reached to 26 days lol. By the way, hajj itself is a 6-7 days worship if you try to perform it like turbo taraweeh. 

Now count the time of spiritual preparation, you will reach to 30 days or even more. If you select not to use the bus from haram to mina (5 km approx) or to arafaat (20km approx), time will further increase. 

The standard Hajj package is 14 days. This is widely offered everywhere and will take 10 days off work if you do Mon-Fri.

You can increase this to 21 days if you want.

But there is absolutely no need to be taking 30, or 40 days off. Just because such packages exist does not make them the recommended one.

It is essential to perform what is Wajib first. 

Allah will not excuse someone who delayed it for the reason they wanted to do optional extras which were excessive.

Even the Prophet himself during his farewell hajj took less than two weeks. So i don't know how anyone can now come and decide to add to the Wajib Hajj and claim it is superior.

[Cool]

1 hour ago, In Gods Name said:

Be mindful that, despite your strong preference for Ziyarah over umrah (which in many cases is the same price as Ziyarah, but let us focus on Hajj) you turn people away from Hajj. 

lol, same price!!!! 

Are you really that ignorant?

$800 & $3000 are equal for you? 

Despite of your poor mindset, it is indeed strange how you try to compel people to accept your narrative and accuse them for what they never even said or did. That's a shame indeed! 

Your problem actually is with the ziyarah, I am about to doubt on your claim that you are a shia. You have no idea whatsoever what the hajj is!

[Cool]

2 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

The standard Hajj package is 14 days.

You can even do the hajj in 7 days. Like some intelligent muslims complete reciting the whole Quran in 5-6 days in their tubo taraweeh in ramadhan 

So a Muslim going to Saudi Arab for the first time on hajj, will not go to the different places like Mount Uhad, Cave of Hira, the streets where Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) used to walk, the places of bani hashim etc. 

[In Gods Name]

2 minutes ago, Cool said:

lol, same price!!!! 

Are you really that ignorant?

$800 & $3000 are equal for you? 

The cost of Umrah vs Ziyarah is not 800 vs 3000 dollars.

Here is a Shia combined Umrah and Ziyarah package - note how the Umrah is only a few hundred dollars more.

 

[Cool]

Just now, In Gods Name said:

Here is a Shia combined Umrah and Ziyarah package - note how the Umrah is only a few hundred dollars more.

Please let us know the cost of hajj only and compare it with any ziyarat package. Why running away from showing heavy cost of hajj lol.

[In Gods Name]

Just now, Cool said:

You can even do the hajj in 7 days. Like some intelligent muslims complete reciting the whole Quran in 5-6 days in their tubo taraweeh in ramadhan 

So a Muslim going to Saudi Arab for the first time on hajj, will not go to the different places like Mount Uhad, Cave of Hira, the streets where Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) used to walk, the places of bani hashim etc. 

Nobody is asking anyone to perform "Turbo" Hajj.

The Messenger of Allah would perform Hajj in under 2 weeks. Did the Messenger of Allah perform "Turbo Hajj"?

The standard Hajj packages are 2-3 weeks, and for the two week one, there is plenty of time to perform the Hajj in a spiritual and satisfactory way, in the time time period as the Prophet himself performed it.

If you decide to go for the deluxe tours, and the optional extras, that is not a valid excuse for not performing Hajj, and making Hajj seem so difficult to people, and making outlandish claims they need 30-40 days brother. 

[In Gods Name]

1 hour ago, Cool said:

Please let us know the cost of hajj only and compare it with any ziyarat package. Why running away from showing heavy cost of hajj lol.

There's no doubt that Hajj is significantly more expensive than Ziyarat.

However, if a Shia has been on Ziyarah 5, 6, 7 times, and has not even completed one Umrah, when the prices are similar, there's no excuse for that.

If a Shia decides to go to half a dozen or dozen trips to Iraq, Iran, and then complains about not having been able to save up for Hajj, what's the excuse for that?

Ziyarah in my view, should be undertaken after someone has performed Umrah, and saved up for Hajj and completed this. Other religious pilgrimages are not as important as Umrah and Hajj. 

Unless we throw Allah out of the equation, throw the Messenger of Allah out, and follow a very extreme road.

[Cool]

Just now, In Gods Name said:

The Messenger of Allah would perform Hajj in under 2 weeks.

And you want to complete the hajj in one week. Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was not required to visit the places which we now need to pay visits. 

You are debating for the sake of debate. So I am out of it, I am sorry!

[Cool]

Just now, In Gods Name said:

However, if a Shia has been on Ziyarah 5, 6, 7 times, and has not even completed one Umrah, when the prices are similar, there's no excuse for that.

What is the obligation here? Is it not a personal choice or is it a sin to go to karbala & not Ka'ba?

[In Gods Name]

16 hours ago, Cool said:

You should note that our qiblah is our Imam, our salah is our Imam, our sowm is our Imam. 

Our Qiblah is to Allah 

Our salah is to Allah 

Our Sowm is to Allah 

when in danger we call out to Allah

Compared to what is a modern day distortion of Islam, where people are making Dua to other than Allah, and saying things like this.

Is it a surprise then, when having this mindset turns us away from a God centric religion, and instead of making the Imams a means to get to Allah , they become the ends. You rarely hear mention of Allah, rarely hear Quran memorised or recited. Rarely see efforts for Hajj or Umrah.