Islamic Centre England Closed

[Haji 2003]

Quote

The Islamic Centre of England in London, one of Britain’s biggest Shia mosques, has shut its doors after the Charity Commission appointed a non-Muslim interim manager.  

The Maida Vale centre – which is affiliated to Iran – has been under investigation by the Charity Commission since a vigil for assassinated Iranian general Qasem Soleimani was held there in 2020.

https://5pillarsuk.com/2023/05/26/major-shia-mosque-shuts-down-after-charity-commission-appoints-non-muslim-manager/

[kadhim]

Why does a long-established center for an affluent congregation still depend on foreign funding? Why wasn’t it capable of independence? 

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 5/28/2023 at 3:39 AM, kadhim said:

Why does a long-established center for an affluent congregation still depend on foreign funding? Why wasn’t it capable of independence? 

It has not received any funding from Iran which it has been shut downed just based on a weak accusation through Iranophobic people based on general anti Iran policy of Britain which after accusing a center to affiliation to Iran or hizbullah by weak source likewise MKO terrorists so then officials shut down the Islamic center.

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 5/27/2023 at 7:09 PM, kadhim said:

a long-established center for an affluent congregation

 

Quote

The Islamic Centre of England has been a frequent target of acts of vandalism by members of the British Iranian diaspora opposed to the Islamic Republic. Most recently, police had to intervene on Sunday in clashes between anti-Iran protestors and local Shia Muslims defending the mosque.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20221124-uk-iran-funded-mosque-under-investigation-over-serious-governance-concerns/

So called "the British Iranian diaspora" in report have been members of MKO terrorists who are funding with Canada & America & Britain & Israel which  freedom of speech inside Islamic center has been violated by Britain government  by counting sppeaking about Martyr  Gen Soleimany & criticizing rebels in iran as an excuse for shutting down of Islamic center.

[kadhim]

3 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

It has not received any funding from Iran which it has been shut downed just based on a weak accusation through Iranophobic people based on general anti Iran policy of Britain which after accusing a center to affiliation to Iran or hizbullah by weak source likewise MKO terrorists so then officials shut down the Islamic center.

The Muslim source article Hajji has shared here says it is:

Quote

Founded in 1995, the Islamic Centre of England is run by Ayatollah Ali Khamenei’s representative in the UK, Seyyed Hashem Mousavi, and funded by the Islamic Republic.

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

6 minutes ago, kadhim said:

The Muslim source article Hajji has shared here says it is:

I knew it  which All of islamic centers & mosques in western countries  have been funded by an Islamic coununtry likewise Iran , Iraq or KSA but real matter is violation of freedom of speech by British government just based too weak accusation from MKO terrorists against Iran & Islamic center.

[kadhim]

4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

I knew it

If you “knew it,” then why did you lie before and say the center had received no funding from Iran?  Is it just a reflex for you at this point?

So a great reason to be self-funded and financially and organizationally independent from foreign funding is that it makes you much less vulnerable to government intervention. 

Hopefully someone has learned a lesson from this, though I wouldn’t bet on it.

[Haji 2003]

1 hour ago, kadhim said:

If you “knew it,” then why did you lie before and say the center had received no funding from Iran?  Is it just a reflex for you at this point?

Whether or not it's funded by the IRI should make no difference to anything. Lots of countries around the world fund cultural centres in other countries, but they tend to be run by western countries e.g. Goethe Institut, Alliance Francaise and the British Council.

Obviously, they are a means of projecting soft power.

So it seems to be the case that Western countries can do this and others aren't allowed to have ideas above their station. China's Confucius Institutes have also been having problems:

Quote

Confucius Institutes, the controversial Beijing-backed language and cultural learning centers — most of which were closed throughout the United States after being designated a foreign mission by the State Department — are rebranding and reopening, according to a report by the National Association of Scholars.

https://www.voanews.com/a/controversial-confucius-institutes-returning-to-u-s-schools-under-new-name/6635906.html

 

The following post has more about the use of soft power and cultural imperialism:

 

 

[kadhim]

59 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

Whether or not it's funded by the IRI should make no difference to anything. Lots of countries around the world fund cultural centres in other countries, but they tend to be run by western countries e.g. Goethe Institut, Alliance Francaise and the British Council.

Obviously, they are a means of projecting soft power.

So it seems to be the case that Western countries can do this and others aren't allowed to have ideas above their station. China's Confucius Institutes have also been having problems:

https://www.voanews.com/a/controversial-confucius-institutes-returning-to-u-s-schools-under-new-name/6635906.html

 

The following post has more about the use of soft power and cultural imperialism:

 

 

Well, I’m not really looking to get into it on some sort of ethical level. I’m looking at it from a perspective of “is it smart?” 

Although the question could be asked whether holding services for dead military officials of foreign countries is “on mission” as a religious charitable organization. Does that really have anything to do with the spiritual and charitable needs of the congregation and local community? 
 

I mean, I haven’t read the incorporation papers of the organization, but I somehow doubt it included being an agent of soft power of the Iranian government. 

[realizm]

We should take example from Khojas. 

At least on that matter 

Never heard of that Charity Commission, that's an interesting concept lol. UK is not as free as they all say. Here in France, there is this trend of praising the UK because they are so liberal towards hijab, light up Piccadilly during month of Ramadan and so on... 

[Ashvazdanghe]

11 hours ago, kadhim said:

Although the question could be asked whether holding services for dead military officials of foreign countries is “on mission” as a religious charitable organization. Does that really have anything to do with the spiritual and charitable needs of the congregation and local community?

Salam certainly Martyr Gen Soleimani is not just a dead military official anyway it'not surprising someone likewise you who his mind has been poisoned against Iran & Shia Islam by zionist MSM calls martyrs as just "dead military officials".

11 hours ago, kadhim said:

I mean, I haven’t read the incorporation papers of the organization, but I somehow doubt it included being an agent of soft power of the Iranian government. 

Every embassy of any country or any cultural center of any country in another country under guise of teaching foreign language & etc are agents of soft power of foreigner country in another country but Britain & America & Canada claim that they are guardians & poles of freedom of speech but on the other hand in reality they don't let even an Islamic center has activity between walls of center which Islamic center in Britain doen't do outside of center against Britian & doesn't force audiences inside center follow their mindset which it's speakers  just expressed their ideas without insulting or calling people to do any radical action but British government has shut it down just based on wrong & too weak accusation from  infamous MKO terrorist group which government of Canda as ladog of America has supported MKO terrorists although it calls itself defender of democracy & freedom of speech but just supports infamous terrorist groups which naive people likeise you who their minf hans been poisoned by Zionist msm call martyrs of Islam as just dead military officers.

[Ashvazdanghe]

18 hours ago, kadhim said:

The Muslim source article Hajji has shared here says it is:

 

It's a Salafi & wahabi symapathizer source which people likewise you in similar fashion of Salafis/Wahabis call them as Muslim anyway they feel insecurity because they have received controversial funds  from groups which have recruited  terrorist groups for going to Syria & Iraq as ISIS members .

14 hours ago, kadhim said:

If you “knew it,” then why did you lie before and say the center had received no funding from Iran?  Is it just a reflex for you at this point?

 

These centers have staff who work as officials & keepers likewise Janitors & etc which center needs to pay them which Iran pays their wage because British government doesn't pay anything to them also received funding from Iran is so limited which is just enough for maintenance of Islamic center which other activities likewise miscellaneous work by receiving charity & khums from attendants in Islamic center for Muharam & daily prayer & etc.

14 hours ago, kadhim said:

So a great reason to be self-funded and financially and organizationally independent from foreign funding is that it makes you much less vulnerable to government intervention. 

Hopefully someone has learned a lesson from this, though I wouldn’t bet on it.

You can't any independent organization which levle of funding of Iran is not comparable with funding Zionist centers about Holocaust & wahbi centers which receive funding from Zionists & KSA also British government funds shirazi gropuplet which all of it's staff including Yasir Habib have approved that they recieve fundings from British government for insulting to sunni revered figures & following Britian policy for causing hatred & disunity between Sunni & shia Muslims anyway your problem is just with Iran ,Iran , Iran .

[Ashvazdanghe]

12 hours ago, kadhim said:

Although the question could be asked whether holding services for dead military officials of foreign countries is “on mission” as a religious charitable organization. Does that really have anything to do with the spiritual and charitable needs of the congregation and local community? 

Your problem is not about "the spiritual and charitable needs of the congregation and local community" but on the other hand your only matter your personal hatred against Iran .

[kadhim]

7 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam certainly Martyr Gen Soleimani is not just a dead military official anyway it'not surprising someone likewise you who his mind has been poisoned against Iran & Shia Islam by zionist MSM calls martyrs as just "dead military officials"

So … you do not dispute as a matter of fact that he is a dead foreign military official then. Excellent. Moving on. 
 

7 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

These centers have staff who work as officials & keepers likewise Janitors & etc which center needs to pay them which Iran pays their wage because British government doesn't pay anything to them also received funding from Iran is so limited which is just enough for maintenance of Islamic center which other activities likewise miscellaneous work by receiving charity & khums from attendants in Islamic center for Muharam & daily prayer & etc.

Why would the British government fund a private religious charity? Do you understand how anything works? 

A church in England or Canada or America doesn’t get its operational expenses paid by the government. The congregation chips in their own money and otherwise fundraises domestically to get the money they need, in a self-sustaining way, from their own local community. That’s how it works. 

A congregation that is not capable of doing that deserves to be shuttered, because they don’t care about it enough to keep it going. 
 

6 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Your problem is not about "the spiritual and charitable needs of the congregation and local community" but on the other hand your only matter your personal hatred against Iran .

No. Quite the opposite is the problem here. The problem here is that you elevate political affiliations to a human regime and its key “baseball card” figures up to the level of core articles of faith. 

[Haji 2003]

On 5/28/2023 at 1:09 AM, kadhim said:

Why does a long-established center for an affluent congregation still depend on foreign funding? Why wasn’t it capable of independence? 

 

20 hours ago, kadhim said:

A congregation that is not capable of doing that deserves to be shuttered, because they don’t care about it enough to keep it going. 

You've made the same point twice now and I don't know your basis for making this claim.

Maida Vale is indeed in an affluent part of London, but it also has areas of deprivation and is very close to areas that are not affluent at all. Having been there myself on many occasions in the past, there are many quite ordinary people there.

Here's a list of social housing that shares the same postcode as the centre:

https://uksocialhousing.com/properties/Maida+Vale

Just becase they may not be able to afford a place of worship they should be denied it?

I don't know about Canada but in the UK, for historical reasons, Churches with small congregations and those with larger congregations who attend very infrequently are able to keep going with funds/assets the Church has accumulated over the centuries.

[ireallywannaknow]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CtKE0ORvXnH/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Sheikh Jaffer Ladak's wake up call to shias. Really good short talk on this issue. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

 

 

Shutting Down The Islamic Center of England | IP Talk Show

 

 

On 5/31/2023 at 4:44 PM, kadhim said:

No. Quite the opposite is the problem here. The problem here is that you elevate political affiliations to a human regime and its key “baseball card” figures up to the level of core articles of faith. 

Salam we as Shia muslims don't see martyrs as “baseball card” figures which praising  “baseball card” figures just belongs to American & Canadian society which has no meaning for it for rest of world even in european countries also Canda has a culture of praising dead soldiers in WW II which in similar fashion America has culture of praising veterans of war although they are unfamiliar with martyrdom in way of Allah  which your response just your ignorance about Shia Islam & martyrdom in way of Allah which according to your logic everyone who has been martyred in battles of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) against cursed Mu'awiya likewise Ammar ibn Yasir & Malik Ashtar & rest of loyal companions to Imam Ali(عليه السلام) have been just dead soldiers or “baseball card” figures because Imam Ali (عليه السلام) elevated political affiliations to  a human regime according to mindset of cursed  Mu'awiya .

On 5/31/2023 at 4:44 PM, kadhim said:

Why would the British government fund a private religious charity? Do you understand how anything works? 

A church in England or Canada or America doesn’t get its operational expenses paid by the government. The congregation chips in their own money and otherwise fundraises domestically to get the money they need, in a self-sustaining way, from their own local community. That’s how it works. 

A congregation that is not capable of doing that deserves to be shuttered, because they don’t care about it enough to keep it going.

This can be nominated for poor joke of year which it's clear that all churches in England or Canada or America are dependant to governmental fundings because  fundrising by their members is not enough for running a single church in any of these countries which if they have just relied on domestic fundrising so then all churchs would be closed in all of  England or Canada or America which all  of catholic churchs receive foundings from Vatican bank which is running by Zionists  also other churchs specially evangelist churchs receive funding from Zionist lobby under guise of receiving funds from government of America or fake fundriser which zionists are real funders of all evangelist churchs & missionary around the world .

[Haji 2003]

On 7/1/2023 at 11:24 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

if they have just relied on domestic fundrising so then all churchs would be closed in all of  England or Canada or America which all  of catholic churchs receive foundings from Vatican bank which is running by Zionists  also other churchs specially evangelist churchs receive funding from Zionist lobby under guise of receiving funds from government of America or fake fundriser which zionists are real funders of all evangelist churchs & missionary around the world .

You were doing quite well, I thought until you got to this bit. There's certainly a lot of scope for discussion around the topic of martyrs and heroes, how different societies celebrate them and especially so in a theocracy.

But the end of the post? ... you could have also mentioned the Rothschilds and the Illuminati for the full set.

[Ashvazdanghe]

13 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

But the end of the post? ... you could have also mentioned the Rothschilds and the Illuminati for the full set.

Salam I have written what I have been sure about it which controlling mega resources of wealth in religious centers  have done by zionists which vatcan resources  have been hijacked by house of Borgia which the Rothschilds still not comparable with it  which in similar fashion in Mashhad,Iran a group of Jews have hijacked financial system of management of Imam Reza (عليه السلام) shrine by claiming that they have became Muslims which they have been in charge of it until fall of Pahlavi which after Islamic revolution of Iran they have fled from Iran to America which now majority of Iranian residents of Beverly Hills in America  are them which their story of fake convesion has been mentioned in book of "Esther's Children: A Portrait of Iranian Jews"

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/54427

نفوذ یهودیان در آستان قدس رضوی | قطعه ای تاریک از تاریخ ایران معاصر

The influence (infiltration) of Jews in Astan Quds Razavi A dark piece of contemporary Iranian history

https://www.aparat.com/v/sZxPn

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/iranian-studies/article/abs/esthers-children-a-portrait-of-iranian-jews-houman-sarshar-ed-los-angeles-and-philadelphia-the-center-for-iranian-jewish-oral-history-the-graduate-society-foundation-the-jewish-publication-society-2002-isbn-0827607512-458-pp-1568-illustrations-maps-index/1E256F3C43FB03CD5DEE05FF782A12D9

The Anusim of Mashhad / Jaleh Pirnazar

Quote

Contents include: The Achaemenid period / Mayer I. Gruber -- The prophet Daniel / Ammon Netzer and Parviz Varjavand -- Esther's tomb / Elias Yassi Gabbay -- The status of Jews in the Sasanian Empire / Geo Widenbren -- The Babylonian Talmud / Rabbi Ozer Glickman -- Toward a history of Jewish-Muslim interaction in medieval Iran / Neguin Yavari -- The Safavid era / Vera B. Moreen -- Judeo-Persian literature / David Yeroushalmi -- The impure Jew / Hooshang Ebrami -- Ma alleh / Houman Sarshar -- The Anusim of Mashhad / Jaleh Pirnazar -- From outcastes to citizens : Jews in Q j r Iran / Janet Afary -- Clothing and makeup / Haideh Sahim -- As with Moses in Egypt : alliance Israélite universelle schools in Iran / Faryar Nikbakht -- Zionist activities in twentieth-century Iran / Avi Davidi -- Political life : Jewish Iranian intellectuals in twentieth-century Iran / Shirin D. Daghighian -- Iraqi Jews in Iran / Arlene Dsallalfar -- Languages and dialects of the Jews of Iran and Afghanistan / Haideh Sahim -- Jewish Persian carpets / Anton Felton -- Life's events : birth, Bar Mitzvah, wedding, and burial customs / Leah Baer -- Travels through Iran : a phot journal / Lawrence D. Loeb -- Sports / H.E. Chehabi -- The Pahlav monarchy and the Islamic revolution / David Menashri -- Worlds apart : mothers, daughters, and family life / Arlene Dallalfar -- Eminent Jews of Iran : their contributions to the history and culture of Iran / Neil Kadisha.

OCLC: 50676315

https://www.mullenbooks.com/pages/books/184628/houman-sarshar/esthers-children-a-portrait-of-iranian-jews

[Haji 2003]

25 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam I have written what I have been sure about it which controlling mega resources of wealth in religious centers  have done by zionists which vatcan resources  have been hijacked by house of Borgia which the Rothschilds still not comparable with it  which in similar fashion in Mashhad,Iran a group of Jews have hijacked financial system of management of Imam Reza (عليه السلام) shrine by claiming that they have became Muslims which they have been in charge of it until fall of Pahlavi which after Islamic revolution of Iran they have fled from Iran to America which now majority of Iranian residents of Beverly Hills in America  are them which their story of fake convesion has been mentioned in book of "Esther's Children: A Portrait of Iranian Jews"

 

You do realise that you are taking your argument further away from the main topic here and essentially creating a sub-topic, which merits its own thread.

If you raise new issues, you invite others to respond to them and focus on 19th century Iran rather than present-day Britain. FWIW the links you have given appear to cover the general topic of Jews in Iran and not the specific point you are making.

Can we leave this here without more posts on this set of issues? As I said, create a new topic about it if you want to.