Zaydism (Q&A) the Creed of the Ahl al-Bayt!

[Zaydism]

For those interested in learning about the honorable creed of the Ahl al-Bayt (which is embodied by the Zaydiyya), feel free to ask any questions you may have and I will seek to answer with clarity, detail, and reference to primary sources from the very works of the progeny! This thread is not intended to be polemical, as the aim of it is to first clarify. As one may agree, it is unwise to attack a view without first understanding said view. Nonetheless, critical, and rigorous questions are highly encouraged.

[Ashvazdanghe]

Salam you have not answered previous refutations to your claims which all of your previous claims have been based on fabrications & forging for promotion of your wrong interpretation from both of Zaydism  & Twelver shia Islam which in all of previous threads your false claims have been refuted through logic & strong documents & reliable Hadith & holy quran .

[Zaydism]

On 2/15/2023 at 11:15 PM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam you have not answered previous refutations to your claims which all of your previous claims have been based on fabrications & forging for promotion of your wrong interpretation from both of Zaydism  & Twelver shia Islam which in all of previous threads your false claims have been refuted through logic & strong documents & reliable Hadith & holy quran .

Wa Alaykum as-Salam,

On 2/15/2023 at 8:36 AM, Zaidism said:

feel free to ask any questions you may have

On 2/15/2023 at 8:36 AM, Zaidism said:

This thread is not intended to be polemical

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

Salam

On 2/15/2023 at 6:06 PM, Zaidism said:

feel free to ask any questions you may have and I will seek to answer with clarity, detail, and reference to primary sources from the very works of the progeny!

Sayings of Imam Ali ((عليه السلام))

One who imagines himself to be all-knowing will surely suffer on account of his ignorance.

Quote

 There are many educated people who have ruined their future on account of their ignorance of religion. Their knowledge did not prove of any avail to them.

 

Quote

I want to teach you five of those things which deserve your greatest anxiety to acquire them: Have hope only in Allah. Be afraid of nothing but sins. If you do not know a thing never feel ashamed to admit ignorance. If you do not know a thing never hesitate or feel ashamed to learn it. Acquire patience and endurance because their relation with true faith is that of a head to a body, a body is of no use without a head, similarly true faith can be of no use without attributes of resignation, endurance and patience.

Imam Ali (عليه السلام) said : 'Ask in order to understand, and do not ask in order to find fault, for surely the ignorant man who wants to learn resembles a man of knowledge, and surely a man of knowledge who wants to be difficult resembles an ignorant man who wants to find fault. '

https://www.erfan.ir/english/17199.html

https://www.erfan.ir/english/40400.html

[Zaydi Friend]

Salam.

Indeed I don't want to be like the Christians who took the top two commandments of God where it says "The Lord your God is One", and twisted it completely to promote their doctrine of the trinity, by changing the entire obvious meaning of God's words.

Shia Islam has three top commandments established above all others forever, repeated throughout our Imams' hadith in the book Al-Kafi. These essential commands of God are the foundation of all religion: 1. The submission to Allah, 2. The Imamate, and 3. The Prophet/Prophecy of Quran.

Without reading additional hadith, first I can deduce it's essential to God's religion to have an Imam. Al-Kafi says many times "He who doesn't know their Imam of the time in person, is one without any religion. It is as though they have become useless."

It says "We have made the Imams like the stars, that they will rise one after the other FOREVER until the last day." Even when I perceive other sects attempt to reinterpret the command of God, it falls short: a long-living hidden imam for example, with a non in-person leadership of the ummah, will not fit the command of God because the hadiths of our Imams say, the Imams rise and fall continuously. This was established so intensely from the beginning, and "you must have your Imam as though they are face-to-face" was such a given that our wonderful imams wrote all about this in al-Kafi too.

But to me, I feel I would be like a Christian if I said yes we have an Imam so we follow God, even though he has been hidden for a thousand years. The Christians are who destroyed "The Lord your God is One" meaning, as never in a million years would God expect anyone actually wise to reinterpret the meaning so clear! Because of God's guidance, I can't say I will ever become a Twelvers or Sevener either, but as a thought experiment, if I ever did, I would let all things in Islam fade away before I ever saw a single scratch put on Kitab Al-Kafi.

Salam to you all, this is not my official introduction to the forum but I thought I would post here first, as this is the correct board to discuss the opinions of all the various sects. Thank you all for being so kind and being good friends to us, allowing us to speak on these other sectarian topics from time-to-time. I hope I can find a place of love and similarity in this forum and with its Shia believers. <3 And we are thankful for the user Zaidism for giving us other perspectives and diversity.

 

[Zaydism]

On 2/26/2023 at 3:04 AM, Zaydi Friend said:

Salam.

Walaykom as-Salām my dear brother, thank you for your sincere, and warm thoughts. You are certainly a blessed addition to the forum .

Regarding your noble remarks, I was able to glean that you had three particular inquiries.

Namely, (1) the Zaydī view on the Imāma, (2) the narration regarding the necessity to know the Imām of your time, (3) the Imāms being like stars, and (4) the views of the Ahl al-Bayt being represented by K. al-Kāfī. 

Regarding (1): The Zaydī view in terms of the Ahl al-Bayt, and the Imāma is twofold: (i) the progeny of the Prophet are seen as preservers of the Sunnah in the consensus of their community, the early sons of al-Ḥasan, and al-Ḥusayn and (ii)the Imāma is a means to an end, the end is establishing the Shariah and ruling by the tradition of al-Imam Ali, al-Imam al-Ḥasan, and al-Imam al-Ḥusayn (upon them be peace). 

It isn’t that Zaydīs hold there to be some strange intrinsic quality that every Fāṭimī possess and therefore we are to adhere to them because they’re descendants of the Prophet ﷺ. Indeed, this is not the Zaydī understanding regarding the progeny. Rather, the significance of the collective Ḥasanī, and Ḥusaynī progeny is that they serve as a valuable epistemic principle. Meaning the views of Ahl al-Kisāʾ which mirror the Sunnah of the Prophet ﷺ are effectively preserved by the early sons of the Prophet, from al-Ḥasan, and al-Ḥusayn. This is similar to how Allāh favored the sons of Israel to preserve, and teach the Torah. 

What Zaydīs are saying is that the collective early progeny serve a a valuable epistemic purpose in preserving the Sunnah that was distorted by individuals like Muʿāwiyah, the Ghulāt, and other pro-government/anti-Shīʿī campaigns. 

The matter is that Amīr al-Muʾminīn was set as a banner which one can differentiate truth, and falsehood. Guidance, and misguidance. He’s a mercy to the Ummah, he’s the most reliable source and when the Ummah betrayed him. The Prophet still gave them another chance, he emphasized his love for al-Ḥasan, and al-Ḥusayn, he showcased their position in paradise, that they will be masters in paradise and he who is a master in paradise is surely a master in this world. 
After Amīr al-Muʾminīn they were the best source to take the Sunnah from. Why? Because they were the nearest to Amīr al-Muʾminīn who was nearest to the Prophet. 

Then, after they were murdered, and betrayed by the Ummah what was left? The Prophet then gave us the last resort to preserving the Sunnah. For, if Amīr al-Muʾminīn led we wouldn’t be in this dilemma, by Allāh. If Ḥasanayn led we wouldn’t be in this dilemma, why? Because they would have preserved the Sunnah and we wouldn’t need to worry about guidance. However, that didn’t happen, and the Prophet wouldn’t leave us all at the mercy of sects, and schisms. 

So, he said: I leave behind the two weighty things the Book of Allāh, and my progeny. I remind you of my progeny, I remind you of my progeny. 

Why? Because they’re the gateway to the views of Amīr al-Muʾminīn, al-Ḥasan, and al-Ḥusayn who are Masters of paradise. Meaning, they don’t engage in major sins. Meaning, they don’t lie. Meaning, when they say the Messenger said X, or taught Y. Then, this is the Sunnah. 

1. Imām ʿAlī is the authority in religion, and in political affairs after the Messenger and the station of the Messenger is his rightful seat. For, he is most deserving of it and the Qurʾān advances those who are most deserving ahead of others. 

2. Likewise, al-Ḥasan, and al-Ḥusayn. 

3. Then, the consensus of the family is an epistemic authority in light of 1, and 2. 

Why? Is it just some sectarian theological position that bears no fruit, or does it succeed in providing you with some substance? 
The significance of the consensus is that it allows you to reach absolute historical, and religious certainty. 

How? 

Consider this: Imām Ḥasan b. Ḥasan who married Imām Ḥusayn’s daughter had Imām ʿAbdullāh b. Ḥasan. Imām ʿAbdullāh taught his sons Imām Muḥammad, ʾIbrāhīm, Yaḥyā, Idrīs, and Mūsā the teachings of his father al-Ḥasan, and his uncle al-Ḥusayn (likewise the mother of Imām ʿAbdullāh Fāṭima bnt. Ḥusayn of course narrated to her son as well). Then, we have Imām Ḥusayn’s son, ʿAlī b. Ḥusayn also teaching his sons such as Imām Zayd, ʿUmar, Ḥusayn. 

Then, those from the Ḥasanī line, and those from the Ḥusaynī line all intermingled such as:

Imām Zayd, Imām Nafs Zakiyya, Imām ʿAbdullāh, Imām Ṣādiq, Imām Bāqir, Imām Muḥammad b. Jaʿfar, Imām Kāẓim, Imām Ḥusayn b. Zayd. 
Then, you had  al-Imām al-Qāsim who by testimony of Najāshī took from al-Kāẓim, and al-Ṣādiq and was in the physical presence of Imām Kāẓim. Meaning al-Imām al-Qāsim took his knowledge from al-Kāẓim who was not only the student of al-Ṣādiq, he was also aware of the views of al-Imām al-Nafs al-Zakīyya who in turn was a student of al-Imām Zayd, and al-Imām ʿAbdullāh b. al-Ḥasan. Likewise, you also have Imām Aḥmad b. ʿĪsā b. Zayd, Imām Aḥmad b. Mūsā al-Kāẓim, Zayd b. Mūsā al-Kāẓim, ʿAlī b. Mūsā al-Riḍā, Muḥammad b. ʾIbrāhīm b. ʿAbdullāh b. Ḥasan, Yaḥyā b. Ḥusayn b. Zayd b. ʿAlī, et al. 

This generation is the generation that preserved the views of the members of the cloak, because you only had 1, or 2 family members (their father, uncle, cousin) as direct intermediaries between them and Imām Ṣādiq, Zayd, ʿAbdullāh. Ḥasan b. Ḥasan, etc. 

Take this for instance, not only did you have Imām Qāsim take from Imām Kāẓim personally. The father of Imām al-Nāṣir al-Uṭrūsh took from the son of al-Imām al-Ṣādiq who is ʿAlī al-ʿUrayḍī. So, you have between Imām Nāṣir to Imām Ṣādiq only one intermediary, and between Imām Qāsim and Imām Ṣādiq only one intermediary both being the very righteous sons of al-Imām Ṣādiq. One of them is a Ḥasanī, and the other is a Ḥusaynī. Now, let’s take this a step further: 
Imām Hādī a Ḥasanī Imām never met with Imām Nāṣir, and Imām Nāṣir a Ḥusaynī never met with Imām Hādī. 

Yet, Imām Hādī in Yemen, and Imām Nāṣir in Tabristan both transmitted the same exact creed just by narrating from their forefathers and kindred who were all drawing from the same Fāṭimī pond 1-2 intermediaries away.

Here’s another example, these early members of the Ahl al-Bayt didn’t only have 1-2 intermediaries with their fathers, they also had it with their wives, mothers, aunts, and sisters. 

More Ḥasanī, and Ḥusaynī intermingling and the same creed…

The wife of Imām al-Qāsim al-Rassī

Sayyida Fāṭima bnt. ʿAbdullāh b. Ḥasan b. ʾIbrāhīm b. ʿAbdullāh b. Ḥasan b. Ḥasan b. ʿAlī b. Abī Ṭālib 

The wife of ʿĪsā b. Zayd b. ʿAlī 

Sayyida ʿAbda bnt. ʿUmar b. ʿAlī b. al-Ḥusayn b. ʿAlī b. Abī Ṭālib 

The wife of Imām Nafs Zakīyya 

Sayyida Umm Salama bnt. Muḥammad b. Ḥasan b. Ḥasan b. ʿAlī b. Abī Ṭālib 

The wife of ʿAbdullāh al-Afṭaṣ

Sayyida Zaynab bnt. Mūsā b. ʿUmar b. ʿAlī b. Ḥusayn b. ʿAlī b. Abī Ṭālib 

The wife of Imām Ṣādiq 

Fāṭima bnt. Husyan b. Ḥasan b. ʿAlī b. Abī Ṭālib 

The wife of ʿAlī b. Jaʿfar al-ʿUrayḍī

Sayyida Fāṭima bnt. Muḥammad b. ʿAbdullāh b. ʿAlī b. al-Ḥusayn b. ʿAlī b. Abī Ṭālib

Many more examples can be given. 

As for (2): The narration that he who dies not knowing the Imām of his time will die a death of ignorance. The answer to that question is found with al-Imām ʾIbrāhīm b. ʿAbdullāh b. al-Ḥasan b. al-Ḥasan b. ʿAlī b. Abī Ṭālib:

al-Imām al-Nāṣir ʾilā al-Ḥaqq  

al-Ḥasan b. ʿAlī b. al-Ḥasan b. ʿAlī b. ʿUmar b. ʿAlī b. al-Ḥusayn b. ʿAlī b. Abī Ṭālib, upon him be peace narrated from Ibrahim b. ʿAbdullāh b. al-Ḥasan b. al-Ḥasan b. ʿAlī b. Abī Ṭālib, upon them be peace, when he was asked regarding this report. So, he, upon him be peace, said: ((He, upon him be peace, intended that he who dies without knowing the Imām of his time to be just, so as to follow him, or unjust, so as to avoid him dies a death of ignorance)).

Perceive the accuracy, and consistency in this understanding, see the applicability of this reading which the Ahl al-Bayt, upon them be peace, have preserved. Indeed, if one does not know whether they are submitting to good, or evil. Then, truly their affair is of the most ignorant of affairs equated with that of the people of ignorance! Otherwise, any other reading will strip this Prophetic ḥadīth from its value, and apply to it a pro-sectarian understanding which has no pragmatic applicability, nor is it tangible. 

Furthermore, al-Imām al-Hādī Yaḥyā b. al-Ḥusayn b. al-Imām al-Qāsim al-Rassī, upon them be peace, the Ḥasanid  contemporary of al-Imām al-Nāṣir al-Ḥusayni answers a further inquiry in his Majmu’ which asks: What if there is no (just) Imām, who is the Imām? al-Imām al-Hādī, upon him be peace, states that the Imām is the Qurʾān, and the honorable example of al-Imām ʿAlī, al-Imām al-Ḥasan, and al-Imām al-Ḥusayn, upon them be peace. 

Once again, another clear, and applicable understanding to this sacred Prophetic ḥadīth which highlights a magnificent synchronicity between the Messenger of Allāh, and his progeny in his teachings, and in their elucidations. 

Finally, it chimes brilliantly with the Qurʾān which states: 

{We made them Imāms inviting ˹others˺ to the Fire} 

And 

{We made them into Imāms to guide people in accordance with Our command}. 

As for (3): The Imams being like stars cannot be said regarding the Twelfth Imam, for, he does not guide, he does nothing to serve the Ummah, and he does nothing to clarify. In fact the Twelvers are in more confusion than any other sect of Islam!

The scholars, and jurists of the Twelvers who claim that the Imam is infallible, so as to be free from the entrance of falsehood and claim that the infallible Imam ‘the Mahdī Muḥammad b. al-Ḥasan’ obligated that the Muslims refer back to them [the jurists].

They differ amongst themselves, and they deem each other to be disbelievers, and deviants. As al-Fayḍ al-Kāshānī states: ((You will find them differing on one matter reaching twenty, or thirty positions. Rather, I can say that there isn’t a single farʿī matter which they haven’t differed upon, or differed on what relates to it)).

Consider the grand Ayatollah al-Shaykh Waḥīd al-Khuraṣānī, the grand Ayatollah al-Shaykh Jawād al-Tabrīzī, al-Shaykh Ḥusayn al-Shahrūdī, Aḥmad al-Madadī, Muṣṭafa al-Harandī, ʿAlī al-Ḥāʾrī, Muḥammad Hādī āl-Raḍī, Ḥusayn al-Najātī, Bāqir al-ʾīrūwānī, and Ḥasan al-Jawharī.

They are among the Ustadhs, and Marjaʿīyya of the Shīʿa in ʾĪrān. They all decree in their verdicts that the grand Ayatollah al-Sayyid Muḥammad Ḥusayn Faḍlullāh wishes to weaken the light of Prophethood, and extinguish the light of wilāya. They say that he is among the deviating deviants, and they ask Muḥammad Ḥusayn Faḍlullāh to return from his deviance, and arise from his slumber by making known his repentance. They claim that all those who supported Muḥammad Ḥusayn Faḍlullāh in any manner is as if they have aided in obstructing a pillar from among the sacred Shariah. 

So, consider these Marjaʿīyya:

The fāsiq, and those who attribute fisq. The deviant, and the deemers of deviation. 

Did the infallible Mahdī obligate that we return to them?

Is Muḥammad Ḥusayn Faḍlullāh a fāsiq, and a deviant?

If he isn’t a fāsiq, then are the Shīʿī Marjaʿīyya al-Tabrīzī, and al-Khuraṣānī fāsiqs? 

Likewise, the grand Ayatollah Muntaḍarī, the one who was imprisoned in his home due to what occurred between the Shīrāzīs, Aḳbārīs, and Khumaynīs. What is your view with his regard? What are you to say regarding what occurred of executions for many of the emulated Shīʿī scholars during the Iranian revolution, and the pursuit of the special forces, and the Iranian intelligence agencies against all those who oppose the leadership of the jurist from among the emulated scholars, and the jurists?

Did the infallible Mahdī obligate for you to refer back to them? 

Reflect upon the Marjaʿīyya who issue verdicts of takfīr, fisq, and warn against other Marjaʿīyya, and scholars. They struggle against each other for the sake of Marjaʿīyya, and Khumṣ. A struggle which is not lifted from the Twelvers.

How can the infallible give authority to the non-infallible from among the Marjaʿīyya who kill each other, and slander each other with verdicts of kufr, and fisq?

al-Khumaynī said when addressing the people of the Hawza: Desist from these vulgar and exposed differences, stop these parties and wrong divisions, are you people [twelvers] of two religions?

As for (4): I refer you to Mashraʿat Biḥār al-Anwār by Shaykh Aṣif Muḥsinī wherein he held that only 5% of al-Kāfī is authentic, meaning 95% of it is lies and fabrications against the Ahl al-Bayt. Moreover, if you follow the Rijal method of Sayyid Khu'i you will find that no narration which establishes the birth of the Mahdi is authentic per the conditions of al-Sayyid al-Khu'i and this is attested to by Sayyid Adaab al-Hamash, and al-Sayyid Kamal, as you can see in this video here: 

https://youtu.be/exASqziozAA

Much more can be said, and this isn't even scraping the surface. However, if you have any further inquiries please, don't hesitate to ask. May Allāh bless you, and may He guide us all.

Edited February 27 by Zaidism
Typo(s)

[Ashvazdanghe]

13 hours ago, Zaidism said:

They are among the Ustadhs, and Marjaʿīyya of the Shīʿa in ʾĪrān. They all decree in their verdicts that the grand Ayatollah al-Sayyid Muḥammad Ḥusayn Faḍlullāh wishes to weaken the light of Prophethood, and extinguish the light of wilāya. They say that he is among the deviating deviants, and they ask Muḥammad Ḥusayn Faḍlullāh to return from his deviance, and arise from his slumber by making known his repentance. They claim that all those who supported Muḥammad Ḥusayn Faḍlullāh in any manner is as if they have aided in obstructing a pillar from among the sacred Shariah. 

So, consider these Marjaʿīyya:

The fāsiq, and those who attribute fisq. The deviant, and the deemers of deviation. 

Did the infallible Mahdī obligate that we return to them?

Is Muḥammad Ḥusayn Faḍlullāh a fāsiq, and a deviant?

If he isn’t a fāsiq, then are the Shīʿī Marjaʿīyya al-Tabrīzī, and al-Khuraṣānī fāsiqs? 

Salam these false claims are just batlant lies from you based on wahabis Nasibi propganda against Iran & it's Marjas which as usual you have relied on your false understanding which has been driven from anti Shia propganda of Wahabists & nasibis whic has no document or evidence .

14 hours ago, Zaidism said:

Likewise, the grand Ayatollah Muntaḍarī, the one who was imprisoned in his home due to what occurred between the Shīrāzīs, Aḳbārīs, and Khumaynīs. What is your view with his regard? What are you to say regarding what occurred of executions for many of the emulated Shīʿī scholars during the Iranian revolution, and the pursuit of the special forces, and the Iranian intelligence agencies against all those who oppose the leadership of the jurist from among the emulated scholars, and the jurists?

Did the infallible Mahdī obligate for you to refer back to them? 

They are all fallible people who can make mistakes  also it has proven that mr montazeri & the shirazi grouplet have dviated from right  pass which nothing as Khumaynīs existed which is just a typical creation of ill minded wahabists  which Imam Mahdi (aj) has obliged people to follow narrators of hadith who follow Quran & Ahlubayt not people who have deviated from right pass likewise  mr montazeri & the shirazi grouplet .

14 hours ago, Zaidism said:

Reflect upon the Marjaʿīyya who issue verdicts of takfīr, fisq, and warn against other Marjaʿīyya, and scholars. They struggle against each other for the sake of Marjaʿīyya, and Khumṣ. A struggle which is not lifted from the Twelvers.

How can the infallible give authority to the non-infallible from among the Marjaʿīyya who kill each other, and slander each other with verdicts of kufr, and fisq?

al-Khumaynī said when addressing the people of the Hawza: Desist from these vulgar and exposed differences, stop these parties and wrong divisions, are you people [twelvers] of two religions?

This is another batalant lie which you have no evidence & documant about it which you just reapeat accusations of Wahabists.

14 hours ago, Zaidism said:

As for (4): I refer you to Mashraʿat Biḥār al-Anwār by Shaykh Aṣif Muḥsinī wherein he held that only 5% of al-Kāfī is authentic, meaning 95% of it is lies and fabrications against the Ahl al-Bayt. Moreover, if you follow the Rijal method of Sayyid Khu'i you will find that no narration which establishes the birth of the Mahdi is authentic per the conditions of al-Sayyid al-Khu'i and this is attested to by Sayyid Adaab al-Hamash, and al-Sayyid Kamal, as you can see in this video here: 

nobody has claimed Kafi as most authentic book which in similar fashion of other books may have mistakes & errors anyway your accsation has no basis in similar fashion on rest of your accusations which you refer to a non authentic accusation in a vague youtube video .

[Ashvazdanghe]

13 hours ago, Zaidism said:

Consider this: Imām Ḥasan b. Ḥasan who married Imām Ḥusayn’s daughter had Imām ʿAbdullāh b. Ḥasan. Imām ʿAbdullāh taught his sons Imām Muḥammad, ʾIbrāhīm, Yaḥyā, Idrīs, and Mūsā the teachings of his father al-Ḥasan, and his uncle al-Ḥusayn (likewise the mother of Imām ʿAbdullāh Fāṭima bnt. Ḥusayn of course narrated to her son as well). Then, we have Imām Ḥusayn’s son, ʿAlī b. Ḥusayn also teaching his sons such as Imām Zayd, ʿUmar, Ḥusayn. Then, those from the Ḥasanī line, and those from the Ḥusaynī line all intermingled such as:

Imām Zayd, Imām Nafs Zakiyya, Imām ʿAbdullāh, Imām Ṣādiq, Imām Bāqir, Imām Muḥammad b. Jaʿfar, Imām Kāẓim, Imām Ḥusayn b. Zayd. 
Then, you had  al-Imām al-Qāsim who by testimony of Najāshī took from al-Kāẓim, and al-Ṣādiq and was in the physical presence of Imām Kāẓim. Meaning al-Imām al-Qāsim took his knowledge from al-Kāẓim who was not only the student of al-Ṣādiq, he was also aware of the views of al-Imām al-Nafs al-Zakīyya who in turn was a student of al-Imām Zayd, and al-Imām ʿAbdullāh b. al-Ḥasan. 

Likewise, you also have Imām Aḥmad b. ʿĪsā b. Zayd, Imām Aḥmad b. Mūsā al-Kāẓim, Zayd b. Mūsā al-Kāẓim, ʿAlī b. Mūsā al-Riḍā, Muḥammad b. ʾIbrāhīm b. ʿAbdullāh b. Ḥasan, Yaḥyā b. Ḥusayn b. Zayd b. ʿAlī, et al. 

This generation is the generation that preserved the views of the members of the cloak, because you only had 1, or 2 family members (their father, uncle, cousin) as direct intermediaries between them and Imām Ṣādiq, Zayd, ʿAbdullāh. Ḥasan b. Ḥasan, etc. 

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Salam Martyr Zayd (رضي الله عنه) never has called himself an Imam so then he doesn't appoint a successor for himself because his goal from uprising has been for returning right of infallible Imams which Imam of his time has been imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) so it proves that Ali ibn husain (عليه السلام) aka Imam Sajjad has been successor of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) which Imam Baqir (عليه السلام) & Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) have been his successors which it reached to 12th infallible Imam the Imam Mahdi (aj) but on the other hand thers is no evidence except fabrications & forging for so called Zaydi Imams also their wives have been ordinary women which none of them have been near to position of wives of infallible Imams (عليه السلام) in knowledge & piety which you try to put them eaqual to wives of infallible Imams by fabrication & forging .

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235081854-questions-regarding-shiism/#comment-3401523

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 2/27/2023 at 9:10 AM, Zaidism said:

As for (3): The Imams being like stars cannot be said regarding the Twelfth Imam, for, he does not guide, he does nothing to serve the Ummah, and he does nothing to clarify. In fact the Twelvers are in more confusion than any other sect of Islam!

Salam Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) said that Imam Mahdi (aj) the Twelfth Imam  during his occultation is likewise "sun behind clouds" which it means although  we can't see him face to face but on the other hand we benefit from his guidance .

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• Imam al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) is attributed to have said the following, as reported in the Amali of Shaykh al-Saduq, who records the tradition by means of a chain that terminates at al-A’mash: ‘the earth has not been devoid of a representative of God, since God created Adam (as); a representative that was either visible and well-known or invisible and concealed.

The earth will (likewise) not remain devoid of such a representative of God till the occurrence of the Hour for if it were to remain devoid of a representative from God, then God would not be worshipped!’ (A man by the name of) Sulayman said: ‘I asked al-Sadiq (عليه السلام), ‚So how does mankind benefit from an invisible and hidden representative?‛ He replied ‚just as they benefit from the sun when the clouds hide it!‛1

• The following tradition is reported in the book al-Ihtijaj from Shaykh al- Kulayni who in turn reports from Ishaq bin Ya’qub, that a message arrived for him from the Sacred Precinct through the intermediary of Muhammad bin ‘Uthman, which said: ‘As for the reason for the occurrence of the concealment, God, the Exalted, the Majestic says:

You who believe, do not ask about matters which, if made known to you, might make things difficult for you...‛ (5:101)

All my forefathers had to bear the burden of the pledge of allegiance to the tyrants of their time, however when I will rise, whenever that will be, there will not be the pledge of allegiance of any of the tyrants on myself. As for the question of benefiting from me, during my concealment, then that will be similar to the benefit obtained from the sun when the clouds hide it from sight. Indeed, I am the security for the inhabitants of the earth just as the stars are a security for the inhabitants of the heavens.

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3) The denier of his existence despite the abundant proofs of his existence is like the denier of the existence of the sun when the clouds hide it from sight.

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/sun-behind-clouds-muhammad-baqir-majlisi

[Ashvazdanghe]

16 hours ago, Zaidism said:

They say that he is among the deviating deviants, and they ask Muḥammad Ḥusayn Faḍlullāh to return from his deviance, and arise from his slumber by making known his repentance. They claim that all those who supported Muḥammad Ḥusayn Faḍlullāh in any manner is as if they have aided in obstructing a pillar from among the sacred Shariah. 

such statement has never issued by them which this batalant lie is just your vicious conclusion .

According to Sayed Sadiq Ruhani

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Therefore, his books are among the books of misguidance, but these do not make him an apostate, so there is no reason for Takfir.

 Yes, he is delusional, and I express my willingness to discuss these issues with him.

I announce verbally and in person, maybe Allah will guide him and he will return from what he said and announced, or

He should prove that he did not deny the virtue that is proven due to  being necessary for religion and did not issue a fatwa other than Allah's decree.

 And Allahlmighty forgives sins and mistakes.

10th Jumadi al-Awwal year 1423

http://hosinjafari.blogfa.com/post/50

First, Allameh Fazlullah corrected his words by stating that "anyone who says that I said that Zahra's side was not broken is a liar" after the release of the aforementioned clip. See its video below

https://ghorbanimoghadam.ir/1280/نظر-علامه-فضل-الله-درباره-شهادت-حضرت-زهرا-سلام-الله-علیها

Secondly, historical facts cannot be obtained by a method other than the method of historical studies, to say whether a certain event is reasonable. I don't think so, it is not acceptable and..., the truth is not revealed. To discover historical facts, it is necessary to refer to reliable historical sources and documents, and there is no other way.
Neither with philosophical reasoning, nor with experimental tests, nor with other methods can we find out any historical event, for example, how many wars Nader Shah fought and where he attacked, etc., only by referring to history  we can  find out knowledge about these issues .

 The events after the death of the Prophet of Islam are mentioned in numerous and reliable sources from Shia and Sunni, and wondering why Muslims or even Hazrat Ali himself remained silent does not change the essence of the matter.

 Does the wonder of how the Muslims martyred the son of the Messenger of Allah without committing a crime on the day of Ashura create doubt about the occurrence of this incident? Never.

 Yes, it is necessary to look for the origin, causes, consequences of events and learn from them by analyzing history, thinking and reasoning has this function in history, not to think what happened or what didn't happen. We also say #I wish that all the calamities on Hazrat Zahra and Ahl al-Bayt #were a legend, but historical documents say something else.

https://ghorbanimoghadam.ir/1280/نظر-علامه-فضل-الله-درباره-شهادت-حضرت-زهرا-سلام-الله-علیها

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 2/27/2023 at 9:10 AM, Zaidism said:

If he isn’t a fāsiq, then are the Shīʿī Marjaʿīyya al-Tabrīzī, and al-Khuraṣānī fāsiqs?

you want humilate Shia marjas while your accusations just shows your falshood & praising them .

The most important issue that caused controversy in his fatwa was issue of the martyrdom or death of Hazrat Zahra (peace be upon her). His doubt in the martyrdom of Hazrat Zahra ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) brought a wave of condemnations.

The late Ayatollah Tabrizi, the deceased authority and hadith scholar of Qom, issued a statement calling for a march on the anniversary of the martyrdom of Hazrat Zahra (peace be upon her). Since then, this ritual is held every year.

This dispute caused the process of confirming Fazlullah's authority to remain half way and his imitators did not go beyond Lebanon.

https://www.valiasr-aj.com/persian/shownews.php?idnews=3285

[Ashvazdanghe]

17 hours ago, Zaidism said:

al-Khumaynī said when addressing the people of the Hawza: Desist from these vulgar and exposed differences, stop these parties and wrong divisions, are you people [twelvers] of two religions?

This another vicious & wrong interpretation by you

Accoding to Imam Khomeini(رضي الله عنه)

Allah willing, there is no difference between the community of teachers and revolutionary students, if so, what is it about? On principles or on tastes? Have the respected teachers who have been a strong pillar of the revolution in the seminaries - God forbids - turned their backs on Islam, the revolution and the people? Aren't they the ones who decreed the illegitimacy of the monarchy during the blind struggle? Aren't they the ones who introduced him to the people when a cleric apparently distanced himself from Islam and the revolution in the position of authority? Didn't dear teachers support the front and fighters? If God forbid they are broken, what force will take their place? And don't the arrogant leaders, who have strengthened the religious figures to the point of authority, make another person rule over the domains? Or those who, in the storm of fifteen years of struggle before the revolution and ten years of back-breaking events after the revolution, neither suffered the grief of the struggle nor the sorrow of the war and the administration of the country, nor were they affected by the martyrdom of their loved ones, and with peace of mind The lessons and discussions have been fun. Can they be the support of the Islamic revolution in the future? Indeed,does  the defeat of any faction of revolutionary scholars and students, clerics, militant clergy, and the community of teachers, which faction and movement guarantees victory? The faction that wins is definitely not the clergy, and if that faction necessarily turns to the clergy, which stratum and thinking of the clergy does it really go for? In summary, the difference in any form is crushing. When the forces that believe in the revolution, even in the name of traditional jurisprudence and dynamic jurisprudence, reach the border of frontalism, it will be the beginning of opening the way for the enemies to use it.

https://www.khabaronline.ir/news/639212/خون-دل-خوردن-امام-خمینی-از-مقدسین-روحانى-نما-و-متحجر-بازخوانی

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"Today, there is a dangerous issue, if we were defeated by the Taghut then, we had no hesitation, we had a right, we said that we could not advance and they defeated us. But this is not the issue today, if we make a mistake today that our enemies will fuel it abroad, fuel it internally, and reflect that Islam is like other schools but inferior to them, this is a failure, a failure that It is irreparable" (Ibid.: Vol. 8, p. 273)

 

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"Today is the issue of Islam, we are in a critical time where the matter is  between that God forbid, God forbid, - and it will not happen, God willing - Islam will be buried under our feet and go about its work, and between that we will win, God willing. - and we will - and implement Islam as it is in this country so that everyone knows what Islam is" (Vol. 10, p. 146)

https://howzeh100.ir/?id=8izc05bq

[Ashvazdanghe]

17 hours ago, Zaidism said:

They claim that all those who supported Muḥammad Ḥusayn Faḍlullāh in any manner is as if they have aided in obstructing a pillar from among the sacred Shariah. 

So, consider these Marjaʿīyya:

The fāsiq, and those who attribute fisq. The deviant, and the deemers of deviation. 

According to Sayed Hasan Nasrullah

One or two years after this meeting and at the same time as the rising of some mutual historical and jurisprudential positions by a number of authorities and mujtahidin in Qom, Najaf and Lebanon, one of the former followers of Allameh Seyyed Mohammad Hossein Fazlullah sent a poll to the information base of the official office of   His Highness supreme leadership asked  for his opinion about avoiding imitation of Allamah. In this referendum, he stated that he was an imitator of Allameh Fazlullah before the stance of some great taqlid authorities in Qom and Najaf, but now he is an imitator of the position of supreme leadership: "I, through a collective I became aware of Allameh's imitators, his deviations in his writings, books and statements, and now I ask you to express your opinion as a chapter of the speech. The question is, will his imitators, who have realized the above-mentioned issues, knowing that some authorities have made opinions in the ijtihad and jurisprudence of Allama Fazlullah, will they continue to follow him, or will they refer to a mujtahid who is comprehensive in the laws? »

In response to this referendum, with their own cleverness, while responding to their imitation referendum, the Supreme Leader expressed the fatwa in such a way that not only there is no attack on the scholarly and jurisprudential authority of Allameh, but the issue of deviations which has been raised by asking person has been considered as an "assumption". In response to this poll, he stated: " retraction, in assuming the question is correct." Allah know best"

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This is while at the same time, some of the great authorities of Taqlid in Qom and Najaf, in response to inquiries regarding the special historical and jurisprudential positions of Allamah, especially his opinions about the martyrdom of Hazrat Fatima Zahra, peace be upon her, express their opinions openly and frankly.  On the other hand, some authorities were of the opinion that due to the special social atmosphere of Lebanon and the fact that most of the followers of Allameh Fazlullah live in this country, the conditions and requirements should also be considered in the judgments.

But it seems that what has been published and popularized about Allameh's positions on the subject of the martyrdom of Hazrat Zahra ((عليه السلام).) is in contradiction with his original positions that have also been published in writing, and it is these rumors that have caused upseting some authorities and scholars.

In the second chapter of the book "Al-Zahra al-Qudwa""الزهراء القدوة", Allama Fazlullah tried to explain the oppression of Hazrat Fatima ((عليه السلام).), referring to Sunni sources about the attack on the house of Amir al-Mu'minin Ali ((عليه السلام).) and the persecution of the ladyFatimah (s.a.) has stated clearly that "I, like some scholars, including Ayatollah Seyyed Mohammad Hossein Kashif al-Ghita, I don't deny issue of burning the house, breaking the her majesty's side and chest bone, aborting the fetus, and slapping and beating the her majestyt." I don't deny  because I have no reason to deny it."

https://www.mashreghnews.ir/news/334/گلايه-نصرالله-از-برخي-علماي-قم-و-نجف

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 2/27/2023 at 9:10 AM, Zaidism said:

refer you to Mashraʿat Biḥār al-Anwār by Shaykh Aṣif Muḥsinī wherein he held that only 5% of al-Kāfī is authentic, meaning 95% of it is lies and fabrications against the Ahl al-Bayt. Moreover, if you follow the Rijal method of Sayyid Khu'i you will find that no narration which establishes the birth of the Mahdi is authentic per the conditions of al-Sayyid al-Khu'i and this is attested to by Sayyid Adaab al-Hamash, and al-Sayyid Kamal, as you can see in this video here: 

Salam thisi is another batalnt lie by you because "Mashraʿat Biḥār al-Anwār by Shaykh Aṣif Muḥsinī " is dedeicated about hadiths in Bihar Al anwar not al-Kafi which even previously you have mentioned it that it's about Bihar Al anwar but now you have claimed that is about Al-Kafi   anyway your statement against Al-Kafi is in similar fashion of Wahabists who have compared authencity of Al-kafi with their so called Sahih books which both of you & wahabists couldn't refute authencity of Al-Kafi anyway you chronically repeat false statements by reffering to Mashraʿat Biḥār al-Anwār for denying whether birth or existance of  Imam Mahdi (aj) by using similar dirty tactics of Wahabists which in thread of "Refuting Shaykh al-Mufid's Arguments for the Occultation"your false statements have been refuted but you have repated here your false statements  again.

According to a qoute from  Shaykh Aṣif Muḥsinī

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For this reason, this poor man started to write this margin and the foundation of this "مشرعه" Mashraʿa so that the average people of knowledge know that in "Bihar"; The sea of Allameh Majlisi, may Allah be pleased with him, although it is  seas of light, there is pollutions that harms its drinker, and there are wrong substances that should be avoided, and suspicious objects that make to stop  obligatory  "

https://hawzah.net/fa/Magazine/View/4518/7308/91092/مَشرَعَةُ-بحارالانوار

 

 

 

book of مشرعة بحار الأنوار Mashraʿat Biḥār al-Anwār

https://lib.eshia.ir/11772/1/3

[Ashvazdanghe]

19 hours ago, Zaidism said:

I refer you to Mashraʿat Biḥār al-Anwār by Shaykh Aṣif Muḥsinī wherein he held tha

Criticizing Methodologhy of Mashraʿat Biḥār al-Anwār

1. The basis of the validation of hadiths: As mentioned above, the validation of hadiths based on trustworthiness is contrary to the famous muhaddiths and Shiite jurists, and anyone who has a little research in their works will be aware of this fact. In addition to that, this is against the wisdom of accepting news; Because in the opinion of intellectuals, the document and the speaker are not relevant, and the criterion is a kind of certainty about the correctness of the news. In the creation of this certainty, any factor can be involved, just as if a news is narrated by a trusted person, but due to some reasons, it is not worthy of acceptance, he should think about it and make further investigations. They are considered necessary. In this area, more cannot be said and for further investigation, refer to the sources presented on the previous pages.

  One of the effects of the above-mentioned bad basis is the widespread devaluing of Shia traditions, in such a way that not only should a large part of Shia traditions be ignored, but even the traditions that have a reliable document cannot be trusted; Because if we accept that, for example, 95% of the narrations of Bihar al-Anwar are not trustworthy and have no authority, we implicitly accept that tampering with Shia narrations has been very widespread, then what is the guarantee that the remaining percentage has not been tampered with? Is it acceptable that after thousands and several hundreds of years, we start refining the hadiths with a sense of responsibility, while the imams ((عليه السلام).) and their companions do not have any sense of responsibility towards the hadiths, and let the hands of forgers, superstitious and corrupt people be open to allow forgery and recitation of traditions ? The talk in this field is much more than can be included in an article, therefore, we will be satisfied with this amount. Many of the hadiths that have been rejected by the respected author are in comparison to the verses of the Qur'an, authentic Sunnah, are or reliable hadiths or   they have a proof of reason. In countless cases, a theme, although with documents that are considered weak in the term, is repeated enough to provide some kind of certainty. Is it permissible to make such a deal with Shia traditions?

 

[Muslim2010]

On 2/16/2023 at 10:15 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam you have not answered previous refutations to your claims which all of your previous claims have been based on fabrications & forging for promotion of your wrong interpretation from both of Zaydism  & Twelver shia Islam which in all of previous threads your false claims have been refuted through logic & strong documents & reliable Hadith & holy quran .

The refutations and clear replies to reject his false claims have been presented in these threads many times. The summarized refutations can be seen for those who need this information, at the following link:

 

[shiajafari12]

On 2/15/2023 at 6:36 AM, Zaydism said:

For those interested in learning about the honorable creed of the Ahl al-Bayt (which is embodied by the Zaydiyya), feel free to ask any questions you may have and I will seek to answer with clarity, detail, and reference to primary sources from the very works of the progeny! This thread is not intended to be polemical, as the aim of it is to first clarify. As one may agree, it is unwise to attack a view without first understanding said view. Nonetheless, critical, and rigorous questions are highly encouraged.

my question to you is are the houthis the same as the zaydies?

[niolmo3]

What is the Zaidi position on free will/predestination? It is interesting to know the real position of the Zaidis

[In Gods Name]

On 2/15/2023 at 4:36 PM, Zaydism said:

For those interested in learning about the honorable creed of the Ahl al-Bayt (which is embodied by the Zaydiyya), feel free to ask any questions you may have and I will seek to answer with clarity, detail, and reference to primary sources from the very works of the progeny! This thread is not intended to be polemical, as the aim of it is to first clarify. As one may agree, it is unwise to attack a view without first understanding said view. Nonetheless, critical, and rigorous questions are highly encouraged.

Walaykum Salaam,

Mind if you share any Zaydi primary works brother?

Also, how do you interpret Hadith al-Thaqalayn?