Islam, the Elite, Numerology, Astrology, Andrew Tate, Reincarnation

[313_Waiter]

A podcast on the above topics.

https://youtu.be/MlBG-K2gBjk

Please share your thoughts.

 

@Eddie Mecca

[Eddie Mecca]

On 8/12/2023 at 6:40 AM, 313_Waiter said:

Please share your thoughts.

I watched an hour of it yesterday night...I'll try finishing it by week's end...thanks for sharing bro...interesting stuff!

[Ashvazdanghe]

I have skimmed it in 2x which main point has been about promotion of neo ottomanism & Turkish Islam which is based on deviated sufism which you can see it in scene of destruction of wahabi mosque in ipetgoat ii so then replacing it with a Turkish style with a Turkish whirling sufi(Dervish)  on top it with one eye which it will be next accepted version of Islam  by global elites as neutralized liberal sufi Islam which promoted numerulogy in video is just Gematria & Cabalism with islamic disguise .

 

Quote

 

 

[313_Waiter]

3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

I have skimmed it in 2x which main point has been about promotion of neo ottomanism & Turkish Islam which is based on deviated sufism which you can see it in scene of destruction of wahabi mosque in ipetgoat ii so then replacing it with a Turkish style with a Turkish whirling sufi(Dervish)  on top it with one eye which it will be next accepted version of Islam  by global elites as neutralized liberal sufi Islam which promoted numerulogy in video is just Gematria & Cabalism with islamic disguise .

 

 

Interesting. Allahu A’lam.

 

So my question is. How can we promote our version of Shia numerology and Imam Khomeini’s Irfan. 
And is this vastly different from Sufism?

 

I may have asked you this before (apologies).

[Ashvazdanghe]

15 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

So my question is. How can we promote our version of Shia numerology and Imam Khomeini’s Irfan. 
And is this vastly different from Sufism?

 

I may have asked you this before (apologies).

Salam it has no problem .

I don't have an immediate answer for it because all efforts about promotion of Shia numerology and Imam Khomeini’s Irfan have been too rare or too weak promtion by some individuals likewise Yahya Christian Bonaud which he has translated some books about Irfan from Imam Khomeini in French which only few people in his university maybe read it which about Shia numerology i only know that Mr.Musa in Kanat Eleyoun has talked about it which he mostly talks for few people with arabic language which previously he has had few english talks about it.

New discovered secrets in the Quran

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVZ1jbv-p9U

 

 

[Muhammed Ali]

1 hour ago, 313_Waiter said:

Shia numerology

How do you determine the validity of numerology? 

Edited August 20 by Muhammed Ali

[313_Waiter]

6 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

How do you determine the validity of numerology? 

From a religious framework, if these teachings come from the Ahlulbayt ((عليه السلام)) then they are valid.

If they do not then they are invalid. 

 

But these do seem to be “esoteric” teachings.

Edited August 20 by 313_Waiter

[Eddie Mecca]

19 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

How do you determine the validity of numerology? 

There has to be something to it (i.e. numerology, gematria)...it cannot all be a coincidence...some examples...the word month “Sahr” is mentioned 12 times, the word day “Yawm” is mentioned 365 times, prayer appears 5 times in the Qurʾān...Qurʾān says, "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was." 3:59 (A. Yusuf Ali translation)...this is a mathematical equation...Jesus equals Adam (and vice-versa)…Jesus is mentioned by name 25 times in the Qurʾān and Adam is similarly mentioned by name 25 times...25 = 25...all this while Muhammad was on the run from the Quraysh...the early Muslims were on the move...being boycotted, being attacked, starved, killed, fighting wars, immigrating to this or that land...sometimes the revelation consisted of a few verses...sometimes entire paragraphs or pages were revealed...sometimes the message was conveyed instantly... other times Muhammad had to wait for the communication...many of the verses were answers or responses to queries or allegations or verbal attacks...and all this was happening in real-time...that type of perfection and symmetry is impossible...the Qurʾān cannot be a byproduct of Muhammad's mind...absolutely impossible...last example:

The word “bahr” (water) is mentioned 32 times in the Qurʾān

The word “barr" / "ard” (earth) is mentioned 13 times in the Qurʾān...both words in Arabic mean “earth”.

If we add the number both words “bahr” (water) and “barr” (earth), we get the number 45.

 (“water” = 32 times + “earth” = 13 times = 45 times)

Now, we’ll do a quick calculation in order to obtain its percentages:

The number of words “bahr” (water) divided by the total number of words “earth+water”, multiplied by 100% gives:

 (32  /   45 )  x 100  =  71,1111%

The total of words “barr” (earth) divided by the total number of words “earth+water”, and multiplied by a 100% gives:

(13 / 45) x 100 = 28,8888%

With this simple equation, we have reached the miracle result that has been present in the Qurʾān for 1431 years, but that has only been recently discovered by scientific data and computer technology.

The percentage of water/ocean on our planet is = 71,1111%

The percentage of land on our planet is = 28,8888%

12 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

From a religious framework, if these teachings come from the Ahlulbayt ((عليه السلام)) then they are valid.

If they do not then they are invalid. 

Anything that is grounded in reality and doesn't contradict Islamic ethics or ʿaqāʾid is valid, allowed, encouraged etc.  

Edited August 21 by Eddie Mecca

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 8/21/2023 at 2:14 AM, Eddie Mecca said:

There has to be something to it (i.e. numerology, gematria)...it cannot all be a coincidence...some examples...word month “Sahr” is mentioned in the 12 times, the word day “Yawm” is mentioned 365 times,

Salam however there is Abjad letters and Numerals & book of Al-Jafr which you can decode these things from shia numerology which Abjad letters are available to everyone but  on the other hand Al-Jafr is a secret book & science which only few people in Hawzas knew about it which it needs learning it from a trustworthy teacher in Hawzas not any frausd on Internet because it's a serious konwledge which only a part of it available to trustwortthy shia scholars which completle knowledge of it will be came by imam mahdi (aj) after his reappearance although we can benefit from this small share of it through a trustworthy scholar .

 

What is the meaning of abjad letters, especially in relation to Imam Ali?

Concise answer

The abjad letters are the alphabet (الف ب ت...), which have been systemized based on a specific order, meaning: abjad, hūz, ḥatī, kalamn, sa'afṣ, qarasht, thakhdh, ḍaẓgh. A number has been assigned for every one of these letters, in following order:

الف 1 ب 2 ج 3 د 4 ه 5 و 6 ز 7 ح 8 ط 9 ى 10 ک 20 ل 30 م 40 ن 50 س 60 ع 70 ف 80 ص 90 ق 100 ر 200 ش 300 ت 400 ث 500 خ 600 ف 700 ض 800 ظ 900 غ 1000.

By using abjad numerals we can calculating the right number of every word, for example, 'Ali (ع ل ی) is calculated through the abjad table as so:ع70+ ل30+ ی10 = 110.

Abjad Letters in Hadith

In some hadith the abjad letters have been recognized as the preface of writing:

1. It has been narrated from Imam Reza ((عليه السلام).): The first thing God created for mankind to learn writing were the m'ujam letters.[3]

2. The prophet of God was once asked about the abjad letters and he said: Learn the science of interpreting abjad letters for it is sheer amazement.[4]

In another section of the book he writes: "Imam 'Ali was the inheritor of the science of letters from God's messenger, subsequently, Imam Hussein, then Imam Zayn al-Abidin, then Imam Baqir, then Imam Sadeq. And Imam Sadeq was the one who dived within the oceans of this science and revealed its secrets and the one who spoke of the science of jafr and letters and discretely write about it and said: Our knowledge is a hidden book on a patulous sheet…that is in the possession of us, Jafr Abyaḍ, Jafr Aḥmar, Jafr Akbar and Jafr Asghar who will all accompany Imam Muḥammad Mahdi at the end of time and the Imam is the only one who knows it (science of letters) complete."[10]

https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/en21391

 

 

Al-Jafr
Al-Jafr . Fatimah al-Zahra
Where can I read the original Mushaf of Fatimah (a) and the al-Jafr text?

https://www.al-islam.org/ask/topics/6423/questions-about-Al-Jafr

[Ashvazdanghe]

• Jafr:^[9] is a book in which future events until the Day of Judgment are mentioned.^[10]
• Red Jafr: is a sack containing the Prophet's (s) weapon.^[20]
• White Jafr: is a sack containing the Torah, the Gospel, the Psalms and other divine books.^[21]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Wadayi'_al-Imamate_(Trusts_of_Imamate)

https://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/jafr

Al-Huruf al-Muqatta'a

Quote

• Numerical interpretation: some Quranic exegetes take the disjoined letters to be signs with symbolic meanings based on the numerical values of Arabic letters, known as "abjad numerals" (in Arabic, "'add abi jad" or "hisab al-jumal").^[34] Influenced by the Jews, they tried to offer numerical interpretations of the disjoined letters in order to predict when governments were established or fell, how long ethnicities and groups would last, and in particular, how long the Islamic nation would last.^[35] To reject such interpretations, Ibn al-Hajar al-'Asqalani appeal to Ibn 'Abbas's prohibition of abjad numerals as a kind of magic, not based in the Shari'a.^[36]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Huruf_al-Muqatta'a

[Muhammed Ali]

10 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

There has to be something to it (i.e. numerology, gematria)...it cannot all be a coincidence...some examples...the word month “Sahr” is mentioned 12 times, the word day “Yawm” is mentioned 365 times, prayer appears 5 times in the Qurʾān...Qurʾān

Sorry I haven't read the rest of your post. First can you prove this because it is the very first thing you mentioned.

List all 12 instances from the Quran where the word month is mentioned. If you can't do that then feel free to show evidence for some of your other claims. 

Just to be clear, I don't believe in numerology.

[Muslim2010]

On 8/21/2023 at 12:35 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam however there is Abjad letters and Numerals & book of Al-Jafr which you can decode these things from shia numerology which Abjad letters are available to everyone but  on the other hand Al-Jafr is a secret book & science which only few people in Hawzas knew about it which it needs learning it from a trustworthy teacher in Hawzas not any frausd on Internet because it's a serious konwledge which only a part of it available to trustwortthy shia scholars which completle knowledge of it will be came by imam mahdi (aj) after his reappearance although we can benefit from this small share of it through a trustworthy scholar .

What is the meaning of abjad letters, especially in relation to Imam Ali?

Concise answer

The abjad letters are the alphabet (الف ب ت...), which have been systemized based on a specific order, meaning: abjad, hūz, ḥatī, kalamn, sa'afṣ, qarasht, thakhdh, ḍaẓgh. A number has been assigned for every one of these letters, in following order:

الف 1 ب 2 ج 3 د 4 ه 5 و 6 ز 7 ح 8 ط 9 ى 10 ک 20 ل 30 م 40 ن 50 س 60 ع 70 ف 80 ص 90 ق 100 ر 200 ش 300 ت 400 ث 500 خ 600 ف 700 ض 800 ظ 900 غ 1000.

By using abjad numerals we can calculating the right number of every word, for example, 'Ali (ع ل ی) is calculated through the abjad table as so:ع70+ ل30+ ی10 = 110.

Abjad Letters in Hadith

In some hadith the abjad letters have been recognized as the preface of writing:

1. It has been narrated from Imam Reza ((عليه السلام).): The first thing God created for mankind to learn writing were the m'ujam letters.[3]

2. The prophet of God was once asked about the abjad letters and he said: Learn the science of interpreting abjad letters for it is sheer amazement.[4]

In another section of the book he writes: "Imam 'Ali was the inheritor of the science of letters from God's messenger, subsequently, Imam Hussein, then Imam Zayn al-Abidin, then Imam Baqir, then Imam Sadeq. And Imam Sadeq was the one who dived within the oceans of this science and revealed its secrets and the one who spoke of the science of jafr and letters and discretely write about it and said: Our knowledge is a hidden book on a patulous sheet…that is in the possession of us, Jafr Abyaḍ, Jafr Aḥmar, Jafr Akbar and Jafr Asghar who will all accompany Imam Muḥammad Mahdi at the end of time and the Imam is the only one who knows it (science of letters) complete."[10]

https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/en21391

 

 

Al-Jafr
Al-Jafr . Fatimah al-Zahra
Where can I read the original Mushaf of Fatimah (a) and the al-Jafr text?

https://www.al-islam.org/ask/topics/6423/questions-about-Al-Jafr

I would have not accepted the importance of numerology ie knowledge based on numbers if I do not have the following two evidences:

1- The verses of Quran:

Quran asks us to give a thought on the verses of quran. The verses can be quoted for it like:

أَفَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ أَمْ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبٍ أَقْفَالُهَا

Will they then not ponder on the Qur’ān, or are there locks on their hearts? (47:24)

كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ إِلَيْكَ مُبَارَكٌ لِّيَدَّبَّرُوا آيَاتِهِ وَلِيَتَذَكَّرَ أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ

(It is) a Book We have revealed to you abounding in good that they may ponder over its verses, and that those endowed with understanding may be mindful. (38:29)

The above verses do not exclude any numerology ie knowledge of numbers to understand the truth exhibited by the verses of quran in addition to its language and script.

2- The famous hadith of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم):

Hadith of the prophet mentions that He is the city of Knowlege and Ali (عليه السلام). is its door. The hadith does not exclude any Knowlege of numbers or nemerology  to get the truth in the religion.

My view is clear to use the numerical analysis of the verses of Quran in addition to explore the meaning of its script and language as the Quran is the Book of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and it is never separated from the Ahl alabayt ie progeny of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)

Wasalam

[Abu Nur]

Quote

The above verses do not exclude any numerology ie knowledge of numbers to understand the truth exhibited by the verses of quran in addition to its language and script.

Actually with that same reason you can invent different subjects and say that the verse do not exclude it. What I understand from the verse is that it means rather about thinking on "message and it's meaning". The hypocrites used to listen Qur'an but not actually deeply understand the message itself.

I really don't know about numerology of Qur'an certainty. There is some critical works against it that I need to see if there is any validity on it:

- Rasm Al-Mushaf wal-I'jaaz Al-‘Adadi: a critical study in the books of numerical miracles in the Quran by Dr. Ashraf Abdur Razzaaq Qutnah.

- Naqd Da‘wah Al-I‘jaaz Al-‘Adadi fil-Quran Al-Kareem (Criticism of the claim of numerical miracles in the Quran) by Professor Ibraaheem Al-Humaydhi.

[Ashvazdanghe]

NUMERICAL MIRACLES OF THE QURAN

https://quran.al-shia.org/en/sciences/the-qur'an,-a-miracle/numerical-miracles-of-the-quran.htm

Lesson 9: The Science of the Miracles of the Qur’an

https://www.al-islam.org/sciences-quran-uloom-al-quran-mansour-leghaei/lesson-9-science-miracles-quran

Scientific Miracle of the Qur'an

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Scientific_Miracle_of_the_Qur'an

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235018885-scientific-miracles-in-the-quran/

 

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/84405-numerical-miracles-of-the-quran/

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235003953-what-are-some-of-the-qurans-miracles/

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234988059-numerical-miracles-of-the-12-imams/

[Muslim2010]

6 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Actually with that same reason you can invent different subjects and say that the verse do not exclude it. What I understand from the verse is that it means rather about thinking on "message and it's meaning". 

Thanks brother for your response.

1. I do not agree to your words for inventing something different. I carry out research in addition to the meaning mentioned in its Arabic text and script nothing beyond the limits defined therein.

2.   Thinking on its message does not put a limit to stop at its structured script by using its numerical form or miracle present in it.

You might have seen my already presented threads in this forum,  that are sufficient for me to carry out this work. I  quote one example for the verse of purification from its structured Arabic text and its Numerics:

9. *** آية التطهير ***

" إنما يريد الله ليذهب عنكم الرجس أهل البيت ويطهركم تطهيرا"

The arabic text provides the evidence that the text has been structured using exactly 14 Alphabets that have dots.

The  number of alphabets / letters in verse of purification is 47 as mentioned below:

ا ن م ا ی ر ی  د ا ل ل ہ ل ی ز ہ ب ع ن ک م ا ل ر ج س ا ہ ل  ا ل  ب ی ت و ی ط ہ ر ک م ت ط ہ ی ر ا.

Now  we calculate the number of alphabets/letters in the names of Ahl al-Bayt (p) and they are:

علي = 3 حروف (ع ل ی)

فاطمة = 5 حروف (ف ا ط م ہ )

حسن = 3 حروف (ح س ن)

حسين = 4 حروف (ح س ی ن)

علي = 3 حروف (ع ل ی)

محمد = 4 حروف (م ح م د)

جعفر = 4 حروف (ج ع ف ر)

موسى = 4 حروف (م و س ی)

علي = 3 حروف (ع ل ی)

محمد = 4 حروف (م ح م د)

علي = 3 حروف (ع ل ی)

حسن = 3 حروف (ح س ن)

محمد = 4 حروف (م ح م د)

المجموع 47

10.- If we carry on and look the Sura  number 47 placed in the Quran every one with receptive mind is surprised to know that the name of this Sura is Muhammad .

 This is the name of the prophet saw thus confirming that the verse of purification has a central place to exhibit the 14 infallibles including the prophet chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). No one else has this respect and virtues.

The above numerical research is based on hadith Thaqlyn and relevant hadith where the names of 12 imams & the daughter of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) have been quoted.

The Quran has one Sura for explaining the specific concept of Tauheed / oneness of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). This is named as Sura Tauheed / Al Ikhlas, it is placed at number 112. It has 4 verses. The Arabic text of these 4 verses is quoted below:

 قُلْ هُوَ ٱللَّهُ أَحَدٌ {١} ٱللَّهُ ٱلصَّمَدُ {٢} لَمْ يَلِدْ وَلَمْ يُولَدْ {٣} وَلَمْ يَكُن لَّهُۥ كُفُوًا أَحَدٌۢ {٤}

The separate alphabets of these verses are given below:

ق ل ہ و ا ل ل ہ ا ح د۔ ا ل ل ہ ا ل ص م د۔ ل م ی ل د و ل م ی و ل د ۔ و ل م ی ک ن ل ہ ک ف و ا ا ح د۔

And another astonishing truth comes here that sum of letters of these verses is exactly  47

11. Further if we take the letters out of 47 letters used in Sura Tauheed the following letters are used in its Arabic text:

ق ل ہ و ا ح د ص م ی ک ن ف

The count of these letters without repetition is exactly 13 which is equal to the number of Infallibles including 12 Imams and the daughter of the prophet Muhammad saww Fatima Zahra SA, from the progeny of the prophet.

Thus proving the connection of Ahl albaayt AS leading towards the Prophet Muhammad saww for the path leading towards true Tauheed of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

wasalam

Edited August 31 by Muslim2010

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 8/31/2023 at 12:03 PM, Abu Nur said:

- Rasm Al-Mushaf wal-I'jaaz Al-‘Adadi: a critical study in the books of numerical miracles in the Quran by Dr. Ashraf Abdur Razzaaq Qutnah.

- Naqd Da‘wah Al-I‘jaaz Al-‘Adadi fil-Quran Al-Kareem (Criticism of the claim of numerical miracles in the Quran) by Professor Ibraaheem Al-Humaydhi.

Salam just for information after a quick research such mentioned resources , i only have found that rejection of numerical miracles in the Quran has been mentioned in Wahabi sites by referring to these two books which it seems writers of these two books have written these two book  under influence of Salafi/Wahabi doctrine which their common justification is that it has not been mentioned in hadiths from companions & etc which it comes to mind that their rejection is based on common  rejection of merits of Ahlubayt (عليه السلام) & disapproving their right for leadership by Wahabists which paradoxically they say that interpretation of holy quran is forbidden but on the other hand they accept interpretation of anyone who has denied right of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) which in similar fashion you can find ridiculous books about miracles of holy Quran which have been published by Wahabistswhich contains  weird images & lunatic things  etc  but on the other hand they reject scientific way of interpretation of holy Quran by numerology & other mathematical procedures . 

[Abu Nur]

On 8/31/2023 at 6:11 PM, Muslim2010 said:

Now  we calculate the number of alphabets/letters in the names of Ahl al-Bayt (p) and they are:

Why did you not include the Prophet in equation when he is part of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام)? It seems like we forcerly include or excluded things to get what we want to get? 

Edited September 4 by Abu Nur

[Abu Nur]

On 9/2/2023 at 10:42 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam just for information after a quick research such mentioned resources , i only have found that rejection of numerical miracles in the Quran has been mentioned in Wahabi sites by referring to these two books which it seems writers of these two books have written these two book  under influence of Salafi/Wahabi doctrine which their common justification is that it has not been mentioned in hadiths from companions & etc which it comes to mind that their rejection is based on common  rejection of merits of Ahlubayt (عليه السلام) & disapproving their right for leadership by Wahabists which paradoxically they say that interpretation of holy quran is forbidden but on the other hand they accept interpretation of anyone who has denied right of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) which in similar fashion you can find ridiculous books about miracles of holy Quran which have been published by Wahabistswhich contains  weird images & lunatic things  etc  but on the other hand they reject scientific way of interpretation of holy Quran by numerology & other mathematical procedures . 

Wa Aleikum Salaam,

Have our Imams (عليه السلام) in authentic narrations ever mentioned numerology of Qur'an? 

Edited September 4 by Abu Nur

[313_Waiter]

2 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Have our Imams (عليه السلام) in authentic narrations ever mentioned numerology of Qur'an? 

Salam, If these are esoteric teachings, would they be explicitly present in authentic narrations?

[Haji 2003]

We have had discussions about numerology before and one poster in particular was very keen on the methodology. AFAIR he tried to see whether the authorities in Najaf would engage with him and I don't think he was successful.

This is an example:

 on

[Abu Nur]

8 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

Salam, If these are esoteric teachings, would they be explicitly present in authentic narrations?

I believe that the foundation/principle is very important to be mentioned.

[313_Waiter]

21 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

We have had discussions about numerology before and one poster in particular was very keen on the methodology. AFAIR he tried to see whether the authorities in Najaf would engage with him and I don't think he was successful.

This is an example:

 on

There was another person “Heliwave” I think

[Haji 2003]

2 minutes ago, 313_Waiter said:

There was another person “Heliwave” I think

Heliwave and aliadams were the same person (AFAIR).

[Muslim2010]

8 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Why did you not include the Prophet in equation when he is part of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام)? It seems like we forcerly include or excluded things to get what we want to get? 

1. The count of Alphabets in verse of purification (Last part of 33:33) is 47.

2. The Sura titled  on the name of the prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has been placed at sr, no. 47 in Quran.

3.  The count of alphabets in names of 12 imams and the name of Daughter of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) Fatima SAA is exactly 47.

4. The count of alphabets in 4 verses of Sura Tauheed / Al Ikhlas is 47. 

Why this is so?  Have these not been truly mentioned in the quran and hadith?

Sorry brother I do not agree with your superficial comments made without giving any thoughts to the  facts in numerical form present in Quran and hadith of the prophet.

Wasalam

Edited September 4 by Muslim2010

[Muhammed Ali]

2 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

1. The count of Alphabets in verse of purification (Last part of 33:33) is 47.

2. The Sura titled  on the name of the prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has been placed at sr, no. 47 in Quran.

3.  The count of alphabets in names of 12 imams and the name of Daughter of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) Fatima SAA is exactly 47.

4. The count of alphabets in 4 verses of Sura Tauheed / Al Ikhlas is 47. 

Why this is so?  Have these not been truly mentioned in the quran and hadith?

Sorry brother I do not agree with your superficial comments made without giving any thoughts to the  facts in numerical form present in Quran and hadith of the prophet.

Wasalam

You can find these types of patterns for almost anything if you are cherry picking and being arbitrary. This is typical of numerologists and extreme conspiracy theories. This is how their brain works.

With a large dataset you are sure to find the number 47 in some places and all you have to do is ignore the other instances which contradict the pattern that you are trying to demonstrate. And you can do that with numbers other than 47.  

Edited September 4 by Muhammed Ali

[Ashvazdanghe]

18 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Wa Aleikum Salaam,

Have our Imams (عليه السلام) in authentic narrations ever mentioned numerology of Qur'an? 

Salam it has been mentioned in above

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Posted August 21

On 8/21/2023 at 10:44 AM, Eddie Mecca said:

There has to be something to it (i.e. numerology, gematria)...it cannot all be a coincidence...some examples...word month “Sahr” is mentioned in the 12 times, the word day “Yawm” is mentioned 365 times,

Salam however there is Abjad letters and Numerals & book of Al-Jafr which you can decode these things from shia numerology which Abjad letters are available to everyone but  on the other hand Al-Jafr is a secret book & science which only few people in Hawzas knew about it which it needs learning it from a trustworthy teacher in Hawzas not any frausd on Internet because it's a serious konwledge which only a part of it available to trustwortthy shia scholars which completle knowledge of it will be came by imam mahdi (aj) after his reappearance although we can benefit from this small share of it through a trustworthy scholar .

 

What is the meaning of abjad letters, especially in relation to Imam Ali?

Concise answer

The abjad letters are the alphabet (الف ب ت...), which have been systemized based on a specific order, meaning: abjad, hūz, ḥatī, kalamn, sa'afṣ, qarasht, thakhdh, ḍaẓgh. A number has been assigned for every one of these letters, in following order:

الف 1 ب 2 ج 3 د 4 ه 5 و 6 ز 7 ح 8 ط 9 ى 10 ک 20 ل 30 م 40 ن 50 س 60 ع 70 ف 80 ص 90 ق 100 ر 200 ش 300 ت 400 ث 500 خ 600 ف 700 ض 800 ظ 900 غ 1000.

By using abjad numerals we can calculating the right number of every word, for example, 'Ali (ع ل ی) is calculated through the abjad table as so:ع70+ ل30+ ی10 = 110.

Abjad Letters in Hadith

In some hadith the abjad letters have been recognized as the preface of writing:

1. It has been narrated from Imam Reza ((عليه السلام).): The first thing God created for mankind to learn writing were the m'ujam letters.[3]

2. The prophet of Allah was once asked about the abjad letters and he said: Learn the science of interpreting abjad letters for it is sheer amazement.[4]

In another section of the book he writes: "Imam 'Ali was the inheritor of the science of letters from God's messenger, subsequently, Imam Hussein, then Imam Zayn al-Abidin, then Imam Baqir, then Imam Sadeq. And Imam Sadeq was the one who dived within the oceans of this science and revealed its secrets and the one who spoke of the science of jafr and letters and discretely write about it and said: Our knowledge is a hidden book on a patulous sheet…that is in the possession of us, Jafr Abyaḍ, Jafr Aḥmar, Jafr Akbar and Jafr Asghar who will all accompany Imam Muḥammad Mahdi at the end of time and the Imam is the only one who knows it (science of letters) complete."[10]

https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/en21391

 

 

16 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

Salam, If these are esoteric teachings, would they be explicitly present in authentic narrations?

 

[Eddie Mecca]

On 8/21/2023 at 1:56 PM, Muhammed Ali said:

Sorry I haven't read the rest of your post. First can you prove this because it is the very first thing you mentioned.

List all 12 instances from the Quran where the word month is mentioned. If you can't do that then feel free to show evidence for some of your other claims. 

Just to be clear, I don't believe in numerology.

Salaam...I'm not qualified to speak/write on this subject at considerable length...I haven't explored the issue with penetrating depth and insight (as it deserves)...as I hinted or alluded to above...from what little I understand, there seems to be something more going on then meets the initial eye...I could be wrong...Qurʾān is a linguistical miracle, Qurʾān is a scientific miracle, it's also a miracle of prophecy etc....should it be that surprising if a concealed mathematically synchronous code exists within it?...there are dozens of articles online written on this topic...some in favor of the numerical code theory...others written against it...I would have to seriously take some time and study the arguments from both perspectives and come to a conclusion on where I stand and why...most in favor of it seem to have irfani leanings...harshest critics against it are the Salafi ( e.g. Bilal Phillips) or literalist or Ẓāhiryyah types of folks (those who only believe in outward form or what can obviously be perceived by the immediate senses)

Edited September 5 by Eddie Mecca

[Abu Nur]

12 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

1. The count of Alphabets in verse of purification (Last part of 33:33) is 47.

2. The Sura titled  on the name of the prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has been placed at sr, no. 47 in Quran.

3.  The count of alphabets in names of 12 imams and the name of Daughter of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) Fatima SAA is exactly 47.

4. The count of alphabets in 4 verses of Sura Tauheed / Al Ikhlas is 47. 

Why this is so?  Have these not been truly mentioned in the quran and hadith?

Sorry brother I do not agree with your superficial comments made without giving any thoughts to the  facts in numerical form present in Quran and hadith of the prophet.

Wasalam

You did not answer to the question as why did you not include the most important member of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) and you made it just 13?

[313_Waiter]

11 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

You can find these types of patterns for almost anything if you are cherry picking and being arbitrary. This is typical of numerologists and extreme conspiracy theories. This is how their brain works.

With a large dataset you are sure to find the number 47 in some places and all you have to do is ignore the other instances which contradict the pattern that you are trying to demonstrate. And you can do that with numbers other than 47.

That’s fair. But how do we know if we are reading into a pattern vs the pattern being there?

 

Some atheists say the same about the appearance of design in the universe.

[Muslim2010]

5 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

You did not answer to the question as why did you not include the most important member of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) and you made it just 13?

The numeral facts from quran presented in my last post are the valid answer from my side but unfortunately these are being ignored.

1. The Sura titled  on the name of the prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has been placed at sr, no. 47 in Quran. He has been honored by Quran equal to the count 47. 

2.  The count of alphabets in names of 12 imams and the name of Daughter of the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) Fatima SAA is exactly 47. The same is the count of alphabets of the verse of purification. Ahl albayt (عليه السلام) are 13 in count and including the prophet the count becomes 14 which are known as Infallible. 

3.  The Sura that has been placed after Sura Muhammad at sr. no. 61 named as As-saff is the only Sura in quran that has 14 verses. The difference between the 61-47 = 14, that is exactly equal to the count of 14 infallible.

This is  not ordinary mathematics but the reflection of the numerical miracle presented in the verses of Quran but it has been kept hidden in its structured text and script.

wasallam

Edited September 5 by Muslim2010

[Eddie Mecca]

Here's another numerical oddity in the Qurʾān that will flip your lid...I've read this from 3 different online articles written by 3 separate authors (2 Sunni and 1 Shi'i)…again, I would have to confirm their findings firsthand and not depend on hearsay or blind faith...it's possible all 3 authors are lying...the word 'Imam' appears 12 times in the Qurʾān...is this true?...and if that's not enough...dig this...in its pure or singular form 'Imam' is referenced 7 times...in its dual or plural forms its mentioned a further 5 times...can we confirm this?...is this true?...can the Arabic speakers here crosscheck this if they have the software?...so we have the singular form 7 times = Seveners or ʾIsmāʿīlīyah, 5 times plural form = Fivers or our az-Zaydiyyah brothers...both plural and singular combined equals 12 times = Twelvers or ʾIthnā ʿAšariyyah...all three Shi'i groups alluded to numerically 

[Eddie Mecca]

Past SC discussions of 'Imam' cited 12 times in Qurʾān

 

[Eddie Mecca]

On 9/4/2023 at 4:21 PM, Muhammed Ali said:

conspiracy theories

Nūḥ was a conspiracy theorist...THEN IT RAINED! 

Edited September 6 by Eddie Mecca

[Haji 2003]

1 hour ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Nūḥ was a conspiracy theorist...THEN IT RAINED! 

Surely conspiracy theories seek to explain existing phenomena with hypotheses as to the motivations of bad actors (typically). In the case of the Flood, Prophet Nuh (عليه السلام) was making a prediction of what would happen and the person behind that action would be God i.e. a benevolent force.

My blog post has more about this (though not the conspiracy theory aspect):

 

[Muslim2010]

9 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Past SC discussions of 'Imam' cited 12 times in Qurʾān

 The following link may also be seen in addition to those links mentioned in my earlier posts in this thread regarding clarification for 12 Imams from Quran with relevant Numerics:

 

Wasalam

Edited September 6 by Muslim2010