Reasons for Jews to not accept neither Muhammad nor Jesus as Prophets

[Guest Brushstroke]

Ok after my last topic which was Nasara in Quran and questioning if Christians are really People of The Book I'll take the "No Replies" from the topic as The Christian who's arguing on this notion as a fool who has no clue regarding his own history.

I'd like to discuss another topic that I find just as fascinating as my last topic.

I've been reading through the StackExchange website which is pretty similar to Quora on the Jewish answer for why can't Jesus and Muhammad be considered Prophets.

https://judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/33467/among-the-gentiles-why-job-and-bilaam-were-recognized-as-prophets-whereas-muham

What I find oddly fascinating and what sticks out to me personally is that most Jews are OK with accepting Balaam who is a Gentile Prophet that was apparently an Evil Prophet of God from the Jewish Tanakh. The idea of a Prophet of God being Evil at Heart following the ways of Satan doesn't seem believable at first until I read a bit on the WikiShia Website discussing who Balaam is and apparently he is simply a Gentile Scholar from his era of time who knew one of God's Greatest Name and abused it for his own selfish interests against Jacob (Yaqub) & and The Israelites.

What stuck out to me on the StackExchange website are two posts of the following reasons why most Jews can't accept Muhammad and by proxy Jesus as a Prophet of God.

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By Author josh waxman

 

There are many reasons why Muhammad could not have been a true prophet, according to Jewish belief. I'll summarize at the top of this answer and then drill down into particulars.

1. Because of Bilaam's wickedness, as emblematic of the wickedness of gentile prophets, God removed prophecy from the gentiles (Midrash Tanchuma, Balak, siman 1).

2. Muhammad was born too late. Prophecy was taken from the world at the beginning of the second Temple period. (Talmud Yomah 9, Sotah 48)

3. The set of gentile prophets appears to be a closed set, limited to seven at most (Bava Batra 15b). This reflects the idea that prophecy from God is generally restricted to the people of Israel.

4. Muhammad founded a religion which differs greatly in theology and matters of Biblical history from that established by the Torah. Such a contradiction would render a prophet a false prophet. For instance, who was bound by Abraham? Was it Ishmael or Isaac?

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Now to examine each of these in turn, in greater detail.

 

1

According to Midrash Tanchuma, prophecy was explicitly removed from the gentiles in the time of Bilaam. The other gentile prophets, including Iyov, lived about the same time.

 

This midrash reads:

וכל גדולה שנטלו ישראל, את מוצא שנטלו האומות כיוצא בה. העמיד משה לישראל שהיה מדבר עמו כל זמן שירצה. העמיד להם בלעם, מדבר עמו כל זמן שירצה.

ראה מה בין נביאי ישראל לנביאי האומות. נביאי ישראל מזהירין את האומות על העבירות. וכן הוא אומר: נביא לגוים נתתיך. ונביאים שהעמיד מן האומות, נותנים פרצה לאבד את הבריות מן העולם הבא.

ולא עוד, אלא כל הנביאים היו במידת רחמים על ישראל ועל אומות העולם. שכן ישעיה אומר: על כן מעי למואב ככנור יהמו וגו' (ישע' טז יא). וכן יחזקאל אומר: בן אדם שא על צור קינה (יחז' כז ב). ונביאי אומות העולם, היו במידת אכזריות, שזה עמד לעקור אומה שלמה חנם על לא דבר. לכך נכתבה פרשת בלעם, להודיע למה סלק הקדוש ברוך הוא רוח הקדש מאומות העולם, שזה עמד מהם, וראה מה עשה:

My translation:

And every greatness you find that Israel took, the nations took likewise. He established Moshe for Israel, who spoke with him any time he wished. And He established for them [the gentiles] Bilaam, who spoke with him any time he wished.

See the difference between the prophets of Israel and the gentile prophets. The Israelite prophets warn the gentile nations about sins. And so is said [regarding Jeremiah] 'I have set you as a prophet for the nations. And the prophets He established from the gentile nations, they placed a breach to remove people from the world to come.

And not only that, but all the [Israelite] prophets worked via the trait of mercy upon both Israel and the nations of the world, for so Isaiah says, 'therefore my bowels for Moav vibrate like a harp, etc.' (Isaiah 16:11) And the nations of the world acted with a trait of cruelty, for this one [Bilaam] arose to uproot an entire nation for absolutely nothing.

Therefore the parasha of Bilaam was written [in the Torah], to inform why the Holy One, Blessed Be He removed the holy spirit [prophecy] from the nations of the world, for this one arose from them, and see what he did!

 

2

Muhammad, like Minever Cheevy, was born too late. According the the Talmud (Sotah 48b), at a specific point in time, prophecy was removed from the Israelites.

 

In Sotah 48b:

Our Rabbis have taught: When Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi died, the Holy Spirit10 departed from Israel; nevertheless they made use of the Bath Kol.

One can draw a kal vachomer (a fortiori), that if it was removed from Israel, surely it was removed from outside Israel.

In Bava Batra 12b, this is stated about prophets in general:

R. Johanan said: Since the Temple was destroyed, prophecy has been taken from prophets and given to fools and children.

 

3

The list of gentile prophets appears to be a closed set of a maximum of seven. These were all people in the generation of Bilaam. From Bava Batra 15b:

 

Seven prophets prophesied to the heathen, namely, Balaam and his father, Job, Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, Zophar the Naamathite, and Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite.

Bilaam and his father (Beor) lived approximately the same time, and the other characters are from the book of Job, who is chronologically often placed at the same time at Bilaam. The Talmud continues to specify that many some of these were not gentiles, but just had prophesied toward the gentiles. This includes Job, which strips one of your two examples from your list. Another rabbinic position is that the entire book of Job is fictional wisdom literature. While Job the person, and his righteousness, were historical, the events depicted in the book of Job did not occur.

Vayikra Rabba 1:13 also lists many restrictions on gentile prophecy, in terms of its status. And one such restriction is that it ended with the erection of the Tabernacle (Mishkan):

אמר רבי יצחק: עד שלא הוקם המשכן היתה נבואה מצויה באומות העולם. משהוקם המשכן נסתלקה מביניהם, שנאמר: (שיר ג)אחזתיו ולא ארפנו. אמרו לו: הרי בלעם מתנבא?! אמר להן: לטובתן של ישראל נתנבא. (במדבר כג) מי מנה עפר יעקב. (שם ) לא הביט און ביעקב. (שם) כי לא נחש ביעקב מה טובו אוהליך יעקב. (שם כד) דרך כוכב מיעקב. (שם) וירד מיעקב.

Bilaam seems a counterexample but it explains why he was the exception, that he prophesied for the benefit of Israel.

The general trend and assumption of Rabbinic sources then seems to be that even in their days, gentile prophecy no longer existed.

4

Muhammad founded a religion which differs greatly in theology and matters of Biblical history from that established by the Torah.

Such a contradiction would render a prophet a false prophet. Indeed, some Biblical books, by Israelite authors, were going to be tossed out of the Biblical canon for contradicting the Torah. For instance, the Qur'an has Abraham binding Ishmael rather than Isaac:

In the tale of binding (surah 37:99-110) Muhammad identified the son who was to be sacrificed as Ishmael and, indeed, the opinion of the traditionalists were also divided on this subject.

This is not the place to debate differences between Jewish and Muslim theology, and between Biblical and Quranic history. But there is certainly enough for one to argue that they differ.

For all these four reasons, at least, Jews would not have believed that Muhammad was a true prophet.

And

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By Author Nic

Coming in late to the party, so this just comes to reinforce Yishai's answer, but I feel compelled to mention the Rambam's "Iggeret Teyman".

Background: The "Epistle to Yemen" was written by Maimonides back in 1172, specifically to answer the rabbis of the Jewish community in Yemen who were being forced to convert to Islam. There was apparently a self-proclaimed "prophet" who had converted recently Islam and was claiming to be the messiah. The confusion in the community had prompted them to write the Rambam for an answer. The Rambam carefully explains why we do not not accept Islam (or Muhammad as a prophet), and declares this convert to be mad.

The whole Iggeret is worth reading, but Here are some choice quotes:

"Our disbelief in the prophecy of Omar and Zeid is not due to the fact that they are non-Jews, as the unlettered folk imagine, and in consequence of which they are compelled to justify their standpoint by the Biblical statement "from thy midst, out of thy brethren." For Job, Zophar, Bildad, Eliphaz, and Elihu are all considered prophets and are non-Jews."

"Any prophet, therefore, no matter what his pedigree is, be he priest, Levite, or Amalekite, is perfidious even if he asserts that only one of the precepts of the Torah is void, in view of the Mosaic pronouncement "unto us and unto our children forever." Such a one we would declare a false prophet and would execute him if we had jurisdiction over him. "

"If a Jewish or Gentile prophet urges and encourages people to follow the religion of Moses without adding thereto or diminishing therefrom, like Isaiah, Jeremiah, and the others, we demand a miracle from him.... ...However, if the would-be-prophet teaches tenets that negate the doctrines of Moses, then we must repudiate him. "

Basically, as soon as Muhammad claimed that the texts of the Torah are no longer relevant, he is automatically considered by Judaism to be (at best) a deluded individual. At worst, his is a False Prophet, with all the negativity that implies.

I'm curious to see the Muslim (Both Sunni & Shia doesn't matter) Rebuttal to these claims the Jews bring on the table against Muhammad.

What I find highly puzzling to the point of arrogance on the Jewish claim is that some of them believe that God stopped the line of Prophethood after the Destruction of the 2nd Temple at 70 AD. Because of that, Jews have made their minds up that God will never send anymore Prophets to neither the Israelites nor for any Gentiles as a fortiori. From Adam all the way to Isaiah and after the Destruction of the 1st Temple From Jeremiah all the way to Malachi this is the Jews opinion of where the Prophethood ends at Malachi being the Final Prophet for the Children of Israel. All of these claims the Jews are bringing against Muhammad and by proxy Jesus as not legitimate Prophets of God reeks of Pro-Israelite Our Rabbis and Our Tribe are Infallible & Superior Propaganda. Everything has to revolve around Israelites as the Main Protagonists while Gentiles as The Villains can go screw themselves. If a Gentile Prophet doesn't involve the Israelites in any way, then that Prophet is a madman at best and a false prophet at worst. At least Balaam who is an Evil Gentile Prophet of God for the interests of The Jews brought prophecies for the benefit & interests of the Israelites. Such mental gymnastics. Only 7 Gentile Prophets Jews accept and no more afterwards given Balaam's track record.

[Abu Nur]

23 hours ago, Guest Brushstroke said:

Basically, as soon as Muhammad claimed that the texts of the Torah are no longer relevant

Where such a claim is mentioned in Qur'an? 

Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." Qu'ran 2:136

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Torah is still relevant and book of Guidance. If a person convert to Islam then it is enough for him to just follow Qur'an and Hadiths and he does not need to follow Torah and Injeel. This is because Qur'an already included these two revelations and their principles. 

Jews do not have any good excuses to reject Prophet Muhammad (saws). They are too proud of their origin and they want always revelations to be in their favor and concern. Unfortunately because of their scholars inteprations of Torah and Prophets revelations, it is very hard to leave any room for a gentile Prophet. The more problematic problem with jews is that why they reject Jesus who was jew himself? 

Reading Qur'an you will see that it is not anymore Jews centric but as an general message warning and guidance for all humanity. The hour is near and the message must now manifest to all humanity such that in the day of Judgement no one will have any excuse to say that the message never reached them. 

Edited March 27 by Abu Nur

[Guest Brushstroke]

29 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

Where such a claim is mentioned in Qur'an? 

Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." Qu'ran 2:136

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Torah is still relevant and book of Guidance. If a person convert to Islam then it is enough for him to just follow Qur'an and Hadiths and he does not need to follow Torah and Injeel. This is because Qur'an already included these two revelations and their principles. 

Jews do not have any good excuses to reject Prophet Muhammad (saws). They are too proud of their origin and they want always revelations to be in their favor and concern. Unfortunately because of their scholars inteprations of Torah and Prophets revelations, it is very hard to leave any room for a gentile Prophet. The more problematic problem with jews is that why they reject Jesus who was jew himself? 

Reading Qur'an you will see that it is not anymore Jews centric but as an general message warning and guidance for all humanity. The hour is near and the message must now manifest to all humanity such that in the day of Judgement no one will have any excuse to say that the message never reached them. 

Perhaps the reason why Jews reject Jesus as a Prophet despite him being a Jew is due to Jesus coming across as a violator of the Torah throughout the New Testament. Jesus being disrespectful to his mother Mary at Gospel of John 2:1-5 is a clear violation of Exodus 20:12 of honoring ones mother & father. There's also the whole implication of Jesus claiming He and The Father (AKA God) are One according to Gospel of John 10:30 where Jews and their Rabbis (mostly the Pharisaics and Rabbinics) have interpreted this as a clear example of Idolatry proving for their interests for how Jesus tried to destroy The Torah and gave off the impression him being a False Prophet despite being a Jew.

Torah doesn't just mean "The Law" it means "The Written Law". There's also The Oral Law known as The Mishna & The Talmud that serves to interpret and complement the Torah alongside it.

Personally I find both Jesus and Muhammad to be the most hated figures in our current era yet also the most misunderstood as well given how many misinformation there could be about these two individuals. Is it that difficult to understand these two individuals who lived such simple lives and yet have so much hype, love, hatred, and misinformation regarding these two?

[Abu Nur]

1 hour ago, Guest Brushstroke said:

erhaps the reason why Jews reject Jesus as a Prophet despite him being a Jew is due to Jesus coming across as a violator of the Torah throughout the New Testament. Jesus being disrespectful to his mother Mary at Gospel of John 2:1-5 is a clear violation of Exodus 20:12 of honoring ones mother & father. There's also the whole implication of Jesus claiming He and The Father (AKA God) are One according to Gospel of John 10:30 where Jews and their Rabbis (mostly the Pharisaics and Rabbinics) have interpreted this as a clear example of Idolatry proving for their interests for how Jesus tried to destroy The Torah and gave off the impression him being a False Prophet despite being a Jew.

I don't believe these events happened where Isa (عليه السلام) was disrespectful to his mother who is know as siddiqah nor he ever teaches that he and Allah is one. These are late innovations by paul who tried to make his own religion appeal to Romans. It doesn't even make any sense a Jew who is well know of the Torah comes and claim that he is God when in Torah there are many verses that says such a belief is herasy. 

What I believe is that the Jews rejected him because they did not expected such a Messiah to come, they were expecting an Messiah who will get rid of Romans from their land and influence and bring their glory back. 

[Guest Brushstroke]

9 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

I don't believe these events happened where Isa (عليه السلام) was disrespectful to his mother who is know as siddiqah nor he ever teaches that he and Allah is one. These are late innovations by paul who tried to make his own religion appeal to Romans. It doesn't even make any sense a Jew who is well know of the Torah comes and claim that he is God when in Torah there are many verses that says such a belief is herasy. 

What I believe is that the Jews rejected him because they did not expected such a Messiah to come, they were expecting an Messiah who will get rid of Romans from their land and influence and bring their glory back. 

I do understand your sentiment regarding Paul being quite the figure indeed. A Hellenized Roman-born Jew dedicated on his quest to tell the ultimate message of what he thinks Jesus The Christ wanted to portray according to what most Protestants and Evangelicals have interpreted,

"According to Romans 7:1-6 Jesus The Christ practiced the laws of The Torah (All 613 mitzvots) so perfectly that no mere mortal can begin to practice & live up to those laws on the same level as Christ. Because of that Christ died on the cross as a fulfillment of abrogating the laws of The Torah all around so that those who follow Christ are no longer bound by the Torah where Grace (aka forgiveness) through Faith shall prevail as the New Testament for Christians to live under. To Christians, they are dead to The Torah through Jesus The Christ's death"

This of course contradicts what Jews think where Jesus violated practically all of the 613 mitzvots given the New Testament story throughout. Laws and Faith both matter in the long run. You can't favor one over the other.

I wonder if this same line of rationale is justifiable if some Crazy Muslim following Pauline Theology says the same thing regarding Hussain ibne Ali. Hussain ibne Ali's martyrdom served as a fulfillment of abrogating The Shariah Law of Islam so that Muslims be no longer bound by it where Tawbah (Forgiveness) through Faith shall prevail. I'm pretty sure such a Muslim would be shunned and most likely executed for apostasy in a Muslim society for spreading what is really a Pauline message. I wonder if The Muslim equivalent of The Anti-Christ (AKA Dajjal) would use the same tactic as Paul did?

I'm beginning to understand why Paul's theology is not only controversial being diametrically opposed to The Torah to the point of a Self-Loathing Jew, but also liberating for Gentiles in terms of seeking God's forgiveness for their lawlessness. I mean I know that in Islam God is All-Forgiving, but I'm beginning to understand that most Islamic scholars like to downplay on that particular attribute of God in favor of other attributes such His Wrath, and All-Just nature given how the term "All-Forgiving" can come across as a means of Humanity abusing this attribute of God. Thus, giving off the impression that maybe God is not quite All-Forgiving as His Forgiveness has criterias for us to follow through which impose limitations for Him to forgive.

Thank you for your input though. It is helpful what Muslims think regarding the story of Jesus being expressed throughout The New Testament.

[Silas]

Good discussion, but I have to ask:

what does "Gentile" really mean? If we say that such a person is not a cultural and theological Jew, we might be able to claim the Prophet is a "Gentile"

But the Prophet was Arab, and Semitic --he was not Chinese or Celt. 

From my very limited perspective, it seems that Jews want to use a very narrow definition of Gentile to claim that prophets beyond the Second Temple period are impossible.

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 4/23/2023 at 2:38 AM, Silas said:

Good discussion, but I have to ask:

what does "Gentile" really mean? If we say that such a person is not a cultural and theological Jew, we might be able to claim the Prophet is a "Gentile"

But the Prophet was Arab, and Semitic --he was not Chinese or Celt. 

From my very limited perspective, it seems that Jews want to use a very narrow definition of Gentile to claim that prophets beyond the Second Temple period are impossible.

Hi according to Jews anyone who has been born from a jewish mother is a jew which rest of people who have been born  from non jewish mother are "Gentile" even if their father is a Jew which certainly mother of prophet Muhammad (pbu) has not been a Jewish woman so therefore according to "halachah (traditional Jewish law)" , prophet Muhammd(pbu) has been a gentile but on the other hand if a chinese or Celt man marries with a jewish woman so then their child will be a Jewish according to "halachah (traditional Jewish law)".

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According to halachah (traditional Jewish law), Jewish status is determined on the basis of matrilineality; that is, the child of a Jewish mother is a Jew, even when the child's father is a gentile.The offspring of a gentile mother is a gentile, even if the father is a Jew. Prior to the Rabbinic period (70 - 500 CE), we find little trace of the principal of matrilineal descent. The Bible in fact seems to recognize a purely patrilineal descent, regardless of the identity of the mother.

https://www.reformjudaism.org/learning/answers-jewish-questions/how-does-reform-judaism-define-who-jew