Living in the west; raising kids in the west - Practical Tips

[hello_0]

Hi Everyone

I have a few questions regarding living in the west (particularly Canada):

1) How do you ensure that you don't fall into difficulty in following Islamic values/teachings? I know its very broad, but I am just looking for some general tips based on your experiences. Of course, specific tips and tricks would be great as well: 'Bulk-up chicken from a halal grocery store if you live far away' , for example.

2) More importantly, how do you ensure that kids have the correct Islamic values inculcated in them? Esp. considering how many schools over there have become - from what I have gathered -  rampant propaganda-machines, thrusting down LGBTQ and what-not down the throats of innocent kids.

3) What are some of the major cities where there's a large Shia population? Does it matter? Would you recommend staying away from less-well known provinces like Saskatchewan/Prince Edward etc..

Thanks all

[Ashvazdanghe]

Salam there are some related threads about Canada which i hope so that it will be helpfull

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Window]

23 hours ago, hello_0 said:

2) More importantly, how do you ensure that kids have the correct Islamic values inculcated in them? Esp. considering how many schools over there have become - from what I have gathered -  rampant propaganda-machines, thrusting down LGBTQ and what-not down the throats of innocent kids.

This is a tough one.

If you live in the West, LGBTQ+ propaganda is a given, especially in Higher Education. I personally fought at university to reduce this type of brainwashing, but to not effect, because unfortunately, this type of propaganda is rampant and some Muslims nowadays even buy into this garbage because they don’t want to seem rude or difficult.

I think it’s better to ensure that your children receive quality education that focuses on the whole student and social-emotional development. Rather than sending your kids to a school ramped with identity politics. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

 

[hello_0]

On 7/3/2023 at 8:25 AM, Guest Window said:

I think it’s better to ensure that your children receive quality education that focuses on the whole student and social-emotional development. Rather than sending your kids to a school ramped with identity politics. 

Any tips to ensure this? Would avoiding public schools altogether and sending them to private ones help? 

[Quran313]

I think if parents be honest, children would be honest too. If parents be appreciative, children would be too. If parents don't fluctuate family peaceful environment, children wouldn't too, if parents, children, and so many other if conditions.

 

Regarding school, I support islamic schools if available AND getting kids marry soon. By soon, I mean asap. They see others having relationship, why not them having Halal relationship?

I'm surprised seeing some parents sending their kids oversease for internship or travel, but when it comes to early age marriage, they degrade their kids personality by saying you're still a kid go and study.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Quran313

[Guest Window]

On 7/6/2023 at 11:25 PM, Quran313 said:

Regarding school, I support islamic schools if available AND getting kids marry soon. By soon, I mean asap. They see others having relationship, why not them having Halal relationship?

 

I fully agree with this. 

Islamic education and getting married young is very important. People get married later and have kids later, which means they fall into sin. 

For instance, I met my ex-husband when I was barely 21. We were together for six years and we got divorced last year. I’m in a much better potion than those who hopped around from boyfriend-to-boyfriend and then settled down at 35. We got married young and divorced young. I got my degree in English, write literary fiction, and now I’m going to attend a teaching credential program soon. Inshallah. And I did this all before the age of thirty. 

I know what I want in life. I want to become a teacher. I got my degree but I didn’t choose the right spouse the first time. The good thing is that I’m young enough to start over if I want a family someday. 

[Quran313]

5 hours ago, Guest Window said:

I fully agree with this. 

Islamic education and getting married young is very important. People get married later and have kids later, which means they fall into sin. 

For instance, I met my ex-husband when I was barely 21. We were together for six years and we got divorced last year. I’m in a much better potion than those who hopped around from boyfriend-to-boyfriend and then settled down at 35. We got married young and divorced young. I got my degree in English, write literary fiction, and now I’m going to attend a teaching credential program soon. Inshallah. And I did this all before the age of thirty. 

I know what I want in life. I want to become a teacher. I got my degree but I didn’t choose the right spouse the first time. The good thing is that I’m young enough to start over if I want a family someday. 

That's the point. When someone marries at young age and the marriage doesn't go well, he/she still has time to fix it at YOUNG age. I mean there would be more opportunities and having time to fix previous mistakes in spouse selection or life changing. The time frame is very important and it would be more difficult when one marries at 35 or later, doesn't go well and wants to change/fix at 40-45.

[kadhim]

44 minutes ago, Quran313 said:

That's the point. When someone marries at young age and the marriage doesn't go well, he/she still has time to fix it at YOUNG age. I mean there would be more opportunities and having time to fix previous mistakes in spouse selection or life changing. The time frame is very important and it would be more difficult when one marries at 35 or later, doesn't go well and wants to change/fix at 40-45.

I can see the young marriage idea if two things are practiced:

1. Tone down the extravagance of weddings so that it’s a simpler, businesslike, no-nonsense affair. Not to say families can’t spend a little money to celebrate the milestone of their kid getting married, just not the 10s of thousands of dollars some people spend in the wedding arms race. It wastes a lot of money at the start, creates a barrier to marriage, and acts as this psychological restraint that makes people stay in something that doesn’t work because of the sunk cost fallacy.

2. Reduce the taboo about divorce. Not to say to take divorce lightly or not to try to make relationships work. But just to be honest that sometimes people make bad decisions, it’s just a bad match, and that’s not some universe rending shame and catastrophe. The people of the early community married and divorced in a no-nonsense way. 

Both will take time for the community to change and will have to be led by people who are not afraid of standing alone and doing things their own way. 

The other alternative is to normalize muta’a as a halal alternative to serial monogamous dating. 

Either approach will require a cultural shift in attitude though. 

Edited July 22, 2023 by kadhim

[Irfani313]

Salam - I agree with all the stress on marriage, but when I ask my kids about marriage, they just say a big eww. What should parents do in that sort of response?
 

And it’s not like we are telling them to marry this or that, or forcing them to marry now, we are just saying be open to it, if an opportunity appears let us know so we facilitate it, don’t make it a goal of the life but at least be open to it as well.. and yet all we hear is a big Eeewwwww..

Here’s what scare us is that a few years later when they may have a bit lesser prospects, they would come ask us to have them married and if things get delayed or God forbid marriage doesn’t go their way, we will be lumped in all those who aren’t doing enough for their their kids to get married.. 

How do you all deal with that? 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Irfani313

[kadhim]

37 minutes ago, Irfani313 said:

Salam - I agree with all the stress on marriage, but when I ask my kids about marriage, they just say a big eww. What should parents do in that sort of response?
 

And it’s not like we are telling them to marry this or that, or forcing them to marry now, we are just saying be open to it, if an opportunity appears let us know so we facilitate it, don’t make it a goal of the life but at least be open to it as well.. and yet all we hear is a big Eeewwwww..

Here’s what scare us is that a few years later when they may have a bit lesser prospects, they would come ask us to have them married and if things get delayed or God forbid marriage doesn’t go their way, we will be lumped in all those who aren’t doing enough for their their kids to get married.. 

How do you all deal with that? 

I think you’re doing what you can do. 
Don’t know how old yours are, but it seems like the younger generation, the ones who are in their teens now, seem content to take their time on the  advancing into adulthood. There are all these stats that the GenZ-ers get driver’s licenses, smoke, drink, take drugs, have sex less than/later than the previous generations did.

I don’t know. Ultimately we don’t own our kids. And at a certain age we kind of have to accept they are functionally adults and need to take responsibility for their own choices. Ultimately we can just offer our help and try to not be part of the problem. 

[Guest commenter]

38 minutes ago, kadhim said:

1 hour ago, Irfani313 said:

I think you’re doing what you can do. 
Don’t know how old yours are, but it seems like the younger generation, the ones who are in their teens now, seem content to take their time on the  advancing into adulthood. There are all these stats that the GenZ-ers get driver’s licenses, smoke, drink, take drugs, have sex less than/later than the previous generations did.

I don’t know. Ultimately we don’t own our kids. And at a certain age we kind of have to accept they are functionally adults and need to take responsibility for their own choices. Ultimately we can just offer our help and try to not be part of the problem. 

Shaykh Jawad Shomali had a 6 part lecture series this Ramadan and its on youtube, and he touches on this, how we can't avoid the environment anymore, and its not about restricting everything. It resonates with your second paragraph a lot.

[kadhim]

6 hours ago, Guest commenter said:

Shaykh Jawad Shomali had a 6 part lecture series this Ramadan and its on youtube, and he touches on this, how we can't avoid the environment anymore, and its not about restricting everything. It resonates with your second paragraph a lot.

Oh. That lecture series sounds useful. I really appreciate him and his father. 

[hello_0]

Glad the discussion has taken this serendipitous turn: Any views on what amount of effort  - on coaxing children to Islamic values - would be sufficient? In other words, when can a parent (if ever?) think, hand-to-heart, that they have done all they could, and now the 'onus' (apologies if its not the most politically correct term here) is on the child (who may be an adult by then!?). 

P.S: On the one hand, all of us our responsible for our own selves. On the other, parents can have substantial influence on their children. Ergo the above question: what would be the sweet-spot?

[Quran313]

22 hours ago, Irfani313 said:

Salam - I agree with all the stress on marriage, but when I ask my kids about marriage, they just say a big eww. What should parents do in that sort of response?
 

And it’s not like we are telling them to marry this or that, or forcing them to marry now, we are just saying be open to it, if an opportunity appears let us know so we facilitate it, don’t make it a goal of the life but at least be open to it as well.. and yet all we hear is a big Eeewwwww..

Here’s what scare us is that a few years later when they may have a bit lesser prospects, they would come ask us to have them married and if things get delayed or God forbid marriage doesn’t go their way, we will be lumped in all those who aren’t doing enough for their their kids to get married.. 

How do you all deal with that? 

I think you did the right thing. You let them know that you're open to marriage at young age, so it's their responsibility to take it serious. You probably can talk to them sometimes from time to time and remind them of the importance of the early marriage, but at the end of day it's their own responsibility to make the move.

[Irfani313]

7 hours ago, hello_0 said:

Glad the discussion has taken this serendipitous turn: Any views on what amount of effort  - on coaxing children to Islamic values - would be sufficient? In other words, when can a parent (if ever?) think, hand-to-heart, that they have done all they could, and now the 'onus' (apologies if its not the most politically correct term here) is on the child (who may be an adult by then!?). 

P.S: On the one hand, all of us our responsible for our own selves. On the other, parents can have substantial influence on their children. Ergo the above question: what would be the sweet-spot? 

 

Try living those values. As long as there is no dichotomy between what parents can do and what kids are allowed to do, I believe you have done your part. 

In our household, we have shown them struggle in the way of Allah, taken them to political causes, exposed them to multi ethnic shia communities, have given them stage and mic to literally say their part in Muharram and other events, have shown them how to take initiative, have kept Jamaat salat at home, Maghrib and Esha is almost always in jamaat and in between we always have a discussion, and we have made them never wear a white collar when it comes to the Aza of Imam Hussain AS, so much so that they are totally at ease sitting on the bare dust for a majlis of Imam Hussain AS. 
 

We are not perfect either, we have Netflix with parent passwords, kids have kids only account, we do listen music occasionally in car, we watch ethnic sitcoms, not Hollywood or Bollywood mostly due to a customary F word or Haram kissing, but we also don’t leave a quality movie pass by. 
 

And we tell them almost every week that it’s in their hands to follow their Deen and we just can’t be a security camera on their heads. 
 

As our first one is heading to college after Summers InshAllah, we have plainly told them we have equipped you with everything, and now it’s your time to practice what you have learned in home and Sunday schools etc. We have turned off all restrictions from the cellphone, and are putting in weekly pocket money in the checking account.. Honestly we are secretly scared and would continue doing Amr bil Maroof from a distance but we have to let go, although our weapon of Dua’ is in really high gear lately for their choice of friendships, marriage, and education/career etc...