Imam Mahdi is black?

[Eddie Mecca]

@Cool, Ahl ul Bayt and Blackness...Imam Dawud Walid...(15 min)

 

[Cool]

Another hadith of eyewitness;

 في كتاب إكمال الدين وإتمام النعمة بسنده إلى محمّد بن عثمان العمري رضي الله عنه يقول: سمعت أبي يقول: سئل أبو محمّد الحسن بن عليّ عليهما السلام وأنا عنده عن الخبر الذي روي عن آبائه عليهم السلام: (إنّ الأرض لا تخلو من حجّة لله على خلقه إلى يوم القيامة، وإن من مات ولم يعرف إمام زمانه مات ميتة جاهلية)، فقال عليه السلام: (إنّ هذا حق كما أن النهار حق يعني كان الوقت نهاراً، فقال كما أن النهار هذا موجود فهو كذلك فقيل له: يا ابن رسول الله، فمن الحجة والإمام بعدك؟ فقال: ابني محمّد هو الإمام والحجة بعدي، من مات ولم يعرفه مات ميتة جاهلية. أما إنّ له غيبة يحار فيها الجاهلون، ويهلك فيها المبطلون، ويكذب فيها الوقّاتون، ثم يخرج، فكأني أنظر إلى الأعلام البيض تخفق فوق رأسه بنجف الكوفة).

So we have many narrations mentioning the ابيض complexion rather than the اسود

[Ashvazdanghe]

Salam common points between  Imams’ mothers (peace be upon them) in Shiite thought is  chastity ,Purity ,and Piety which all mothers of infallible Imams have been described by these attributes .

Quote

a simplified extrapolation of the infallible Imams’ mothers (peace be upon them) in Shiite thought in a chronological sequence: Fatima bint Asad (Imam Ali’s mother), Fatima Al-Zahra (Imams Al-Hassan and Al-Husseins’ mother), Shahzanan (Imam Al-Sajjad’s mother) in the early Islamic period, Fatima bint Al-Hassan ( Imam Al-Baqir’s mother), Nabateh (Imam Al-Kadhum’s mother) and Fatima bint Al-Qasim (Imam Al-Sadiq’s mother) in the Umayyad period, and Al-Khyzuran (Imam Al-Ridha’s mother, Sabika al-Nubiya (Imam Al-Jawad’s mother, Jumana (Imam Ali Al-Hadi’s mother, Sawsan (Imam Al-Hasan Al-Askari’s mother and Narjis (Imam Al-Mehdi’s mother) in the Abbasid period.

https://www.iasj.net/iasj/article/276041

[Ashvazdanghe]

Racial ‘Othering’ In Shi‘i Sacred History: Jawn Ibn Huwayy The ‘African Slave’, And The Ethnicities Of The Twelve Imams

Amina Inloes

The Islamic College, London, UK
Originally Published in Journal of Shi‘a Islamic Studies,
Autumn 2014, Vol. VII, No. 4

Abstract

This paper explores how Shi‘i sacred history and hagiography communicate social norms about race. It problematizes the characterization of Jawn ibn Huwayy in the Karbala narrative as the African slave at the Battle of Karbala (680 AD/61 AH), and traces the evolution of a racialized portrayal of him in Shi‘i texts. It also raises the question of whether Jawn ibn Huwayy actually existed, or whether he was a racialized construction built upon the stereotype of an African slave who entered communal memory later.

It contrasts the ‘othering’ of Jawn through his Africanness against the common perception of an Arabo-Iranian norm, reinforced through drawings of the twelve Imams with Arab or Iranian features. This norm is then challenged through presenting the Imams in an ethnic image which reflects their racial backgrounds (as reported in Shi‘i narrations) to create cognitive dissonance and explore subconscious assumptions about race and divine authority in contemporary Shi‘ism.

Keywords: Shi‘ism; Karbala; Jawn ibn Huwayy; racism; sacred history; hagiography; sacred art.

https://www.al-islam.org/racial-othering-shii-sacred-history-jawn-ibn-huwayy-and-ethnicities-twelve-imams-amina-inloes/racial

[Cool]

15 minutes ago, Eddie Mecca said:

@Cool, Ahl ul Bayt and Blackness...Imam Dawud Walid...(15 min)

 

So we have the reports mentioning brownish or wheatish complexion. The problem is in the descriptions, the difference which may have between سمراء أو سوداء (brown or black). 

[Diaz]

1 hour ago, Cool said:

I think a better way is to see whether Yusuf (عليه السلام) was black or he had a fair complexion. 

Beauty resides in every race! A black person could be more attractive than the white or wheatish person. 

So what will be the color of Imam's skin, is a question whose answer we can only find in ahadith. There is no personal liking disliking of any race or color whatsoever. We are just focusing on what the ahadith says. 

 

1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam important matter about mother of Imams is about their chastity ,Purity ,and Piety which all mothers of infallible Imams have been described by these attributes which having whether black or white or other color skin in not important at all .

Salam, I was not mentioning about the color skin of imam mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف), what I meant is when I read what brother cool said, I felt like he was trying to say black people are not attractive because if Imam mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) is black then he can't be attractive like prophet yusuf (عليه السلام), but I think now I understood what he was trying to say, my bad. 

[In Gods Name]

6 hours ago, realizm said:

 

Not sure why you added the 'bondswoman' word, but it seems you wanted to emphasize his mother being a slave, implying she was an 'African'. 

We do find dark skinned Arabs in today's Arabia. Maybe this already was the case back then. 

I am not being an aryan here, and I would not discard an Imam for a skin colour, but mothers of A'imma are not clearly identified.

I would not go woke on the matter, excuse my words. 

I'm far from woke here mind, but to claim a word that is used extensively to refer to black africans could somehow mean a dark skinned arab is playing on some serious linguistic gymnastics.

I also had not added bondswoman - this is from the hadith / many other traditions confirming she was a black slave woman. Many of the Imams were born from slave women.

[In Gods Name]

5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Note :This is from rare AHadiths category 

46- مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ عَنْ زَكَرِيَّا الْمُؤْمِنِ عَنِ ابْنِ مُسْكَانَ عَنْ بَعْضِ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللهِ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) قَالَ إِنَّ رَجُلا أَتَى بِامْرَأَتِهِ إِلَى عُمَرَ فَقَالَ إِنَّ امْرَأَتِي هَذِهِ سَوْدَاءُ وَأَنَا أَسْوَدُ وَإِنَّهَا وَلَدَتْ غُلاماً أَبْيَضَ فَقَالَ لِمَنْ بِحَضْرَتِهِ مَا تَرَوْنَ فَقَالُوا نَرَى أَنْ تَرْجُمَهَا فَإِنَّهَا سَوْدَاءُ وَزَوْجُهَا أَسْوَدُ وَوَلَدُهَا أَبْيَضُ قَالَ فَجَاءَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) وَقَدْ وُجِّهَ بِهَا لِتُرْجَمَ فَقَالَ مَا حَالُكُمَا فَحَدَّثَاهُ فَقَالَ لِلأسْوَدِ أَتَتَّهِمُ امْرَأَتَكَ فَقَالَ لا قَالَ فَأَتَيْتَهَا وَهِيَ طَامِثٌ قَالَ قَدْ قَالَتْ لِي فِي لَيْلَةٍ مِنَ اللَّيَالِي إِنِّي طَامِثٌ فَظَنَنْتُ أَنَّهَا تَتَّقِي الْبَرْدَ فَوَقَعْتُ عَلَيْهَا فَقَالَ لِلْمَرْأَةِ هَلْ أَتَاكِ وَأَنْتِ طَامِثٌ قَالَتْ نَعَمْ سَلْهُ قَدْ حَرَّجْتُ عَلَيْهِ وَأَبَيْتُ قَالَ فَانْطَلِقَا فَإِنَّهُ ابْنُكُمَا وَإِنَّمَا غَلَبَ الدَّمُ النُّطْفَةَ فَابْيَضَّ وَلَوْ قَدْ تَحَرَّكَ اسْوَدَّ فَلَمَّا أَيْفَعَ اسْوَدَّ.

46. Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Husayn from al-Hassan ibn Ali from Zakariya al-Mu’min’ from ibn Muskan from certain persons of our people who have said the following: “Abu ‘Abd Allah ((عليه السلام).), has said that once a man with his wife came to ‘Umar and said, ‘My wife, this one, is black and I am more black. She has given birth to a white boy.’ ‘Umar asked those who were present with him about their opinion. They said, ‘We say that you must stone her to death because she is black and her husband is blacker and her child is white.’ He (the Imam) said that ’Amir al-Mu’minin came when she was sentenced to be stoned to death. He (the Imam) asked, ‘What is the case of the two of you?’ They informed him (the Imam) of their story.’ He asked the black man, ‘Do you accuse your wife?’ He replied, ‘No, I do not do so.’ He (the Imam) then asked, ‘Did you go to bed with her during her Hayd (menses)?’ He said, ‘One night she did say that she was experiencing Hayd (menses) but I thought she was avoiding cold weather, then I went to bed with her.’ He (the Imam) then asked the woman, ‘Did he go to bed with you when you were experiencing Hayd (menses)?’ She replied, ‘Yes, he did. You can ask him. I tried to avoid and refused.’ He (the Imam) said, ‘You both can go. Only blood has overwhelmed the seed and it turned white. Had it (blood) moved, he would become black but on becoming an adolescent he will become black.’” 

- https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/5/3/190/46

https://thaqalayn.net/chapter/5/3/190

https://lib.eshia.ir/71808/1/1372

Let me try to understand what you are using as evidence

A woman and man who were black gave birth to a white child (presuming this is a way to get around Imam Mahdi being mixed. race).

Imam Ali says this is because she went to bed during her period and her period blood overwhelmed the seed and it turned white?

This is completely against science and any kind of rational sense. 

[In Gods Name]

4 hours ago, Cool said:

So we have the reports mentioning brownish or wheatish complexion. The problem is in the descriptions, the difference which may have between سمراء أو سوداء (brown or black). 

The sunni reports are of no use to us.

The shia reports, the most authentic one was have and presented on this thread is that his mother was a black bondswoman. 

[Cool]

10 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

The shia reports, the most authentic one

There is no concept of "the most authentic one" in grading of ahadith. 

And as I already pointed you out that your shared hadith is mentioning this:

On 10/3/2023 at 2:16 AM, In Gods Name said:

Imam Baqir: “Verily, the master of this affair (Imam Mahdi) in him is resemblance of Yusuf he is the son of a black bondswoman

While your whole focus is on black bondswoman, I am viewing how he resemble as mentioned above.

That alone refutes your claim that "Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام) is black" unless you prove:

a) Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) was black

b) Son of black woman will always be black. 

 

[Cool]

14 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

The sunni reports are of no use to us.

Talking about Sunni reports? Have you ever seen the reports we have in our books? 

The link below will show you some of them, all authentic reports.

https://the12imams.net/files/4011#_ftnref3

And in the following link, you will find the sahih reports of those eye witnesses who saw the Imam of our time in his childhood:

https://mohammed.imhussain.com/history/706#:~:text=شهد برؤية الإمام المهدي في,سوف نقتصر على ما ذكره

[In Gods Name]

4 hours ago, Cool said:

 

b) Son of black woman will always be black. 

 

Forgive me, but this is basic science and genetics. If a black woman and mixed race arab man had a child, that child would be mixed race, and part black, white , arab and such.

[In Gods Name]

13 minutes ago, Cool said:

Talking about Sunni reports? Have you ever seen the reports we have in our books? 

The link below will show you some of them, all authentic reports.

https://the12imams.net/files/4011#_ftnref3

And in the following link, you will find the sahih reports of those eye witnesses who saw the Imam of our time in his childhood:

https://mohammed.imhussain.com/history/706#:~:text=شهد برؤية الإمام المهدي في,سوف نقتصر على ما ذكره

To engage in discussion you need to

- Quote every hadith you deem is relevant directly

-Translate it

 

and then provide who is authenticating it.

 

[Muslim2010]

6 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

"Resembling" the Messenger could mean displaying prophetic attributes like neatness/tidiness/cleanliness, possessing a holy countenance or righteous disposition, his style of walking, eating, drinking, his manner of speaking etc. etc.

Thanks for clarification about the word resemblance. But I have also quoted the hadith that includes the word appearance as well. 

The word appearance means physical features and complexion etc. Thats what I clarify in addition to the resemblance.

The other two hadith in this post also details the appearance of Imam Al Mahdi (عليه السلام)

wasalam

Edited October 4 by Muslim2010

[Eddie Mecca]

I find all the "his race doesn't matter and Islam is colorblind but here's why he never ever ever (under no circumstances) be black" comments hilarious 

Edited October 4 by Eddie Mecca

[Muslim2010]

32 minutes ago, Eddie Mecca said:

I find all the "his race doesn't matter and Islam is colorblind but here's why he never ever ever (under no circumstances) be black" comments hilarious 

The logical assessment as well as text of hadith provide us the answer as mentioned in many posts of this thread for this thought. (for Not being black)

 

Edited October 4 by Muslim2010

[Cool]

3 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

To engage in discussion you need to

- Quote every hadith you deem is relevant directly

-Translate it

Please learn something if you don't know. We all are here for learning! 

I don't know Arabic much when I joined Shiachat back in 2016 but Alhamdolillah, I have learned something a bit and I am keep going on in learning things. 

So do some hardwork, take the help of google translate or anyother software but read the Arabic text so that you start getting familiar with the Arabic words. 

[Cool]

@Eddie Mecca brother we can only speculate about his color. And our that ظن is of no value in front of the ahadith we have with us. 

So irrespective of color, our master is Imam al-Mehdi (May Almighty Lord hasten his appearance) and he is the divine light (نور الله) we are waiting for! 

Wassalam!

[In Gods Name]

25 minutes ago, Cool said:

Please learn something if you don't know. We all are here for learning! 

I don't know Arabic much when I joined Shiachat back in 2016 but Alhamdolillah, I have learned something a bit and I am keep going on in learning things. 

So do some hardwork, take the help of google translate or anyother software but read the Arabic text so that you start getting familiar with the Arabic words. 

I am deep into learning Arabic.

This isn't about the Arabic only. You keep coming into discussions and posting links to big books or long articles.

If you're going to discuss, you need to do the basics my dear, and quote the exact tradition. Translate it. Then explain how it proves your point.

The way i do.

I admire how you learned Arabic by the way. Love it actually. 

[In Gods Name]

1 hour ago, Eddie Mecca said:

I find all the "his race doesn't matter and Islam is colorblind but here's why he never ever ever (under no circumstances) be black" comments hilarious 

We have an explicit hadith saying his mum was a black bondswoman.

We have many claiming she was a servant/slave woman.

Plus, Imam Askari was imprisoned, we don't have great evidence about who he married which is why a lot of people doubted he had kids. So it only makes sense he married a bondswoman.

 

I don't care what race he is, but it appears to be shocking a lot of people that The Mahdi will be half black. Like the Christians imagining some blonde hair blue eyed Jesus. 

[In Gods Name]

1 hour ago, Eddie Mecca said:

I find all the "his race doesn't matter and Islam is colorblind but here's why he never ever ever (under no circumstances) be black" comments hilarious 

We're getting people posting hadith about how two black parents can have a white kid. People who post things like does a black mum have to give birth to a black child. Posting weak hadith from our books or just linking to entire textbooks and not citing the relevant part.

 

[Cool]

1 hour ago, In Gods Name said:

We have an explicit hadith saying his mum was a black bondswoman.

That hadith says other thing as well which has been highlighted by me. Now come to other ahadith (authentic ones):

إكمال الدين: أبي وابن الوليد وابن المتوكل جميعا، عن سعد والحميري ومحمد العطار جميعا، عن ابن عيسى وابن هاشم والبرقي وابن أبي الخطاب جميعا، عن ابن محبوب، عن داود بن الحصين، عن أبي بصير، عن الصادق، عن آبائه عليهم السلام قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله: المهدي من ولدي اسمه اسمي وكنيته كنيتي أشبه الناس بي خلقا وخلقا تكونه له غيبة وحيرة حتى يضل الخلق عن أديانهم فعند ذلك يقبل كالشهاب الثاقب فيملاها عدلا وقسطا كما ملئت ظلما وجورا.

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1482_بحار-الأنوار-ج-٥١/الصفحة_0?pageno=72

Note the highlighted words:

أشبه الناس بي خلقا وخلقا (he resembles me in appearance & character)

In the same page, you will find another report:

إكمال الدين: ابن مسرور، عن ابن عامر، عن عمه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن أبي جميلة، عن جابر الجعفي، عن جابر الأنصاري قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله: المهدي من ولدي اسمه اسمي وكنيته كنيتي أشبه الناس بي خلقا وخلقا تكون له غيبة و حيرة تضل فيه الأمم، ثم يقبل كالشهاب الثاقب ويملأها عدلا وقسطا كما ملئت ظلما وجورا

(Jaber bin Abdullah Ansari narrated that the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has said: Mahid (عليه السلام) is one of my children. His name is my name, his Kunyah is my kunyah. He is the most similar person to me........)

So now you have more bigger problem! The hadith you shared have Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام), the above two ahadith have Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) himself. None of these two Prophets عليهم الصلاة والسلام were black skinned. 

Wassalam!

[realizm]

7 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

I'm far from woke here mind, but to claim a word that is used extensively to refer to black africans could somehow mean a dark skinned arab is playing on some serious linguistic gymnastics.

I also had not added bondswoman - this is from the hadith / many other traditions confirming she was a black slave woman. Many of the Imams were born from slave women.

I showed you how there are Arab communities in the Hijaz today that are so dark in complexion that you could use the term black to describe them. 

They are free men until contrary is proven. 

Now I sense that by using the term bondswoman, you make it understood that it refers to an african person. 

I was just trying to understand how  أمة سوداء had turned into 'a black bondswoman', except by implying that at the time, all black people in Arabia were slaves. Which seems not that correct since some Arab tribes are actually black or at least as dark as Obama since you quoted him. 

 

[kadhim]

9 minutes ago, realizm said:

I showed you how there are Arab communities in the Hijaz today that are so dark in complexion that you could use the term black to describe them. 

They are free men until contrary is proven. 

Now I sense that by using the term bondswoman, you make it understood that it refers to an african person. 

I was just trying to understand how  أمة سوداء had turned into 'a black bondswoman', except by implying that at the time, all black people in Arabia were slaves. Which seems not that correct since some Arab tribes are actually black or at least as dark as Obama since you quoted him. 

 

There’s no such assumption involved like you’re insinuating here. There are texts explicitly saying that a number of the mothers of the later imams (3 or 4 if I recall correctly) were from southern Africa. 

[realizm]

8 minutes ago, kadhim said:

There’s no such assumption involved like you’re insinuating here. There are texts explicitly saying that a number of the mothers of the later imams (3 or 4 if I recall correctly) were from southern Africa. 

Putting extra words in a sentence where it is not originally, whether in ahadith or Quran, will always raise the doubt. 

Suppose that back in the days the term سوداء  was used for someone with black hair,  أمة سوداء  would have meant 'a black haired mother', not 'a black slave mother'. 

 

And even, even with that being said, how would you describe in two words the mother of the late sheikh Al Amri, other than أمة سوداء  ? 

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Muhammad_Ali_al-Amri

He is from Bani Khazraj, who come from Yemen. 

Ever heard of Yemen ? The land praised by our Prophet (sawas) .  What complexion are Yemenis ? Are they not somehow as dark skinned as Barak or Michelle Obama ?

 

[kadhim]

13 minutes ago, realizm said:

Putting extra words in a sentence where it is not originally, whether in ahadith or Quran, will always raise the doubt. 

Suppose that back in the days the term سوداء  was used for someone with black hair,  أمة سوداء  would have meant 'a black haired mother', not 'a black slave mother'. 

 

And even, even with that being said, how would you describe in two words the mother of the late sheikh Al Amri, other than أمة سوداء  ? 

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Muhammad_Ali_al-Amri

He is from Bani Khazraj, who come from Yemen. 

Ever heard of Yemen ? The land praised by our Prophet (sawas) .  What complexion are Yemenis ? Are they not somehow as dark skinned as Barak or Michelle Obama ?

 

Again, this seems like a bit of a sidetrack, since the characterization of these mothers of imams is not based on vague adjectives, but on descriptions of their place of origin. 

[Muslim2010]

6 hours ago, Cool said:

So now you have more bigger problem! The hadith you shared have Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام), the above two ahadith have Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) himself. None of these two Prophets عليهم الصلاة والسلام were black skinned. 

Your words are precious in the light of hadith presented in this thread. 

The claim "Imam Mahdi is black" clearly require two authentic hadith from shia sources for justification of such claim showing:

1- The prophet Muhmad s.aw is black skinned 

2- The prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) is black skinned.

And in the absence of these two authentic hadith there are only conjectures presented in his thread by those who support / accept this claim.

BTW for me the title of the thread looks "Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام) is BACK" instead of "Black. " 

Edited October 5 by Muslim2010

[Hameedeh]

The title was changed from the declarative (Imam Mahdi is black) to the interrogative (Imam Mahdi is black?). 

[AbdusSibtayn]

Two trick questions:

1. If the Sahib al-Asr (aj) is supposed to be a replica of Yusuf (عليه السلام) while simultaneously bearing resemblance to Rasoolallah(S), will that imply that Yusuf (عليه السلام) and Rasoolallah (S) were xerox copies of each other? With exactly the same looks and coloration? Or does the word 'appearance' imply something more than meets the eye? 

Let me put it formulaically-

Mahdi's appearance= Yusuf's appearance

Mahdi's appearance also= Muhammad's appearance

Therefore Muhammad's appearance = Mahdi's appearance = Yusuf's appearance = same? 

Did/do all these great men look the same? 

2. The word أمۃ here is to be spelt with a fatha and not a damma over the alif, and hence the translation 'black bondswoman', and not 'black mother'. If the black skin color was so normal and mainstream in the 7th century Hijaz as to be indistinguishable, why was Ammar (رضي الله عنه) mocked by the title of 'ibn sawdah' (son of the black woman) by the same 'black' Qurayshi elite? His mother, Sumaiyyah (رضي الله عنه) is known to be a black slave woman, and Ammar (رضي الله عنه) also had a dark complexion and curly hair (like the African people). The word here is especially being used here to refer to women of a specific ethnicity and skin tone, and attempts to force alternative interpretations is just hollow polemic. 

[Cool]

11 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Let me put it formulaically-

Mahdi's appearance= Yusuf's appearance

Mahdi's appearance also= Muhammad's appearance

Therefore Muhammad's appearance = Mahdi's appearance = Yusuf's appearance = same? 

Salam Brother! 

Can we merge both the ahadith to deduct something or to refute something? 

I guess no. We need to look at the text of each hadith separately. The ahadith from Bihar has two key words:

Khulq (خُلق): which indicates the character and it required the baseerah (insight) to view the character.

Khalq (خَلق): Which indicates physical appearance, form and it required the basarat (sight) to view the physical appearance. 

So the phrase of hadith:

أشبه الناس بي خلقا وخلقا 

is quite clear in its meaning. Here the tashbeeh of both the physical appearance as well as character is mentioned. 

If you just look at the hadith shared in OP, you will find this:

On 10/2/2023 at 4:16 PM, In Gods Name said:

إن صاحب هذا الأمر فيه شبه من يوسف

The tashbeeh here is not descriptive. It could be referring to physical beauty of Prophet Yusuf or it could be referring to his chastity as both the cases are mentioned for him in Quran. It can also referring to both as well i.e., physical beauty & chastity. But the clarity we get from the report of Bihar is perfect & descriptive in nature as Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) described the whole matter in a sentence. 

Wassalam!

[In Gods Name]

14 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

The title was changed from the declarative (Imam Mahdi is black) to the interrogative (Imam Mahdi is black?). 

The thread is making a claim declarative - that Imam Mahdi is black or mixed race. It isn't asking a question. The first post presents an authentic narration to this effect.

But you are well respected and an asset to this forum, so as far as i am concerned, i am happy with whatever you edit whenever, wherever. 

[Hameedeh]

35 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

But you are well respected and an asset to this forum, so as far as i am concerned, i am happy with whatever you edit whenever, wherever. 

Thank you. The ? was added to the title because many people would read the title and think it was a fact, without reading all the replies. 

[In Gods Name]

On 10/3/2023 at 6:15 PM, Cool said:

Now I am quoting the Arabic text along with the reference;

غيبة الشيخ الطوسي: ابن موسى، عن الأسدي، عن البرمكي، عن إسماعيل بن مالك عن محمد بن سنان، عن أبي الجارود، عن أبي جعفر، عن أبيه، عن جده عليه السلام قال:
قال أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام على المنبر: يخرج رجل من ولدي في آخر الزمان أبيض مشرب حمرة مبدح البطن، عريض الفخذين، عظيم مشاش المنكبين، بظهره شامتان:
شامة على لون جلده، وشامة على شبه شامة النبي صلى الله عليه وآله

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1482_بحار-الأنوار-العلامة-المجلسي-ج-٥١/الصفحة_37

Here the word ابيض (white or fair) is used for Imam Mehdi ajtf by Amirul Mo'mineen (عليه السلام).

عن محمد بن سنان

 

[Cool]

9 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

عن محمد بن سنان

 

Lesson for you:

Rijal is not the only tool with us for accepting or rejecting any hadith. 

Furthermore, I have already focused the thread on three main ahadith, one of them is shared by you in OP. 

[realizm]

15 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

2. The word أمۃ here is to be spelt with a fatha and not a damma over the alif, and hence the translation 'black bondswoman', and not 'black mother'.

Care to elaborate ? 

آمة means slave ? 

Genuine question, thanks.