Wish I Didn't Become Shia...

[Guest BoredPanda]

This is a very childish rant, but here I go. I come from an African, Sunni family and became Shia during the pandemic.

Since the pandemic has slowed down and everything has opened up, I've been trying to go to Shia mosques. I'm very welcome, but I feel a little distant from everything given my ethnic background.

Mosques in the West really just serve as ethnic enclaves, and so I always felt inclined to go to mosques run by Somalis or whatever related background. Suddenly I'm entering into ethnic enclaves of other groups, with no way to really ingratiate myself and feel pretty alienated. Also have been on Shia online spaces, and it's kinda wild how racist they can get to blacks. It's fine to joke around, but the intensity of these racial jokes towards people who look like me just makes me feel even more alienated. I've also been told I'm probably not gonna get married within the Shia community given that I'm black, and the Arabs and Desis marry among their own for the most part (which is fine).

I kinda wish to return back to Sunnism, return back to my people.

[Guest ImamAliMuhib]

Salam Alaikum brother,

Im very sorry to hear of your experience and that you feel left out, the Ahlul albayt are for everyone all ethnicities and races and not just one or two races. Unfortunately this is a cultural issue and not a Shia Islam issue and the Shia community has a lot to work on, they even exclude their own people which I as an Arab Shia have been through thats why i just go for to the mosques for the sake of Allah and Ahlul bayt and to get thawab as well learn from the lecture and leave and not really mingle with them. 

I dont think you should leave Shiism because of its people because im sure thats not the reason you started following it but rather because of the ahlul bayt themselves and they deserve all the hardship we face because they went through hardship to give us the righteous path. However just because you are Shia now doesn’t mean you should leave your old friends or your sunni friends. I advise you to still hang around with them because we all need friends in our life and Imam Ali says someone is either your brother in faith or brother in humanity. Its also worth speaking to the mosques Sheikh so they can lecture the people regarding this matter. Also speak up when someone says racist or hurtful comments, don’t stay quiet and advocate for yourself.

I wish you all the best

[Cool]

17 hours ago, Guest BoredPanda said:

I kinda wish to return back to Sunnism, return back to my people.

Salam Brother!

I am unable to understand why you become Shia? 

From your post it appears that you are realizing that you made a wrong decision because strangers are not welcoming you, you probably not get married within western or desi communities etc. 

If these are the reasons why you turned into Shia, then yes, it would be better for you to stay Sunni. Because a Shia knows that everyone within Arab & Desi communities is not white. A Shia (specifically man) has no problem in marrying a Sunni. 

Please remind yourself why you turned Shia. It is always difficult to make your place in strange communities. Things can get better with time, all will depend on your personality and akhlaq. These are the two things with which you can attract people towards you. I hope you will try to kill your inferiority complex. Mamy companions of Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Imams were black. You will find black in western shia communities as well as Indo-Pak communities. I don't really know after reading your OP  what is in your mind!

Wassalam!

[Ya Imam Mahdi]

Bismillahirrahmanirrahim

Selamun Aleykum, 

 

If you will allow me to offer some words of encouragement: 

 

A Shia is one who follows the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet ( S ) with and through the recognition of Imam Ali ( S ) as his  divinely appointed successor and on through the  Ahl e Beyt (S), i.e - The Twelve Imams( S ). 

Now, while everyone longs for belonging, our duty as Muslims is to Worship on the Path that leads to Salvation ( as  what is mentioned above). 

Being a former member of the Sunni Community you are in a unique position  to acquire new knowledge and comprehension which you can put to use helping to build for others of your (your new and  former Community) what you yourself see as a current challenge or lack. 

[Quran313]

Don't listen to those type of people. People are not representation of religion. Ahlulbait are representation of the religion. The person who used to do Azan during the life of the prophet was a person with african ethnicity.

Regarding marriage, don't worry. There are a lot of people who would like to marry someone with your background and ethnicity. You just need to search and look for it. Don't lose hope. I saw and see a lot of good suitors who get rejected just because they are not Arab, or Irani, or Paki, or Indian, etc.

Don't take it serious, be away from people with toxic personality, and look for your partner. Insha you'll be fine.

[kadhim]

3 hours ago, Cool said:

Salam Brother!

I am unable to understand why you become Shia? 

From your post it appears that you are realizing that you made a wrong decision because strangers are not welcoming you, you probably not get married within western or desi communities etc. 

If these are the reasons why you turned into Shia, then yes, it would be better for you to stay Sunni. Because a Shia knows that everyone within Arab & Desi communities is not white. A Shia (specifically man) has no problem in marrying a Sunni. 

Please remind yourself why you turned Shia. It is always difficult to make your place in strange communities. Things can get better with time, all will depend on your personality and akhlaq. These are the two things with which you can attract people towards you. I hope you will try to kill your inferiority complex. Mamy companions of Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Imams were black. You will find black in western shia communities as well as Indo-Pak communities. I don't really know after reading your OP  what is in your mind!

Wassalam!

Empathy is a good look, man. Maybe reflect on that a little bit. I know what you’re trying to say, but it’s said in a way that makes it worse. 

[kadhim]

19 hours ago, Guest BoredPanda said:

This is a very childish rant, but here I go. I come from an African, Sunni family and became Shia during the pandemic.

Since the pandemic has slowed down and everything has opened up, I've been trying to go to Shia mosques. I'm very welcome, but I feel a little distant from everything given my ethnic background.

Mosques in the West really just serve as ethnic enclaves, and so I always felt inclined to go to mosques run by Somalis or whatever related background. Suddenly I'm entering into ethnic enclaves of other groups, with no way to really ingratiate myself and feel pretty alienated. Also have been on Shia online spaces, and it's kinda wild how racist they can get to blacks. It's fine to joke around, but the intensity of these racial jokes towards people who look like me just makes me feel even more alienated. I've also been told I'm probably not gonna get married within the Shia community given that I'm black, and the Arabs and Desis marry among their own for the most part (which is fine).

I kinda wish to return back to Sunnism, return back to my people.

I hear you and get where you’re coming from.

The community to be very frank is a bit of a train wreck. It’s why it’s a good idea to make your religion about your relation with God rather than about people. People are … very often disappointing. 

[ireallywannaknow]

Where are you located?

There are some online groups (such as on Whatsapp) that are predominantly African American Shia men that I know of if you are interested. 

[Guest BoredPanda]

On 9/27/2023 at 3:43 PM, kadhim said:

I hear you and get where you’re coming from.

The community to be very frank is a bit of a train wreck. It’s why it’s a good idea to make your religion about your relation with God rather than about people. People are … very often disappointing. 

Yeah I get what you mean. People in general are often pretty disappointing. Including ourselves at times. Just hard to accept that, particularly when I look to get married, I'm gonna be a bind to find the right person though I'm hoping to have my first child at 30 (less than 3 years away).

I don't plan to leave Shi'ism obviously. That's why I called my rant childish. Even if I end up dying alone, I wouldn't stop being Shia.

[Abu Hadi]

On 9/26/2023 at 7:59 PM, Guest BoredPanda said:

This is a very childish rant, but here I go. I come from an African, Sunni family and became Shia during the pandemic.

Since the pandemic has slowed down and everything has opened up, I've been trying to go to Shia mosques. I'm very welcome, but I feel a little distant from everything given my ethnic background.

Mosques in the West really just serve as ethnic enclaves, and so I always felt inclined to go to mosques run by Somalis or whatever related background. Suddenly I'm entering into ethnic enclaves of other groups, with no way to really ingratiate myself and feel pretty alienated. Also have been on Shia online spaces, and it's kinda wild how racist they can get to blacks. It's fine to joke around, but the intensity of these racial jokes towards people who look like me just makes me feel even more alienated. I've also been told I'm probably not gonna get married within the Shia community given that I'm black, and the Arabs and Desis marry among their own for the most part (which is fine).

I kinda wish to return back to Sunnism, return back to my people.

Salam Brother, 

Although there is racism and prejudice in the Shia communities in the West, just like there is in every community, you shouldn't use that as an excuse not to follow the Haqq. I don't know what city you live in, but in general, the largest revert communities in the US are African American. Almost everywhere in the US, except maybe Dearborn, MI and the Bay Area in California. So being black shouldn't stop you from 'fitting in'. I know that most of the African American reverts are Sunni (there are Shia, btw, I have personally met some of them) but they are generally more tolerant on Fiqh and Aqeeda vs Immigrant African communities (from what I have seen). 

If you have accepted path of Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)), InShahAllah, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will help you. 

"And whoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty) and He will provide for him from sources he never could imagine. And whoever puts his trust in Allah, then He will suffice him. Verily, Allah will accomplish His purpose. Indeed Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has set a measure for all thing. 

Surah At Talaq 65:2-3

[In Gods Name]

On 9/27/2023 at 6:17 PM, Cool said:

Salam Brother!

I am unable to understand why you become Shia? 

From your post it appears that you are realizing that you made a wrong decision because strangers are not welcoming you, you probably not get married within western or desi communities etc. 

If these are the reasons why you turned into Shia, then yes, it would be better for you to stay Sunni. Because a Shia knows that everyone within Arab & Desi communities is not white. A Shia (specifically man) has no problem in marrying a Sunni. 

Please remind yourself why you turned Shia. It is always difficult to make your place in strange communities. Things can get better with time, all will depend on your personality and akhlaq. These are the two things with which you can attract people towards you. I hope you will try to kill your inferiority complex. Mamy companions of Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Imams were black. You will find black in western shia communities as well as Indo-Pak communities. I don't really know after reading your OP  what is in your mind!

Wassalam!

Go easy on the brother/sister.

It's not easy being African and going into Desi communities. They are notoriously cliquey. It's a big struggle.

Everyone who is a Muslim wants to belong in a community. Have a bit of empathy man.

[In Gods Name]

On 9/27/2023 at 1:59 AM, Guest BoredPanda said:

This is a very childish rant, but here I go. I come from an African, Sunni family and became Shia during the pandemic.

Since the pandemic has slowed down and everything has opened up, I've been trying to go to Shia mosques. I'm very welcome, but I feel a little distant from everything given my ethnic background.

Mosques in the West really just serve as ethnic enclaves, and so I always felt inclined to go to mosques run by Somalis or whatever related background. Suddenly I'm entering into ethnic enclaves of other groups, with no way to really ingratiate myself and feel pretty alienated. Also have been on Shia online spaces, and it's kinda wild how racist they can get to blacks. It's fine to joke around, but the intensity of these racial jokes towards people who look like me just makes me feel even more alienated. I've also been told I'm probably not gonna get married within the Shia community given that I'm black, and the Arabs and Desis marry among their own for the most part (which is fine).

I kinda wish to return back to Sunnism, return back to my people.

We're here for you man. I know it's hard and cliquey but join the shia whatsapp groups, join shiachat. Try to go on Muzz match - lots of African shias on there for halal marriage.

[In Gods Name]

6 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Salam Brother, 

Although there is racism and prejudice in the Shia communities in the West, just like there is in every community, you shouldn't use that as an excuse not to follow the Haqq. I don't know what city you live in, but in general, the largest revert communities in the US are African American. Almost everywhere in the US, except maybe Dearborn, MI and the Bay Area in California. So being black shouldn't stop you from 'fitting in'. I know that most of the African American reverts are Sunni (there are Shia, btw, I have personally met some of them) but they are generally more tolerant on Fiqh and Aqeeda vs Immigrant African communities (from what I have seen). 

If you have accepted path of Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)), InShahAllah, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will help you. 

"And whoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty) and He will provide for him from sources he never could imagine. And whoever puts his trust in Allah, then He will suffice him. Verily, Allah will accomplish His purpose. Indeed Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has set a measure for all thing. 

Surah At Talaq 65:2-3

well said

but you probably know how badly caste/cliquey the south asian and desi communities are. It's as if Islam is on the back burner and it's a desi/south asian community centre to promote cultural heritage.  The Shia ones are like secret societies. Reverts feel like strangers.

[Cool]

3 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Have a bit of empathy man.

Empathy for what? A guest posted a comment where he apparently accepting as he made a mistake:

On 9/27/2023 at 4:59 AM, Guest BoredPanda said:

I've also been told I'm probably not gonna get married within the Shia community given that I'm black, and the Arabs and Desis marry among their own for the most part (which is fine).

I kinda wish to return back to Sunnism, return back to my people.

At least mention what caused you to leave "my people". If the sole cause of leaving "my people" was that you will be warmly welcomed by strangers, and girls will start throwing their hearts on you, then go back to "your people" straight away! You have neither identified the truth nor the truthful ones. How can such a person become a shia! Who think of himself Micheal Jackson, a famous person (singer infact).

Edited September 30 by Cool

[In Gods Name]

1 hour ago, Cool said:

Empathy for what? A guest posted a comment where he apparently accepting as he made a mistake:

At least mention what caused you to leave "my people". If the sole cause of leaving "my people" was that you will be warmly welcomed by strangers, and girls will start throwing their hearts on you, then go back to "your people" straight away! You have neither identified the truth nor the truthful ones. How can such a person become a shia! Who think of himself Micheal Jackson, a famous person (singer infact).

He or she chose Shia Islam. They then went to a desi community who are notorious for being cliquey and almost cult like. He feels isolated. He or she is a human being and in a very low sad state, weakness can make someone say...i wish i had never done it. But in their hearts maybe they are happy they found truth, but it's a moment of weakness and sadness and isolation which made them utter that figure of speech.

Africans are not treated fairly in desi communities. There is a lot of racism honestly. 

You are a nice person, so i know you didn't mean to be harsh , but don't tell someone you shouldn't have become a Shia then man. Your other points were spot on, it was just this line , i felt could be worded better because i know you didn't mean it like literally as in okay, become a Sunni then 

[Cool]

8 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Africans are not treated fairly in desi communities.

This is nothing but a mere inferiority complex. Strangers are not welcomed in any society, that's a fact. And strangers always needed time to settle & mix within the communities. All depends on the personality & akhlaq of that stranger. 

8 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

They then went to a desi community who are notorious for being cliquey and almost cult like.

wow! It seems like a racist comment! 

Ever try to do the opposite. Leave any desi guy among the Africans. How they treat him? They immediately start hugging that desi guy, start offering him their daughters, start inviting him into their houses lol. 

[Abu Hadi]

6 hours ago, Cool said:

This is nothing but a mere inferiority complex. Strangers are not welcomed in any society, that's a fact. And strangers always needed time to settle & mix within the communities. All depends on the personality & akhlaq of that stranger. 

wow! It seems like a racist comment! 

Ever try to do the opposite. Leave any desi guy among the Africans. How they treat him? They immediately start hugging that desi guy, start offering him their daughters, start inviting him into their houses lol. 

I don't want to downplay the issue of racism, because it is very real. I don't think it is particular to one community. Imagine being a white guy, european ancestry, walking into a masjid in an area which is mostly african american. See what kind of warm reception you get (lol). I don't have to imagine it because it happened to me many times. There will be people that say 'Salam Alekum' then turn the conversation around to what your ancestors 'might' have done 150 years ago. There are some (some because most are not this way) brothers who will judge you based on that. None of my relatives that I am aware of ever owned a slave, and of course I never have. So i'm not sure why it is common for some to jump to that conclusion with no evidence.

Then they will jump to the 'beneficiary of white privilege' thing. Yes, there is white privilege, but that goes away when you accept Islam and practice it in your daily life. You will then be seen by the wider society as 'just another foreigner' even if you were born and raised in the US and your family has been here for many generations. White privilege mostly applies to young, physically attractive, non muslim white men and women, mostly women. 

This is what I have personally experienced. Racism is alive and well and comes in every form imaginable. 

I am not trying to downplay the racism and prejudice against Africans and African Americans. I think the difference is that this type of racism affects the actual lives of this group on a daily basis whereas the racism I am talking about above only affects if I (or another white revert) walks into a certain situation. As an ummah, we really need to come together to try and eradicate this disease of racism from, at least, our masajid and Islamic organizations. That would be a start. 

Edited October 1 by Abu Hadi

[In Gods Name]

17 hours ago, Cool said:

Empathy for what? A guest posted a comment where he apparently accepting as he made a mistake:

At least mention what caused you to leave "my people". If the sole cause of leaving "my people" was that you will be warmly welcomed by strangers, and girls will start throwing their hearts on you, then go back to "your people" straight away! You have neither identified the truth nor the truthful ones. How can such a person become a shia! Who think of himself Micheal Jackson, a famous person (singer infact).

Are you aware Imam Mahdi is the son of a black slave woman? His mother was likely a black bondswoman. Our Imams likely were significantly mixed race of African heritage. No doubt this would make a lot of racist peoples blood boil.

We need to stop having khoja centres, arab centres, desi centres, where people are notoriously treating the religion is some sort of cultural heritage centre. It's gated, Islamic laws are put to the side and it turns into pure culture, with the good , but a lot of toxic bad.

The Ummah of Muhammed and the Masjid of Muhammed was about Islam. Not an attempt to have a mini pakistan in the west, or lebanon in the west, or even africa in the west.

 

 

[In Gods Name]

Honestly, with the attitudes i am reading, i'm not surprised we've got this image.

[In Gods Name]

1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

I don't want to downplay the issue of racism, because it is very real. I don't think it is particular to one community. Imagine being a white guy, european ancestry, walking into a masjid in an area which is mostly african american. See what kind of warm reception you get (lol).

I have desi friends, who tell me even they struggle in desi centres if they are not connected. Islam is second place, it turns into a mini pakistan, mini khoja kenya centre etc. Even for our asian brothers and sisters, it can be increidbly cliquey. A desi friend of mine said his mum point blank stopped going to a centre because of how cliquey it was.

[Cool]

3 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

I don't think it is particular to one community. Imagine being a white guy, european ancestry, walking into a masjid in an area which is mostly african american. See what kind of warm reception you get (lol).

Exactly!! That is what I am pointing at in my post. 

2 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Are you aware Imam Mahdi is the son of a black slave woman?

Look brother! I have not said anything about white or black, African or American or Indo-Pak region. 

Every human being is respectable for me irrespective of his faith, color & race. And every Muslim holds a greater station for my respect as I consider them brothers in faith. 

Why you feel the need to notify me that the mother of 12th Imam belongs to which race? The whole discussion was in reference to comment made by a guest who never came back to answer what people said in response to his comment. 

Perhaps his only goal was to make a thread in which he wanted to write that Shias are racist, they never welcome strangers and nor they give their daughters to strangers therefore the only option left for him to go back to his people. 

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

16 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

We need to stop having khoja centres, arab centres, desi centres, where people are notoriously treating the religion is some sort of cultural heritage centre. It's gated, Islamic laws are put to the side and it turns into pure culture, with the good , but a lot of toxic bad.

The Ummah of Muhammed and the Masjid of Muhammed was about Islam. Not an attempt to have a mini pakistan in the west, or lebanon in the west, or even africa in the west.

Salam at first we don't have hive mentality in similar fashion of Wahabists who are trying put  anyone into a rigid clique of turning anyone likewise of Arabs in KSA 

also You have too much exaggerated about racism while it's mostly cultural differences between communities which generally is not a bad thing if it doesn't has priority over Islamic teachings which it's a natural & rational thing that people try to preserve their culture & heritage in a foreign land until it doesn't lead to forming a rigid community that doesn't welcome any newcomer or stranger also in holy Quran it has been mentioned that Allah could make all people one nation with one religion but he put this differences between people as a test in order to people know each other & overcome negative things likewise racism & etc in order to good people will separate from bad people which "The Ummah of Muhammed and the Masjid of Muhammed was about Islam." doesn't mean perishing other cultures & subcultures until it doesn't contradict with Islamic teachings . 

Quote

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍ وَأُنثَىٰ وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ شُعُوبًا وَقَبَائِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوا ۚ إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِندَ اللَّهِ أَتْقَاكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌ ‎﴿١٣﴾‏ 

O mankind! Indeed, We created you from a male and a female, and made you nations and tribes that you may identify yourselves with one another. Indeed the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is the most Godwary among you. Indeed Allah is all-knowing, all-aware. (13)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/49:13

Quote

وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَمُهَيْمِنًا عَلَيْهِ ۖ فَاحْكُم بَيْنَهُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ ۖ وَلَا تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءَهُمْ عَمَّا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْحَقِّ ۚ لِكُلٍّ جَعَلْنَا مِنكُمْ شِرْعَةً وَمِنْهَاجًا ۚ وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَجَعَلَكُمْ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَلَٰكِن لِّيَبْلُوَكُمْ فِي مَا آتَاكُمْ ۖ فَاسْتَبِقُوا الْخَيْرَاتِ ۚ إِلَى اللَّهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ ‎﴿٤٨﴾‏

We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, confirming what was before it of the Book and as a guardian over it. So judge between them by what Allah has sent down, and do not follow their desires against the truth that has come to you. For each [community] among you We had appointed a code [of law] and a path, and had Allah wished He would have made you one community, but [His purposes required] that He should test you in respect to what He has given you. So take the lead in all good works. To Allah shall be the return of you all, whereat He will inform you concerning that about which you used to differ. (48) 

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/5:48

Letter 53: An order to Malik al-Ashtar

About counsellors

 

Do not discontinue the good practices which the earlier people of this community had acted upon, by virtue of which there was general unity and through which the subjects prospered. Do not innovate any line of action which injures these earlier practices because (in that case) the reward for those who had established those practices will continue, but the burden for discontinuing them will be on you. Keep on increasing your conversations with the scholars and discussions with the wise to stabilize the prosperity of the areas under you, and to continue with that in which your predecessors had established.

وَلاَ تَنْقُضْ سُنَّةً صَالِحَةً عَمِلَ بِهَا صُدُورُ هذِهِ الاْمَّةِ، وَاجْتَمَعتْ بِهَا الاْلْفَةُ، وَصَلَحَتْ عَلَيْهَا الرَّعِيَّةُ،لاَ تُحْدِثَنَّ سُنَّةً تَضُرُّ بِشَيء مِنْ مَاضِي تِلْكَ السُّنَنِ، فَيَكُونَ الاْجْرُ بِمَنْ سَنَّهَا، وَالْوِزْرُ عَلَيْكَ بِمَا نَقَضْتَ مِنْهَا. وَأَكْثِرْ مُدَارَسَةَ الَعُلَمَاءِ، وَمُنَافَثَةَ الْحُكَمَاءِ، فِي تَثْبِيتِ مَا صَلَحَ عَلَيْهِ أَمْرُ بِلاَدِكَ، وَإِقَامَةِ مَا اسْتَقَامَ بِهِ النَّاسُ قَبْلَكَ.

The different classes of people

Know that the people consist of classes who prosper only with the help of one another, and they are not independent of one another.

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Among them are the army of Allah, then the secretarial workers of the common people and the chiefs, then the dispensers of justice, then those engaged in law and order, then the payers of head tax (jizyah) and land tax (kharaj) from the protected unbelievers and the common Muslims, then there are the traders and the men of industry and then the lowest class of the needy and the destitute. Allah has fixed the share of every one of them and laid down His precepts about the limits of each in His Book (Qur'an) and the sunnah of His Prophet by way of of a settlement which is preserved with us.

وَاعْلَمْ أَنَّ الرَّعِيَّةَ طَبَقَاتٌ لاَ يَصْلُحُ بَعْضُهَا إلاَّ بِبَعْض، وَلاَ غِنَى بِبَعْضِهَا عَنْ بَعْض: فَمِنْهَا جُنُودُ اللهِ،مِنْهَا كُتَّابُ الْعَامَّةِ وَالْخَاصَّةِ، وَمِنْهَا قُضَاةُ الْعَدْلِ، وَمِنهَا عُمَّالُ الاْنْصَافِ وَالرِّفْقِ، وَمِنْهَا أَهْلُ الْجِزْيَةِ وَالْخَراجِ مِنْ أَهْلِ الذِّمَّةِ وَمُسْلِمَةِ النَّاسِ، وَمِنْهَا التُّجَّارُ وَأَهْلُ الصِّنَاعَاتِ، وَمِنهَا الطَّبَقَةُ السُّفْلَى مِنْ ذَوِي الْحَاجَةِ وَالْمَسْكَنَةِ، وَكُلٌّ قَدْ سَمَّى اللهُ سَهْمَهُ، وَوَضَعَ عَلَى حَدِّهِ وَفَرِيضَتِهِ فِي كِتَابِهِ أَوْ سُنَّةِ نَبِيِّهِ (صلى الله عليه وآله)عَهْداً مِنْهُ عِنْدَنَا مَحْفُوظاً.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-53-order-malik-al-ashtar#different-classes-people

[Diaz]

18 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Are you aware Imam Mahdi is the son of a black slave woman? His mother was likely a black bondswoman.

Is this real?

[Ashvazdanghe]

2 hours ago, Diaz said:

Is this real?

Salam 

Third, al-Kulayni reported that Imam al-Mahdi's (a) mother was a slave woman from Nawba, northern province of Sudan.^[9] 

^{anyway @In Gods Name doesn't believe to authenticity of any narration from Kulayni (رضي الله عنه) anyway important matter is that she has been  a descendant of Simon, the disciple of Jesus (a) whether she has been  black slave or Roman princess .} 

Her Nationality

The first narration about her nationality goes back to 286/899-900. Al-Shaykh al-Saduq is the first scholar who brought up this topic. According to this narration, she was a Christian from Roman Empire who was captured by Muslims. Nakhkhas –one of the companions of Imam al-Hadi (a)- bought her from the slave market in Baghdad and sent her to Imam al-Hadi (a) in Samarra.

However, this narration loses its authenticity afterward and looks more like a fairy tale. It continues that the mother of twelfth Imam was Malika bt. Yusha' the grand-daughter of Caesar from his daughter, and her mother was a descendant of Simon, the disciple of Jesus (a). When Malika was in his grand-father's palace, she dreamed lady Mary (a), Jesus's mother, and Lady Fatima (a), the Prophet's (s) daughter. Lady Fatima (a) invited her to embrace Islam and convinced her to let herself to be captured by Muslims.^[8]

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Criticism of this Hadith

Authenticity of this narration have been questioned from several aspects. The most dubious point is the last part. First, there was no major conflict between Abbasid and Romans after 242/856-7 and there is no report in the sources that the Roman Emperor asked Abbasid to free her grand-daughter.

Second, early authors such as al-Qummi, Nawbakhti, al-Kulayni and al-Mas'udi who were contemporaries of al-Shaybani - the narrator of the hadith - did not mention this hadith in their works. Also, al-Kashshi, who was acquainted with al-Shaybani, asserts that he was from Ghulat.

Third, al-Kulayni reported that Imam al-Mahdi's (a) mother was a slave woman from Nawba, northern province of Sudan.^[9]

Additionally, al-Nu'mani and al-Saduq have narrated other hadiths which say that she was a black slave woman.^[10]

But why later Shi'a scholars ignored these hadiths and believed that al-Shaybani's hadith is authentic? It is possible that it was because his hadith implies that Imam al-Mahdi's (a) mother was from a noble family with a high social rank. Also, the relation between Imam al-Mahdi (a) and Jesus (a) in this hadith fascinated them, because there are some hadiths from the Prophet (s) which imply that they both rise up together and save the world from injustice and tyranny.

According to the three previously mentioned points, one can reject al-Shaybani's hadith; although al-Shaykh al-Tusi and Ibn Rustam al-Tabari authenticated it.

Apparently, al-Shaykh al-Mufid has narrated a sahih hadith about the mother of Imam al-Mahdi (a). He narrated: "she was a slave women who was brought up in the house of Hakima, Imam al-Hadi's sister, and when Imam (a) saw her face, foretold that she will bear a child by the special blessing of God."

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Narjis_(a)

[Ashvazdanghe]

2 hours ago, Diaz said:

Is this real?

Majority of wives 7 mothers of infallible imams from mother of imam Reza (عليه السلام) to 12th Imam have been from  north of Africa likewise from Berber people or Maghrib (Morocco) so there s a possibility that mother of 12th Imam (aj) has been from that region anyway she has been mentioned as  a descendant of Simon, the disciple of Jesus (a) .

[root]

Ask yourself: Why did i become a shia? If it was for community or people or organization etc etc, then you need to reflect. If you became a shia for the right reasons, these things won't matter(I'm not saying it's easy, i'm just saying it won't matter). 

[In Gods Name]

12 hours ago, Diaz said:

Is this real?

I have previously discussed the weakness of the oft-repeated story of Narjis, mother of the 12^th Imaam. I showed that the narration that states that she (Narjis) was a Roman princess sold to Imaam al-`Askari (عليه السلام) is mawDoo` (Fabricated)  (Click here to go read that post).

 

I did some more research about the origins of the mother of our Imaam (عليه السلام), and I came across this SaHeeH (Authentic) hadeeth. According to this hadeeth, our 12^th Imaam’s mother was a black bondswoman (female slave). After mentioning this narration, I will discuss one of the narrators (Yazeed Aboo Khaalid al-Kunaasee).

 

 

أخبرنا أحمد بن محمد بن سعيد ابن عقدة قال حدثنا محمد بن المفضل بن قيس بن رمانة الأشعري و سعدان بن إسحاق بن سعيد و أحمد بن الحسين بن عبد الملك و محمد بن الحسن القطواني قالوا جميعا حدثنا الحسن بن محبوب الزراد عن هشام بن سالم عن يزيد الكناسي قال سمعت أبا جعفر محمد بن علي الباقر ع يقول إن صاحب هذا الأمر فيه شبه من يوسف ابن أمة سوداء يصلح الله عز و جل له أمره في ليلة واحدة

 

From Yazeed al-Kunaasee said, I heard Abaa Ja`far Muhammad bin `Alee al-Baaqir (عليه السلام), he said: “Verily, the master of this affair (i.e. al-Qaa’im) in him is resemblance of Yoosuf (عليه السلام), he is the son of a black bondswoman (female slave), and Allaah (عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ) will reform his affair in one night”

Source:

1.     Al-Nu`maani, Kitaab al-Ghaybah, ch. 13, pg. 228, hadeeth # 8

2.     Al-Nu`maani, Kitaab al-Ghaybah, pg. 163, hadeeth # 3

 

http://www.revivingalislam.com/2011/07/mother-of-imam-mahdi.html

[In Gods Name]

10 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Majority of wives 7 mothers of infallible imams from mother of imam Reza (عليه السلام) to 12th Imam have been from  north of Africa likewise from Berber people or Maghrib (Morocco) so there s a possibility that mother of 12th Imam (aj) has been from that region anyway she has been mentioned as  a descendant of Simon, the disciple of Jesus (a) .

Imam Mahdi has a mother who was a black bondswoman. Not north african, but black.  

Imam Baqir says ابن أمة سوداء

 

[Cool]

On 10/3/2023 at 2:23 AM, In Gods Name said:

Imam Mahdi has a mother who was a black bondswoman. Not north african, but black.  

Imam Baqir says ابن أمة سوداء

One more point I would like to make. In our hadith books, there are reports of eye-witnesses who saw or met with Imam of our time. None of those reports mentioned Imam (عليه السلام) as black or half-black person. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

Stick in there, brother. Stick in there, even if it is difficult. Remember that heavy boulder on the chest of Bilal (رضي الله عنه). Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will not let go your struggle go waste. You will be handsomely compensated for all your sufferings, inshallah. 

Racism is in fact a serious problem within Shi'a communities worldwide. If you are a revert, it further compounds the problem. The Sunnis seem to have solved this problem since you see so many multicultural families these days. Not so much the Shi'a. The diasporic Shi'a in the West should ideally have transcended racial and ethnic boundaries to form a close knit community like the Muhajirun in Medina. Instead they chose to go the jahili tribalistic way. There are disownings, social boycotts and even honour killings because the children refuse to marry within their caste/tribe/nationality/ethnicity. Things have gotten so ugly that youngsters are being pushed away from the religion itself, because when they think of 'Islam', they don't relate to the egalitarian atmosphere of the Masjid an-Nabawi, where the Awsi rubbed shoulders with the Khazraji, the Arab with the Ethiopian and the Persian. What comes to their mind is the cliquey, chauvinist atmosphere of their local masjid/center, where everything which Islam should not be is on full and brazen display. 

Those who deny this either live under a rock, or are dishonest, or both, because fingers are being pointed at them. This is point of no return for the Shi'a, particularly the new generation, where they must make a choice- either mend their ways and part with the jahili customs of their forefathers, or become Judaism/Zoroastrianism/Hinduism 2.0.

For context, I'm a revert (desi background) myself. 

Edited October 4 by AbdusSibtayn

[realizm]

 

Racism in mosques is not a shia thing. 

It also exists in Sunni mosques. 

Brother should be happy to at least find a place where he can pray in congregation as a shia, because that's what mosques are for. Besides I doubt he cannot even have bits of conversations or social interactions, at least with youths. 

If he is looking for a social club with majority of black folks, then indeed he may not have done the best choice. 

[Guest Hina]

On 9/26/2023 at 6:59 PM, Guest BoredPanda said:

This is a very childish rant, but here I go. I come from an African, Sunni family and became Shia during the pandemic.

Since the pandemic has slowed down and everything has opened up, I've been trying to go to Shia mosques. I'm very welcome, but I feel a little distant from everything given my ethnic background.

Mosques in the West really just serve as ethnic enclaves, and so I always felt inclined to go to mosques run by Somalis or whatever related background. Suddenly I'm entering into ethnic enclaves of other groups, with no way to really ingratiate myself and feel pretty alienated. Also have been on Shia online spaces, and it's kinda wild how racist they can get to blacks. It's fine to joke around, but the intensity of these racial jokes towards people who look like me just makes me feel even more alienated. I've also been told I'm probably not gonna get married within the Shia community given that I'm black, and the Arabs and Desis marry among their own for the most part (which is fine).

I kinda wish to return back to Sunnism, return back to my people.

I understand totally what you mean about missing your community. I can relate. 

Unfortunately you are right the masjid can be very community and ethnically led.  I think what your saying the isolation is so bad it makes you want to be back in your sunni community.. but you MUST distinguish the two.  Honestly there sre many born shias who have issues with the way historically communities have run mosques.

I do think now it's changing. Have you looked at all options around you. There could be centres more open and English lectures available.

Also try and get into involving yourself. Theyll always been keen on volunteers. My bro in law is a white convert and he has started volunteering in the madressa on sat.

As for getting married don't listen to others. Absolutely racism exists. But you will find knowledgeable educated shias now who look at the person not background. I know of couples black and Asian shia. Very practising. Just have to be patient InshAllah.

Remember you became shia to follow the true Sunnah and the ahlulbayt not because of these communities. 

My bro in law does a lot of online courses, immerses himself in that.

InshAllah when you'll get married you'll have your own little belonging.

[Guest BoredPanda]

Alright, so I've been looking through the replies to this the past week and I'm wondering if people understand my post.

I didn't become Shia to find a social group, clearly. My own family effectively disowned me for my decision. You don't know my story.

Another thing, I wasn't calling anyone racist. Just like with my own ethnicity, people like to congregate with their own. I've, growing up in America, have developed as a more cosmopolitan person, which I'm realizing isn't the most conducive to my goals to get married and have children. Particularly as I alienate myself from the largest section of Muslims (that being Sunnis).

The way in which people have been misconstruing my post as an accusation of racism against all Shia, when I'm really talking about ethnic diasporas being more inclined toward their own, is a little offensive.

[In Gods Name]

5 hours ago, realizm said:

 

Racism in mosques is not a shia thing. 

It also exists in Sunni mosques. 

Brother should be happy to at least find a place where he can pray in congregation as a shia, because that's what mosques are for. Besides I doubt he cannot even have bits of conversations or social interactions, at least with youths. 

If he is looking for a social club with majority of black folks, then indeed he may not have done the best choice. 

 

When did he say he wanted a club of "black folks" ?

He wants an accepting community, where islam is at the forefront rather than the centre being a glorified cultural heritage site for any race. 

A mosque is for Allah, not for making another mini-pakistan, mini-Nigeria, Mini lebanon, Mini-Iraq etc

[In Gods Name]

8 hours ago, Cool said:

One more point I would like to make. In our hadith books, there are reports of eye-witnesses who saw or met with Imam of our time. None of those reports mentioned Imam (عليه السلام) as black or half-black person. 

You have a saheeh hadith clearly stating the mother of imam Mahdi was a black female slave. 

You also have clear context supporting this - Imam Askari was jailed, he did not have much of an opportunity to even marry the traditional way, which is why there was a lot of confusion as to whether he even had a son to begin with. The child coming from a servant is much more likelier. 

No other authentic traditions exist to cast doubt on this, which is supported by historical context, and a short chained saheeh tradition.

This won't go down well for those who have painted the Imam as a a white man, or persian man with green eyes and almost with make up on, as you see in those disrespectful drawings, but it's supported by the best evidence.

It matter not what his race is, but the Imam is mixed race, and half black.