Arbaeen has no basis- Ayatollah Kamaal al Hayderi & Ayatollah Fadhlullah

[In Gods Name]

 

And: Ziyarat Arbaeen has no basis

 

and

Syed Fadhlullah , Arbaeen has no basis

 

[ali_fatheroforphans]

Salam Alaykum,

Of course I doubt every practice that exists within our community has directly emerged from our sources in its exact form and shape. But at this point like the speaker said there are a lot of positives and I think it keeps our communities intact. I think just being aware of this should suffice and always striving to educate ourselves in matters of our history and not judging others.

Visiting the graves of our Imams (عليه السلام) does bring about a lot of rewards regardless. One could visit anytime of the year including Arba'een.  

 

Edited September 27 by ali_fatheroforphans

[Cool]

Come on!! Who even says that ziyarat e Arbaeen or any of the ziyarat is obligatory (تكليف الشرعي). It has to do much with the مودة of Ahlul Bayt عليهم السلام. 

Keeping in view the message of Karbala and the sacrifice of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام), has so much importance for us that we believe "Every day is Ashura and every land is Karbala".

We remain in need of the lessons taught by the Imam (عليه السلام) everyday, anywhere we may be, to fight with the internal (taghut of nafs) & the external taghut. 

[In Gods Name]

1 hour ago, Cool said:

Come on!! Who even says that ziyarat e Arbaeen or any of the ziyarat is obligatory (تكليف الشرعي). It has to do much with the مودة of Ahlul Bayt عليهم السلام. 

Keeping in view the message of Karbala and the sacrifice of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام), has so much importance for us that we believe "Every day is Ashura and every land is Karbala".

We remain in need of the lessons taught by the Imam (عليه السلام) everyday, anywhere we may be, to fight with the internal (taghut of nafs) & the external taghut. 

Agreed and well said. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

7 hours ago, Cool said:

Come on!! Who even says that ziyarat e Arbaeen or any of the ziyarat is obligatory (تكليف الشرعي). It has to do much with the مودة of Ahlul Bayt عليهم السلام. 

Keeping in view the message of Karbala and the sacrifice of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام), has so much importance for us that we believe "Every day is Ashura and every land is Karbala".

We remain in need of the lessons taught by the Imam (عليه السلام) everyday, anywhere we may be, to fight with the internal (taghut of nafs) & the external taghut. 

Moreover, as per the authentic hadith from Imam al-Askari (عليه السلام), the Arba'een ziyarat is also one of the identifications of a mu'min (true believer), among other signs such as wearing an agate ring on the right hand, reciting bismillah loudly etc. 

So if someone were to cast aspersions on it, we can only better know what his beliefs are. 

Salam. 

Edited September 27 by AbdusSibtayn

[Cool]

36 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

the Arba'een ziyarat is also one of the identifications of a mu'min (true believer),

Salam! Late Ayatullah Fadlullah has discussed that hadith in his video in OP. He has expressed his critics on that hadith. 

 

[AbdusSibtayn]

11 hours ago, Cool said:

Salam! Late Ayatullah Fadlullah has discussed that hadith in his video in OP. He has expressed his critics on that hadith. 

 

That's clearly not the authoritative/mainstream position. I don't want to wade into this again, but he's known to weaken reports agreed upon by the vast majority of the scholarship as reliable. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

1 hour ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

That's clearly not the authoritative/mainstream position. I don't want to wade into this again, but he's known to weaken reports agreed upon by the vast majority of the scholarship as reliable. 

http://realtashayyu.blogspot.com/2013/12/arbaeen-bidah.html?m=1

1. Here is a discussion on this very video from another revisionist who was once active here. He is batting in favor of Fadlallah's position but even he is forced to admit that the interpretation of '40 believers' is incorrect. 

2. The fact that the salaf have deemed it reliable enough to be acted upon and included in their works is enough proof for me. 

Wassalam. 

Edited September 28 by AbdusSibtayn

[AStruggler]

Salam, you brothers might find this discussion interesting. Please patiently watch the whole thing, the Shaykh goes over the Ilm al Rijaal research of Sayyid Ridha Sistani, the son of Ayatollah Sistani, regarding Ziarat of Arba'in: 
 

@ali_fatheroforphans @Cool @In Gods Name @AbdusSibtayn

By the way, you can find some amazing lecture series in the Playlists and Live tabs of his YouTube channel. 

[In Gods Name]

On 9/28/2023 at 5:53 AM, AbdusSibtayn said:

That's clearly not the authoritative/mainstream position. I don't want to wade into this again, but he's known to weaken reports agreed upon by the vast majority of the scholarship as reliable. 

It depends on what time period.

Ayatullah Mamqani is a major scholar in the modern day era. He said, if many of the present day scholars were taken back in time to Qom, in the era of Saduq, Mufid, Tusi, they would be wholesale kicked out of Qom and Najaf and be branded as Ghulat and heretics. 

[Cool]

On 9/28/2023 at 8:53 AM, AbdusSibtayn said:

That's clearly not the authoritative/mainstream position.

Yes brother! I know that. I am not a fan of late Ayatullah Fadlullah. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

On 10/6/2023 at 1:07 PM, In Gods Name said:

It depends on what time period.

Ayatullah Mamqani is a major scholar in the modern day era. He said, if many of the present day scholars were taken back in time to Qom, in the era of Saduq, Mufid, Tusi, they would be wholesale kicked out of Qom and Najaf and be branded as Ghulat and heretics. 

And likewise the contemporary ulama of Baghdad/Kufa would kick out some of the Qummi and Nawbakhti ulama for being muqassirs. I have read the ibarah from Shaykh Mamaqani (rh) himself and he was talking of the early Qummi scholars, not necessarily scholars of a 'period'. Mixing Tusi and Mufid in the same category is not very nice as they didn't have the same view. 

That shows the position of the Qummiyeen among the qudama at best. Not necessarily the correct position. 

The very fact that the Qummi scholarship was writing such polemical writings against their detractors shows that there was ikhtilaf among the Imami salaf, and possibly even among the Qummis themselves. 

Edited October 8 by AbdusSibtayn