Myth of Imam Mahdi?

[Mightyservant]

What is the genuine Shia opinion of the Sunnis who say that the 12th imam never existed? I’ve come to realize all the things that extremist Sunnis say about Shia are all fables and myths…

[Ashvazdanghe]

Salam according to Ibn Hajar the famous Salafi

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The jurist Shafi'i Ibn Hajar stated that the denial of the Mahdi, if it leads to the denial of the Sunnah from basics and principle, is the cause of disbelief, and anyone who does so must be killed and if denial is just because of enmity with Imams of islam not Sunnah it's obligatory  to publicly punish him and insult him so that he would stop doing this. (5)

https://www.makarem.ir/main.aspx?typeinfo=43&lid=0&mid=409132&catid=-2

accorsing to Albani as most respeted person for Wahabists

 

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و ما مثل هؤلاء إلا كمثل من ينكر عقيدة نزول عيسي عليه السلام في آخر الزمان التي تواتر ذكرها في الأحاديث الصحيحة ،... ، و أكاد أقطع أن كل من أنكر عقيدة المهدي ينكرها أيضا ، و بعضهم يظهر ذلك من فلتات لسانه ، و إن كان لا يبين . و ما مثل هؤلاء المنكرين جميعا عندي إلا كما لو أنكر رجل ألوهية الله عز وجل بدعوي أنه ادعاها بعض الفراعنة ! " فهل من مدكر"

سلسله الاحاديث الصحيحه آلباني ج4 ص 43 مكتبه المعارف

chain of of Sahih hadiths of Albani v4 p 43

 

 

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Their example, they are like those who deny the belief of the descent of Jesus, peace be upon him, at the end of time - about which authentic hadiths have been circulated - and I definitely say that whoever denies  belief of the Mahdi (peace be upon him) he will  deny it too, and some of them have also expressed this opinion unintentionally (because of a slip) and the example of this whole group of disbelievers - the departure of Mahdi, peace be upon him - in my eyes is the same as someone who denies that Allah is the Supreme Being , it, like the claim of some pharaohs. So is there any who accepts theadvice?

 

 

https://www.valiasr-aj.com/persian/shownews.php?idnews=6147

[Ashvazdanghe]

قال مولانا الامام المهدی (عجّل‌الله‌فرجه‌الشریف):
(لَیْسَ بَیْنَ اللّهِ عَزَّوَجَلَّ وَبَیْنَ اَحَد قِرابَةٌ، وَمَنْ اَنْکَرَنی فَلَیْسَ مِنّی، وَسَبیلُهُ سَبیلُ ابْنِ نُوح)

 

There is no kinship between allah Almighty and anyone, whoever denies me is not from me, and his way is the way of Noah's son.
This phrase is a part of Imam Zaman's (peace be upon him) answers to the questions of Ishaq Ibn Yaqub.

1.1 - The ruling of the relatives denying the imam's imamate

Among those questions is the question of the ruling of those who are from the Ahl al-Bayt and the descendants of the Prophet and are considered to be his uncle's children, but they are disbelievers of Imam Zaman.
He asks: "Despite the fact that the deniers of the Prophet are some of the prophets, are they misguided or not?" In response to this question, the Imam (aj) points out a point and says:
There is no kinship between Allah and anyone for which a special consideration should be made about him; Therefore, if a person disobeys Allah (whoever he is), his fate is hell.

1.2 -  relatives who rejected him like the children of Noah

One of the cases of disobedience to God is denying the imam of the time or denying his existence. The one who has this opinion, the path he walks is the path of Noah's son. No matter where he takes refuge, he will not be saved; Just as the mountain did not save Noah's son.

1.3 - Ahl al-Bayt is like Noah's Ark

This hadith is confirmed by the narrations that Shia and Sunni have given in their narrative books; And that the Prophet (peace be upon him and his progeny) said:
The example of my family is like Noah's ark, whoever gets on it will be saved and whoever violates it will drown. [8]
[9]

https://fa.wikifeqh.ir/توقیع_حکم_منکرین_امام_زمان

https://www.hawzahnews.com/news/973991/حکم-منکرین-امام-زمان-علیه-السلام

https://hedayatgar.ir/fa/news/4482/کفر-منکر-حضرت-مهدیعج

http://www.javabcity.ir/node/2657

http://askdin.com/thread/اگر-کسی-امام-زمان-را-قبول-نداشته-باشد،-کافر-است؟

https://www.valiasr-aj.com/persian/mobile_shownews.php?idnews=14329

[Yusuf71]

Imam Mahdi( as)  is something which needs to be experienced, it is not something we can simply say did or did not exist. I had a dream once related to him. I was in a masjid and a man with a turban was standing by the Mihrab was ushering people through. The MIhrab had a door in the wall and people were kind of queuing up to walk through it, like in a terminal of the airport. 

It seems to be that the problem is not the Mahdi, non Muslims and people who dont know much about metaphysical ideas will always find reasons to be sceptical. They want earthly solid answers and are not open to metaphysical experiences.

About his earthly existence, even if they proved that he never had an earthly existence, I would still pass salaam to him because wherever he is, or in whatever form, I still believe he is there. 

The very same problem exists in Christianity with regards to the metaphysical idea of Mary (عليه السلام) being present, in Catholicism she is the peak of the religion, yet in Protestantism, she is nothing.  It is not about shia or sunni it is a basic interpretation about how you peceive the world around you and whether that world is full of Islamic characters who are with us interceding at every moment pulling us forward or whether we simply say "they are dead, we should destroy the memory of them to avoid people worshipping them".

[Muslim2010]

On 2/19/2023 at 6:20 PM, Mightyspunge said:

What is the genuine Shia opinion of the Sunnis who say that the 12th imam never existed? I’ve come to realize all the things that extremist Sunnis say about Shia are all fables and myths…

I am not going to explain the belief of sunni and shia about Imam Mahdi as it is an established principle both from shia and sunni sources.

I am just motioning the link where you may see the authentic traditions both from Sunni and Shia sources. These are just sufficient to confirm and validate the presence of Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام) in Islam.

wasalam

[matrix]

To be fair, most of the details surrounding his existence are fuzzy and clouded with an incredible amount of mystery. You just have to look it up, read around a little bit, and you will see what I mean. It has become increasingly difficult to make sense of something like this literally, because it leads to more questions than it answers. Hence, people have resorted to understanding his existence metaphorically, emotionally, through personal experience, and so on. 

What is the Shi'a opinion on Sunnis who don't believe in the Mahdi's existence? I don't think there is any real opinion out there in this regard. There are many Hanafi Sunnis who do believe that he was born and continues to live. Most of the Sunnis don't however - which is not surprising at all.

[azizaliallah]

The imam mehdi has been amongst us since MuhammedAli. To say he is not born regardless of time frame is Kufr.

[Ashvazdanghe]

4 hours ago, azizaliallah said:

The imam mehdi has been amongst us since MuhammedAli.

Salam thisi totally true  but on the other hand

4 hours ago, azizaliallah said:

To say he is not born regardless of time frame is Kufr.

This is wrong because majority of sunnis believe to him although they have differnt viewpoint about his birth than Shia muslims which non of revered Marjas has declared it as Kufr but on the other hand totall denying of him whether already born or not by Wahbists & Nasibis is equivalent to Kufr which due to enmity with Shias they totally have denied him although his coming as savior has been proven from both of Sunni Shia sources  although different viewpoints.

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 2/20/2023 at 6:24 PM, matrix said:

There are many Hanafi Sunnis who do believe that he was born and continues to live. Most of the Sunnis don't however - which is not surprising at all.

Hi this is because majority of Sunnis don’t have enough knowledge about their sources of faith likewise hadith books which they are mostly dependent on sayings of some scholars in pulpits who are hiding truth from them .

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 2/20/2023 at 6:24 PM, matrix said:

What is the Shi'a opinion on Sunnis who don't believe in the Mahdi's existence

Such person is likewise a person who has verified all prophets until prophet Isa (عليه السلام) but on the other hand denies prophet Muhammad (pbu) .

On 2/20/2023 at 6:24 PM, matrix said:

To be fair, most of the details surrounding his existence are fuzzy and clouded with an incredible amount of mystery. You just have to look it up, read around a little bit, and you will see what I mean. It has become increasingly difficult to make sense of something like this literally, because it leads to more questions than it answers. Hence, people have resorted to understanding his existence metaphorically, emotionally, through personal experience, and so on

These confusion have been created by his enemies but on the other hand his undoubted existence has been proven even trough sunni sources although  groups likewise Wahabists have created confusion about his existence .

[Simple thinking]

On 2/19/2023 at 8:20 AM, Mightyspunge said:

What is the genuine Shia opinion of the Sunnis who say that the 12th imam never existed? I’ve come to realize all the things that extremist Sunnis say about Shia are all fables and myths…

 Ibn Hajar Al-Askalani and Shams Al-Deen Al-Dhahabi, who are both giants in the fields of Sunni Ilm Al-Rijal say the following in their respective books.

We read the following in Tarikh Al-Islam Vol 19 pg. 113:

Al-Hassan bin Ali bin Muhammad bin Ali Al-Ridha bin Musa bin Jaffar Al-Sadiq

Abu Muhammad bin al-Hashimi al-Husayni is one of the Shiite imams whom the Shiites claim to be infallible. He is referred to by Al-Hasan Al-Askari but he lived in Samarra, for it is called Al-Askar.

He is the father of the Muntadhar of the Rafidah.

As for his son, Muhammad ibn al-Hassan, whom the Rafidah call the Qaim, the Caliph, the Hujjah, he was born in the year fifty-eight, and it was said: the year fifty-six. He lived after his father for two years, then he disappeared, and it is not known how he died.

We read the following in Lisan Al-Mizan Vol 2 pg. 460:

Jaffar bin Ali bin Muhammad bin Ali bin Muhammad bin Ali bin Musa bin Jaafar bin Muhammad bin Ali bin Al Hussein bin Ali bin Abi Talib Al Hussaini, brother of Hassan, who is called Al-Askari. He is the eleventh of the shia Imami imams and the father of Muhammad, the owner of the well.

We can clearly see that both of these scholars claim that Imam Al-Hassan Al-Askari did have a son.

As for the shia references, it is very clear that he did have a son with mutawatir narrations. We shall use the following as an example Al-Kafi Vol 1 book 4 Chapter 76 Hadith 2:

 

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Ishaq from abu Hashim al-Ja‘fari who has said the following. “I said to abu Muhammad ((عليه السلام).), ‘Your grace causes shyness to me to ask you questions. May I ask you a question?” He said, “Yes, you may ask.” I said, “My master, do you have a son?” He said, “Yes, I do have a son.” I then said, “If anything will happen to you, where would I ask him (about my religion)?” He replied, “Ask him in Madina.”

The following narration shows that Imam Al-Hassan Al-Askari did have a son opposing what sunnis like to claim and Al-Majlisi in Miraat Al-Uqool says the hadith is Sahih.