How will the muslim community treat me? Am I a kafir?

[Guest triaswungle]

I was raised a Muslim. I used to be very devout, and I still pray and do everything dont do haram. I no longer hold the Quran to be a revelation, and even if it were, it would not be perfect for all circumstances. I believe that all religions, including Islam, include myths and legends, yet they are maybe inspired by Allah. I therefore believe in Allah, as it is the fitra of all insan, and that there is an afterlife as well as right and wrong. I believe that the Quran, like all other religious texts, is opposed to science and history. The prophets were either dishonest, delusional or had divine inspiration - - all of them. jesus, budda, guru nanak. i think muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was inspired by allah but his religion is flawed in some places. his fiqh is mostly right but his history is fairytales. quran is very genius but not perfect i believe la ilaha illallah aand muhamad rasululah but islam is flawed.

so i ask am i muslim in your opinion? can i marry a muslim, join jamaat namaaz and get muslim burial? i want this because islam is the best out of them deens.

 

[Quran313]

Our opinions doon't matter. I think you need to do investigation and talk to a Faqih about your questions. Asking questions about religion is ok, but being ignorant and raising doubts about religion is not good. You need someone with more in depth knowledge in Islam, and I don't mean a regular scholar or a known speaker. I mean a Faqih like Ayatollah Jawadi Amoli, etc. You can travel to Iran Qum and ask them your questions. Ive seen some converts do that asking questions about religion in Qum Iran.

[Ethics]

6 hours ago, Guest triaswungle said:

I no longer hold the Quran to be a revelation

No you are not considered a muslim. To be considered a Muslim, is to obey the holy messenger and the quran fully 10000% no doubts, no rejection, not pick and choose some. It is beyond contradictory. Islam also rejects religious pluralism in the holy quran. You would not be able to marry a muslim women, for those that leave the boundaries of Islam are apostates. I suggest before you make any conclusions you continue struggling to find the truth because from your post you are very confused and full of contradictions... Yes you can join prayer, but you cannot bury a muslim, it is only done by a muslim who fully believes in Allah, the messenger, and the holy quran to all be divinely revealed, or chosen, perfect.

Truly Truly before you make such grave conclusions, continue struggling and seeking. inshAllah you find your way back. Ask Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to guide you. Read books, seek answers. Wa salaam

[Zaydism]

I think that you're not justified in your conclusions, and I believe that they are a result of misunderstanding coupled with haste. If you would like, kindly share the justifications for your conclusions and we'll see if they withstand scrutiny.

Your initial post itself, with all due respect, is indecisive. You say:

9 hours ago, Guest triaswungle said:

I no longer hold the Quran to be a revelation, and even if it were, it would not be perfect for all circumstances. I believe that all religions, including Islam, include myths and legends, yet they are maybe inspired by Allah.

You then say:

10 hours ago, Guest triaswungle said:

i think muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was inspired by allah

So, which is it? 

You then mention that there are mistakes, what are the mistakes? 

[Ashvazdanghe]

3 hours ago, Ethics said:

No you are not considered a muslim. To be considered a Muslim, is to obey the holy messenger and the quran fully 10000% no doubts, no rejection, not pick and choose some. It is beyond contradictory. Islam also rejects religious pluralism in the holy quran. You would not be able to marry a muslim women, for those that leave the boundaries of Islam are apostates.

Salam having doubt doesn't mean not being muslim which many muslims whether born or new convert may face some doubts during lifetime which it doesn't mean that they are not muslim anymore anyway they must try to find a way to overcome they doubts & reach to certainty which in this case questioner is still is a muslim which has faced doubts.

Imam Reza (عليه السلام) has stated:

"الاِيمانُ فَوقَ الاِسلامِ بِدَرَجَةٍ وَالتَقوَى فَوقَ الاِيمَانِ بِدَرَجَةٍ وَاليَقِينُ فَوقَ التَقوَى بِدَرَجَةٍ وَلَم يُقَسَّم بَينَ العِبَادِ شَيئٌ اَقَلُّ مِنَ اليَقِينُ"

"Faith is one degree above Islam; God-wariness is one degree above faith. Certainty is one degree above God-wariness. Nothing less than certainty is divided among God's believers"2

10 hours ago, Guest triaswungle said:

so i ask am i muslim in your opinion? can i marry a muslim, join jamaat namaaz and get muslim burial? i want this because islam is the best out of them deens.

Salam

"اِنَّ العَمَلَ الدَائِمَ القَلِيلَ عَلى اليَقِين اَفضَلُ عِندَ الله مِنَ العَمَلِ الكَثِيرِ عَلى غَيرِ يَقِينٍ"

"Indeed, a small act based on certainty that is performed continually, is better before God than abundant actions not based on certainty"3

10 hours ago, Guest triaswungle said:

all of them. jesus, budda, guru nanak. i think muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was inspired by allah but his religion is flawed in some places. his fiqh is mostly right but his history is fairytales. quran is very genius but not perfect i believe la ilaha illallah aand muhamad rasululah but islam is flawed.

We don't consider "budda, guru nanak" as prophets although they have been inspired which although prophet Isa/jesus (عليه السلام) has been a prophet but his teachings have been distorted too much anyway none of them are comparable with prophet Muhammad (pbu) which as other prophets hypocrites & his enemies have tried to distort his teachings in similar fashion of teachings of other prophets but because holy Quran has been remained intact & without flaw but hypocrites & his enemies has tried to give false interpretation of it under guise of Islam .

10 hours ago, Guest triaswungle said:

I believe that the Quran, like all other religious texts, is opposed to science and history.

This is  a general statement which you must show it with some examples which general conclusion is totally wrong which history mostly written by fallible people which you can't find any history source without flaws which have been made due to insufficient knowledge of history writers or their bias in favor a party or king or etc  which in similar fashion science is a conditional matter which everytime we may find something opposit of our knowledge that forces us to correct our understanding or leave our conclusion & accept opposite conclusion but generally in holy Quran you can't find anything against rational thinking which everytime by increasing our knowledge in history &other sciences we will have better understanding of it .

Types Of Certainty

Certainty has degrees. These degrees are referred to in the Qur’an as "certain knowledge”, to see with the “eye of certainty" and "certain truth".

https://www.al-islam.org/imam-alis-first-treatise-islamic-ethics-and-education-zainol-aabideen-qorbani-lahiji/7-strengthen

The Youth who Achieved Certainty

https://www.al-islam.org/exemplary-youths-during-early-days-islam-muhammad-ali-chenarani/youth-who-achieved-certainty

 

Certainty Uncovered

Jamal al-Din ibn Yusuf 'Allamah Hilli

Quote

This book, authored by Allamah Hilli, discusses Imam Ali's merits and virtues during the course of his life, before birth and in his years of youth till his last day. The book discusses Imam Ali's physical excellence and superiority demonstrated in different occasions and the numerous honors which Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bestowed him.

 

https://www.al-islam.org/certainty-uncovered-jamal-al-din-ibn-yusuf-allamah-hilli

[Ethics]

7 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam having doubt doesn't mean not being muslim which many muslims whether born or new convert may face some doubts during lifetime which it doesn't mean that they are not muslim anymore anyway they must try to find a way to overcome they doubts & reach to certainty which in this case questioner is still is a muslim which has faced doubts.

Salam dear brother, I dont think the brother has "doubt" in some of the things he said. He stated it in such a confident and certain way, and those things take you outside of islam, do they not? But yes, I do think this brother needs to not just into conclusions because he is truly confused...
 

18 hours ago, Guest triaswungle said:

I no longer hold the Quran to be a revelation,

18 hours ago, Guest triaswungle said:

The prophets were either dishonest, delusional

18 hours ago, Guest triaswungle said:

but his history is fairytales

18 hours ago, Guest triaswungle said:

quran is very genius but not perfect

 

[notme]

If you keep your beliefs to yourself, you will be treated as any other community member.  

If you advertise, people will react, and some are likely to dislike you and your family.  

[notme]

21 hours ago, Guest triaswungle said:

can i marry a muslim, join jamaat namaaz and get muslim burial?

No, but if you are the only one who knows your beliefs, only you will be violating Islamic law, which you don't believe in anyway so it doesn't matter.  If you want to be able to do these things, conceal your disbelief. 

However, it seems it would be an injustice to a wife to present yourself to her as a Muslim when you are not.  Don't hurt other people, please.  

 

 

[Guest triaswungle]

i think must be a kaffir in islam's opinion if i believe that Quran and Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) were imperfectly inspired by Allah. i will call myself muslim and disagree with that part of the quran. i see signs of allah everywhere i gaze. 

I told you Bro ethics, be buried in Islamic manner, not to bury others. i am not a pluralist because i believe that Islam is best faith despite flaws. The issue is that i am required to recite the azan, the Quran, and occasionally the namaz at the mosque while concealing my religious opinions. other religions have good aspects and may even be inspired by Allah, but some are worse. i dont believe rasool did miracles i dont believe musa (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) split sea or even was real nor nuh (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was real. maybe he was i dont know. i think quran is a excellent book but has mistakes. it is from allah in some shape. of what to do. reveal or no?I dont belong with other apostates who completely reject Islam, nor do I belong with Muslims who believe the Quran is 1000% accurate. if I marry Do I express my viewpoint or do I live a lie for the rest of life? Should I Marry Her Without Telling Her???when nobody who is like me can be found. How can I discover a wife who is like me?  And I am not going to wed a weak liberal Muslim who wont care. I don't lean liberal. i want a good muslim wife.

 

like so because I don't want you to change into someone like me, I will not debate any of you or the faqih as you are recommending. Stay a Muslim and enjoy a comfortable life. You are blissfully ignorant and unable to respond to my points ,no alim is.

zaydism I believe that all religions maybe been inspired by Allah, hence there is no contradiction. Some are and some aren't, which may indicate anything. Islam, indeed is. I believe that Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) may have had mythical visions and dreams from Allah, or he may have fabricated things to improve society. In any case, even if he made up, he is a prophet, a leader, a genius, a wise guy, and Allah-inspired. no religion is perfect. 

[notme]

5 hours ago, Guest triaswungle said:

if I marry Do I express my viewpoint or do I live a lie for the rest of life? Should I Marry Her Without Telling Her???when nobody who is like me can be found. How can I discover a wife who is like me?  And I am not going to wed a weak liberal Muslim who wont care. I don't lean liberal. i want a good muslim wife.

I have met others who have beliefs similar to yours.  Do not lose hope and do not decieve anyone.  

[Ashvazdanghe]

9 hours ago, Guest triaswungle said:

I believe that Rasool (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) may have had mythical visions and dreams from Allah, or he may have fabricated things to improve society. In any case, even if he made up, he is a prophet, a leader, a genius, a wise guy, and Allah-inspired. no religion is perfect. 

Salam if he just has had "mythical visions and dreams from Allah " so then others could have these visions too likewise people who have NDE experiences so therefor if prophet (pbu) has fabricated his vision so then other people could do it in similar fashion of him which it would result to writing new Qurans & creating new Islams  in similar fashion of creating cults by frauds .

9 hours ago, Guest triaswungle said:

i think quran is a excellent book but has mistakes. it is from allah in some shape. of what to do. reveal or no?I dont belong with other apostates who completely reject Islam, nor do I belong with Muslims who believe the Quran is 1000% accurate.

If you believe that Islam is best faith but it's fundamental book has mistakes it will be paradoxical which means there will be better religions than Islam which you have not found it yet which in similar fashion arguments with people likewise you , it has be proven that they have mistaken  false interpretation of hypocrites & Islamophobes  likewise evangelist as definition of Islam instead of searching truth from reliable sources.

9 hours ago, Guest triaswungle said:

i dont believe rasool did miracles i dont believe musa (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) split sea or even was real nor nuh (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was real. maybe he was i dont know.

Accepting these miracles are not obligatory which only holy Quran as everlasting miracle is enough which everyone who has tried to show flaws in it has been exposed that has low level of knowledge  besides of biased mindset likewise accusation of evangelist against holy Quran which although of their effort until now nobody & nogroup could bring a verse in similar fashion of a verse in holy Quran anyway what looks like flaw in eyes of some people needs interpretation from pure & reliable source of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام).

[Ashvazdanghe]

 

 

 

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

 

[Zainuu]

On 5/27/2023 at 12:19 AM, Guest triaswungle said:

so i ask am i muslim in your opinion? can i marry a muslim, join jamaat namaaz and get muslim burial? i want this because islam is the best out of them deens.

Assalamualaikum brother,

Muslim is someone who follows Islam (literally in quranic terminology). Wherever you read it. (Surah al Baqarah verse 131 as ref)

Now what does Islam mean? Islam is a way of life 'towards Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and from Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى))'.

Absolute submission to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), absolute security from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and finally absolute peace in the mercy of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

Root word of Islam is 'Salaam' that means peace, security or submission.

So, that stands for that a Muslim is the one who follows this kind of way of life.

 

Going by this definition, I am not a Muslim. But struggling to become one of the muslimeen. And we pray to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for that. So, we are always a struggler on the path of truth unless we reach that state with complete purity.

So, can't say if you are a Muslim or not. But you should definitely do jihad to become one and inshallah all your other questions will be answered like you asked about namaz, burial, marriage etc.