Imam Mahdi is black?

[In Gods Name]

How blessed we are as Shia, that our Imams broke barriers of race and married mixed race or black women.  It matters not whether we are khoja, or nigerian. Some fathers would not allow their daughters to marry a certain race, and would be furious at someone claiming the Imam of the time was mixed race, or half black. It doesn't matter what race the holy Imam is. We are one Ummah, we are all equal.

 

أخبرنا أحمد بن محمد بن سعيد ابن عقدة قال حدثنا محمد بن المفضل بن قيس بن رمانة الأشعري و سعدان بن إسحاق بن سعيد و أحمد بن الحسين بن عبد الملك و محمد بن الحسن القطواني قالوا جميعا حدثنا الحسن بن محبوب الزراد عن هشام بن سالم عن يزيد الكناسي قال سمعت أبا جعفر محمد بن علي الباقر ع يقول إن صاحب هذا الأمر فيه شبه من يوسف ابن أمة سوداء يصلح الله عز و جل له أمره في ليلة واحدة

From Imam Baqir: “Verily, the master of this affair (Imam Mahdi) in him is resemblance of Yusuf he is the son of a black bondswoman , and Allah will reform his affair in one night” 

Kitab al Ghaybah , Numani

[In Gods Name]

The word used is  أمة سوداء

Some people are outraged. They would not let their daughters or sons marry a woman of a particular race, so the Imam being of a particular race is hard to digest.  So you find them trying to claim she was a light skinned or light tanned north african arab, like a morrocan or algerian.

But the word used here does not claim this. 

[Eddie Mecca]

4 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

“Verily, the master of this affair (Imam Mahdi) in him is resemblance of Yusuf he is the son of a black bondswoman

If I had to take an educated guess I would say he'll probably look something like an Ethiopian or Eritrean or Somali or Sudanese...a substantial chuck of the Ummah will reject him for this reason (i.e. his complexion)…colorism (anti-black sentiment in particular) is a huge problem with our people...about 20 years ago I read Usul al Kafi from cover-to-cover and took extensive notes...I remember reading how the early Shi'a initially rejected Imam Mūsá al-Kāẓim (peace be upon him) due to his skin color...many were expecting Ismāʿīl (may Allah be pleased with him) to be the natural successor due to his 'noble' lineage..."Perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not." 2:216..."They planned (or in this case anticipated or expected or assumed etc.), but Allah also planned. And Allah is the best of planners." 8:30...needless to say, people are idiots 

4 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Allah will reform his affair in one night” 

What does this mean exactly?

[Cool]

10 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

قال سمعت أبا جعفر محمد بن علي الباقر ع يقول إن صاحب هذا الأمر فيه شبه من يوسف

I think the above is clearly mentioning his facial complexion. Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) was famous for his beauty so much that the women cut their fingers when they saw him. 

So the claim that Imam al-Mehdi (ajtf) will have black color has no solid ground. There are many ahadith in Sunni & Shi'i books which clearly mentions how he looks:

"Abu Jafar, Imam Muhammad Baqir ((عليه السلام).) through his forefathers has narrated from the chief of Ahlul Bayt ((عليه السلام).), His Eminence, Amirul Momineen ((عليه السلام).) that His Eminence proclaimed from the pulpit, “In the last age a man from my progeny would rise, having a fair complexion that has some redness (hue)....."

"The author of (es'aaf-ur-raghebeen) too has narrated the same tradition of the holy prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.) from abu na'eem.

In the afore-mentioned book, ibn-hajar narrates (on page 98) from ruyani and tabarani and they two from the holy prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.) as saying: 'mahdi is from my progeny. his face is like a twinkling star; his colour 'arabi' and his figure like the figure of isra'eel. (speaking allusively of his wheatish complexion, tall height and stoutness)"

Having said that, I personally have no problem with whatever color he would have, the important thing for me is the appearance of guide himself and the guidance which he will provide. 

Edited October 3 by Cool

[In Gods Name]

1 hour ago, Cool said:

I think the above is clearly mentioning his facial complexion. Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) was famous for his beauty so much that the women cut their fingers when they saw him. 

So the claim that Imam al-Mehdi (ajtf) will have black color has no solid ground. There are many ahadith in Sunni & Shi'i books which clearly mentions how he looks:

"Abu Jafar, Imam Muhammad Baqir ((عليه السلام).) through his forefathers has narrated from the chief of Ahlul Bayt ((عليه السلام).), His Eminence, Amirul Momineen ((عليه السلام).) that His Eminence proclaimed from the pulpit, “In the last age a man from my progeny would rise, having a fair complexion that has some redness (hue)....."

"The author of (es'aaf-ur-raghebeen) too has narrated the same tradition of the holy prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.) from abu na'eem.

In the afore-mentioned book, ibn-hajar narrates (on page 98) from ruyani and tabarani and they two from the holy prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).a.) as saying: 'mahdi is from my progeny. his face is like a twinkling star; his colour 'arabi' and his figure like the figure of isra'eel. (speaking allusively of his wheatish complexion, tall height and stoutness)"

Having said that, I personally have no problem with whatever color he would have, the important thing for me is the appearance of guide himself and the guidance which he will provide. 

Find me the grading of those traditions? 

The tradition i have brought is authentic. The mother of Imam Mahdi is a black woman. She isn't north African - but black. I really struggle to see how the son of a black bondswoman is going to be pale, fair skinned etc. 

You're also citing Sunni Hadith here, Tabarani etc has no real authority for us. 

[In Gods Name]

6 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

If I had to take an educated guess I would say he'll probably look something like an Ethiopian or Eritrean or Somali or Sudanese...a substantial chuck of the Ummah will reject him for this reason (i.e. his complexion)…colorism (anti-black sentiment in particular) is a huge problem with our people...about 20 years ago I read Usul al Kafi from cover-to-cover and took extensive notes...I remember reading how the early Shi'a initially rejected Imam Mūsá al-Kāẓim (peace be upon him) due to his skin color...many were expecting Ismāʿīl (may Allah be pleased with him) to be the natural successor due to his 'noble' lineage..."Perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not." 2:216..."They planned (or in this case anticipated or expected or assumed etc.), but Allah also planned. And Allah is the best of planners." 8:30...needless to say, people are idiots 

What does this mean exactly?

I'm not too sure what it means , maybe Allah will make things all ready for him? Let's ask a scholar.

But you know, a lot of people are expecting an iranian looking Imam Mahdi, or they're relying on Sunni ahadih where he has rosy red cheeks. 

The reliable Shia hadith on the matter clearly support a black man.

[Cool]

5 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

The tradition i have brought is authentic. The mother of Imam Mahdi is a black woman.

Brother! The topic of this thread "Imam Mehdi is black". The allegedly authentic tradition you shared states this:

17 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

From Imam Baqir: “Verily, the master of this affair (Imam Mahdi) in him is resemblance of Yusuf

Even if we consider this hadith only, it doesn't support the claim that Imam Mehdi will be black. Because Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) wasn't black either.  

[In Gods Name]

1 minute ago, Cool said:

Brother! The topic of this thread "Imam Mehdi is black". The allegedly authentic tradition you shared states this:

Even if we consider this hadith only, it doesn't support the claim that Imam Mehdi will be black. Because Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) wasn't black either.  

The Hadith literally claims Imam Mahdi was the son of a black bondswoman. You can resemble someone without being of their race. 

http://www.revivingalislam.com/2011/07/mother-of-imam-mahdi.html

I did some more research about the origins of the mother of our Imaam (عليه السلام), and I came across this SaHeeH (Authentic) hadeeth. According to this hadeeth, our 12^th Imaam’s mother was a black bondswoman (female slave). After mentioning this narration, I will discuss one of the narrators (Yazeed Aboo Khaalid al-Kunaasee).

 

 

أخبرنا أحمد بن محمد بن سعيد ابن عقدة قال حدثنا محمد بن المفضل بن قيس بن رمانة الأشعري و سعدان بن إسحاق بن سعيد و أحمد بن الحسين بن عبد الملك و محمد بن الحسن القطواني قالوا جميعا حدثنا الحسن بن محبوب الزراد عن هشام بن سالم عن يزيد الكناسي قال سمعت أبا جعفر محمد بن علي الباقر ع يقول إن صاحب هذا الأمر فيه شبه من يوسف ابن أمة سوداء يصلح الله عز و جل له أمره في ليلة واحدة

 

From Yazeed al-Kunaasee said, I heard Abaa Ja`far Muhammad bin `Alee al-Baaqir (عليه السلام), he said: “Verily, the master of this affair (i.e. al-Qaa’im) in him is resemblance of Yoosuf (عليه السلام), he is the son of a black bondswoman (female slave), and Allaah (عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ) will reform his affair in one night”

Source:

1.     Al-Nu`maani, Kitaab al-Ghaybah, ch. 13, pg. 228, hadeeth # 8

2.     Al-Nu`maani, Kitaab al-Ghaybah, pg. 163, hadeeth # 3

[In Gods Name]

3 minutes ago, Cool said:

Even if we consider this hadith only

You've put Sunni hadith over Shia hadith , and have not brought any authentic hadith from Shia books. Historically, it also actually makes far more sense imam Mahdi was the son of a black bondswoman considering how imam Aksari was in jail for most of his adult life.

[AbdusSibtayn]

13 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

If I had to take an educated guess I would say he'll probably look something like an Ethiopian or Eritrean or Somali or Sudanese...a substantial chuck of the Ummah will reject him for this reason (i.e. his complexion)…colorism (anti-black sentiment in particular) is a huge problem with our people...about 20 years ago I read Usul al Kafi from cover-to-cover and took extensive notes...I remember reading how the early Shi'a initially rejected Imam Mūsá al-Kāẓim (peace be upon him) due to his skin color...many were expecting Ismāʿīl (may Allah be pleased with him) to be the natural successor due to his 'noble' lineage..."Perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not." 2:216..."They planned (or in this case anticipated or expected or assumed etc.), but Allah also planned. And Allah is the best of planners." 8:30...needless to say, people are idiots 

What does this mean exactly?

No topic brings out the inner racist rot within the worldwide Shi'a population than the prospect of a dark-skinned, curly-haired, African-looking Imam (aj).

Oh the horror! A 'black' Imam!!? Son of an African slave mother!!!? Not even remotely like someone from turban-headed Sayyed/Seyed/Syed (whichever way you have it) families from Iraq/Iran/Indo-Pak subcontinent!? Impossible! 

Not the first time. When Ibrahim (عليه السلام), the son of Rasoolallah (S) was born to Mariya al-Qibtiyyah (sa) (another slave woman, sheesh), some munafiqs among the 'companions' began to cast aspersions on her character by suggesting that the baby boy could not be the Prophet's because he had a dark complexion (which, in fact, was due to his blessed mother's Nubian/Egyptian Coptic descent). The verse of exoneration was then revealed to silence the slanderers.

Centuries later, groups of 'Shi'a' would cast doubts on Imam al-Jawad (عليه السلام) 's ancestry and imamate, arguing that he couldn't be Imam al-Rida (عليه السلام) 's son because- predictably- he was too 'black' and his mother was also a slave-girl of African descent. Some things never change. 

You can well understand why the heartburn when it is said that the Imam (aj) will be dark-complexioned because of his blessed mother's origin. 

A black Imam, aaaaahhhhhh!!! What an atrocity!!!!!!!!  

Edited October 3 by AbdusSibtayn

[In Gods Name]

5 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

No topic brings out the inner racist rot within the worldwide Shi'a population than the prospect of a dark-skinned, curly-haired, African-looking Imam (aj).

Oh the horror! A 'black' Imam!!? Son of an African slave mother!!!? Not even remotely like someone from turban-headed Sayyed/Seyed/Syed (whichever way you have it) families from Iraq/Iran/Indo-Pak subcontinent!? Impossible! 

Not the first time. When Ibrahim (عليه السلام), the son of Rasoolallah (S) was born to Mariya al-Qibtiyyah (sa) (another slave woman, sheesh), some munafiqs among the 'companions' began to cast aspersions on her character by suggesting that the baby boy could not be the Prophet's because he had a dark complexion (which, in fact, was due to his blessed mother's Nubian/Egyptian Coptic descent). The verse of exoneration was then revealed to silence the slanderers.

Centuries later, groups of 'Shi'a' would cast doubts on Imam al-Jawad (عليه السلام) 's ancestry and imamate, arguing that he couldn't be Imam al-Rida (عليه السلام) 's son because- predictably- he was too 'black' and his mother was also a slave-girl of African descent. Some things never change. 

You can well understand why the heartburn when it is said that the Imam (aj) will be dark-complexioned because of his blessed mother's origin. 

A black Imam, aaaaahhhhhh!!! What an atrocity!!!!!!!!  

Some Shias wouldn't let their daughters marry the Imam.

They have this idea of a fair skinned, arab , persian, or white looking man. This would rock the Shia community if more knew.

They think he is the son of a roman princess called Narjis.

[Cool]

10 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

The Hadith literally claims Imam Mahdi was the son of a black bondswoman

O Bhai! So what? Son of black bondswoman automatically means that the son is black too? 

I don't know what's the problem with you. While the hadith saying this:

10 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

أبا جعفر محمد بن علي الباقر ع يقول إن صاحب هذا الأمر فيه شبه من يوسف

I am looking at this part precisely as I quoted in my first post. Either you say Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) was black or either you say that its a thumb rule that the son of black bondswoman is black.

[In Gods Name]

1 minute ago, Cool said:

O Bhai! So what? Son of black bondswoman automatically means that the son is black too? 

I don't know what's the problem with you. While the hadith saying this:

I am looking at this part precisely as I quoted in my first post. Either you say Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) was black or either you say that its a thumb rule that the son of black bondswoman is black.

 

If his mother is black, then he is half black and will definitely appear to be mixed race and in todays culture classed as black in the way obama is.

[Cool]

1 hour ago, In Gods Name said:

You've put Sunni hadith over Shia hadith , and have not brought any authentic hadith from Shia books.

Please look at the ahadith shared by me earlier. The very first hadith I quoted was this:

8 hours ago, Cool said:

Abu Jafar, Imam Muhammad Baqir ((عليه السلام).) through his forefathers has narrated from the chief of Ahlul Bayt ((عليه السلام).), His Eminence, Amirul Momineen ((عليه السلام).) that His Eminence proclaimed from the pulpit, “In the last age a man from my progeny would rise, having a fair complexion that has some redness (hue)....."

 

[Cool]

1 minute ago, In Gods Name said:

If his mother is black, then he is half black

Thanks God you came to half black from black. 

By the way, how half-black looks like? I have no idea of how a person looks like if he is half-black.

[AbdusSibtayn]

7 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

They think he is the son of a roman princess called Narjis

One of her names actually is Narjis (sa) , but her region of origin is described as 'aqsa al-maghrib', which in today's context would mean someplace like Mauritania or the northern areas of Nigeria. 

[Cool]

@kadhim, perhaps you would like to shed some light on the newly evolved term "half-black"!

I only know one thing which can be either full or half i.e., egg. We can have boiled egg and also half-boiled egg. But what is black & half-black? 

[Cool]

16 minutes ago, Cool said:

Please look at the ahadith shared by me earlier.

Now I am quoting the Arabic text along with the reference;

غيبة الشيخ الطوسي: ابن موسى، عن الأسدي، عن البرمكي، عن إسماعيل بن مالك عن محمد بن سنان، عن أبي الجارود، عن أبي جعفر، عن أبيه، عن جده عليه السلام قال:
قال أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام على المنبر: يخرج رجل من ولدي في آخر الزمان أبيض مشرب حمرة مبدح البطن، عريض الفخذين، عظيم مشاش المنكبين، بظهره شامتان:
شامة على لون جلده، وشامة على شبه شامة النبي صلى الله عليه وآله

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1482_بحار-الأنوار-العلامة-المجلسي-ج-٥١/الصفحة_37

Here the word ابيض (white or fair) is used for Imam Mehdi ajtf by Amirul Mo'mineen (عليه السلام).

Edited October 3 by Cool

[kadhim]

9 hours ago, Cool said:

@kadhim, perhaps you would like to shed some light on the newly evolved term "half-black"!

I only know one thing which can be either full or half i.e., egg. We can have boiled egg and also half-boiled egg. But what is black & half-black? 

Why are you trying to pull me into this?

But seriously. Why are you pretending not to understand the concept of a multiracial person? It’s odd.

Anyway, I’m aligned with Eddie on this. Given the reported genealogy as a mix of Arab and sub-Saharan African heritage, something like Somalian/Ethiopian/Eritrean/Sudanese is probably the best guess for how he would look. But Allahu alim. 
 

 

Edited October 4 by kadhim

[Muslim2010]

9 hours ago, Cool said:

Now I am quoting the Arabic text along with the reference;

غيبة الشيخ الطوسي: ابن موسى، عن الأسدي، عن البرمكي، عن إسماعيل بن مالك عن محمد بن سنان، عن أبي الجارود، عن أبي جعفر، عن أبيه، عن جده عليه السلام قال:
قال أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام على المنبر: يخرج رجل من ولدي في آخر الزمان أبيض مشرب حمرة مبدح البطن، عريض الفخذين، عظيم مشاش المنكبين، بظهره شامتان:
شامة على لون جلده، وشامة على شبه شامة النبي صلى الله عليه وآله

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1482_بحار-الأنوار-العلامة-المجلسي-ج-٥١/الصفحة_37

Here the word ابيض (white or fair) is used for Imam Mehdi ajtf by Amirul Mo'mineen (عليه السلام).

Abu Salih Saibi in Al-Fitan has narrated from His Eminence, Amirul Momineen (عليه السلام) that he said: “His Eminence, Mahdi ((عليه السلام)), in appearance, character, habits and good virtues, would most resemble the Messenger of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).”[۸]

[۸] Al-Malahim wal Fitan, Chap. 79

The prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) does not have a black complexion.

According to different hadiths, the Prophet (s) has characterized Imam al-Mahdi (a) as being the most similar person to him.[70] Imam al-Hasan al-'Askari (a) also said that al-Mahdi's (a) look and moral character are the most similar to the Prophet's (s).[71] According to a hadith from Imam 'Ali (a): "when al-Mahdi (a) begins his uprising, his age will (seem to) be between thirty to forty".[72]

In the book, Mikyal al-makarim, Imam al-Mahdi (a) is characterized as being handsome, his face shining like the moon.[75]

Imam al-Baqir (a) has quoted his father and ancestor as saying that Imam 'Ali (a) once said on his minbar: "from my progeny in end of the time, a man will appear whose face is reddish white, whose chest is broad, with strong shoulders and two moles on his back, one with the color of his skin, and the other like that of the Prophet (s)".[78]

Imam Muhammad b. al-Hasan al-Mahdi (a) - wikishia

[Cool]

1 hour ago, kadhim said:

Why are you trying to pull me into this?

Because of the use of a delicate praise "spirit animal" by you on other thread! 

1 hour ago, kadhim said:

But seriously. Why are you pretending not to understand the concept of a multiracial person? It’s odd.

I think everyone can easily understand the concept of multiracial person. Problem was that does the term "half-black" somehow indicate "multiracial"? 

 

[kadhim]

18 minutes ago, Cool said:

Because of the use of a delicate praise "spirit animal" by you on other thread! 

???

19 minutes ago, Cool said:

I think everyone can easily understand the concept of multiracial person. Problem was that does the term "half-black" somehow indicate "multiracial"? 

Because math. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

A popular misconception here is regarding the translation of the word 'abyad', which has come to mean 'white' in MSA (Fusha) , but doesn't necessarily mean so in Classical Arabic (Lughat/Lisan al-Arab). Rather it lexically means something with an even tone, whether dark or fair, as clarified by brother  @Qa'im here:

 

The gene for the darker complexion is dominant, compared to the one for the fairer one which is recessive. When either parent has a dark skin, it is most likely the case that the child will be darker, as is also visible in the case of Ibrahim ibn Rasoolallah (عليه السلام) and al-Jawad (عليه السلام), dark-complexioned sons of otherwise fair fathers but dark-complexioned mothers. It is literally genetics 101.

Again, the very fact that a large number of admittedly Shi'a population tries tooth and nail to oppose this and 'whitewash' (pun intended)the Imam (aj) 's maternal side is only further proof of what the other side is contending. The more they hysterically oppose, the more they expose themselves and vindicate their opponents. 

[realizm]

 

On 10/2/2023 at 11:16 PM, In Gods Name said:

 black bondswoman

Not sure why you added the 'bondswoman' word, but it seems you wanted to emphasize his mother being a slave, implying she was an 'African'. 

We do find dark skinned Arabs in today's Arabia. Maybe this already was the case back then. 

I am not being an aryan here, and I would not discard an Imam for a skin colour, but mothers of A'imma are not clearly identified.

I would not go woke on the matter, excuse my words. 

[Eddie Mecca]

Personally, I will accept, welcome, love and (in'sha Allah) follow al-Mahdī (peace be upon him) whether he resembles Chris Hemsworth or Michael B. Jordan or anything in-between...we should keep an open mind and follow sound logic and historical evidence and not be enslaved by preconceived ideas or mindless custom...the nature of man resembles that of a beast...but man simultaneously possesses a sublime and spiritual side that must be nurtured...fearing the unknown is normal in the animal kingdom...blaming the foreigner and scapegoating the stranger are likewise normal tendencies...but racism/xenophobia/classism/sectarianism etc. are normal behaviors like the human tendency to horde and steal are considered 'normal' and 'natural' inclinations...Islam demands more...Islam came with a new social order that commands we subjugate the beast, accentuate the spirit and rise above such low propensities...custom cannot prevail over divine declaration...the military commander Marcus Junius Brutus, before the battle of Philippi, (42 B.C.) met an African outside the gates of his compound...his soldiers instantly chopped the man into pieces...they took his appearance as a bad sign/unlucky omen...to the superstitious Roman and his troops, this act was seen as something 'good'...as the color black was associated with death...people have a tendency to follow their cultural prejudices and traditional biases and prioritize these norms and sentiments above revelation and religion...this is wrong...Islam came to shatter these antiquated concepts and replace them with something higher and better...Islam came as a stranger and when it returns it will—once again—emerge as a stranger...only a handful of people will be able to recognize it...may Allah make us among those able to see/perceive with a penetrating insight and a fully developed understanding    

Edited October 4 by Eddie Mecca

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 10/3/2023 at 12:56 AM, In Gods Name said:

The word used is  أمة سوداء

Salam this world means that he is from black nation  which also can means that his blessed mother from African nation also all infallible Imams from descendant of Imam hussain(عليه السلام) have had multiracial appearance because their mothers have been from different races from Persian as mother of Imam Sajjad (عليه السلام) to north African & roman blessed mothers in opposition of racist procedure of cursed Ummayads & Abbassids which they  only have accepted their kings from descendants of so called white Arab woman which only exception between then has been Mamun the abbassid king who has taken power by killing his elder brother Amin who has been born from a Arab woman  also source of your Hadith is from book of Al-kafi by Shaykh al-Kulayni who multiple times accused him to being untrustworthy due to  accusing him to beleiving to distrtion of holy Quan  by yourself . which you by having double standards & cherry picking from Al-Kafi of Shaykh al-Kulayni  so then you have  tried to lead it to a kind of an African supremacist interpretation . 

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As the son of Hārūn ar-Rashīd, the fifth caliph, and Zubayda, a niece of al-Manṣūr, the second caliph, al-Amīn took precedence in the succession over his elder half brother, al-Maʾmūn, whose mother was a Persian slave. In 809, al-Amīn succeeded to the caliphate, and al-Maʾmūn was vested with the administration of the eastern Khorāsān region. Relations between the brothers soon broke down, and in 810 al-Amīn declared his own son as his direct heir. Open hostilities began in 811, and by 812 al-Amīn was besieged in Baghdad, the defense of which lasted more than a year. AlAmīn was captured and executed, apparently against the wishes of his brother.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/al-Amin

 

According to @Qa'im

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Even the Prophet had African origins, because the mother of Isma`il was Hagar, an Egyptian.

 

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Again, we cannot have 100% certainty on the Mahdi's mother, but most of our literature on the mothers of the later Imams mention their African origin. I see no problems with this, and no reason to doubt all of this. Shaykh al-Kulayni was not an African supremacist.

 

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It's not an "accusation" or "rubbish" to assert that they had African mothers. Your first mistake is your assumption that this is a negative thing, when it is actually quite inconsequential.

I don't know the family trees of these women, but they are discussed at length in our literature. Please read the first volume of al-Kafi, Book 4, in the section on the births of the Imams. The 7th Imam's mother was Hamida, a former slave from West Africa. The 8th Imam's mother was Najma, a Berber slave. The 9th Imam's mother was Nubian and he was darker than his predecessors. The 10th Imam's mother was a Berber named Susan.

As for the hadith on the Mahdi's black mother, you can find it below:

أخبرنا أحمد بن محمد بن سعيد ابن عقدة قال حدثنا محمد بن المفضل بن قيس بن رمانة الأشعري و سعدان بن إسحاق بن سعيد و أحمد بن الحسين بن عبد الملك و محمد بن الحسن القطواني قالوا جميعا حدثنا الحسن بن محبوب الزراد عن هشام بن سالم عن يزيد الكناسي قال سمعت أبا جعفر محمد بن علي الباقر ع يقول إن صاحب هذا الأمر فيه شبه من يوسف ابن أمة سوداء يصلح الله عز و جل له أمره في ليلة واحدة

 

Ahmad b. Muhmmad b. Sa`eed b. `Uqda said: Muhammad b. al-Fadl b. Qays b. Ramaanih al-Ash`ari and Sa`dan b. Is`haq b. Sa`eed and Ahmad b. al-Husayn b. `Abd al-Malik and Muhammad b. al-Hasan al-Qatwaani who said: al-Hasan b. Mahbub az-Zarad from Hisham b. Salim from Yazid al-Kunasi who said:

I heard Abu Ja`far Muhammad b. `Ali al-Baqir عليه السلام say: Verily, in the Patron of this Affair is a resemblance to Yusuf. He is the son of a black woman,[1] and Allah عز و جل will reform his affair in one night.[2] (Nu`mani’s Ghayba, What Has Been Narrated About His Characteristics, Biography, and Actions; and What Was Revealed Regarding Him in the Qur’an, hadith #8)

(muwathaq) (موثق)

Again, we cannot have 100% certainty on the Mahdi's mother, but most of our literature on the mothers of the later Imams mention their African origin. I see no problems with this, and no reason to doubt all of this. Shaykh al-Kulayni was not an African supremacist.

Even the Prophet had African origins, because the mother of Isma`il was Hagar, an Egyptian.

 

The idea of Roman expansion into North Africa started with the fear and jealousy caused by the great economic power of Carthage. In the 3rd Century BC, Rome and Carthage jockeyed with each other for position and strength along the Mediterranean

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The civil war between Caesar and Pompey briefly brought North Africa into the Roman spotlight once again

 

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 King Juba of Numidia was a client of Pompey and resisted the rule of Caesar. Caesar defeated Juba at the battle of Thapsus in 46 BCE, and with this victory, all of North Africa was firmly and permanently in the control of Rome. Several political and provincial reforms were implemented by Augustus and later Gaius (Caligula), but Claudius finalized the territorial divisions into official Roman provinces.

 

Within Roman occupied Africa, the bulk of the population of was composed of three major population groups: the Berber tribes (such as Numidians, Gaetulians and Maurusiani), the ancient Carthaginians of Phoenician origin and Roman colonists. The Berbers were a dark skinned native African people that spoke a common language and shared ethnic characteristics. Besides the Afri in the regions controlled by Carthage, the tribes that took part in the wars against the Romans were the Lotophagi, the Garamantes, the Maces, the Nasamones, the Misulani or Musulamii, the Massyli and the Massaesyli.

 

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The prosperity of most towns depended on agriculture. Called the "granary of the empire," North Africa, according to one estimate, produced 1 million tons of cereals each year, one-quarter of which was exported. Other crops included fruit, figs, grapes, and beans. By the second century AD, olive oil rivaled cereals as an export item.

In addition to the cultivation of slaves, and the capture and transporting of exotic wild animals, the principal production and exports include the following for each province:

https://www.unrv.com/provinces/africa.php

North Africa before the Romans

Before Roman involvement, North Africa was basically divided into the regions of Egypt, Libya, Numidia and Mauretania. Berber tribes populated Ancient Libya, while Egypt, after thousands of years of dynastic rule, was conquered by the Persians and later the Greeks, who defeated the Persians under Alexander [...], only to form the Ptolemaic dynasty — the final pharaohs of Egypt.

https://www.historyhit.com/the-marvel-of-north-africa-during-roman-times/

[Eddie Mecca]

3 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

would most resemble the Messenger of Allah

"Resembling" the Messenger could mean displaying prophetic attributes like neatness/tidiness/cleanliness, possessing a holy countenance or righteous disposition, his style of walking, eating, drinking, his manner of speaking etc. etc.

4 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

being handsome, his face shining like the moon.

1.) Allah defines handsomeness and beauty...not Bollywood or overdramatic Turkish soap operas...2.) "shiny face" most likely means spiritual or divine light that emanates from the faces of prophets and saints...this is usually depicted in iconology (i.e. religious visual symbolism) as a halo or a 'glow' around the head of the Blessed Mother or Lord Krishna etc.  

[Ashvazdanghe]

Addendum just for further information

White baby born to black parents

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A Nigerian couple just got quite a surprise: Angela Ihegboro gave birth to a white baby with blue eyes and curly blond hair, reports The Sun, a British tabloid. 

 

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" The baby, which the couple named Nmachi, is not an albino, doctors say. Ben Ihegboro says his mother has a fairer shade of skin, "but we don't know of any white ancestry. We wondered if it was a genetic twist. But even then, what is with the long curly blond hair?" It's an unusual case, but it's not unheard of. Skin and eye color are determined by melanin, and the amount or type of melanin is controlled by about a dozen different genes, as Bryan Sykes, an Oxford University professor of human genetics, told the tabloid. 

 

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 "In mixed race humans, the lighter variant of skin tone may come out in a child -- and this can sometimes be startlingly different to the skin of the parents," Sykes told The Sun. "This might be the case where there is a lot of genetic mixing, as in Afro-Caribbean populations. But in Nigeria there is little mixing.

https://www.nbcnews.com/healthmain/white-baby-born-black-parents-1c6437718

I’m Black, therefore my kids are, right?

Alicia Cox Thomson was raised to embrace both her Bajan and Polish cultures, and feels it’s crucial that her own kids embrace their blackness.

BY ALICIA COX THOMSON

https://www.todaysparent.com/family/parenting/im-black-therefore-my-kids-are-right/ 

 

“It Is Likely a White Gene”: Racial Voyeurism and Consumption of Black Mothers and “White” Babies in Online News Media

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Abstract

Focusing on media reports of black women who give birth to “white” children, this study asks: What can we learn about popular understandings of race from the fascination with births of “white” babies born to black mothers? What racial discourses guide how such stories are produced and consumed online? We conducted a critical discourse analysis of media coverage and online comments about two contemporary cases. We found that three race-based assumptions underlie and are reinforced by these narratives. We argue that these births generate racial voyeurism because they violate deeply held beliefs about racial identity and the reproduction of race.

 

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 However, we also noticed that media stories about interracial procreation tend to obfuscate racial inequality while staying true to dominant discourses about the biological origins of racial hierarchies. 

 

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Racist representations of black people remain prevalent in television and film (Campbell 2016; Feagin 2010; Littlefield 2008). Still, there is a gap in the literature regarding why racialized stories remain so popular among consumers. In particular, media consumers vociferously seek coverage of interracial, transracial, and racially mixed families online. 

 

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For instance, when reality star Kylie Jenner’s baby did not look brown enough to be fathered by black rapper Travis Scott, online news media launched articles and videos questioning the paternity of the child. Speculation centered on the baby’s light skin color and eye shape;

 

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This study examines media reports of black women who give birth to the so-called white babies—children who are racialized as white based on phenotypic features such as skin, hair, and eye color. Drawing on critical race theory’s frame of color blindness and black feminism’s intersectionality theory, we analyze how both producers and consumers of these stories rely on several core tenets of white supremacy to evaluate black women and their children

 

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We argue that media coverage of “miraculous” births of white children to black mothers generates racial voyeurism among consumers because these births contradict deeply held beliefs about racial classification, identity, and heritage

 

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The New Race Science

Critical race scholars have broken new ground by investigating how the biological understanding of race is being revived in multiple domains of public life. Roberts demonstrates the emergence of a “new race science” interested in gene-based racial differences, which relies on global DNA databases and statistical analyses to treat race as a genetic grouping. Genomic scientists use “gene frequencies among geographic populations as a more objective, scientific and politically palatable alternative to race, an approach that tends to repackage race as a genetic category rather than replace it” (Roberts 2011:202). Roberts asserts that this is a part of a larger biopolitical agenda that, by explaining race as natural, inherited, and fixed, provides a biological explanation for persistent racial inequality in a supposedly postracial society.

 

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Findings

Our analysis of the sample found that the media coverage and comments reinforce three key assumptions about the biological reproduction of race: race is a genetic inheritance, phenotypic characteristics determine race, and black people are incapable of producing whiteness.

Throughout both the articles and comments, we also found strong color-blind racist narratives demonizing the discussion of race, as well as controlling images that evoked common stereotypes of black women. The most prevalent comment was about the miraculous beauty of the children, as evidenced by their light skin, blonde hair, and blue eyes.

 

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Conclusion: Media, Racial Voyeurism, and the New Race Science

In mainstream discussions of race in the United States and the United Kingdom, the “epistemology of ignorance” is in full effect (Sullivan and Tuana 2012): despite the rise of overt white nationalism and racial hate crimes, whites still widely believe that race is a natural inheritance and racism is not a factor in determining one’s life chances (Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism 2017).

 

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Our study shows that scholars should pay greater critical attention to media stories that promote false and dangerous assumptions about the biological procreation of race—assumptions that continue to support white supremacy in a color-blind era.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0160597619832628

JOURNAL ARTICLE

Transracial Mothering and Antiracism: The Case of White Birth Mothers of "Black" Children in Britain

France Winddance Twine

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3178674

White Parents, Black Hair

https://confluence.gallatin.nyu.edu/context/interdisciplinary-seminar/white-parents-black-hair

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

Note :This is from rare AHadiths category 

46- مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْحُسَيْنِ عَنِ الْحَسَنِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ عَنْ زَكَرِيَّا الْمُؤْمِنِ عَنِ ابْنِ مُسْكَانَ عَنْ بَعْضِ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللهِ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) قَالَ إِنَّ رَجُلا أَتَى بِامْرَأَتِهِ إِلَى عُمَرَ فَقَالَ إِنَّ امْرَأَتِي هَذِهِ سَوْدَاءُ وَأَنَا أَسْوَدُ وَإِنَّهَا وَلَدَتْ غُلاماً أَبْيَضَ فَقَالَ لِمَنْ بِحَضْرَتِهِ مَا تَرَوْنَ فَقَالُوا نَرَى أَنْ تَرْجُمَهَا فَإِنَّهَا سَوْدَاءُ وَزَوْجُهَا أَسْوَدُ وَوَلَدُهَا أَبْيَضُ قَالَ فَجَاءَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) وَقَدْ وُجِّهَ بِهَا لِتُرْجَمَ فَقَالَ مَا حَالُكُمَا فَحَدَّثَاهُ فَقَالَ لِلأسْوَدِ أَتَتَّهِمُ امْرَأَتَكَ فَقَالَ لا قَالَ فَأَتَيْتَهَا وَهِيَ طَامِثٌ قَالَ قَدْ قَالَتْ لِي فِي لَيْلَةٍ مِنَ اللَّيَالِي إِنِّي طَامِثٌ فَظَنَنْتُ أَنَّهَا تَتَّقِي الْبَرْدَ فَوَقَعْتُ عَلَيْهَا فَقَالَ لِلْمَرْأَةِ هَلْ أَتَاكِ وَأَنْتِ طَامِثٌ قَالَتْ نَعَمْ سَلْهُ قَدْ حَرَّجْتُ عَلَيْهِ وَأَبَيْتُ قَالَ فَانْطَلِقَا فَإِنَّهُ ابْنُكُمَا وَإِنَّمَا غَلَبَ الدَّمُ النُّطْفَةَ فَابْيَضَّ وَلَوْ قَدْ تَحَرَّكَ اسْوَدَّ فَلَمَّا أَيْفَعَ اسْوَدَّ.

46. Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Husayn from al-Hassan ibn Ali from Zakariya al-Mu’min’ from ibn Muskan from certain persons of our people who have said the following: “Abu ‘Abd Allah ((عليه السلام).), has said that once a man with his wife came to ‘Umar and said, ‘My wife, this one, is black and I am more black. She has given birth to a white boy.’ ‘Umar asked those who were present with him about their opinion. They said, ‘We say that you must stone her to death because she is black and her husband is blacker and her child is white.’ He (the Imam) said that ’Amir al-Mu’minin came when she was sentenced to be stoned to death. He (the Imam) asked, ‘What is the case of the two of you?’ They informed him (the Imam) of their story.’ He asked the black man, ‘Do you accuse your wife?’ He replied, ‘No, I do not do so.’ He (the Imam) then asked, ‘Did you go to bed with her during her Hayd (menses)?’ He said, ‘One night she did say that she was experiencing Hayd (menses) but I thought she was avoiding cold weather, then I went to bed with her.’ He (the Imam) then asked the woman, ‘Did he go to bed with you when you were experiencing Hayd (menses)?’ She replied, ‘Yes, he did. You can ask him. I tried to avoid and refused.’ He (the Imam) said, ‘You both can go. Only blood has overwhelmed the seed and it turned white. Had it (blood) moved, he would become black but on becoming an adolescent he will become black.’” 

- https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/5/3/190/46

https://thaqalayn.net/chapter/5/3/190

https://lib.eshia.ir/71808/1/1372

[Eddie Mecca]

22 hours ago, Cool said:

So the claim that Imam al-Mehdi (ajtf) will have black color has no solid ground

You're following Yasir al Habib's line of reasoning...native 7th century Arabs of the Hijaz region were normally dark-skinned...a natural dark hue was the general rule and fair skin was an anomaly and not advantageous in a severe desert climate...7 out of 12 Imams were descended from African mothers...Imam Mūsá al-Kāẓim (peace be upon him) is described in the following manner: "VERY DARK SKINNED, great in virtues, steadfast (i.e. courageous) and very generous."...

"Apparently amongst all the Imams of Ahlul-Bayt ((عليه السلام)), Imam Jawad ((عليه السلام)) is more known for his dark skin. He is referred to in some narrations as

حَائِلَ‏ اللَّوْن

which means the one whose skin colour is different from his paternal ancestors and is much darker.

The late al-Kulayni reports a narration that some of the brothers and uncles of Imam Redha ((عليه السلام)) denied Muhammad al-Jawad to be his biological son because “there has never been amongst us an Imam whose skin colour is so different from his paternal ancestors”! They thought Imam Redha ((عليه السلام)) had fostered a slave boy! Finally, they engage an expert in physiognomy who could identify the biological traits of people by their common body language, and that expert confirms that Muhammad al-Jawad was Imam Redha’s biological son! Upon that Imam Redha ((عليه السلام)) cries and reminds his brothers and uncles of a prophecy where the holy Prophet (P) had said about Imam Jawad ((عليه السلام)): “How dear to me is the son of the most virtuous female slave[1], the son of a lady from Sudan whose breath is sweet and whose womb is divinely chosen.”

Similarly, Imam Hadi and Imam al-Askari (peace be upon them) were reportedly dark skinned."

[Ashvazdanghe]

14 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Some Shias wouldn't let their daughters marry the Imam.

They have this idea of a fair skinned, arab , persian, or white looking man. This would rock the Shia community if more knew.

They think he is the son of a roman princess called Narjis.

Salam Shias always have been interested to marry their daughters with  the infallible Imam which often they have had hidden rivalry & competition for it in hope of  that their daughters will be mothers of infallible Imams  which choosing mother of infallible Imams has been done based on divine knowledge of infallible Imams & order of Allah .

Alla Shias are aware that infallible  Imams after Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) have been multiracial which story of marriage of Imam Husaain (عليه السلام) with a persian woman as daughther of Yazdgerd the last Sassanid king is very famous story between Shias also all shias are aware that infallible Imams have been  sons of  chaste women from different tribes & races from whether Persian or Arab or black or Roman who they have been chosen by divine will to be mothers of infallivle Imams . 

بِابِي انْتَ وَامِّي يَا بْنَ رَسُولِ ٱللَّهِ

bi'abi anta wa ummi yabna rasuli allahi

May my father and mother be accepted as ransoms for you, O son of Allah’s Messenger.

 

اشْهَدُ انَّكَ كُنْتَ نُوراً فِي ٱلاصْلاَبِ ٱلشَّامِخَةِ

ashhadu annaka kunta nuran fi al-aslabi alshshamikhati

I bear witness that you were light in the sublime loins

 

وَٱلارْحَامِ ٱلْمُطَهَّرَةِ

wal-arhami almutahharati

and purified wombs;

 

لَمْ تُنَجِّسْكَ ٱلْجَاهِلِيَّةُ بِانْجَاسِهَا

lam tunajjiska aljahiliyyatu bi'anjasiha

the impurities of the Ignorance Era could not object you to filth

 

وَلَمْ تُلْبِسْكَ ٱلْمُدْلَهِمَّاتُ مِنْ ثِيَابِهَا

wa lam tulbiska almudlahimmatu min thiyabiha

nor could its murky clothes dress you.

 

https://www.duas.org/safar/arbaeen.htm

https://www.duas.org/downloads/Arabic Mafatih Kamil.docm

[Diaz]

23 hours ago, Cool said:

think the above is clearly mentioning his facial complexion. Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام) was famous for his beauty so much that the women cut their fingers when they saw him. 

So the claim that Imam al-Mehdi (ajtf) will have black color has no solid ground.

What’s that supposed to me? Black color is not beauty or attractive?

[Cool]

9 minutes ago, Eddie Mecca said:

You're following Yasir al Habib's line of reasoning...

Ahha, accusing me of following the line of reasoning someone you dislike! 

Do you know the complexion of Imam al-Askari (عليه السلام)? Yes we have ahadith why don't just see them? 

Do you know the complexion of Imam al-Jawwad (عليه السلام) or Imam al-Hadi (عليه السلام)? Yes we have ahadith in our books, why not you see them? 

I have no problem whether someone is black or wheatish or white in complexion. What I view is the “صبغة الله" whatever I see! 

 

[Cool]

5 minutes ago, Diaz said:

What’s that supposed to me? Black color is not beauty or attractive?

I think a better way is to see whether Yusuf (عليه السلام) was black or he had a fair complexion. 

Beauty resides in every race! A black person could be more attractive than the white or wheatish person. 

So what will be the color of Imam's skin, is a question whose answer we can only find in ahadith. There is no personal liking disliking of any race or color whatsoever. We are just focusing on what the ahadith says. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

7 minutes ago, Diaz said:

What’s that supposed to me? Black color is not beauty or attractive?

Salam important matter about mother of Imams is about their chastity ,Purity ,and Piety which all mothers of infallible Imams have been described by these attributes which having whether black or white or other color skin in not important at all .

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His Mother

His mother was the best of women at her time in her chastity, purity, and piety. Historians say she was from the good knowing women.[2] Imam al-Hadi (عليه السلام) praised her by saying, ‘Saleel (her name) was purified from error, defect, and impurity.’[3]

She was a bondmaid[4] from an-Nawbah.[5] It did not harm her that she was a bondmaid, for man in the view of Islam is exalted by his guidance, piety, and propriety, and he is degraded by deviation from the right path.

https://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6059:birth-and-upbringing&catid=629&Itemid=713

 

203. Najmah (Umm Ul-Banin), The Mother Of Imam Al-Ridha

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The author of Kashf al-Ghummah has written, "The mother of Imam al-Ridha ('a) was al-Khayzaran the Egyptian, a manumitted bondmaid, and she was also called al-Shaqra' al-Nubiyyah and Arwa Umm ul-Banin.4

When she brought Imam al-Ridha ('a) into the world, she was called al-Tahirah.3

Her Merits

Shaykh al-Saduq based on his documents relates a tradition about her. The overall meaning of this tradition is as follows: Hamidah al-Musaffat, the mother of Imam Musa Ibn Ja'far ('a), bought a servant. This servant was from a family of nobility of the non-Arabs; however, she was born among the Arabs, grew up with their children, and was trained along with them. Hamidah bought her and gave her to her son Imam Musa ('a) and told him, "I have never seen a servant better than her. In a short time God will manifest her offspring."5

Al-Saduq has related another tradition based on his documents from 'Ali Ibn Maytham from his father. The summary of this tradition is as follows: When Hamidah the mother of Musa Ibn Ja'far ('a) bought Najmah the mother of Imam al-Ridha ('a), who was a servant at that time she saw the Messenger of God (S) in a dream. He told her, "O Hamidah, give Najmah to your son Musa, because she will bear the best creation on earth." Hamidah gave Najmah to her son. Ali Ibn Maytham says, "I heard from my father who had heard from his mother that Najmah was single when Hamidah bought her."6

https://www.al-islam.org/shiah-women-transmitters-hadith-nahla-gharavi-naeeni/203-najmah-umm-ul-banin-mother-imam-al-ridha#:~:text=Sakan al-Nubiyyah%2C was the wife,A'lam al-Nubala'%2C vol. 9%2C p

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Imam Al-Kazim's mother - who was one of the noble Persian ladies called Hamideh, bought a female slave of the Mowalledeh3 type named Toktam. Toktam was one of the noblest ladies in regards to intelligence, religion and respect for her master and his mother Hamideh

http://www.imamreza.net/old/eng/imamreza.php?id=12772