Disastrous marriage - need help

[Guest Hussein]

Hi all, I’m a revert to Islam who married into Iraqi family in the West. Me and my wife met online, we kept up for 2 years and I’ve moved across the ocean - leaving behind my entire life; job, family and friends - to literally marry my wife. Our marriage from the onset is a disaster. From religious point of view, my wife does pray daily and fasts in Ramadan, veils properly etc. but this is where it starts and ends. She is non stop rude, disrespectful, not affectionate at all (I don’t remember when last time I was kissed or hugged), she isn’t obedient etc. She doesn’t cook, and her cleanliness standards at home leave a lot to desire. I’ve been fulfilling ALL my Islamic duties; from being loyal, to praying, to fasting, to working non stop, paying for everything, to looking over our two children, cleaning the house, cooking etc. I’ve told my wife if you want to work, you can, if you don’t, you don’t have to. After 5-6 years of not working into our marriage, she went to work and completely dedicated her time to this, as well as full time studying at the University (degree she was meant to get 7 years ago before my arrival), without even asking me. We are married but she lives independent lifestyle without giving me any rights. Our sex life is nonexistent since day one, since my wife has no desire or drive for it starting on our WEDDING NIGHT. What can I do in this situation, I’ve been trying to talk to her and accomodate to her as much as I can in the last 7 years but she just brushes everything off and insults me non stop. She even started trash talking about me to her family and friends. Even in front of children she insults me. I’ve never met a person so void of understanding, affection, or mercy it’s insane. So much for promised religiosity.. What should I do in this case? We have two children together. I’ve already talked to her father (first time after 7 years of marriage), it gave nothing. Showing her Quran, ahadith or the ruling of maraji’, changes nothing. I’m literally married to a sinner in saintly clothes. I’ve never known it will look like this marrying a born Muslim.. 

[notme]

Marriage counseling.  

If she refuses to go, go alone.  

 

Edited March 8 by notme

[Guest Hussein]

8 minutes ago, notme said:

Marriage counseling.  

If she refuses to go, go alone.  

 

You mean Islamic marriage counselling or secular one? I don’t believe either one would of given anything considering that she doesn’t even care about what rights she should give me Islamically, based on the Quran, ahadith or maraji’ fatawas, in the first place. If she brushes off what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) orders, then why would she listen to a layman? 

[Uni Student]

How you put up with that for 7 years is beyond me. Take the advice to go to counseling but in my opinion it’s past the point of saving. Question is whether or not you are willing to bear the marriage for the sake of your children, or seek divorce.

[Dubilex]

This is gonna be very unpopular when I say this, but it is true nonetheless. So flame me all you want. And as a disclaimer, yes, I know that it's not all arabs yada yada bla bla. I'm speaking in general terms

In arab culture, men are expected to be assertive and dominant. Some people call it "toxic masculinity", depending on your point of view. Arab women wants dominant and assertive men who are in charge, who takes the lead. Behaving like a western man is seen as weakness in arab culture, and thus, arab women lose their respect for you and has contempt for you. You may or may not like it, but that's just how it is.

If you had been assertive at the start of the marriage, she would've respected you a lot more. But, after 7 years of this abusive pattern, the roles have been cemented and it's very difficult to change the dynamic. In any kind of mixed marriage, it is of utmost importance to familiarize yourself with the cultural norms of your partner. This is why arab-western marriages so often ends in divorce, since the cultures and gender norms are so different. 

I'm afraid the ultimate solution here will either be divorce, or that you somehow get yourself another wife

Edited March 9 by Dubilex

[Guest Peace]

Salam brother,

There is fear of giving advice in this matter as not just 1 person is affected but many- meaning children. Look, it seems that you have tried everything and this situation is unfair to you. All I know is Allah is fair, and he allowed divorce because of certain cases in life. Yes, the ideal would be to stay in the marriage since you have children and some people choose to sacrifice their whole lives for the sake of their children. But for some it is unhealthy and unwise. Children are influenced heavily by their parents and sometimes, although unfortunate, not all parents are good role models, let alone a good spouse. Religion and piety is more than Hijab and prayers, the factors that influence the hardships in our graves and beyond are how we dealt with people (our parents, families, did we backbite? did we hurt? etc). If you are looking for justification for divorce, you don't need it. Give her a final warning and tell her, if you don't change and prioritise this family we will divorce and the children will be mainly with me. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) gives us so many chances, but they have limits, remember that. In some cultures divorce is a shame, a taboo, but you are following Islam and not a culture. The Quranic verse is وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ أَنْ خَلَقَ لَكُم مِّنْ أَنفُسِكُمْ أَزْوَاجًا لِّتَسْكُنُوا إِلَيْهَا وَجَعَلَ بَيْنَكُم مَّوَدَّةً وَرَحْمَةً

"And of His signs is that He created for you wives from among yourselves, that you might reside with them, and has put kindness and mercy between you"

If there ceases to be peace, kindness and mercy, then the very essence of your marriage goes against what God wants for you. God is All Kind and All Merciful - if you need to leave leave, he will not question you he will question her and demand of her why she lead you down this path.

Stay strong brother, one of the hardest things in life is taking a decision when you are stuck in a harsh marriage and have children. I pray to God that you and anyone else in a similar situation, finds strength and patience and in the end happiness and peace. 

[KulluNafsin]

On 3/8/2023 at 12:17 PM, notme said:

Marriage counseling.  

If she refuses to go, go alone.  

 

If what OP is saying is true, are you suggesting he only go alone to counselling? What would that do for them?

[KulluNafsin]

4 hours ago, Dubilex said:

This is gonna be very unpopular when I say this, but it is true nonetheless. So flame me all you want. And as a disclaimer, yes, I know that it's not all arabs yada yada bla bla. I'm speaking in general terms

In arab culture, men are expected to be assertive and dominant. Some people call it "toxic masculinity", depending on your point of view. Arab women wants dominant and assertive men who are in charge, who takes the lead. Behaving like a western man is seen as weakness in arab culture, and thus, arab women lose their respect for you and has contempt for you. You may or may not like it, but that's just how it is.

If you had been assertive at the start of the marriage, she would've respected you a lot more. But, after 7 years of this abusive pattern, the roles have been cemented and it's very difficult to change the dynamic. In any kind of mixed marriage, it is of utmost importance to familiarize yourself with the cultural norms of your partner. This is why arab-western marriages so often ends in divorce, since the cultures and gender norms are so different. 

I'm afraid the ultimate solution here will either be divorce, or that you somehow get yourself another wife

Unpopular but I agree to this. Its a sad reality. If she was a true muslimah then you could be your genuine kind self that you are, but she isnt. 

[Shams30]

Assalamu alaikom 

First of all may Allah shower you with his peace and blessing for finding the right path and continuing on it despite all the difficulties you have found alone in this journey. Very disappointed that your wife has failed in taking care of a new Muslim who we should spoil with love and peace. 

I am Iraqi and mark my words, our traditions are welcoming and sincere and I wish you saw that side of us. 

I don’t believe god wish for us to be miserable and wasteful of our youth so realistically you know divorce is probably in your best interest but only if you truly have exhausted all possibility of repairing this marriage - or what is left of it. Give her an ultimatum - show me the love and peace I deserve or let’s break up this family. If she is not willing to change you know what to do. Do not waste your mental health on a person who does not care. 
 

Divorce is accepted for a reason, who would want you to be miserable until the day you die. The person closest to you who does not see the sacrifices you have made, to become a practicing Muslim and taking the role of a devoted Muslim husband. Felt very sad reading this, inshallah you make the right decision and remember that the kids should always be your priority so always keep that peace and respect between you two. 

[Uni Student]

16 hours ago, Guest Peace said:

Give her a final warning and tell her, if you don't change and prioritise this family we will divorce and the children will be mainly with me.

The children will most likely go with her according to western divorce courts

[Abu Hadi]

On 3/8/2023 at 4:52 AM, Guest Hussein said:

Hi all, I’m a revert to Islam who married into Iraqi family in the West. Me and my wife met online, we kept up for 2 years and I’ve moved across the ocean - leaving behind my entire life; job, family and friends - to literally marry my wife. Our marriage from the onset is a disaster. From religious point of view, my wife does pray daily and fasts in Ramadan, veils properly etc. but this is where it starts and ends. She is non stop rude, disrespectful, not affectionate at all (I don’t remember when last time I was kissed or hugged), she isn’t obedient etc. She doesn’t cook, and her cleanliness standards at home leave a lot to desire. I’ve been fulfilling ALL my Islamic duties; from being loyal, to praying, to fasting, to working non stop, paying for everything, to looking over our two children, cleaning the house, cooking etc. I’ve told my wife if you want to work, you can, if you don’t, you don’t have to. After 5-6 years of not working into our marriage, she went to work and completely dedicated her time to this, as well as full time studying at the University (degree she was meant to get 7 years ago before my arrival), without even asking me. We are married but she lives independent lifestyle without giving me any rights. Our sex life is nonexistent since day one, since my wife has no desire or drive for it starting on our WEDDING NIGHT. What can I do in this situation, I’ve been trying to talk to her and accomodate to her as much as I can in the last 7 years but she just brushes everything off and insults me non stop. She even started trash talking about me to her family and friends. Even in front of children she insults me. I’ve never met a person so void of understanding, affection, or mercy it’s insane. So much for promised religiosity.. What should I do in this case? We have two children together. I’ve already talked to her father (first time after 7 years of marriage), it gave nothing. Showing her Quran, ahadith or the ruling of maraji’, changes nothing. I’m literally married to a sinner in saintly clothes. I’ve never known it will look like this marrying a born Muslim.. 

Salam. I'm sorry to say this, but first mistake was moving 'across the ocean'. As a man, being in a position to support the family financially and keep them safe is your first priority. To do this in your own country is difficult at times (or all the time for some). To do this in another country and another system which you are not familiar with is extremely difficult and adds pressure on top of the normal pressures of life, which makes everything worse, including the marriage. This stress will cause you to 'pick apart' the behaviour of your wife. I am not saying your concerns regarding her are not legit, and she may be this way, but this stress will cause all those things to magnify and amplify to the point where they are not tolerable, whereas in a less stressful environment they may be manageable and tolerable. 

I am a revert myself and my wife is from Lebanon. I had a similar situation to yours. I visited Lebanon and it is a beautiful country with alot of nice things about it and coming from the US it appealed to me, at first, to move there. I even got a good job offer at a University there and was seriously considering it. Then I started thinking about it and I realized that if I lost that job, for some reason, it would be almost impossible for me to find anything equivalent to that in another part of the city / country. I also knew that many of my wife's relatives who were the same age / skill level / education as me were trying to leave the country because of the economic situation. I thought to myself if they are Lebanese, born and raised here, and they are having a hard time earning a living despite their skill / education level, what chance do I have. So I told my wife that a condition of our marriage is that she leave Lebanon and move to the US. She didn't want to do that at first, but eventually agreed and we married and we have been happily married, living in the US for many years now and have three children together. 

At the same time, now that u have moved then I would say at this point try marriage counseling, like the others have said. Also, while she may have some bad qualities, as they say in English 'It takes two to tango' and 99.9% of the time it is the actions and behaviors of both the husband and wife that contribute to a bad marriage situation. One may contribute to this more than the other, but the first step is to look at your own behaviour objectively and see how you might be contributing to the situation. This is what a good marriage counselor will do, force you to examine your own behaviour before looking at the spouse. Then after than, doing the same with the spouse and then trying to find a 'mid way point' where you can both agree and then each one admit their faults and then try to change their behaviour so that the situation can improve. This is called reconciliation and it is the first goal of any good marriage counselor, not to push you toward divorce. Divorce is only presented as an option once both spouses go thru the process of attempted reconciliation and it fails. You can't assume it's going to fail before you try. So this is the option I would try if I were in a similar situation. 

[notme]

On 3/10/2023 at 7:30 AM, Uni Student said:

The children will most likely go with her according to western divorce courts

This is not usually the case in the United States. Courts usually award joint custody unless it is proven that one spouse is unable to care for children.  I do not know about other "western" countries.  

[notme]

On 3/9/2023 at 4:23 PM, KulluNafsin said:

If what OP is saying is true, are you suggesting he only go alone to counselling? What would that do for them?

It would help him to get his thoughts on the marriage straight and to think of things he could do to improve the situation.  Plus if he goes to a marriage counselor and the wife sees improvement, she is more likely to agree to go than when she feels that he is blaming her rather than trying to find a solution.  

It would be better if they both go, but if she refuses he should go anyway.  

Edited March 11 by notme

[notme]

On 3/8/2023 at 6:27 AM, Guest Hussein said:

You mean Islamic marriage counselling or secular one?

Islamic marriage counseling if it's available, secular if it's not. You have to at least try.  

[Dubilex]

Then again, we don't know the full picture, since the wife is not here to tell her side of the story. Islam also says that the man is the backbone, the guardian of the family. That's why in arab culture, men are expected to take the lead. Not like in western families where oftentimes, the men let women decide everything

[Maisam Haider]

On 3/8/2023 at 2:52 PM, Guest Hussein said:

Our sex life is nonexistent since day one, since my wife has no desire or drive for it starting on our WEDDING NIGHT

Asexual women are becoming quite common these days. Such women have nonexistent sexual desires and they can lead their entire lives without needing any sort of sexual activity. To be the husband of an asexual woman means that the man would have to live a celibate life, despite being married, esp. if it isn't possible for him to get married again. For a man, this is one of the greatest test of sexual patience, to be able to stay chaste and to go on endlessly suppressing the sexual desire when his wife is an asexual person and he has no means to marry anyone else. 

[Haji 2003]

11 hours ago, Maisam Haider said:

To be the husband of an asexual woman means that the man would have to live a celibate life, despite being married, esp. if it isn't possible for him to get married again.

This may be the case in other religions but in Shia Islam men have a 'get-out-of-jail-free-card', so to speak.

[Maisam Haider]

That's right. But it all depends on circumstances. Of course, a man in a sexless marriage should attempt to get divorce and re-marry or do mutah. But people can be in situations where achieving this target is not in their own hands despite their own desires to achieve it. In that case, a man would be forced by his circumstances to be celibate even though he is married, for none of his own fault. 

[notme]

On 3/16/2023 at 3:41 PM, Maisam Haider said:

Asexual women are becoming quite common these days. Such women have nonexistent sexual desires and they can lead their entire lives without needing any sort of sexual activity.

Most women are not going to feel physical attraction without emotional attraction and most men nowadays lack emotional depth and devote more time to getting to know his TV,  computer, phone, and game system than to getting to know his wife.  

Many men might be content with intimacy with a stranger, and a few women might, but most women and some men require more of a partner.  

Not saying this is the case with those poor sad men married to "asexual" wives, just worth considering.  

[KulluNafsin]

On 3/16/2023 at 9:41 PM, Maisam Haider said:

Asexual women are becoming quite common these days. Such women have nonexistent sexual desires and they can lead their entire lives without needing any sort of sexual activity. To be the husband of an asexual woman means that the man would have to live a celibate life, despite being married, esp. if it isn't possible for him to get married again. For a man, this is one of the greatest test of sexual patience, to be able to stay chaste and to go on endlessly suppressing the sexual desire when his wife is an asexual person and he has no means to marry anyone else. 

Are you being serious here? What kind of life are you justifying for the man? 

[AbdusSibtayn]

On 3/18/2023 at 8:42 PM, notme said:

most men nowadays lack emotional depth and devote more time to getting to know his TV,  computer, phone, and game system than to getting to know his wife.  

Agreed. 

The consumerist ethos of our times means that the partner is also a commodity, a new gadget to fiddle with. Sadly, human beings don't work like that. 

[Maisam Haider]

On 3/20/2023 at 4:12 PM, KulluNafsin said:

What kind of life are you justifying for the man? 

Not justifying at all. I'm only stating what they are required to go through, i.e, even if they are in a sexless married life and are unable to marry any other woman, they still must avoid all sexual sins. 

Just because a man is married to an asexual woman and just because he is unable to marry any other woman, he cannot use these points to justify committing any sexual sin. Instead,  he would be required to be patient and live a celibate life, if it is beyond his reach to get married to any other woman.