A bit of a disturbing issue regarding the Twelfth Imam (as) representatives

[In Gods Name]

According to us Shia, Emaam Mahde had four Safeers or representatives. This is known as the minor occultation. Wahhabis are now refuting this. I do not want to post their videos or link their site.

However, when the first one became a representative, his proof was the signature of the Imam. Now, when he died, his son took over as the second representative. His proof was again, the identical signature of the Imam. But when you come to the third and fourth representative, apparently they don't use the signature of the Imam anymore. They are not related to the father and son who were the first two. This has led a lot of people to claim that the first representative, who was an oil merchant, and his son, forged that signature as proof, and when the son died, the other two who were not related obviously were not in on this ruse. 

Another claim made is, in the books of hadith, the representatives of Imam Mahdi have not published any books of hadith. They have not disseminated a book of tafseer from the Imam. In a period of confusion when Kulayni himself said he was forced to write a book of hadith because he felt a lot of shias were confused, we do not find any scholarly work coming from the representatives.  The sometimes reply to minor queries but there is no book of Fiqh from them. Instead, the books of hadith are full of the representatives being occupied with obtaining khums and disseminating wealth and property.

Wahhabis say this is evidence the father and son forged the signature, and this is also evidence the safeers of Imam Mahdi were opportunists who sought power amid the confusion of whether the 11th Imam had a son.

Howe do we refute these Wahhabi claims?

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 9/24/2023 at 4:28 PM, In Gods Name said:

Another claim made is, in the books of hadith, the representatives of Imam Mahdi have not published any books of hadith. They have not disseminated a book of tafseer from the Imam.

Salam They have been as intermediator between Imam Mahdi (aJ) & other shias specially knowledgeable people likewise Kulayni (رضي الله عنه) who narrated from four deputies in his book which he has collected questions of people & answers of Imam Mahdi (aj) through his four special deputies so therefore they didn't did to rewrite similar books likewise Kafi of Kulayni (رضي الله عنه) also they have been very knowledgeable people of their time which even their enemies have confessed to it .

On 9/24/2023 at 4:28 PM, In Gods Name said:

Instead, the books of hadith are full of the representatives being occupied with obtaining khums and disseminating wealth and property.

This is exaggeration of an minor matter by Wahabists which narration about this matter hardly fills a single paper .

On 9/24/2023 at 4:28 PM, In Gods Name said:

However, when the first one became a representative, his proof was the signature of the Imam. Now, when he died, his son took over as the second representative. His proof was again, the identical signature of the Imam. But when you come to the third and fourth representative, apparently they don't use the signature of the Imam anymore.

This is also a propganda by Wahbists because they don't know process of choosing them which they have been chosen by Imam himself  not other people or forcing Imam to accept it , also letter of Imam Mahdi (aj) to his last special representative is a famous authentic letter which proves all four of them have had enough signs & signature from Imam Mahdi (aj) for proving their status .which all of evidences have been recorded in authentic Shia books although negating it by Wahabists  which they even deny existence of Imam Mahdi (aj) so therefore in similar fashion  they deny  existence of his four special Safeers (deputies)  for him too which if they accept existence of these four special Safeers (deputies) so therefore they  must accept existence of Imam Mahdi (aj) as their master  which it completely perishes them . 

[In Gods Name]

12 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam They have been as intermediator between Imam Mahdi (aJ) & other shias specially knowledgeable people likewise Kulayni (رضي الله عنه) who narrated from four deputies in his book which he has collected questions of people & answers of Imam Mahdi (aj) through his four special deputies so therefore they didn't did to rewrite similar books likewise Kafi of Kulayni (رضي الله عنه) also they have been very knowledgeable people of their time which even their enemies have confessed to it .

I love your effort and energy.

Let me play devils advocate.

The Wahhabis say, Kulayni according to most of our scholars believed the Quran had missing verses, and he believed other verses had additional parts which were tampered with. Al Kafi is full of weak narrators and of those narrators many who promoted tahreef of the Quran. In fact, there was so much confusion among our Shia works of Hadith that Shaykh toosi decided to gather the contradictions and try to reconcile them. A case could be made for more refined books of hadith and reliable books of Fiqh and tafseer.

Kulayni compiled al kafi cause of how confused the Shias were. The safeers of the 12th Imam were there long before Kulayni was there. But not a single one of them authored a book of tafseer. A book of hadith. A book of Fiqh. At a time where there was mass confusion and a lot of taqqiyah and contradictory hadith in Fiqh and corrupt views of tahreef of Quran.

 

Why?

[In Gods Name]

On 9/25/2023 at 6:05 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

 

This is exaggeration of an minor matter by Wahabists which narration about this matter hardly fills a single paper .

 

Hadith claimed to be from the four safeers from Imam Mahdi about distributing wealth and money

This is just a small portion of what i found, i have made the names of the safeers in blue. I think they could fill a small book you know.

Hadith one: https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/27/1/37/3

H 247 - Informed me a group of scholars from Ja’far bin Muhammad Quluwayh and Abi Ghalib Zurari etc. from Muhammad bin Yaqub Kulaini from Ishaq bin Yaqub that he said: “I asked Muhammad bin Uthman Amari to write to the Imam a letter containing questions that were difficult for me. The Imam sent the following reply: “May the Almighty Allah keep you on guidance. You asked about those of our family and cousins. You should know that no one is related to the Almighty Allah. Anyone who denies us is not from us and his end will be same as the son of Prophet Nuh . As for the matter of my Uncle, Ja’far and his sons; it is same as the matter of the brothers of Yusuf . Barley wine is unlawful (Haraam). There is no problem in turnip extract. We only accept the monies sent by you so that you may be purified. Now whoever likes, should send it, whoever likes may not. The provision that the Almighty Allah has bestowed is better than whatever you send us. As for the reappearance and advent, it solely depends on the will of Allah and those who fix a time for it are liars. As for the saying of those who think that Imam Husain  has not been slain is a kind of disbelief, denial, deviation and misguidance. But as for the problems, which will occur in the future, you should refer to the narrators of our traditions for their verdicts as they are my proofs on you, and I am Allah’s proof on them.” As for Muhammad bin Uthman Amri, may Allah be pleased with him and his father, he is trustworthy and reliable one of mine and his writing is my writing. As for Muhammad bin Ali bin Mahziyar Ahwazi, then very soon, Allah would reform his heart and remove his doubt. As for the money that you sent for me, it is not acceptable to me, except that which is pure. And the compensation for a singing girl is unlawful. As for Muhammad bin Shazan bin Naeem; he is a Shia of Ahle Bayt . As for Abul Khattab Muhammad bin Ali Zainab Ajdaa; he and all his associates are accursed and you don’t cultivate the company of those who harbor their belief; and my forefathers and I are aloof from them. As for those who are in possession of our funds, in such a way that they consider them lawful for themselves and spend them; they have in fact devoured (Hell) Fire. As for Khums, it is lawful for our Shia till the time of reappearance, so far as their children are pure and not involved in sinful activities. As for the funds that are sent to us and after which they fell into doubts and became regretful of having paid to us, then anyone who wants, we would return to him and we are not needful of the money of those who harbor doubt with regard to Allah. As for the cause of occultation, the Almighty Allah has said: “O you who believe! Do not put questions about things, which if declared to you may trouble you…” (5:101) Each of my forefathers in his time was compelled by the oath of allegiance to the tyrant ruler and when I reappear, I would not be having the allegiance of any tyrant on my neck. As for how people would benefit from me during my occultation, it is like getting benefits from the sun concealed by clouds. I am the security for folks of the earth just as stars are security for inhabitants of the heavens. Therefore, do not ask what you are not in need of and do not put yourself into undue trouble. And pray more for an early reappearance; as in it lies your success. Peace be on you, O Ishaq Ibn Yaqub and peace be on all those who follow the guidance…”

Hadith two:https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/27/1/43/33

H 338 - A group of scholars narrated to us from Abu Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn Husain Ibn Babawayh, saying Abu Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Ali Aswad said: I used to carry religious dues procured as endowments to Abu Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Uthman Amari, which he would take from me. One day, I took some money to him. It was during his last days, two or three years prior to his demise. He ordered me to give them to Abul Qasim Ruh . I always asked Abul Qasim for receipts, so he complained to Abu Ja’far about it, and he ordered me, “Don’t insist on receipts and everything that reaches Abul Qasim is as if it reaches me.” After that, I took the dues to him and would not ask for receipts.

Hadith three:https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/27/1/37/24

H 268 - Narrated to us a group of scholars from Muhammad bin Ali bin Husain bin Musa bin Babawayh that: Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn Matil said: There was a woman called Zainab from the people of Aba. She was married to Muhammad Ibn Abdil Abi. She had three hundred dinars. She came to my uncle, Ja’far Ibn Muhammad Ibn Matil and said: “I want you to give this money to Abul Qasim Ibn Ruh.” My uncle sent me with her to translate for her. When I came to Abul Qasim, he addressed her in an eloquent tongue: “Zainab, chuna, chun bada, kulia, Junista.” It meant, “Zainab, how are you and how did you stay and what is the news of your children?” She did not need my translation. She gave the money and came back."

Hadith four:https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/27/1/43/30

H 335 - Narrated to me Husain Ibn Ibrahim Qummi that: Narrated to me Abul Abbas Ahmad bin Ali bin Nuh that: Narrated to me Abu Ali Ahmad bin Ja’far bin Sufyan Bazufari that: Narrated to me Abu Abdullah Ja’far bin Muhammad Madayani, known as Ibn Qazda in the cemetery of Quraish that: “It was my practice that when I carried religious dues that were in my hands to Shaykh Abu Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Uthman Amari I would say to him something no one else said its like, This money, the amount of which is such and such, belongs to the Imam . He would say, “Yes, leave it.” I would return and say, “Tell me it belongs to the Imam.” And he would say, “Yes, it belongs to the Imam ,” and then he would take it. The last time I saw him, I went to him with four hundred dinars. I talked to him as my custom was. He said, “Take it to Husain Ibn Rauh.” I paused and said: “You will take it from me like every time.” He turned me down like a stranger to my words and said: “Go, may Allah keep you well, and give them to Husain Ibn Rauh.” As I saw anger on his face, I moved and climbed on my mount. I had gone some distance that I had doubts, so I returned and knocked on the door. The servant came and asked, “Who are you?” I told him my name. He went inside and sought permission for my entry and came back, turning me down. I said, “Go and ask permission for me. I must see him.” He went inside and told him about my return. He had gone to the women’s quarters. He came out and sat over a bunk, while his feet were on the ground. He was wearing Arabian slippers, whose beauty was due to good looks of his feet. He asked, “What prompted you to return? And why didn’t you do what I told you to?” I said: “I did not dare do what you asked me to.” He called on me as he was angry, “Go, may Allah keep you well, for I have raised Abul Qasim Husain Ibn Rauh to my position and have assigned him my chair.” I asked, “By the order of the Imam?” He said: “Go, may Allah keep you well. It is as I told you.” I did not have any option, but to leave. I went to Abul Qasim Ibn Ruh. He was in a narrow house. I related to him what had happened. He was pleased and thanked Allah, the Exalted. I gave him the dinars. I kept submitting all my religious dues to him after that.

Hadith five:xhttps://thaqalayn.net/hadith/27/1/43/7

The narration is long. The two narrators say: Hasan  said to Badr, “Go and bring Uthman Ibn Saeed Amari.” It was not long that Uthman entered. Our master Imam Hasan Askari  said, “O Uthman go, for you are the representative and reliable and entrusted man with respect to God’s money. Take from these Yemeni gentlemen the religious dues they have brought.” Then the two narrators continue their narrative until they say: Then we all said: “O our Master, by Allah, Uthman is best of your Shia. You increased our knowledge with respect to his position in your service and that he is your representative and reliable man in God’s money.” He said: “Yes, and bear witness for me that Uthman Ibn Saeed Amari is my representative and that his son Muhammad is the representative of my son, your Mahdi.”

There are a lot more

[In Gods Name]

13 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

 

This is exaggeration of an minor matter by Wahabists which narration about this matter hardly fills a single paper .

 

 

Hadith six: https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/27/1/37/5

H 249 - Through the same chain of narrators, it is narrated from Abu Nasr Hibtullah bin Muhammad bin Umme Kulthum binte Abi Ja’far Amari that he said: Some people from Bani Naubakht, including Abul Hasan Ibn Kathir Naubakhti and Umme Kulthum Ibn Abi Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Uthman, may Allah be pleased with them, narrated to me that in a certain time, religious dues from Qom and its peripheries sent for the Master of the Age  were brought to Abu Ja’far . When the messenger reached Baghdad and delivered to Abu Ja’far what he had brought and then bid him farewell and was about to return, Abu Ja’far said, “There is one thing remaining, which you have been entrusted with.” “Where is it?” “Nothing is remaining with me, my master. I have submitted everything to you,” replied the messenger. “Something is remaining with you. So return to your belongings and search and remember what all was given to you,” said Abu Ja’far. The messenger left and for many days tried to remember, search and think. He did not recall anything, nor did anyone who was with him, reminded him of anything. He came back to Abu Ja’far and said: “Nothing given to me remains with me that I have not brought to your eminence.” Abu Ja’far said, “It is said that you have two Sardani garments, which were given to you by a certain man,” mentioning his name and his father’s name. “Where are they?” The messenger said: “Yes, by Allah, O my master, I totally forgot about them and I do not even remember where I have put them.” The man left and searched and opened everything he had with him and asked all he had carried something for, to look for those garments, but they were not to be found anywhere. He returned to Abu Ja’far and told him about the mishap. Abu Ja’far said, “You are ordered to go to so-and-so, the cotton seller, to whom you carried two loads of cotton in the cotton market. Open one of them having such and such writing. The two garments are on its side.” The messenger was amazed by the prediction of Abu Ja’far and went ahead to the spot and opened the load that he had told him of and there they were: two garments on the side, inserted into the cotton. He took them and brought them to Abu Ja’far and said: “I forgot them, because when I tied the goods, they were left outside by mistake, so I put them on the side of the cotton load to keep them safe.”

 

A lot here: https://thaqalayn.net/chapter/27/1/37

 

 

 

[In Gods Name]

14 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

shias specially knowledgeable people likewise Kulayni (رضي الله عنه)

Shia scholars claim he believed the Quran had missing verses. Al kafi is full of hadith about verses missing words and sentences which change the meaning. Why did the four representatives not correct him.

[Ashvazdanghe]

3 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Al kafi is full of hadith about verses missing words and sentences which change the meaning. Why did the four representatives not correct him.

 

 

Salam Wahabists has relied just one narration of Kafi which it has been mentioned in an addendum to Al-Kafi as Rawdha of Kafi which contains Shadh (strange & rare) & weak narration also it talks about number of verses not missing words which according to Shia scholars in that single narration Kulayni has considered Hadith Qudsi plus to verses of holy Quran also Wahabists acuse Shia scholars to believing to distortion of holy Quran which until now they have not provided a reliable & solid evidence for their false claims against Shia scholars. 

3 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

There are a lot more

You have just repaeted same name of same person of "Muhammad bin Uthman Amari" & "Abul Qasim Ruh" multiple times  which has shown  that Imam only has accepted Khums through his trusrwothy deputies also narration about garments just shows knowledge of Imam from unseen which Imam has mentioned what he has forgotten also pointed to location of garments . 

[In Gods Name]

6 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

 

 

Salam Wahabists has relied just one narration of Kafi which it has been mentioned in an addendum to Al-Kafi as Rawdha of Kafi which contains Shadh (strange & rare) & weak narration also it talks about number of verses not missing words which according to Shia scholars in that single narration Kulayni has considered Hadith Qudsi plus to verses of holy Quran also Wahabists acuse Shia scholars to believing to distortion of holy Quran which until now they have not provided a reliable & solid evidence for their false claims against Shia scholars. 

You have just repaeted same name of same person of "Muhammad bin Uthman Amari" & "Abul Qasim Ruh" multiple times  which has shown  that Imam only has accepted Khums through his trusrwothy deputies also narration about garments just shows knowledge of Imam from unseen which Imam has mentioned what he has forgotten also pointed to location of garments . 

I am on the same team as you.

But why do the representatives not have, between the four of them a single book of Fiqh, Tafseer, Hadith, or even one book of knowledge, if they were in direct communication for over 80 years with the Imam? Why are many of their correspondences about collecting money and rebuking those who claim to be the safeer and unlawfully collect money.

[In Gods Name]

6 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

 

 

Salam Wahabists has relied just one narration of Kafi which it has been mentioned in an addendum to Al-Kafi as Rawdha of Kafi which contains Shadh (strange & rare) & weak narration also it talks about number of verses not missing words which according to Shia scholars in that single narration Kulayni has considered Hadith Qudsi plus to verses of holy Quran also Wahabists acuse Shia scholars to believing to distortion of holy Quran which until now they have not provided a reliable & solid evidence for their false claims against Shia scholars. 

 

Al Kafi is full of hadith promoting tahreef which our scholars like Asif Muhsini have refuted. Kulayni believed in the distortion of the Quran, as did Majlisi. Saduq, Toosi, and many of our present ulema do not. 

[Muslim2010]

15 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Let me play devils advocate.

I agree for your role that you are Devil's representative.

15 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

The Wahhabis say, Kulayni according to most of our scholars believed the Quran had missing verses, and he believed other verses had additional parts which were tampered with. Al Kafi is full of weak narrators and of those narrators many who promoted tahreef of the Quran. In fact, there was so much confusion among our Shia works of Hadith that Shaykh toosi decided to gather the contradictions and try to reconcile them. A case could be made for more refined books of hadith and reliable books of Fiqh and tafseer.

Why the first three caliphs that are considered champion of wahabi  and sunni school of thought kept their followers devoid of the hadith of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) that came out after about 200 years the life of the prophet?

Edited September 26 by Muslim2010

[Muslim2010]

14 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Hadith claimed to be from the four safeers from Imam Mahdi about distributing wealth and money

This is just a small portion of what i found, i have made the names of the safeers in blue. I think they could fill a small book you know.

Hadith one: https://thaqalayn.net/hadith/27/1/37/3

H 247 - Informed me a group of scholars from Ja’far bin Muhammad Quluwayh and Abi Ghalib Zurari etc. from Muhammad bin Yaqub Kulaini from Ishaq bin Yaqub that he said: “I asked Muhammad bin Uthman Amari to write to the Imam a letter containing questions that were difficult for me. The Imam sent the following reply: “May the Almighty Allah keep you on guidance. You asked about those of our family and cousins. You should know that no one is related to the Almighty Allah. Anyone who denies us is not from us and his end will be same as the son of Prophet Nuh . As for the matter of my Uncle, Ja’far and his sons; it is same as the matter of the brothers of Yusuf . Barley wine is unlawful (Haraam). There is no problem in turnip extract. We only accept the monies sent by you so that you may be purified. Now whoever likes, should send it, whoever likes may not. The provision that the Almighty Allah has bestowed is better than whatever you send us. As for the reappearance and advent, it solely depends on the will of Allah and those who fix a time for it are liars. As for the saying of those who think that Imam Husain  has not been slain is a kind of disbelief, denial, deviation and misguidance. But as for the problems, which will occur in the future, you should refer to the narrators of our traditions for their verdicts as they are my proofs on you, and I am Allah’s proof on them.” As for Muhammad bin Uthman Amri, may Allah be pleased with him and his father, he is trustworthy and reliable one of mine and his writing is my writing. As for Muhammad bin Ali bin Mahziyar Ahwazi, then very soon, Allah would reform his heart and remove his doubt. As for the money that you sent for me, it is not acceptable to me, except that which is pure. And the compensation for a singing girl is unlawful. As for Muhammad bin Shazan bin Naeem; he is a Shia of Ahle Bayt . As for Abul Khattab Muhammad bin Ali Zainab Ajdaa; he and all his associates are accursed and you don’t cultivate the company of those who harbor their belief; and my forefathers and I are aloof from them. As for those who are in possession of our funds, in such a way that they consider them lawful for themselves and spend them; they have in fact devoured (Hell) Fire. As for Khums, it is lawful for our Shia till the time of reappearance, so far as their children are pure and not involved in sinful activities. As for the funds that are sent to us and after which they fell into doubts and became regretful of having paid to us, then anyone who wants, we would return to him and we are not needful of the money of those who harbor doubt with regard to Allah. As for the cause of occultation, the Almighty Allah has said: “O you who believe! Do not put questions about things, which if declared to you may trouble you…” (5:101) Each of my forefathers in his time was compelled by the oath of allegiance to the tyrant ruler and when I reappear, I would not be having the allegiance of any tyrant on my neck. As for how people would benefit from me during my occultation, it is like getting benefits from the sun concealed by clouds. I am the security for folks of the earth just as stars are security for inhabitants of the heavens. Therefore, do not ask what you are not in need of and do not put yourself into undue trouble. And pray more for an early reappearance; as in it lies your success. Peace be on you, O Ishaq Ibn Yaqub and peace be on all those who follow the guidance…”

The core from the text of hadith is generally neglected but  the collection of khums and alms taken to purify the people by imam as successor of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is criticized .

The following is the core text that provides us the emphasis for the necessary belief:

"As for the cause of occultation, the Almighty Allah has said: “O you who believe! Do not put questions about things, which if declared to you may trouble you…” (5:101) Each of my forefathers in his time was compelled by the oath of allegiance to the tyrant ruler and when I reappear, I would not be having the allegiance of any tyrant on my neck. As for how people would benefit from me during my occultation, it is like getting benefits from the sun concealed by clouds. I am the security for folks of the earth just as stars are security for inhabitants of the heavens. Therefore, do not ask what you are not in need of and do not put yourself into undue trouble. And pray more for an early reappearance; as in it lies your success. Peace be on you, O Ishaq Ibn Yaqub and peace be on all those who follow the guidance…"

[Muslim2010]

14 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Shia scholars claim he believed the Quran had missing verses. Al kafi is full of hadith about verses missing words and sentences which change the meaning. Why did the four representatives not correct him.

As it is not the job or assigned task for them the imam of time ie Mahdi (عليه السلام) after his reappearance will preform this task. Many hadith for the shia and sunni sources provide the answer.

Edited September 26 by Muslim2010

[Muslim2010]

4 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

But why do the representatives not have, between the four of them a single book of Fiqh, Tafseer, Hadith, or even one book of knowledge, if they were in direct communication for over 80 years with the Imam? Why are many of their correspondences about collecting money and rebuking those who claim to be the safeer and unlawfully collect money.

My answer to this foolish thought is that Why the first three caliphs that are considered champion of wahabi  and sunni thought kept their followers devoid of the hadith collection after the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) that came out after about 200 years the life of the prophet? 

Why any book was not written by the early caliphs for the collection of hadith? I may like to see the relevant reply before any further remarks on it.

wasalam

Edited September 26 by Muslim2010

[Muslim2010]

4 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Al Kafi is full of hadith promoting tahreef which our scholars like Asif Muhsini have refuted. Kulayni believed in the distortion of the Quran, as did Majlisi. Saduq, Toosi, and many of our present ulema do not. 

The devils representative  is a true devil commander spreading rumors by his mouth with the words coming the tongue of Wahabis. 

The hadith are evaluated and graded as you already know before those can be accepted and those are not according inline with the verses of quran stand rejected.

Edited September 26 by Muslim2010

[In Gods Name]

4 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

The devils representative  is a true devil commander spreading rumors by his mouth with the words coming the tongue of Wahabis. 

The hadith are evaluated and graded as you already know before those can be accepted and those are not according inline with the verses of quran stand rejected.

I fully agree with you. The more intelligent scholar have rejected the hadith that promote Tahreef.But scholars have admitted, Kulayni did not just compile hadith to be graded, everything he collected he believed to be authentic. He also had chapter ....names where he basically was giving his own belief and then using hadith to ....support that view, or , from the hadith deciding what the view should be by the chapter. Al Kafi is full of weak narrators many are accused. Accused of fabrication and being from the Ghoulaat. 

So why did none of the Safeers step in to produce proper works of hadith, tafseer, and Fiqh?A huge problem in current Shia fiqh is that so many of hadith about Fiqh contradict. Two of our four major books al istibsaar and tahdib al ahkem, from Tusi were created to try to reconcile massive contradictions.

@Ashvazdanghe

[In Gods Name]

4 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

I agree for your role that you are Devil's representative.

Why the first three caliphs that are considered champion of wahabi  and sunni school of thought kept their followers devoid of the hadith of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) that came out after about 200 years the life of the prophet?

I follow the ahlelbeyt. Not the caliphs. So let us not use what the caliphs did or didn't do. It should not be our business.

 

[In Gods Name]

4 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

As it is not the job or assigned task for them the imam of time ie Mahdi (عليه السلام) after his reappearance will preform this task. Many hadith for the shia and sunni sources provide the answer.

You asy imam mahdi ahleysalem will perform this task. But when he returns it will be the end of times. Why not provide for us hadith, tafseer and fiqh when out own major scholars admit, the biggest problem in shia hadith are the massive contradictions in hadiths about fiqh?  Our major book of hadtih al kafi, is full of weak and fabricated hadith our scholars reject about distortion of the quran. Kulayni believed in tahreef. It is also full of hadith from cursed narrators.

why did they do it (in my language)

[Ashvazdanghe]

17 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

I am on the same team as you.

Salam clearly we are opposit of each other which you just parroting Wahabi nonsense in every thred in similar fashion of a troll .

[Cool]

11 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

The more intelligent scholar have rejected the hadith that promote Tahreef.

Salam!

I would suggest you to see what kind of tehreef does they reject. Do you know there are verses in Quran which clearly mention the tehreef? Here are the two verses:

أَفَتَطْمَعُونَ أَنْ يُؤْمِنُوا لَكُمْ وَقَدْ كَانَ فَرِيقٌ مِنْهُمْ يَسْمَعُونَ كَلَامَ اللَّهِ ثُمَّ يُحَرِّفُونَهُ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا عَقَلُوهُ وَهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ {75}

[Shakir 2:75] Do you then hope that they would believe in you, and a party from among them indeed used to hear the Word of Allah, then altered it after they had understood it, and they know (this).

يَا أَيُّهَا الرَّسُولُ لَا يَحْزُنْكَ الَّذِينَ يُسَارِعُونَ فِي الْكُفْرِ مِنَ الَّذِينَ قَالُوا آمَنَّا بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَلَمْ تُؤْمِنْ قُلُوبُهُمْ ۛ وَمِنَ الَّذِينَ هَادُوا ۛ سَمَّاعُونَ لِلْكَذِبِ سَمَّاعُونَ لِقَوْمٍ آخَرِينَ لَمْ يَأْتُوكَ ۖ يُحَرِّفُونَ الْكَلِمَ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَوَاضِعِهِ ۖ يَقُولُونَ إِنْ أُوتِيتُمْ هَٰذَا فَخُذُوهُ وَإِنْ لَمْ تُؤْتَوْهُ فَاحْذَرُوا ۚ وَمَنْ يُرِدِ اللَّهُ فِتْنَتَهُ فَلَنْ تَمْلِكَ لَهُ مِنَ اللَّهِ شَيْئًا ۚ أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُرِدِ اللَّهُ أَنْ يُطَهِّرَ قُلُوبَهُمْ ۚ لَهُمْ فِي الدُّنْيَا خِزْيٌ ۖ وَلَهُمْ فِي الْآخِرَةِ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ {41}

[Shakir 5:41] O Messenger! let not those grieve you who strive together in hastening to unbelief from among those who say with their mouths: We believe, and their hearts do not believe, and from among those who are Jews; they are listeners for the sake of a lie, listeners for another people who have not come to you; they alter the words from their places, saying: If you are given this, take it, and if you are not given this, be cautious; and as for him whose temptation Allah desires, you cannot control anything for him with Allah. Those are they for whom Allah does not desire that He should purify their hearts; they shall have disgrace in this world, and they shall have a grievous chastisement in the hereafter.

From the above two verses, we get the evidence of tehreef e ma'nawi( تحريف المعنوي) which is done by even those who say "we believe" from their mouths. As far as "tehreef e lafzi" (تحريف الفظي) is concerned, Quran is protected from it according to the ijma' (consensus) of Muslims. 

Secondly, do you know what are the types of wahi? The revealed 30 Juzz of Quran are Wahi e Jali. But wahi is not limited to this part alone. There are other types of wahi as well, for instance:

وَمَا يَنْطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَىٰ إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَىٰ

53:3-4) Nor does he speak out of desire, It is naught but revelation that is revealed. 

According to above verses, the Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) explanations of verses & his actions are the result of revelation. Example, Quran has not mentioned how to pray, how many units to pray, what to say is qiyam, in ruk'u & in sujood. Whatever Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) taught from his words & actions about prayers, were the result of wahi e khafi (وحي الخفي). 

So when discussing the tehreef and even when studying the subject of tehreef, you should learn first what is tehreef and where it is usually applied when some scholar affirms or express doubts of tehreef. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

12 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

It is also full of hadith from cursed narrators.

Salam so called Sahih books of Sunnis is full of hadith from cursed narrators likewise cursed Muawyah or cursewd Umar ibn Sa'ad   which Hadith book of  Shias likewise Al-Kafi doesn't has such narrators which your accusation refers to people likewise Zurarah (رضي الله عنه) which Wahabists have made too much noise about his cursing which has been done due to Taqyia & preserving his life by Imam (عليه السلام) which although their baseless accusations  have been refuted countless times but they are repeating it just for  affecting  naive people .

12 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Kulayni believed in tahreef.

You can't bring a solid or rational evidence for your accusation except parroting nonsense of Wahabis. 

Are the Shi’a kaffir BECAUSE Tahreef traditions exist in their texts?

Nasibi website states:

The Imami Shi’a have not only misinterpreted the Qur’an, but they have made actual alterations in the text itself: The false verse, “And we made ‘Ali your in-law” has been added to Surah Al-Inshirah (Al-Kafi p.289) In 25:74, the verse “And make us a leader (Imam) for the God-fearing” is replaced with “And make for us a leader (Imam) from among the God-fearing.” Of even greater audacity is the addition of an entirely fabricated Surah to the Qur’an, called, “Surah al-Walayah” Translation of this false Surah is as follows: 1) O believers, believe in the Prophet and the guardian (wali), whom We sent to guide you to the straight path. 2) A Prophet and a Guardian, one from the other, and I am the Knower, the Wise. 3) Verily those who fulfil their covenant to Allah will have gardens of pleasure. 4) And for those who deny our signs when they are read to them, 5) Verily they will have a terrible place in Hell when they are called for on the Day of Judgement, ‘Where are the wrong-doers who denied the messengers?’ 6) He only created them in truth and Allah will surely make them victorious until a time in the near future. 7) Glorify the praises of your Lord and ‘Ali is among the witnesses.

 

Reply One – Hadith can NOT contradict the Qur’an

With regards to the traditions of Usul al Kafi that Minhajj had quoted, we should point out that these traditions have been deemed by the Ulema to be weak narrations. In addition to this Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) takes the responsibility of protection of the Qur’an Himself by declaring:

“Certainly We revealed the Reminder and certainly We shall preserve it.” (The Holy Qur’an 15: 9)

This is also confirmed by al-Kulayni, compiler of al-Kafi from where the Nasibis cite the tahreef traditions to their followers. In the introduction to al-Kafi he states:

“Brother, may God lead you to the right road. You ought to know that it is impossible for anyone to distinguish the truth from the untruth when Muslim scholars disagree upon statements attributed to the Imams. There is only one way to separate the true from the untrue reports, through the standard which was declared by the Imam: “Test the various reports by the Book of God; whatever agrees with it take it, whatever disagrees with it reject it”.

Allamah Najam-ul-Ghani Rampuri

 Qazi Noor Ullah Shostari writes in his book titled “Masaib-ul-Nawasib” that ‘the popular belief, which is associated with Shi’as that they do not believe in the completeness of Qur’an, is a lie. Shi’a researchers do not agree to this fact. And whoever says otherwise, is a liar.

Quote

 Allamah Sadiq Sharah writes in “Kafi-a-Kulayni” that ‘this Qur’an shall continue to remain in this same form till the reappearance of Imam Mahdi (as)’. Muhammad bin al Hasan Amali comments that ‘whoever analyses the traditions objectively will realize that on account of certain factors, the Qur’an can never be subject to alteration’.
1. Mazahib-ul-Islam, Page 447, Publishers Lakishwar Lucknow;
2. Muzayl-al-Ghawashi Sharah Usool Alshashi, Page9, Published Karachi

 

Reply Two – Sunni traditions of tahreef

 

A missing verse of suckling and stoning?

According to Umar and Ayesha, there were verses that were called verse of stoning and verse of suckling that have been lost from the Quran we have today in our hands. We read in Sunan Ibn Majah [Arabic], Book of Suckling, Hadith No. 2020:

“When the verse of stoning and verse of suckling descended, they were written on a piece of paper and kept under my pillow. Following the demise of Prophet Muhammad (S) a goat ate the piece of paper whilst we were mourning.”

Let us now read the unequivocal testimony of Umar who believed the verse of stoning was ‘lost’ following the death of Prophet [s]:

“Abd ul Razzak in Al Musannaf from Ibn Abbas said : Umar bin Al Khattab ordered a pesron to gather people for Salat of Jama’at, then he ascended on a pulpit, praised God and said: “O people! Do not get afraid about the verse of Al-Rajm because it is a verse that was revealed in the book of Allah and we recited it, but it was lost [Zahab] with much of the Quran gone with Muhammad and the proof of that is that the prophet [s] has stoned and Abu Bakr has stoned and I have stoned and there will come people from this nation who would deny the stoning”
Tafseer Dur e Manthur, Muqadmah of Surah Ahzab

Has most of Surah Ahzab been lost?

Al-Muttaqi ‘Ali bin Husam al-Din in his book “Mukhtasar Kanz al-’Ummal” printed on the margin of Imam Ahmad’s Musnad, Volume 2, page 2, in his hadith about chapter 33, said that Ibn Mardawayh reported that Hudhayfah said:

‘Umar said to me ‘How many verses are contained in the chapter of al-Ahzab?’ I said, ’72 or 73 verses.’ He said it was almost as long as the chapter of the Cow, which contains 287 verses, and in it there was the verse of stoning.

Suyuti narrates from Ayesha:

“Ayesha narrated that during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet [s] 200 verses were recited in Surah Ahzab but when Uthman collected the Mushaf, he only succeeded in locating the present number of verses”
Tafseer Durre Manthur Volume 5 page 180, al Itqan Volume 2 page 25

Has one-third of the Qur’an been lost?

The revered Sunni scholar al Hafidh Jalaladeen as Suyuti writes:

” Umar said at the Saqifa that the Qur’an has 1,027,000 letters”
Tafseer al Itqan” by as Suyuti, page 88

The present Qur’an has 267,033 letters. According to Umar’s research the Qur’an should have approximately 90 parts. What is the Nasibis fatwa here?

Has most of the Qur’an been lost?

Suyuti also records the following words of Abdullah ibn Umar:

‘Verily among you people one would say that he has found the Quran whilst he is unaware of what the total quantity of the Quran was, because most of the Quran has been lost rather one should say that verily he has found the Quran that has appeared.’
Tafseer Durre Manthur, Volume 1 page 104

A further two Surah’s missing from the Qur’an

Prominent Sahaba such Abi bin Ka’ab, Abdullah Ibn Masud, Umar and Ibn Abbas and Tabayeen such as Umaya bin Abdullah believed in two Surah namely Surah Hafd and Surah Khula which we do not find today. For example we read in Tafseer al Itqan (Urdu), Volume 1 page 172-173:

“The sequence of surahs in Ubai bin Ka’ab’s mushaf was in this manner:
[1]Al Hamd, [2]Al Baqrah, [3 ]Aal e Imran, [4]Al-An’am, [5]Al-Ar`af, [6]…[94] At-Takathur, [95]Al-Qadr, [96]Surat al Khul’a, [97] Surat al Haqd, [98]…”

We read in Tafseer Dur al Manthur, Volume 8 page 696:

“Ubaid narrates that he came to know that these two are the surahs from the Quran and are written in the mushaf of Ibn Masud”

Quote

The Deobandi Imam Maulana Anwar Shah’s Fatwa, that there is Tahreef in the Qur’an

We should point out to the Deobandi Sect, the fact that you believe Sahih al Bukhari to be one hundred per cent authentic (which is not our aqeedah (belief) about al-Kafi) that means that they have to believe in tahreef on account of the traditions of the Sahaba. The famous Indian Hadith scholar of the Deobandis Anwar Shah Kashmiri in his recognized Ahl’ul Sunnah work Fayz ul Bari, Volume 3 page 395 writes:

“The tahreef of meanings has not taken place in a lesser amount. In my eyes, this is proved by research that the tahreef of words has taken place in this Quran. This tahreef was done either intentionally or by mistake”

Is there any need to comment? On the basis of the opinion of the leading Deobandi scholar can we declare all Deobandi’s kaffir?

Our challenge to Minhajj – are there mistakes in the Qur’an?

Qadhi Thanaullah Pani Patii Uthmani records in his authority work Tafseer Mazhari, Volume 3 pages 215 & 216:

“Baghwi has written the statements of Ayesha [ra] and Aban Bin Uthman [ra] that ‘ALMUQEEMOONA ALSSALAT’ should have been written at this place. Similarly ‘WAALSSABI-OON’ in Surah Maidah’s verse ‘INNA ALLATHEENA AMANOO WAALLATHEENA HADOO WAALSSABI-OON’ and ‘HATHANI’ in the verse ‘IN HATHANI LASAHIRANI’ are the mistakes of writer (It should have been SABI-EEN & HATHAIN respectively). Hadrat Uthman [ra] had also stated that there were some mistakes (of writing) in the Mushaf and Arabs whilst reciting them would make the corrections themselves, through their language. When asked why he did not make the amendments, Uthman asked that it remain the same as it does not alter Halal to Haram and Haram to Halal”

Now Minhajj perhaps you could be so kind as to answer us this, when Uthman had testified that mistakes are present in the Qur’an then why did he not correct them?

The claim is not just an isolated one we also read in Al Itqan fi Uloom al Quran, Volume 1 page 210:

Abu Ubaid stated in Fadhail Quran that Abu Muawiyah narrated from Hisham bin Urwah from his father that Ayesha was asked about the following mistakes in the Quran ‘IN HATHANI LASAHIRANI’ and His [(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)] statement ‘WAALMUQEEMEENA ALSSALATA WAALMU/TOONA ALZZAKATA’ and His [(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)] statement ‘INNA ALLATHEENA AMANOO WAALLATHEENA HADOO WAALSSABI-OON’. She replied: ‘O son of my nephew, this is due to the act of the scribes of the Quran who committed a mistake whilst transcribing them’. The chain of this tradition is Sahih according to the conditions of the Shaikhain.

Now either:

Ayesha was lying

Or:

The Qur’an has indeed got mistakes in it.

We leave it to Minhajj to pass their fatwa and then declare it on their website

https://shiapen.com/blog/chapter-three-tahreef-of-the-quran

 

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

 

12 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

Kulayni believed in tahreef

 

 

 

 

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

13 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

So why did none of the Safeers step in to produce proper works of hadith, tafseer, and Fiqh?A huge problem in current Shia fiqh is that so many of hadith about Fiqh contradict. Two of our four major books al istibsaar and tahdib al ahkem, from Tusi were created to try to reconcile massive contradictions.

Salam their job has been managing network of Wikalah & supporting other Shia scholars for writing books likewise a manager that appoints an employee to write & review rules & procedures or does a project  which when employee has finished his task so then manager take a look at outcome which he confirms  it if it has been done without any error or orders some fixing  of errors until it finishes without any error . 

your accusation about Shia Fiqh or books have no evidnce which until now you just have parroted nonsense of Wahabis. without providing an example or relable evidence for proving your baseless accusations. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 9/26/2023 at 4:37 AM, In Gods Name said:

Shia scholars claim he believed the Quran had missing verses. Al kafi is full of hadith about verses missing words and sentences which change the meaning. Why did the four representatives not correct him.

You have repeated your baseless accusation in similar fashion a troll in another threads .

 

[In Gods Name]

1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam so called Sahih books of Sunnis is full of hadith from cursed narrators likewise cursed Muawyah or cursewd Umar ibn Sa'ad   which Hadith book of  Shias likewise Al-Kafi doesn't has such narrators which your accusation refers to people likewise Zurarah (رضي الله عنه) which Wahabists have made too much noise about his cursing which has been done due to Taqyia & preserving his life by Imam (عليه السلام) which although their baseless accusations  have been refuted countless times but they are repeating it just for  affecting  naive people .

13 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

I am a Shia, not a Wahhabi. Sunnis have much bigger issues i agree. At least we admit our books are full of weak narrators, they don't even realise their narrators are weak too.

[Ashvazdanghe]

10 minutes ago, In Gods Name said:

I am a Shia, not a Wahhabi. Sunnis have much bigger issues i agree. At least we admit our books are full of weak narrators, they don't even realise their narrators are weak too.

Salam I have not talked about your belief but on the other hand I have mentioned your procedure  which is just parroting wahabi nonsense without providing an example or reliable proof in similar fashion of a troll. 

[Muslim2010]

On 9/26/2023 at 4:54 AM, In Gods Name said:

Let me play devils advocate.

18 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

I follow the ahlelbeyt. Not the caliphs.

قَالَتِ الْأَعْرَابُ آمَنَّا ۖ قُل لَّمْ تُؤْمِنُوا وَلَٰكِن قُولُوا أَسْلَمْنَا وَلَمَّا يَدْخُلِ الْإِيمَانُ فِي قُلُوبِكُمْ ۖ وَإِن تُطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ لَا يَلِتْكُم مِّنْ أَعْمَالِكُمْ شَيْئًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

The dwellers of the desert say: We believe. Say: You do not believe but say, We submit; and faith has not yet entered into your hearts; and if you obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not diminish aught of your deeds; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (49:14)

إِذَا جَاءَكَ الْمُنَافِقُونَ قَالُوا نَشْهَدُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُ اللَّهِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنَّكَ لَرَسُولُهُ وَاللَّهُ يَشْهَدُ إِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ لَكَاذِبُونَ

When the hypocrites come to you, they say: We bear witness that you are most surely Allah's Messenger; and Allah knows that you are most surely His Messenger, and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are surely liars. (63:1)

wasalam

[In Gods Name]

On 9/27/2023 at 6:37 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

 

 

On 9/27/2023 at 4:43 PM, Muslim2010 said:

 

 

Moderassi wrote the above about the first Safeer in his book Crisis and Consolidation

[In Gods Name]

[In Gods Name]

@Ashvazdanghe @Muslim2010 @Cool

The letters by some of the safeers according to Moderrasi were more about money, occasionally about jurisprudence and surprisingly some of the safeers would give vauge answers like to consult a jurist you trust.

[Muslim2010]

The following are the words from hadith of Imam about his  safeer Muhammad bin Uthman Amari  :

 

Some text from above hadith:

"We only accept the monies sent by you so that you may be purified."

What do you get from the words of Imam in the light of your understanding of the verses of quran for the responsibilities of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and imams from Ahl alabayt (عليه السلام) ?

"As for Muhammad bin Uthman Amri, may Allah be pleased with him and his father, he is trustworthy and reliable one of mine and his writing is my writing"

What is your understanding on these words of Imam from the progeny of the prophet s.a.aw?

“O you who believe! Do not put questions about things, which if declared to you may trouble you…” (5:101) Each of my forefathers in his time was compelled by the oath of allegiance to the tyrant ruler and when I reappear, I would not be having the allegiance of any tyrant on my neck. As for how people would benefit from me during my occultation, it is like getting benefits from the sun concealed by clouds. I am the security for folks of the earth just as stars are security for inhabitants of the heavens. Therefore, do not ask what you are not in need of and do not put yourself into undue trouble. And pray more for an early reappearance; as in it lies your success. Peace be on you, O Ishaq Ibn Yaqub and peace be on all those who follow the guidance…”

What is your understanding on the above mentioned words from Imam of Mahdi (عليه السلام)?

wasalam

Edited October 8 by Muslim2010

[Ashvazdanghe]

13 hours ago, In Gods Name said:

The letters by some of the safeers according to Moderrasi were more about money, occasionally about jurisprudence and surprisingly some of the safeers would give vauge answers like to consult a jurist you trust.

You just copy & paste  anything  without mentioning it's source & without reading & understanding of content  which your accusation just has came from biased mindset & misinterpretation of Wahbists which in your copied images financial corruption few agents of Safeers likewise cursed Shalmaghani has been mentioned not Safeerss themselves which cursed Shalmaghani which has been  an agent of  Husayn b. Ruh al-Nawbakhti(رضي الله عنه) which he has abused  imprisonment of  Husayn b. Ruh al-Nawbakhti so then  claimed position of Husayn b. Ruh al-Nawbakhti(رضي الله عنه) for himself  "and later became an apostate and went astray in his beliefs." although you call bringing evidences as just copy & pasting anyway I have done it foo record 7 not inventing the wheel again also some of of sources are just in Farsi/Persian which I have copied & pasted the translation . 

Quote

After it was revealed that he had deviations, al-Husayn b. Ruh informed Shi'a about that from inside the prison and prohibited them from associating with him, so that in 312/924-5, a tawqi' was issued by Imam al-Mahdi (a) in which Imam (a) cursed al-Shalmaghani.^[27]

 

Quote

Imprisonment

Al-Husayn b. Ruh al-Nawbakhti was in prison of al-Muqtadir from 312/924-5 to 317/929-30. In Shi'a sources, no reason is mentioned for the imprisonment of al-Husayn b. Ruh, but Sunni sources mentioned two reasons:

• His avoidance of paying properties to the government
• Associating with Qaramata who ruled over Bahrain at that time.

 

The motive of Shalmaghani's deviation: Three factors have been considered as the causes of Shalmaghani's defection:

1. Profit seeking and greed for the imam's property and share that the Shiites gave to the Nawab. [6]

Quote

[6]. قزوینی، محمدکاظم، الامام المهدی من المهد الی الظهور، ص 200، بیروت، الوفاء، 1405ق.

2. Jealousy [7]

Quote

[7]. نجاشی، ابوالعباس احمدبن علی، الرجال، ص 293، بمبئی، 1317ق ؛ الصدر، محمد، تاریخ الغیبة الصغری، ص 514، اصفهان، مکتبة امیرالمؤمنین، 1362.

3. Political ambition [8]

Quote

[8]. تاریخ سیاسی غیبت امام دوازدهم، ص 200.

https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/fa4675

During this period some selfish and opportunistic people tried to take advantage of this and claimed to be the deputy of Sahib ul-‘Amr (Master Of the Affair), Imam az-Zaman (a.t.f.s.). We mention below the names of those imposters who advanced such claims during the deputyship of Muhammad b. ‘Uthman ((رضي الله عنه).):

1. Abu Muhammad Hasan Shariee.

2. Muhammad b. Naseer Numairy.

3. Ahmad b. Halal Abartaee.

4. Abu Tahir Muhammad b. Ali b. Bilal.

5. Abu Bakr Muhammad b. Ahmed b. ‘Uthman popular as Abu Bakr Baghdadi. He was the nephew of Muhammad b. ‘Uthman ((رضي الله عنه).)

6. Ishaq b. Ahmed.
7. Baaqataani
8. Husain b. Mansoor al-Hallaj.

It is noteworthy that all of them rivaled Muhammad b. ‘Uthman ((رضي الله عنه).) and refuted his deputyship. Their beliefs were distorted and their faith was weak. They were declared as fanatical and wretched during the period of Imam Hadi ((عليه السلام).) and Imam Hasan al-Askari ((عليه السلام).) itself.

 

By this we can easily gauge the extent of their jealousy towards Muhammad b. ‘Uthman ((رضي الله عنه).) and the problems they posed in his working. But Muhammad b. ‘Uthman ((رضي الله عنه).) dealt with them all with the help of Imam (a.t.f.s.) and fulfilled all his duties.

https://www.al-islam.org/special-deputies/second-special-deputy-muhammad-b-uthman-b-saeed-amri-ra

Husayn b. Ruh at the end of the third ministry of Ibn al-Furat was imprisoned. It seems that due to the deviations that occurred in Shalmaghani and went to Ghuluw, Ibn al-Furat also became his follower,they have made  caliph  Muqtadir as their companion  so then by persuading and encouragement through Shalmaghani , Husayn b. Ruh   who was working against Shalmaghani was put in prison. The following evidence strengthens this assumption:
 

Quote

a) As mentioned, during the third era of Abul Hasan bin Al-Furat, Mohsen requested cooperation from Shalmaghani; And this was the time when Shalmaghani changed his opinion and Husayn b. Ruh rejected him. (37) And considering the ambition of Shalmaghani, it was natural that he sought revenge on his rival, Husayn b. Ruh, upon reaching power  and encouraged Mohsen to arrest him.

 

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b) The history of Ibn al-Furat's family also confirms this issue. The father of Abul Hasan Ali ibn Muhammad ibn al-Furat was Muhammad ibn Musa, who supported Muhammad ibn Naseer Numairy,  another one of  Ghulats. (38) Muhammad ibn Naseer Numairy was at first a follower of Imam Hasan Askari, peace be upon him, but then he deviated and became an exagerator. He believed that God's spirit has settled in Ali, Fatimah, Hassan and Hussain (peace be upon them).

http://ensani.ir/fa/article/38179/علل-دست-گیرى-حسین-بن-روح-نوبختى

[Ashvazdanghe]