Deputies of Imam Mahdi - Biography & Activities

[Cool]

3 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

And yet, there is not a single scholarly work of hadith, fiqh, tafsir, or theology from a Faqig during the time of mass confusion who had direct contact with the Imam. 

You seems to ignore many things my dear. 

Can you name any scholar who collected the ahadith in a book during the lives of Imams? Do you know the name of hadith book dated 150 AH or 250 AH? 

Can any Faqeeh would write the fiqh during the life time of Imams? Shias, during minor & major occultaions, start contacting the scholars (or muhaddithoon) after the command of Imam. Otherwise the scholars work as a channel who put forward the questions of shias to Imams and Imams answers the questions. 

 

[In Gods Name]

8 minutes ago, Cool said:

Can you name any scholar who collected the ahadith in a book during the lives of Imams? Do you know the name of hadith book dated 150 AH or 250 AH? 

 

Yes. Many of the companions of the Imams wrote down Ahadith in books we call the Usuls each containing  hundreds of ahadith. Al-Kafi wasn't Kulayni gathering oral tranmission. He basically gathered bigger compilations of the Usuls before him to produce an even bigger body of work.  The Imams encouraged writing down of Ahadith, so many different companions would have their own collections. 

Many also had works on rijal, tafsir, fiqh, but the problem is...many are not extant, distorted, and no longer reliable.

Now in return, have any of the four deputies of Imam Mahdi written a single work of hadith from the Imam, tafsir, a book of Fiqh, or any scholarly book? 

[Cool]

4 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

Yes. Many of the companions of the Imams wrote down Ahadith in books we call the Usuls each containing  hundreds of ahadith.

Please name any "Book" as I requested you. Don't tell me that hundreds of thousands of companions from Imam Baqir (عليه السلام) to Imam al-Askari wrote ahadith what they heard from Imam of their time. 

6 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

Now in return, have any of the four deputies of Imam Mahdi written a single work of hadith from the Imam, tafsir, a book of Fiqh, or any scholarly book?

Well, Why don't you see what duty Imam of time has assigned to his deputies? Were they assigned the task of collecting or writing hadith books? 

Out of 4 deputies, how many of them died during the minor occultation? And why Imam (عليه السلام) never appointed any deputy during major occultation? What he (عليه السلام) has achieved from these 4 deputies that the need of any deputy becomes extinct? 

 

[In Gods Name]

3 hours ago, Cool said:

Please name any "Book" as I requested you. Don't tell me that hundreds of thousands of companions from Imam Baqir (عليه السلام) to Imam al-Askari wrote ahadith what they heard from Imam of their time. 

 

 

It isn't hundreds of thousands of companions. There were well known Muhadditheen among the companions of the Imams who had giant corpuses of hadiths that they wrote as part of their collections.

Ibn Mahbub is one of them, a companion of the later Imams and a giant in this field. We aren't taking like a companion writing a few dozen hadith on parchment, but thousands of narrations within a book from men like Ibn Mahbub.

We have giants like Faadhl b.shathan a companion of Imam al Hadi who authored many works. 

Wiki shia:https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Fadl_b._Shadhan

His works are said to be over 180 books and essays, some of which are concerned with theology and jurisprudence. Some of them are mentioned in al-Najashi's al-Rijal[37] and al-Shaykh al-Tusi's al-Fihrist,[38] including:

Ithbat al-raj'a, selections of which are published in the journal, Turathuna,[39] by Basim al-Musawi.

Al-Talaq, parts of which are cited by al-Kulayni.[40]

'Ilal al-sharayi' concerning the causes of worships, mentioned by al-Najashi and al-Tusi.[41]

Al-Fara'id al-kabir[42]

Al-Fara'id al-awsat[43]

Al-Fara'id al-saghir[44]

Masa'il al-buldan mentioned by al-Najashi.[45] Part of it is cited by al-Shaykh al-Tusi in some of his works.[46]

Al-Yawm wa l-layla which is said to be endorsed by Imam al-Hasan al-'Askari (a).[47]

 

<<<>>>>

 

There are so many companions of the Imams who we know wrote books, compiled works of Hadith (this is how Al Kafi came to be - it just gathered hadith books and works of previous muhadditheen)

 

[In Gods Name]

3 hours ago, Cool said:

Can any Faqeeh would write the fiqh during the life time of Imams? Shias, during minor & major occultaions, start contacting the scholars (or muhaddithoon) after the command of Imam

The Imam was not present publicly. The people were in major confusion at the time due to the conflicting narrations and reports. More than at any time, a book of Fiqh, endorsed by the Imam himself, was highly needed. 

A book of Tafseer, with the traditions from the Imam himself, was highly needed.

A compilation of Hadith, approved by the Imam, was highly needed.

[In Gods Name]

3 hours ago, Cool said:

You seems to ignore many things my dear. 

Can you name any scholar who collected the ahadith in a book during the lives of Imams? Do you know the name of hadith book dated 150 AH or 250 AH? 

Can any Faqeeh would write the fiqh during the life time of Imams? Shias, during minor & major occultaions, start contacting the scholars (or muhaddithoon) after the command of Imam. Otherwise the scholars work as a channel who put forward the questions of shias to Imams and Imams answers the questions. 

 

And more on Ibn Mahbub:

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Hasan_b._Mahbub

Al-Mashikha

Al-Hasan's most famous work was al-Mashikha on hadith transmitters and their hadiths, regarded as one of the earliest Shi'a works on rijal and fiqh.[30] Ibn Idris al-Hilli quotes some parts of al-Mashikha in the Mustatrafat section of his al-Sara'ir.

Al-Shahid al-Thani has a collection of about one-thousand hadiths from al-Mashikha, indicating the importance and comprehensiveness of al-Hasan's work.[31]

[In Gods Name]

On 9/29/2023 at 12:13 PM, Muslim2010 said:

They were not scholars but chosen to serve the ummah as planned by Imam Mahdi as.

The details for their peculiarity are given in the following link in this thread:

Also the book Alkafi was written by Yaqub AL kulaini in the period of minor occultation.

What do you find a reason that the deputies who were kept hidden even from common people should come Infront and write book etc?

 

So this brother says they were not scholars...

 

4 hours ago, Cool said:

If you read the hadith books, you still find much contradictions there. And obviously those contradictions will produce confusion unless you reach to any scholar (marja karam of today's era) and they guide you and provide an explanation of such contradiction, for instance, there are many ahadith which are the result of taqaiyyah. 

Imagine the time of minor occultation, do you know who was the third deputy? He was a known faqeeh, he not only acted as a messenger between shias and Imam, but also provided logical arguments & answers to many of their doubts. In other words, Imamof our time (ajtf) achieved a lot through these deputies. I can even list Imam's achievements. 

 

But this brother clarifies the third deputy was a Faqeeh...

 

 

<<<>>>

Which one is it?

[Muslim2010]

3 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Which one is it?

We being shia 12ver confirm that we follow imams from the purified progeny of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and they ae never separated from the book of Allah ie quran. Both will never separate till reaching at the pool of paradise.

The text that already been presented in this thread for the words of saying of Imam Al Mahdi (عليه السلام) provides the evidence that these special deputies were not assigned that ask of writing any book during the period of minor occultation.

The following link again confirm our interpretation for those who are mindful to the truth:

 

[Muslim2010]

3 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

A compilation of Hadith, approved by the Imam, was highly needed.

I have also asked that are you more knowledgeable than the Imams from the Ahl albayat (عليه السلام) of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)?

As per plan of Imam at that time the special deputies were there to perform their duties as assigned instead of any book writing for the common public. As their reality was also kept hidden  to secure the imam presence and whereabout in the situation that had resulted already in martyring of 11 imams by the oppressive rulers. In the period of 11th Imam  (عليه السلام) it was communicated to their followers that should make contact with the scholars / narrators of hadith of Imams for guidance on religious matters in the light of hadith of iamsm. 

Al-Kāfī (Arabic: الکافي) is one of hadith collections of Twelver Shi’a. It is the most important and authentic collection among the Four Books. It was compiled by Muhammad ibn Ya’qub al-Kulayni (d. 329/941) in the period of Minor Occultation. 

The great value of al-Kafi to Shi'i Muslims is emphasized by the number of outstanding scholars of their community who have considered it worthwhile  work. Al-Kafi represents a decisive moment in the collection of traditions from the Prophet and the Imams and their systematic presentation.

The simple question arises here in do you really believe in Imam Al Mahdi (عليه السلام) as last Imam?

Edited October 1 by Muslim2010

[Cool]

7 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

We aren't taking like a companion writing a few dozen hadith on parchment, but thousands of narrations within a book from men like Ibn Mahbub.

We have giants like Faadhl b.shathan a companion of Imam al Hadi who authored many works

Brother! Where are the books? There is no book existing except the earliest hadith books we know now. 

7 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

We have giants like Faadhl b.shathan a companion of Imam al Hadi who authored many works. 

Wiki shia:https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Fadl_b._Shadhan

Now see the confusion about this companion from the link you have quoted above:

"There are two sorts of hadiths regarding his relationship with Imam al-Hasan al-'Askari (a): according to one of these, the Imam (a) reproached him,[11] and according to others, he was praised and admired by the Imam (a).[12]"

You don't read what you quote!

Now about the great companion ibn Mehbub, none of his work is existing and according to the source from where you are collecting information, this is mentioned about his work:

"Unfortunately, none of al-Hasan's works are extant today, though some of them seem to have been available until the 10th/16th century."

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Hasan_b._Mahbub

Al-Hasan ibn Mahbub (died 224/838-9). His works are al-Mashikhah and Ma`rifat ruwat al-akhbar.  Where are these books? See Kulayni existed between 250 A.H to 329 A.H, his work is still preserved and present among us but not the work of ibn Mehbub. 

7 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Some of them are mentioned in al-Najashi's al-Rijal[37] and al-Shaykh al-Tusi's al-Fihrist,

Yes, they got the akhbaar (news) of what was written by them. But why they were unable to preserve those books if they got access to them? The work of Najashi & Sheikh Tusi is still preserved. 

7 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

(this is how Al Kafi came to be - it just gathered hadith books and works of previous muhadditheen)

See how you answer some of your own questions. lol 

So Kulayni, according to you gathered and compiled the work of earlier scholars or companions. And by gathering the ahadith from different sources many contradictory reports disclosed to him about those scholars or companions. Like I mentioned the case of Al-Fadl bin Shazan. 

What else, you must have heard the name of Mo'min al-Taaq (ابوجعفر محمّد بن علي بن نعمان ابن أبي طريفة البجلي), a great companion of Imam al-Sadiq. There are rumors about him that he was the head of the Nu'maniyya or Shaytaniyya sect. Some even mentioned him as one who kept the beliefs of "Mushabbiha". 

7 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

The Imam was not present publicly. The people were in major confusion at the time due to the conflicting narrations and reports. More than at any time, a book of Fiqh, endorsed by the Imam himself, was highly needed. 

A book of Tafseer, with the traditions from the Imam himself, was highly needed.

A compilation of Hadith, approved by the Imam, was highly needed.

Yes, in fact according to Shia belief, presence of Imam of time is highly needed all the time. So when this necessity being denied and Imams after Imam were targeted and killed, what would be the way out for Imams? 

The first book of tafsir was written by Imam Ali (عليه السلام) himself. The Quran which he compiled had all the features in it, including asbaab al-nazul, tafsir, for whom which verse was revealed and where each verse was revealed etc.

7 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Shahid al-Thani has a collection of about one-thousand hadiths from al-Mashikha,

So Shaheed al-Thani (b. 911/1506 - d. 965/1557) collected 1000 hadith from the book which become extinct well before his birth and Sheikh Mufid, Kulayni, Sudooq etc. all were failed to get those ahadith. 

That looks perfectly fine to you? 

[Ashvazdanghe]

8 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

 

So this brother says they were not scholars...

 

But this brother clarifies the third deputy was a Faqeeh...

 

 

<<<>>>

Which one is it?

 

12 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Yes. Many of the companions of the Imams wrote down Ahadith in books we call the Usuls each containing  hundreds of ahadith. Al-Kafi wasn't Kulayni gathering oral tranmission. He basically gathered bigger compilations of the Usuls before him to produce an even bigger body of work.  The Imams encouraged writing down of Ahadith, so many different companions would have their own collections. 

Many also had works on rijal, tafsir, fiqh, but the problem is...many are not extant, distorted, and no longer reliable.

Now in return, have any of the four deputies of Imam Mahdi written a single work of hadith from the Imam, tafsir, a book of Fiqh, or any scholarly book?

Salam it means that they have not isolated themselves from people just for writing books & doing research because writing book likewise ", tafsir, a book of Fiqh, or any scholarly book"  has needed somehow isolating from community & not involving in current affairs of Shia community which duty of 4 special deputies has been solving problems of shia community & managing their affairs although they had to keep their identity as a secret also they have been supervising work of network of Wikalah which has been consisted from scholars likewise Kafi(رضي الله عنه) which their work has been writing  books likewise tafsir, a book of Fiqh, or any scholarly book" under supervision of 4 speciall deputies which 4 special deputies have been Fuqah in order to review & fix issues of  written books by other shia scholars likewise Kafi (رضي الله عنه) & etc . 

[Muslim2010]

The OP and other posts inside the thread definitely provide the evidence for running away of confronters from the truth.

wasalam

[In Gods Name]

[Muslim2010]

On 10/1/2023 at 6:48 AM, Muslim2010 said:

I have also asked that are you more knowledgeable than the Imams from the Ahl albayat (عليه السلام) of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)?

As per plan of Imam at that time the special deputies were there to perform their duties as assigned instead of any book writing for the common public. As their reality was also kept hidden  to secure the imam presence and whereabout in the situation that had resulted already in martyring of 11 imams by the oppressive rulers. In the period of 11th Imam  (عليه السلام) it was communicated to their followers that should make contact with the scholars / narrators of hadith of Imams for guidance on religious matters in the light of hadith of iamsm. 

Al-Kāfī (Arabic: الکافي) is one of hadith collections of Twelver Shi’a. It is the most important and authentic collection among the Four Books. It was compiled by Muhammad ibn Ya’qub al-Kulayni (d. 329/941) in the period of Minor Occultation. 

The great value of al-Kafi to Shi'i Muslims is emphasized by the number of outstanding scholars of their community who have considered it worthwhile  work. Al-Kafi represents a decisive moment in the collection of traditions from the Prophet and the Imams and their systematic presentation.

The simple question arises here in do you really believe in Imam Al Mahdi (عليه السلام) as last Imam?

@In Gods Name

Edited October 8 by Muslim2010

[Ashvazdanghe]

14 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

see my response to your baseless accusation 

 

[In Gods Name]

Just now, Ashvazdanghe said:

see my response to your baseless accusation 

 

I am not making any baseless accusations. I've cited ahadith and also the work of Moderrasi. I also don't deny or reject the Safeers, i am only making an inquiry into questions. 

I will also not respond to copying and pasting.

[Muslim2010]

5 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

I will also not respond to copying and pasting.

The hadith text is same that have been presented in these threads by yourself by copy pasting, it is not my addition. I have just mentioned relevant part to get the answer to my question. The link of the post is also mentioned.

Do you like to deny that you have not sent these hadith by copy pasting?

Edited October 8 by Muslim2010