islam Did Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)) not know who the Jews were?

[UnamedK7]

Asalam alikum everyone, I hope your days have been well. Hopefully there are still some people on this site that can answer this. I found this argument on  YouTube that states that’s Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) didn’t know who the Jews were. 
THE QURAN ASKS US IF WE ARE MORE KNOWING THAN "ALLAH" Consider Q2:136 and Q2:140: ********************************************************************************* "Say, [O believers], 'We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him.'" (2:136) "Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants were Jews or Christians? Say, 'Are you more knowing or is Allah?' And who is more unjust than one who conceals a testimony he has from Allah ? And Allah is not unaware of what you do." (2:140) ********************************************************************************* Well, it seems that the "Allah" of the Quran did not know that Jews (יהודים Yehudim) referred to themselves in general using the name of the tribe of Judah (יהודה Yehuda, from where we get "Jew") as a synecdoche (using a part to refer to the whole). The "descendants" of Jacob are "Jews" in a literal hereditary manner as well as a tribal political manner connected to the kingdom of Judah ruled by the tribe of Judah, who were quite literally descendants of Jacob, in the land of Judah. The Quran clearly has no idea who the descendants of Jacob were, the identities of the tribes of Israel, and the connection to "Jews“.

[Rohani]

The reality of who they are and what they were called in language is not neccsarily talking about what they refer to them selves as anyways. Regardless  children of Israel meaning children of Jacob had many children one of them was judah. Maybe this is when maybe where the title jewish came from and judah but up to ones academic research. Don't forget there is a political and social history here with them. 

Now a days it is assumed from kitabi side that many hebrew tribes are missing. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Rohani

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 8/28/2023 at 6:11 PM, UnamedK7 said:

The "descendants" of Jacob are "Jews" in a literal hereditary manner as well as a tribal political manner connected to the kingdom of Judah ruled by the tribe of Judah, who were quite literally descendants of Jacob, in the land of Judah. The Quran clearly has no idea who the descendants of Jacob were, the identities of the tribes of Israel, and the connection to "Jews“.

Salam even historians & genetic researchers in western countries specially in America as main supporter of Zionists have no idea about origin of Judaism which they trt to justify stereotypical definition of zionists in order to they won't be accused to  Anti-Semitism .

Who is Jewish? What does “Jewish” mean?

Jews didn’t start using the word “Jew” as a way to identify themselves until after 500 BCE. In the Hebrew Bible and the Torah, the text that is most sacred to Jews, the term used most often is “the sons or daughters of Israel,” b’nei Yisroel or b’not Yisroel. The term “Israelites” also appears, along with the term “Hebrews.”

What are the origins of the Jewish people? Asking or answering this question is always tricky

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About half of Jewish people around the world today identify as Ashkenazi, meaning that they descend from Jews who lived in Central or Eastern Europe. The term was initially used to define a distinct cultural group of Jews who settled in the 10th century in the Rhineland in western Germany.

 

 

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Who were the ancient Israelites?

Ancient Israelites originated roughly in the territory of modern Israel, also known as the ancient Levant or ancient Canaan, sometime before 1000 BCE. These people were united by a sense of shared ancestry, myth, ritual and history.

Ancient Israelites believed that they were descendants of three people: Abraham, his son Isaac and his grandson Jacob. Jacob himself is renamed “Israel” in the Bible, which suggests that Israelites had a shared memory of a name change as part of their history.

 

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Most of the story of the ancient Israelites is a story about a tiny people among other superpowers, trying to maintain their identity and their relationship with God in a polytheistic world of many other competing gods and more successful peoples.

 

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So, in 586 and 587 BCE, some (mostly elite) Jews were exiled to Babylonia. Some Jews also fled to Egypt. This time could be considered the beginning of the Jewish diaspora, a term that comes from the word “dispersion,” meaning the spreading out of Jews across the Middle East, and eventually, the world.

Why didn’t this lead to the end of Jewish history? Part of the reason is that the Israelites believed that God worked through history, even through catastrophes and misfortunes.

The prophet Jeremiah, a very important biblical prophet, criticized his fellow Israelites for not trusting in God fully and for worshipping other gods. But he also promised them that, even though they were being punished through the Babylonian exile, God would call them back to Judea in 70 years (Jeremiah 29:10).

For Israelites of this time, the Babylonians’ destruction of the Temple and exiling of the Israelite elite wasn’t understood to mean that the Babylonian gods had won. Instead, it meant that the God of the Israelites was working through the Babylonians to teach them a lesson.

So, in 586 and 597 BCE, some (mostly elite) Jews were exiled to Babylonia. Some Jews also fled to Egypt. This time could be considered the beginning of the Jewish diaspora, a term that comes from the word “dispersion,” meaning the spreading out of Jews across the Middle East, and eventually, the world.

The Persian Empire and the return to Judea

The Babylonian Empire didn’t last long after its conquest of Judea. As Jeremiah had predicted, about 70 years later, in 539 BCE, the Babylonians were conquered by the Persian Empire.

The Persians pursued a very different policy in how they treated conquered peoples. Rather than exiling elites and attempting to suppress local cultures, the Persian Empire believed that the best way to ensure peace was to restore people to their homelands and help them to live according to their ancestral laws, even giving them money to rebuild their temples.

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The Persian Emperor Cyrus, the only non-Jew referred to as “the Messiah” (or the “anointed one”) in the Hebrew Bible, in Isaiah 45:1,  allowed Israelites to return to the province of Judea. From then on, we find the Israelites called Judeans (eventually Jews) by others. They tend to still refer to themselves as Bnei Yisrael (the descendants of Israel).

These Israelites recognized Cyrus as the King of Kings, but they also continued to live according to their ancestral laws. This era, around 515 BCE, was also when the Torah was written down as a sacred text for the first time. Prior that, it had been transmitted orally, through memorization and recitation, as part of an oral tradition.

 

Jews of the first century, “of every nation”

Philo of Alexandria, the famous Jewish philosopher of the first century CE, described the Jews of the first century this way:

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“For so populous are the Jews that no one country can contain them, and therefore they dwell in many of the most prosperous countries in Europe and Asia, both in the islands and on the mainland.

And while they hold the holy city where stands the sacred temple of the Most High God to be their mother city [meaning Jerusalem], yet those which are theirs by inheritance from their fathers, grandfathers and ancestors even farther back, are in each case accounted by them to be their fatherland, in which they were born and reared, while to some of them, they have come at the very time of their foundation as colonists as a favor to the founders.”

-Philo of Alexandria, Flaccus 46

 

In her analysis of this text (page 79), scholar Cynthia Baker points out that what Philo seems to be saying is that Jews had a hybrid identity, with Jerusalem as their mother city, their metropolis, but their “fatherlands” everywhere. For four centuries, they had been traveling with Alexander and forming residencies in other parts of the world.

So already by the first century CE, Jews seem to be identifying as Jewish and Alexandrian, Jewish and Roman, Jewish and Asian, Jewish and Syrian, Jewish and Macedonian — hybrid identities.

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In other texts, for instance texts of the New Testament such as the Acts of the Apostles, the author, who we associate with the apostle Luke, says, “It happened that there were staying in Jerusalem Jews, pious men, from every nation.” (Acts 2:5)

What does it mean to say that there were Jews from every nation? This seems to recognize that there were many Jews living all over the world who identified as Jews and also as something else.

So, who were the Jews in ancient times? They may have started out as Israelite inhabitants of Canaan. They spread out throughout the Mediterranean and into Asia, united by allegiance to one God, a sense of shared ancestry, a history and distinctive practices.

What has the term “Jew” meant over time?

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In China, for example:

“…anything which is not Chinese is Jewish, at the same time anything which is Chinese is also Jewish; anything which the Chinese aspire to is Jewish, at the same time anything which the Chinese despise is Jewish.”

— Zhou Xun, “Chinese Perceptions of the ‘Jews’ and Judaism” (p.16)

So even in places where there hasn’t been a significant population of Jews, Jews come to stand for all kinds of contradictory things.

 

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As mentioned before, Jews became soldiers in Alexander the Great’s armies and formed their own civic communities in ancient Egypt

 

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While native Egyptians might have also disliked both the Greek immigrants and the Jewish immigrants, it was among the Greek population of Egypt that we find the earliest anti-Jewish writings, where they accuse Jews of separatism and unsociability.

DNA and the Origin of the Jews

Is there a genetic marker for kohanim, priests? Are Ashkenazi Jews descended from Khazars? Why is there such a close genetic connection between Samaritans and Jews, especially kohanim? A look at what genetic testing can tell us about Jews.

Problems with the Study

Almost twenty years later, we know that these early studies can be challenged;

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Almost twenty years later, we know that these early studies can be challenged; even their authors have significantly revised their conclusions. The latest study that I have been able to locate from 2014 calls the entire project into question, challenging how the earlier studies dated the mutation, and cautioning against the use of the haplotype as a marker of any kind of Jewish ancestry.^[4]

Despite such criticism, there is no denying the impact that the original studies had on the public’s perception of such research, and on geneticists’ own hopes for what this kind of research could reveal about the Jews. More recent research has shown that the ancestry of the kohanim themselves is more complex than the earliest studies suggested, reflecting many different lineages that emerged at different points in history—and there is still debate about how to interpret the genetic evidence.

 

https://jewishstudies.washington.edu/who-are-jews-jewish-history-origins-antisemitism/

https://hms.harvard.edu/news/ancient-dna-provides-new-insights-ashkenazi-jewish-history

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1336798/

https://www.thetorah.com/article/dna-and-the-origin-of-the-jews