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Can anyone please refute these Sunni claims

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  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, DiefortheAhulubayt said:

The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) died 4 days after the pen and paper can anyone please refute this

Pen and paper episode happened on Thu and the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) died on Monday. That is true. Nothing to refute. I know the next question coming about this :D

Edited by ShiaMan14
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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, DiefortheAhulubayt said:

Salaam I saw a website which refutes other religions and then I saw Shia can anyone please refute these claims First claim Second claim Third claim and the fourth one is they say The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) died 4 days after the pen and paper can anyone please refute this

Salaam Aleikum,

I really don't understand why the first claim can be so confused for people to understand that when we Shia'as refer to Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام), we always mean the purified ones those who have been purified in 33:33 and is also proven by their own sahih hadiths that wives do not include with purified ones:

حدثنا أبو بكر أحمد بن سلمان الفقيه وأبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب قالا : ثنا الحسن بن مكرم البزار ثنا عثمان بن عمر ثنا عبد الرحمن بن عبد الله بن دنيار عن شريك بن أبي نمر عن عطاء بن يسار عن أم سلمة قالت : في بيتي نزلت { إنما يريد الله ليذهب عنكم الرجس أهل البيت } قالت فأرسل رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم إلى علي وفاطمة والحسن والحسين فقال : هؤلاء أهل بيتي

Abu Bakr Ahmad b. Salman al-Faqih and Abu al-‘Abbas Muhammad b. Ya’qub – al-Hasan b. Mukram al-Bazzar – ‘Uthman b. ‘Umar – ‘Abd al-Rahman b. ‘Abd Allah b. Dinar – Sharik b. Abi Nimr – ‘Aṭa b. Yasar – Umm Salamah:

In my house, it was revealed {Allah intends but only to keep impurity away all from you, O Ahl al-Bayt, and to purify you absolutely}. Then, the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, sent for ‘Ali, Faṭimah, al-Hasan and al-Husayn and said: “O Allah! These are my Ahl al-Bayt.

Al-Hakim says:

هذا حديث صحيح على شرط البخاري

This hadith is sahih upon the standard of al-Bukhari.

Imam al-Tirmidhi (d. 279 H) has documented how the verse descended:

حدثنا قتيبة حدثنا محمد بن سليمان بن الأصبهاني عن يحيى بن عبيد عن عطاء بن أبي رباح عن عمر بن أبي سلمة ربيب النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم قال لما نزلت هذه الآية على النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم { إنما يريد الله ليذهب عنكم الرجس أهل البيت ويطهركم تطهيرا } في بيت أم سلمة فدعا فاطمة و حسنا و حسينا فجللهم بكساء و علي خلف ظهره فجللهم بكساء ثم قال اللهم هؤلاء أهل بيتي فأذهب عنهم الرجس وطهرهم تطهيرا قالت أم سلمة وأنا معهم يا نبي الله ؟ قال أنت على مكانك وأنت على خير

Qutaybah – Muhammad b. Sulayman b. al-Asbahani – Yahya b. ‘Ubayd – ‘Aṭa b. Abi Rabah – ‘Umar b. Abi Salamah, the dependent of the Prophet, peace be upon him:

When THIS VERSE {Allah intends but only to keep impurity away all from you, O Ahl al-Bayt, and to purify you absolutely} was revealed upon the Prophet, peace be upon him, in the house of Umm Salamah, he called Faṭimah, Hasan and Husayn and spread a cloak over them while ‘Ali was behind him. Then, he covered them with a cloak. Then, he said, “O Allah! These are my Ahl al-Bayt. So, keep impurity away from them and purify them absolutely”. Umm Salamah said, “Am I with them, O Prophet of Allah?” He replied, “You are upon your place and you are upon a good thing.”8

‘Allamah al-Albani comments:

صحيح

Sahih9

- Here the wife of Prophet (saws) Umm Salamah (رضي الله عنه) ask if she is part of the purified ones, and Prophet denies it.

Yes the wives of Prophet (saws) are part of his Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) but they are not those who are the pure ones.

Edited by Abu Nur
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Posted (edited)
Quote

Cannibalism in Shiism

As for surviving or for any good reason if there is so, does dead human flesh include in following verse?

And why should you not eat of that over which God's name has been pronounced, seeing that He has so clearly spelled out to you what He has forbidden you [to eat] unless you are compelled [to do so]? But, behold, [it is precisely in such matters that] many people lead others astray by their own errant views, without [having any real] knowledge. Verily, thy Sustainer is fully aware of those who transgress the bounds of what is right. al-An’am 6:119

Edited by Abu Nur
  • Moderators
Posted
14 hours ago, DiefortheAhulubayt said:

Oh yes and I forgot the Fifth claim

Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated Anas:

The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet (ﷺ) ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. When the news reached the Prophet (ﷺ) he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron.

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5686

Posted
19 hours ago, DiefortheAhulubayt said:

please refute these claims First claim

Salam!

According to the first claim, since the verses of Sura e Ahzaab are using the feminine pronouns and directly addressing the wives of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), therefore wives must be included in the Ahlul Bayt عليهم السلام for whom verse of purification revealed. 

Answer:

Keeping in view this claim, since these verses are directly addressing the wives of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), that makes the females greater in number than males, so in the verse of purification, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) should have used famine pronouns as well. So lets evaluate the specific portion of verse of purification:

إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا

Now see the pronouns in above portion:

1. عَنْكُمُ : kum here is 2nd person masculine plural object pronoun

2. وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ : kum here too is 2nd person masculine plural object pronoun

It is clear from these masculine pronouns that the group being addressed here contains majority of males. 

Second point was raised about Ayatullah Khoei's opinion and his book was referred there.

Answer: If you look at the question asked from Ayatullah Khoei, you can get the answer. It is specifically about doing "Amr bil ma'ruf was nahi an'il munkar" to the "Ahl", perhaps in light of the verse:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا قُوا أَنفُسَكُمْ وَأَهْلِيكُمْ نَارًا وَقُودُهَا النَّاسُ وَالْحِجَارَةُ

Please note that the term "ahl" also denotes people who share one's race, religion, occupation, etc., as well as "dependants" in the most comprehensive sense of this word. So yes, wives do come under "ahl" and the تأكيد of amr bil ma'roof wa nahi an'il munkar applicable on them too. This doesn't prove that the wives belongs to those "five" persons for whom verse of purification was revealed. 

Lastly, the ahlul sunnah need to see the ahadith present in their own books which clearly mentioning the persons for whom verse of purification was revealed. 

I will try to address the other claims as well as per my ease and availability of time. 

Wassalam!

Posted
22 hours ago, DiefortheAhulubayt said:

Second:

If taraweeh is sunnah, why Umar took the credit for innovating it?

Al-Bukhaari (2010) narrated from ‘Abd ar-Rahmaan ibn ‘Abd al-Qaari’ that he said: I went out with ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allah be pleased with him) one night in Ramadan to the mosque, where we saw the people in scattered groups, one man praying by himself, and another man praying with a group of people following his prayer. ‘Umar said: I think that if I unite these people behind one reciter, it will be better. Then he decided to do that, so he united them behind Ubayy ibn Ka‘b. Then I went out with him on another night, and the people were all praying behind their reciter. ‘Umar said: What a good innovation this is, but what they sleep and miss is better than what they are doing – referring to prayer at the end of the night, whereas the people were praying qiyaam at the beginning of the night. 

Nafilah prayers in Ramadhan are indeed sunnah but praying the nawafil in congregation & naming them "Taraweeh" is an innocation not the sunnah. 

Third:

I can only laugh on this one. How desperate are these people in trying to prove us wrong! 

So wait, let me return their spit to their faces:

وأجاز الفقه الشافعى والزيدى أن يأكل المضطر لحم إنسان ميت بشروط

"It's permitted to eat human flesh in Shafii fiqh and Fiver Shiite fiqh under certain conditinos".

Gad al-Haq, then-grand al-Azhar imam, 16th of Safar, 1400:

1 - أكل لحم الآدمى معصوم الدم أو مباحه بعد قتله محرم شرعا ولو عند الضرورة (forbidden to eat flesh and drink blood of murdered people even if necessary).

2 - أكل لحم الآدمى الميت محرم شرعا إلا عند الضرورة على خلاف فى ذلك بين الفقهاء وبشروط معينة (eating flesh of dead people is forbidden unless necessary as per conflicting opinions of fuqaha).

Fourth:

So what? Those who disobeyed the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and made him angry, and used for him disrespecting words, would receive what they deserve. 

يَوْمُ الخَمِيسِ وَمَا يَوْمُ الخَمِيسِ ؟ ثُمَّ بَكَى حَتَّى خَضَبَ دَمْعُهُ الحَصْبَاءَ ، فَقَالَ : اشْتَدَّ بِرَسُولِ اللَّهِ (ﷺ) وَجَعُهُ يَوْمَ الخَمِيسِ ، فَقَالَ : "‎ائْتُونِي بِكِتَابٍ أَكْتُبْ لَكُمْ كِتَابًا لَنْ تَضِلُّوا بَعْدَهُ أَبَدًا" ، فَتَنَازَعُوا ، وَلاَ يَنْبَغِي عِنْدَ نَبِيٍّ تَنَازُعٌ ، فَقَالُوا : هَجَرَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ (ﷺ) ، قَالَ : "‎دَعُونِي ، فَالَّذِي أَنَا فِيهِ خَيْرٌ مِمَّا تَدْعُونِي إِلَيْهِ

https://sounah.com/hadith/148/

The above is one version, in the other, you will find this:

قال عمر إن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم غلبه الوجع وعندنا كتاب الله حسبنا

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.islamweb.net/amp/ar/library/index.php%3fpage=bookcontents&flag=1&ID=115&bk_no=0

Fifth:

Go and see in Sahih Bukhari, there js a hadith which is mentioning the drinking of camel urine on the order of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم):

The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet (ﷺ) ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. When the news reached the Prophet (ﷺ) he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron.

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5686

Anything else?

 

  • Veteran Member
Posted
On 8/3/2023 at 4:49 PM, DiefortheAhulubayt said:

Oh yes and I forgot the Fifth claim

The following words of first caliph may be seen:

Abu Bakr Once looked at a bird on a tree, then said,

"Well done bird ... You eat the fruits, you stand on the trees and you are not accountable to anybody nor indeed can anybody punish you. I wish I was a tree by the road, and that a camel would come along and eat me. then relieve me with his bowel evacuation ... I wish that I had been all that, rather than a human being."

[Tarikh al-Tabari Page 41]

[Al-Riyadh Al-Nadira, Vol 1 Page 134]

[Kanz al Ummal, Page 361]

[Minhaj as Sunnah, Ibn Taymiyya, Vol 3 Page 120]

Umer Said :

"I wish I was my family's sheep. They would have fattened me up to the maximum. When they were visited by friends, they would have killed me and roasted part of me, and made qadid (meat cut into strips and dried) from the other part of it, then they would have eaten me, and lastly, they would have relieved me with their bowle evacuation ... I wish I had been all that, rather than a human being."

[Minhaj as Sunnah, Ibn Taymiyya, Vol 3 Page 131]

[Hilyat al Awliya, Ibn Abi Nuaym, Vol 1 Page 52]

The above words of caliphs are just sufficient as refutation of such false claims.

  • Advanced Member
Posted
On 8/4/2023 at 5:40 AM, Abu Nur said:

As for surviving or for any good reason if there is so, does dead human flesh include in following verse?

And why should you not eat of that over which God's name has been pronounced, seeing that He has so clearly spelled out to you what He has forbidden you [to eat] unless you are compelled [to do so]? But, behold, [it is precisely in such matters that] many people lead others astray by their own errant views, without [having any real] knowledge. Verily, thy Sustainer is fully aware of those who transgress the bounds of what is right. al-An’am 6:119

Salam just by referring to verse it doesn't became acceptable which this bizare action is totally prohibited in Shia Islam anyway Wahabis have tried to justify it by accusing Safavids to doing .

 

Cannibalism in Shiism
Question

question

Considering the suspicions of the anti-religion channels, I wanted to ask if there is a ruling called cannibalism in the Shia sect.

#Response

Eating human flesh is one of the explicit harams in Islam, whose sanctity has been mentioned in numerous traditions;

Wasa'il al-Shia, vol. 24, p. 104, p. 2, chapter... Prohibition of human meat

وسائل الشیعه ج ۲۴ ص ۱۰۴ ص ۲ باب … تحریم لحوم الناس

The narrations of the above chapter prove that if meat is removed from a human body, whether alive or dead, it is forbidden to eat that meat, in addition to that, the arguments that consider eating dead and dead animals to be forbidden also show the sanctity of Mayta of human dead and dead corpse bodies.

Wasa'il al-Shia, vol. 24, p. 99, chapter 1, the chapter on prohibition of al-Mmayta

وسائل الشیعه ج ۲۴ ص ۹۹ باب ۱ باب تحریم المیته

 

It is clear that this sanctity is due to the many harms and corruptions that exist in this type of feeding, as Imam Reza, peace be upon him, said;

"Everything that corruption is hidden in it and causes harm to the body and soul is considered haram"

Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 100, p. 51

In Kafi Sharif regarding the sanctity of dead meat, Imam Sadiq (peace be upon him) is quoted as saying:

"But no one eats dead and dead corpse  unless his body becomes weak and suffering, it reduces his strength, and cuts off the generation, and the one who continues to do this will die with stroke and death. He dies suddenly.

Al-Kafi, vol. 6, p. 242

 

These corruptions may be due to the fact that the digestive system cannot make healthy and living blood from a dead body, in addition, dead body is a center for all kinds of microbes. Islam, in addition to prohibiting eating dead meat, also considers it impure, so that Muslims completely avoid it. avoid it

Tafsir Nemooneh, vol. 1, p. 585

 

Therefore, eating human flesh, whether alive or dead, is clearly prohibited in Islam, but it is permissible to use dead flesh in one case, and that is when there is an emergency, and for example, a person is stuck in a desert. He has neither water to drink nor food to eat. If this situation continues, he will lose his life, as Allah says;

Quote

He has so clearly spelled out to you what He has forbidden you [to eat] unless you are compelled [to do so]? But, behold, [it is precisely in such matters that] many people lead others astray by their own errant views, without [having any real] knowledge. Verily, thy Sustainer is fully aware of those who transgress the bounds of what is right. al-An’am 6:119

 

Quote

In this way, so that the emergency does not become an excuse and a justification for excessive eating of forbidden foods, he warns with the two words ” غَیْرَ باغٍ” and ” لا عادٍ”that this permission is only for those who do not want the pleasure of eating these prohibited foods, and Do not exceed the necessary amount that is necessary to save from death, (باغ and عاد were originally باغى  and عادى,    from the noun ” بغى”  means to demanding pleasure , and here it means to demand pleasure, and ” عادى”  means It is excessive, that is, exceeding the limit of necessity).

Tafsir Nemooneh, vol. 1, p. 584

Based on this, some jurists have put forward the assumption that if a person is caught in a desert where he is in danger of perishing due to hunger, and he only has a human corpse available, he can eat the flesh of that corpse to meet the necessity and save himself from death. a if, for example, there is a Mehdoor Al-Dam  person  (whose blood may be shed with immunity) in the mentioned desert, he can kill him and eat from his meat  in dgree of survival;

Jawahir al-kalam, Vol. 36, p. 442

This amount of permission is in times of necessity to save lives and it is not a general ruling for all times, and what is meant by Mahdoor Al-Dam in the above fatwa is, for example, a militant infidel who has attacked the land of Muslims and intends to perish Muslims and Muslims has been allowed to defend themselves. They can kill him and it does not include  disbelievers absolutely, as we have explained in the past;

https://t.me/Rahnamye_Behesht/9045

So ;

The forbidding of eating human flesh is clear in Islam and Shiism.

The only exception is necessity and for the preservation of life, and such an exception is emphasized by the ruling of reason, and Allah, who is the head of wises, has ruled that it is permissible to the extent of eliminating the necessity, as Imam Sadiq, peace be upon him, said; "There is no divine prohibition unless Allah has made it lawful for a person who is Distressed."

Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 72, p. 411

So ;

The forbidding of eating human flesh is clear in Islam and Shiism.

https://ipasookh.ir/question/ادمخواری-در-تشیع/

 

  • Advanced Member
Posted
On 8/3/2023 at 3:07 PM, DiefortheAhulubayt said:

Cannibalism is allowed in Wahhabism

    

What is surprising is the belief in such devilish and animalistic acts and the commission of them by some people who appear to be Muslims, who consider themselves separate from other Muslims and ignore the divine commandments regarding the sanctity of shedding the blood of other Muslims and the sanctity of eating impurity. Because corpses and blood and . . In fact, while claiming to be a Muslim, not only have they not smelled the human customs and rules of Islam, but they have easily spilled the blood of their fellow men and women, following the example of the evil liver-eating woman, they are proud from eating hearts, livers, blood, etc of Muslims .

Al-Qurtubi, the commentator of Ahl al-Sunnah, writes under verse 173 of Surah Al-Baqarah (انما حرم علیکم دم و لحم الخنزیر ) according to the words of Imam Shafi'i:

Quote

 یاکل لحم ابن آدم و لایجوز له ان یقتل ذمیا لانه محترم الدم و لا مسلم و لا اسیرا لانه مال الغیر فان کان حربیا و زانیا محصنا جاز قتله و الاکل منه

Imam Shafi'i says: It is possible to eat the flesh of the sons of Adam, but it is not permissible to kill someone who is under the protection of Islam, because his blood is respected, and also the blood of a Muslim and the blood of a captive, because it is the property of others, but if he is a warrior or an adulterer, it is permissible to kill and eat his flesh.
You must also have seen the clip of eating a part of the body of that Syrian Muslim who was killed by a Wahhabi Satanist, this movement and such movements are taken from the Israʼiliyyat in the texts that this misguided sect cites.

Now, with these explanations, can Wahhabism be considered a branch of Islam, or should the beliefs of this sect be considered to originate from the rituals and beliefs of false, vulgar, and misguided satanic sects?

Quote

8156781.jpg

https://www.adyannet.com/fa/news/8525

 

  • Advanced Member
Posted
Quote

The forbidding of eating human flesh is clear in Islam and Shiism.

https://ipasookh.ir/question/ادمخواری-در-تشیع/

coreection

The sanctity of eating human flesh is clear in Islam and Shiism.

addendum (mentioned resources)

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Mayta

Quote

Transmitters of Isra’iliyyat

Among the best known transmitters of Isra’iliyyat traditions is Wahb b. Munabbih (655-732 CE), who lived in the generation after the Sahaba (companions of Muhammad), and who is cited as a trustworthy source for many oral accounts linked to Jewish and Christian traditions. Another well-known transmitter of Isra’iliyyat is Kaʽb al-Akhbār (d. 652 CE), a Yemenite Jew who converted to Islam shortly after the death of Muhammad. He is credited with many oral and written traditions from the Bible and Jewish sources. Yet another is Abdullah ibn Salam, who is described as a rabbi before his conversion to Islam.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israʼiliyyat

 

Quote

Abstract

The topic of Jewish beliefs influencing the Muslim community have existed since the time of the Companions with the name of Israʼiliyyat. The Salafi groups who follow the view of Ibn Taymiyyah are one of the most influential contemporary sects while Ibn Taymiyyah had a magnificent role in forming the Salafi ideology. This research was conducted to answer the following question: Has the allegorical theology of the Salafi been influenced by the Jewish doctrine of God’s corporeality? What role did the Jews play in formation of the Salafi theology?
The hypothesis is that the Salafi allegorical idea is impacted by the cultural influence of the Jews, and the allegorical belief is an imported belief in the Islamic world rather than a genuine one. The research is conducted by a documentary, comparative-analytical approach to prove the hypothesis reaching similarities, evidences, and confessions that indicate Salafi allegorical idea being impacted by the Jewish. The results indicate that, firstly, a definite interpretive exegesis of Jewish beliefs about narrative attributes of God is incorrect. Secondly, the common denominator of the Salafi and Judaic beliefs creates the impression that the Salafi's corporealization theology was originated and impacted by Jewish allegorical theology through acceptance of the Israʼiliyyat. Thirdly, this theoretical convergence could lead to a kind of practical convergence between the Takfiri Salafis and the Zionist Jews.

Keywords

http://pke.journals.miu.ac.ir/article_6057.html?lang=en

http://hadith.riqh.ac.ir/article_13418.html?lang=en

https://www.sid.ir/paper/958724/en

Jawahir al-kalam (book)

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Jawahir_al-kalam_(book)

Wasa'il al-Shi'a (book)

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Wasa'il_al-Shi'a_(book)

  • Advanced Member
Posted
On 8/3/2023 at 6:49 AM, DiefortheAhulubayt said:

Oh yes and I forgot the Fifth claim

Salam this is totally censoring majority of text & mistranslating a few amount of text based on their agenda .

in highlighted part  about abu Jafari it has been said from Amir al Muminin Imam Ali(عليه السلام) : Milk of cow is medicine , he has been asked about  urine of cow , He (عليه السلام) replied : I someone really disasterously(devastatingly) needs for sake of cure with it  so then there is no problem .

Abu Jafari said : Urine of camel is better than it's milk which Allah puts cure  in it's milk .

Ayatollah Khomeni:There is dispute about permisibilty of urine of animals which it's meat [can be] eaten likewise sheep , cow when there is emergency or not emergency which the first is stronger (ie in case of emergency)  as there is no problem in permisibilty of Urine of camel "for the sake of seeking cure."

  • Advanced Member
Posted
On 8/3/2023 at 3:19 PM, DiefortheAhulubayt said:

Fifth claim

Whole of chapter is about benefits of drinking milk which Wahabists only have misused Intertextuality about urine .:hahaha:

 

  • Advanced Member
Posted
On 8/3/2023 at 3:19 PM, DiefortheAhulubayt said:

Fifth claim

in footnote Abu jafari is : Abu Hashim ibn Qasim ibn Isha'q  ibn Jafar ibn Abi Talib al-Baghdadi , Trustwothy (Thiqa) , died in year 261  which at start he has said : I have  heard it from Abu al Hasan (Imam Kadhim ) (عليه السلام) which he said:  in conclusion it's  maybe a weak hadith wich it's reliabelity is just narrating it by Abu jafari which only relalted to importance of camel milk for seeking cure.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Therefore, eating human flesh, whether alive or dead, is clearly prohibited in Islam, but it is permissible to use dead flesh in one case, and that is when there is an emergency, and for example, a person is stuck in a desert. He has neither water to drink nor food to eat. If this situation continues, he will lose his life, as Allah says;

Quote

It seems that it is only permissible when there is emergency and only option. But in general it is haram like pig meat.

Edited by Abu Nur
Guest YaAli
Posted

I have come to realize that Shia-Sunni debates are a waste of time. Know your theology well to advance yourself and be a better momin. Sunnis do not believe in Shia books and Shias don't believe in Sunni books. These debates are all about cherry picking snippets favorable to ones point of view from each others sources. Lets be good to each other and leave the debate to scholars who are trained. Otherwise, you may end up causing more harm than good.

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