Electric Cars

[Abu Hadi]

Just a quick survey to see how many ShiaChat members drive an electric car

Edited March 18, 2023 by Abu Hadi

[Haji 2003]

@Abu Hadi shame there isn't an option about the next car someone will buy, and it might be worth including hybrid as an option. Mine is gasoline, but the next one will be electric.

[Abu Hadi]

Great idea ! I added that as an option. 

[Diaz]

Would love to get one in the future inshallah but they are very expensive.

[Abu Hadi]

They're getting cheaper. My son just got a 2023 Nissan Leaf (4 seater) for a two year lease. His payment is 280 per month which is manageable for him since he doesn't have any other bills, lol. It is actually pretty cool. It has a 190 mile range on a single charge and it charges to 100% in 2.5 hours with the fast charger. It also makes no noise when you start it, which kind of freaked my out at first but now I kind of like it. 

I have no affiliation with Nissan btw and I'm not a car salesman. The prices have come down in the last year. The car new now is around $28,000. It was $35,000 a year ago. So they are coming down and the range is getting longer and recharge times faster. The original leaf only had an 80 mile range. 

Edited March 15, 2023 by Abu Hadi

[Haji 2003]

In the UK the price of the Nissan Leaf Acenta is:

Exchange rate is £1=$1.21

[notme]

I drive a hybrid car and almost never need to refuel because I rarely go farther than 25 miles in a day.  Which poll option do I choose? 

[Meedy]

I drive a gasoline (petrol) car. I am not planning on getting an electric car.

I would like to get a a hybrid car. 

[notme]

12 hours ago, Meedy said:

I drive a gasoline (petrol) car. I am not planning on getting an electric car.

I would like to get a a hybrid car. 

If you live in a place where you can charge at home but there aren't many public charging stations, hybrid is ideal.  Fuel prices volatility is less impactful, but your driving is not impaired by lack of access to charging.  

[Abu Hadi]

1 hour ago, notme said:

If you live in a place where you can charge at home but there aren't many public charging stations, hybrid is ideal.  Fuel prices volatility is less impactful, but your driving is not impaired by lack of access to charging.  

You would choose option 3 or 5 depending on whether you are planning / not planning on getting an electric car. 

The way it's defined, for the poll at least is a petrol (gasoline) car is a car that uses petrol (gasoline). A hybrid uses gasoline (petrol), just in lesser amounts than a non hybrid because it uses the electric motor to power the car in certain situations. An electric car is a car that doesn't use any petrol (gasoline) but only uses it's battery as a power source. 

There are two schools of thought on this, as far as hybrid vs electric. First is that hybrids are actually a better solution to climate change because you don't need to create a new infrastructure (i.e. charging stations) in order to use them and they don't have the 'range' issues that electric cars have. The other school of thought says that pure electric (electric) is better because although they would require a new infrastructure, it is well worth it because it would slow down climate change much faster because they don't have any carbon emissions vs a hybrid that does have carbon emissions, just less so vs a full gasoline car. They also say that electric cars have the potential to become cheaper and easier to maintain (more cost efficient) because they only have one power system (the battery / electric motor) vs hybrids which have two power systems and thus are more complicated, harder to manufacture, and will probably be more expensive to maintain and purchase vs  electric. 

The second school of thought (pure electric) makes more sense to me, but I can see how people can be in the hybrid camp. 

I don't see the infrastructure issue as a huge issue, at least in the West. In the US, Canada, Australia, Europe, and also China the govt and private businesses are building charging stations at a fast clip, like maybe a few hundred per week in each respective country. India / S. America, ME, etc are far behind in this and hybrids might be a better solution for those areas at present. 5 years ago there wasn't any (or maybe one) charging stations where I live. Now I see them at many of the larger stores / shopping centers. There are about 20 within 5 miles of my house. 

The big problem now with charging infrastructure is lack of standardization. A Tesla charger will not work with a Ford or a GM car or a Nissan / Honda. They all have their own connectors and standards. So if you get to a charging station, it may not support your vehicle and you may not be able to charge. They need on standard system, that is international for 110 or Level 1 (for smaller cars), 220 or Level 2 for larger cars, trucks, suvs, 440 or Level 3 for Large Trucks, Semi Trucks. The advantage gasoline has for now is that you put the same gasoline (except if your car runs on diesel) in every car and if you drive a gasoline car you know there is probably a gas station close to you that you can use. Not the same with electric cars, for now. This is the big challenge but I think it will be worked out within the next 5 years. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Abu Hadi

[notme]

@Abu Hadi I live in a suburban east coast area, and there is one charging station near my house and it's close enough that i may as well plug in at home.  I don't know how many are located in nearby urban areas, probably a lot more, but that's not relevant to me because I rarely go in to the cities, and when I do go into any nearby city, my home charge isn't enough to get me there, or barely is, and I never stay long enough to charge up.  

However, I go months between filling up my tank, pretty much only when I go on long trips.  If i owned a fully electric car on the east coast, except Tesla which is absurdly expensive, I'd have to rent a gasoline powered car for trips anyway.  

 

Battery powered cars, both fully electric and hybrid, are terribly polluting and reliant on near-slave-if-not-literally-slave labor.  What we need is less reliance on private cars.  15 minute cities is an idea worth investigating, as well as increased remote work and the four day workweek.  

[Abu Hadi]

1 hour ago, notme said:

@Abu Hadi I live in a suburban east coast area, and there is one charging station near my house and it's close enough that i may as well plug in at home.  I don't know how many are located in nearby urban areas, probably a lot more, but that's not relevant to me because I rarely go in to the cities, and when I do go into any nearby city, my home charge isn't enough to get me there, or barely is, and I never stay long enough to charge up.  

However, I go months between filling up my tank, pretty much only when I go on long trips.  If i owned a fully electric car on the east coast, except Tesla which is absurdly expensive, I'd have to rent a gasoline powered car for trips anyway.  

 

Battery powered cars, both fully electric and hybrid, are terribly polluting and reliant on near-slave-if-not-literally-slave labor.  What we need is less reliance on private cars.  15 minute cities is an idea worth investigating, as well as increased remote work and the four day workweek.  

I fully agree with you regarding 15 minute cities. I actually think the vast majority of people would be in favor of that. But is it practical given the reality we are dealing with. Google (to be accurate the parent company Alphabet) is trying to do this in a suburb of Toronto. The plan is great, walkable cities, bike paths, high quality public transport, etc). It works in a small (few square miles) area that is a greenfield (i.e. it's not already build up). Other than that, it is way to expensive to re engineer large cities like the ones on the East Coast or the West Coast to be like this. We are talking hundreds of trillions of dollars. So that's not practical

We can have this as a goal, but in the interim we need something that is better than what we have now. The range on the newer generation of Teslas are 300 to 400 miles on a single charge and 15 minute recharging times. This is pretty much comparable to filling your car up with gasoline. You do need recharging stations, but like I said this is being done at present although it's not 100% there yet. 

About price, Tesla was talking about a sub 30k car. They haven't announced but Volkswagen just announced this one, which I think is pretty cool, worth checking out for someone who is thinking about making their next car an electric one. 

 

https://www.volkswagen-newsroom.com/en/press-releases/world-premiere-of-the-id-2all-concept-the-electric-car-from-volkswagen-costing-less-than-25000-euros-15625

[notme]

2 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

Other than that, it is way to expensive to re engineer large cities like the ones on the East Coast or the West Coast to be like this. We are talking hundreds of trillions of dollars. So that's not practical

No need to rebuild, just modify slightly.  For example, an abandoned mall or an industrial park could house an entire community.  The only changes needed would be interior.  And public transit could carry people between villages.  

Building new is just greenwashing and is problem, not solution. 

Office commercial areas would need increased water supply only.   Residential areas are as easy as retail or industrial to repurpose. If you run into anyone who is doing this work, let me know, I want to be part of their design team, if I'm at a point in my life that I've got time for it.  

[notme]

I drive a 2018 prius plug in hybrid. It professes a 25 mile range, but I usually can get about 29 miles on a charge.  I walk to the grocery store and my workplace is 6 miles away. Where else do I need to go?

I fill the 11 gallon tank about 4-5 times per year, or after a few trips into a nearby city or one trip to visit my folks in West Virginia. 

[Dubilex]

Electric cars will be used in the future to control people. 

Criticize the government? Your car can be turned off at any time. The government can also remotely program how many miles your car will be allowed to drive. The reason the government and their media stooges promote electric cars is in order to control people's mobility

[Abu Hadi]

2 hours ago, Dubilex said:

Electric cars will be used in the future to control people. 

Criticize the government? Your car can be turned off at any time. The government can also remotely program how many miles your car will be allowed to drive. The reason the government and their media stooges promote electric cars is in order to control people's mobility

? If the govt wanted to get you they could come to your house and arrest you. Why risk hacking into your car ?

[notme]

3 hours ago, Dubilex said:

Your car can be turned off at any time. The government can also remotely program how many miles your car will be allowed to drive. 

You know they can do that with any modern gasoline powered car too. If you're worried about the government controlling your car, you need something from the 80s or earlier, or build your own.  

[Dubilex]

16 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

? If the govt wanted to get you they could come to your house and arrest you. Why risk hacking into your car ?

Do you agree with WEF's agenda?

[Haji 2003]

Electric cars don't seem to be popular in the United States

 

https://www.ft.com/content/2ac68f76-a681-4aaf-be6f-acdc79bbd514

 

This explains what is holding many people back

[matrix]

I wouldn't mind owning an electric car, but I probably wouldn't drive it as much. I've test driven electric cars before, but they're not nearly as enjoyable. I genuinely like driving cars with combustion engines. From Toyotas to Audis. I don't doubt that first world governments around the world will eventually force electric cars down our throats - so until then I shall enjoy my Camry. 

[Al-Hassan]

The new trend now is to invest in an electric vehicle and a Grid-tied PV system. A Grid-tied PV system does not have batteries but instead uses the grid as energy storage bank, which makes them cheaper than traditional solar energy systems that have batteries. So if your solar panels produce excess energy during daylight hours, you can sell this excess energy to the local utility via net-metering. You can then use that excess energy to charge your EV. The upfront costs are high but the whole investment is more cost-effective in the long term because the solar panels can charge your car for free and reduce your electrcity bills. 

[notme]

I have a hybrid car.  

On the east coast, charging stations are not super common.  I can run on battery for my daily commute and local errands, but if I need to travel to another city, I'm going to need to use gas/petrol. 

Cars that have a range that makes travel reasonable are prohibitively expensive.  Even hybrid cars are not cheap.  

Battery power shifts the pollution problem, but does not solve it.  Solutions could include public transit, walkable towns and cities, and increase of telecommuting. 

[Haji 2003]

It was just a matter of time ...

Quote

Toyota says it has made a technological breakthrough that will allow it to halve the weight, size and cost of batteries, in what could herald a major advance for electric vehicles.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/04/toyota-claims-battery-breakthrough-electric-cars

[Irfani313]

Electric cars are another big scam to fleece the people, snake oil, extremely destructive to environment with all the mining goes for the rare earth materials for these highly efficient batteries. Add that the geopolitical dimension on securing the lands and staring wars, feeding MICs of the rich nations to mine the earth.. in their quest of rare earth materials, I’ sure it would end up some odd team finding the wall that Dhulqarnain AS built and releasing of Gog Magog whatever they are!!! 
 

Hydrogen is the ultimate solution for all ills of carbons and batteries. Industry is adapting it, China is aiming for 2050 to be 100% hydrogen industrial, USA is moving along for not to be left behind. Germany and India would sure to follow.

Residential automobile hydrogen isn’t safe enough yet. 
 

Grid tied PVs are big scam too in the industrial world. The cost of a 800MgW unit is closer to $50k while the cost in Asia is in below $5k. It’s a huge parity and those who have access to producers in China are again butchering the consumers. 

[Haji 2003]

... and property?

It occurs to me that an interesting side play on electric cars are properties that currently sit in locations with heavy traffic and whose values are depressed due to the noise and pollution.

Give it a few years, and they should appreciate in value much more than other properties in the locality.

[Abu Hadi]

On 7/4/2023 at 9:57 AM, Irfani313 said:

Electric cars are another big scam to fleece the people, snake oil, extremely destructive to environment with all the mining goes for the rare earth materials for these highly efficient batteries. Add that the geopolitical dimension on securing the lands and staring wars, feeding MICs of the rich nations to mine the earth.. in their quest of rare earth materials, I’ sure it would end up some odd team finding the wall that Dhulqarnain AS built and releasing of Gog Magog whatever they are!!! 
 

Hydrogen is the ultimate solution for all ills of carbons and batteries. Industry is adapting it, China is aiming for 2050 to be 100% hydrogen industrial, USA is moving along for not to be left behind. Germany and India would sure to follow.

Residential automobile hydrogen isn’t safe enough yet. 
 

Grid tied PVs are big scam too in the industrial world. The cost of a 800MgW unit is closer to $50k while the cost in Asia is in below $5k. It’s a huge parity and those who have access to producers in China are again butchering the consumers. 

The problem with hydrogen in cars is that most hydrogen powered cars are actually electric cars that use hydrogen as the fuel source, replacing the batteries. Hydrogen cars use a 'fuel cell' which drives an electric motor. So they are electric cars without the battery. 

The problem is that there are now two systems, i.e. the hydrogen fuel cell system and the electric system on top of each other. From an engineering standpoint this is not ideal because now you have two system for propulsion instead of one and these systems are more complex and therefore more likely to fail (break) at some point. The hydrogen fuel cell system was originally developed because the battery technology was not there yet to give battery powered electric cars long enough range to be practical. This is changing, and I think has changed with new battery technologies such as the new Toyota Battery. See

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-market-next-gen-battery-evs-2026-built-by-new-ev-unit-2023-06-13/

[notme]

This is relevant and cool: https://news.vt.edu/articles/2023/01/science-feng_lin_doe_grant_electic_vehicle_battery.html

 

[Haji 2003]

Charging the cars

There's always a criticism about the lack of charging points. And the billions needed to invest in the infrastructure. A few years ago I mentioned how these (green units on lamp posts) were appearing where I live and now they are in use.

The charging 'capacity' means that it works overnight rather than in minutes, but every street seems to have a few working off the municipal lamp posts. Not my car btw, just a random one I saw.

[notme]

7 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

works overnight rather than in minutes

I bet a person could drive to work, plug in, and have enough charge to drive home.

 

[Ibn Tayyar]

On 3/19/2023 at 10:52 AM, Abu Hadi said:

? If the govt wanted to get you they could come to your house and arrest you. Why risk hacking into your car ?

Although it sounds like a stupid conspiracy, if there was ever a mass protest event in a particular city, the Government may be able to stop people from driving there in the first place, limiting the number of people who can attend.

I remember when there was a protest against highly restrictive Covid measures in Australia, the Governments in certain States made it clear that whoever drives to the CBD (Central Business District) will be heavily fined (up to $100,000) and potentially arrested, and they also set up police roadblocks and checkpoints leading to the CBD's.

Disabling cars can be used as a form of roadblock.

It can also be used in a good purpose, for example disabling the cars of criminals and fugitives. 

[Ibn Tayyar]

On 4/20/2023 at 12:39 AM, Haji 2003 said:

Electric cars don't seem to be popular in the United States

 

https://www.ft.com/content/2ac68f76-a681-4aaf-be6f-acdc79bbd514

 

This explains what is holding many people back

Another reason may be that Americans, together with Canadians and Australians, are heavier users of pickup trucks for both utility and cultural purposes than their European counterparts.

It is only now that electric pickup trucks are starting to enter the market.

[notme]

12 hours ago, Ibn Tayyar said:

heavier users of pickup trucks for both utility and cultural purposes

A town near where I live floods frequently. The people who live there can't use normal cars during the floods - they need high vehicles such as pickup trucks or SUVs to navigate the inundated roads. And, of course, since it's a regular occurrence, they have to get on with life. They can't stay home and wait for the waters to recede.  

[Ibn Tayyar]

9 hours ago, notme said:

A town near where I live floods frequently. The people who live there can't use normal cars during the floods - they need high vehicles such as pickup trucks or SUVs to navigate the inundated roads. And, of course, since it's a regular occurrence, they have to get on with life. They can't stay home and wait for the waters to recede.  

And this shows how environment plays a big part in the people's vehicle choices. 

[Haji 2003]

18 hours ago, notme said:

they need high vehicles such as pickup trucks or SUVs to navigate the inundated roads

This is very much an outlier for people buying these vehicles because they physically need them.

Most purchasers do so because they think minivans etc. look dorky. 

And then you end up with people queuing up at food banks in fairly expensive vehicles:

[notme]

3 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

And then you end up with people queuing up at food banks in fairly expensive vehicles

As a person who used food banks while driving a pretty new car, this sounds like words from someone who has never endured a layoff, death of wage earner, or other sudden life disruption.

Edited September 25, 2023 by notme