Help please brothers only

[Guest user]

if I did ghusl janaba and istibra and some liquid comes out with lust isnt thick and didnt come out with a gush is clear but might smell like semen is it pure?
i suffer from waswas aswell.

[Rohani]

Salaam alaykom 

The istibra of janabah is to urinate for men. If you have liquid that comes out after that and you don't know its semen and it dosent meet the criteria of gushing, laccistude of body,  shawa (lust) and your not sick as example then the rule is it is treated as pure and your not mujib. Let me know if it any other issues you may also message me brother. 

 

According to sayyid sistani translation with added in notes by translator

مسألة 198: الاستبراء بالبول ليس شرطاً في صحّة الغُسل، لكن إذا تركه واغتسل ثُمَّ خرج منه بلل مشتبه بالمنيّ جرى عليه حكم المنيّ ظاهراً، فيجب الغُسل له كالمنيّ، سواء استبرأ بالخرطات لتعذّر البول أم لا، 

إلّا إذا علم - بذلك أو بغيره - عدم بقاء شيء من المنيّ في المجرى.

Rule 198: The ISTIBRA of urination is not a condition for the validity of the GHUSL, however, if a person had not done it before the GHUSL, and after the GHUSL there was a discharge of a doubtful liquid in being the semen (or the post semen pure liquid), then the doubtful liquid will take the ruling of the semen apparently, therefore, he must repeat the GHUSL (for an new JANABAH had happened), even if he had done the ISTIBRA of the (nine) KHARATAAT without the urination (which is ISTIBRAA for urine and not semen), due to not having urine or any other reason.

Unless, if he gained knowledge -through the KHARATAAT or any other means- that no semen was left in the seminal tract, (and the discharged was in no way the semen, thus, the GHUSL would not be obligated.)

 

Comment: Recommended precaution to do istibra - another view is if one is not able to urinate they can do the istibra movements. 

Check with your marja if the istibra movements are sufficant or not. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by Rohani

[Guest user]

11 minutes ago, Rohani said:

Salaam alaykom 

The istibra of janabah is to urinate for men. If you have liquid that comes out after that and you don't know its semen and it dosent meet the criteria of gushing, laccistude of body,  shawa (lust) and your not sick as example then the rule is it is treated as pure and your not mujib. Let me know if it any other issues you may also message me brother. 

walaykom salam

that is all

thank you brother

[Guest user]

1 hour ago, Rohani said:

Salaam alaykom 

The istibra of janabah is to urinate for men. If you have liquid that comes out after that and you don't know its semen and it dosent meet the criteria of gushing, laccistude of body,  shawa (lust) and your not sick as example then the rule is it is treated as pure and your not mujib. Let me know if it any other issues you may also message me brother. 

 

According to sayyid sistani translation with added in notes by translator

مسألة 198: الاستبراء بالبول ليس شرطاً في صحّة الغُسل، لكن إذا تركه واغتسل ثُمَّ خرج منه بلل مشتبه بالمنيّ جرى عليه حكم المنيّ ظاهراً، فيجب الغُسل له كالمنيّ، سواء استبرأ بالخرطات لتعذّر البول أم لا، 

إلّا إذا علم - بذلك أو بغيره - عدم بقاء شيء من المنيّ في المجرى.

Rule 198: The ISTIBRA of urination is not a condition for the validity of the GHUSL, however, if a person had not done it before the GHUSL, and after the GHUSL there was a discharge of a doubtful liquid in being the semen (or the post semen pure liquid), then the doubtful liquid will take the ruling of the semen apparently, therefore, he must repeat the GHUSL (for an new JANABAH had happened), even if he had done the ISTIBRA of the (nine) KHARATAAT without the urination (which is ISTIBRAA for urine and not semen), due to not having urine or any other reason.

Unless, if he gained knowledge -through the KHARATAAT or any other means- that no semen was left in the seminal tract, (and the discharged was in no way the semen, thus, the GHUSL would not be obligated.)

 

Comment: Recommended precaution to do istibra - another view is if one is not able to urinate they can do the istibra movements. 

Check with your marja if the istibra movements are sufficant or not. 

salam,

yes I urinated twice before I did ghusl and did istibra twice

so I am ok? thank you for responding

[Maisam Haider]

1 hour ago, Rohani said:

If you have liquid that comes out after that and you don't know its semen and it dosent meet the criteria of gushing, laccistude of body,  shawa (lust)

I've always thought about this point ....if you don't know it's semen.

Suppose a liquid comes out and it doesn't meet the three criteria but you know it is semen, then you have to consider it semen because you know it is semen. 

My question is....when can a man know it is semen even though it has none of the three criteria. 

What that means is that if a liquid comes out without lust and without gushing out and without causing any lassitude, it will be considered as semen, if you yourself believe it is semen. Why would a man himself believe that a liquid lacking these criteria can still be semen? How can that happen? 

[Ashvazdanghe]

12 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

What that means is that if a liquid comes out without lust and without gushing out and without causing any lassitude, it will be considered as semen, if you yourself believe it is semen. Why would a man himself believe that a liquid lacking these criteria can still be semen? How can that happen? 

Salam it must at least has 2 of three  condition for counting as  semen.

Semen in Men

According to the majority of Shiite jurisprudents, the discharge of semen in a healthy man is accompanied with 3 signs:

• Lust
• Spurting
• Loosening of the body.

If one or all of the signs are absent, the fluid does not count as semen, unless one knows that it is semen in other ways.

Some scholars do not require the third condition, and some scholars believe that if the discharge is accompanied with lust and spurting or spurting and the loosening of the body, it counts as semen. If the man or the woman is sick, the body does not need to be loosened, and if the discharge is accompanied with lust and spurting, it counts as semen.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Semen

[Ashvazdanghe]

Semen

https://www.al-islam.org/ask/topics/12643/questions-about-Semen

[Maisam Haider]

1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

unless one knows that it is semen in other ways.

My question is this..... What are other ways ? 

How can someone know that it is semen in other ways ? 

[Ashvazdanghe]

1 hour ago, Maisam Haider said:

How can someone know that it is semen in other ways ?

Maybe  a microscope or  electronic microscope

[Maisam Haider]

If a liquid comes out without lust and involuntarily, is it semen or not? 

The answer is Yes, it can be semen. 

--------------

Ruling 344. A person becomes junub[1] in two ways:

1. sexual intercourse;

2. ejaculation of semen, whether he is asleep or awake, and whether it is a little or a lot, with or without lust, voluntarily or involuntarily.

https://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2162/

------------

So, if semen can come out without lust and involuntarily and without making the body weak, then when should a man consider such a liquid as semen and when should he consider it something else? 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Maisam Haider

[Ashvazdanghe]

18 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

So, if semen can come out without lust and involuntarily and without making the body weak, then when should a man consider such a liquid as semen and when should he consider it something else? 

Salam it has been defined in Wikishia

Other Fluids

Other than urination and semen, some other fluids also come out of an adult: "madhy", "wadhy", and "wady".

Quote

Madhy

A fluid coming out of the body after a low degree of sexual arousal or flirtation is called "madhy" which is clean and does not invalidate the fast. Madhy is a fluid that is slightly sticky and viscous and usually comes out after sexual arousal (such as seeing an arousing scene, or thinking about it, or seeing and talking to a person of the opposite gender, or having fun with one's wife). If this fluid is not mixed with urine, it is clean and it does not invalidate ghusl and wudu.

Wadhy

"Wadhy" is a fluid that sometimes comes out of the body after the discharge of the semen. If it is not mixed with semen or urine, it is clean and it does not require ghusl.

Wady

"Wady" is a fluid that sometimes comes out after urination and looks like semen, but since it does not have the signs of semen discharge, it does not count as semen, and if it is not mixed with urine, it is clean.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Semen

[Maisam Haider]

I think you have still not understood my question or I have not been able to clarify to you. 

The rule states that semen is that liquid which comes out

1. lust

2. Spurting 

3. Loosening of body 

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Semen

-----

But the other rule is that if a person already knows the liquid that has come out is semen, then he should consider it semen even if: 

1. No lust

2. No spurting 

3. No loosening of body 

The words are: 

ejaculation of semen, whether he is asleep or awake, and whether it is a little or a lot, with or without lust, voluntarily or involuntarily.

-----------

That means a liquid which comes out involuntarily, without lust, without loosening of body is najis and must be considered semen (if the person himself thinks that it is semen). 

So that means whether a liquid is semen or not depends on your own thoughts, what do you think about it......if you think it is semen, then you will become mujnib even if it came out involuntarily, without lust , without making the body weak. 

Now my question is......why would a man ever himself think that he is sure that the liquid is semen even though there was no lust, no loosening of body etc?

It is a man's own view that makes it semen or something else. If he, for some reason believes that it is semen, then nothing else needs to be seen and he should consider it as semen. 

This means that semen can come out : 

1. Without lust

2. Without loosening of body 

3. Without intention 

So the question is......how does one determine that he is reasonably sure that such a liquid is semen? In other words, why would a man consider a liquid like that as semen (because if he thinks it semen, he doesn't need to look for any other criteria)?

If the man is unsure whether it is semen or not, then he has to look at the 3 criteria. But if he is sure that it is semen, then no criteria need to be met. His thought alone is sufficient to make it semen. So...why would a man ever "think" like that ? 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Maisam Haider

[Rohani]

On 7/4/2023 at 11:42 AM, Guest user said:

salam,

yes I urinated twice before I did ghusl and did istibra twice

so I am ok? thank you for responding

Salaam alaykom 

As long as you doubt and/or are not certain it is semen the. Yes your safe 

[Ashvazdanghe]