Umra on your own

[Haji 2003]

Had to come out to Riyadh at short notice.

Going to Medina tomorrow (literally just booked the ticket) and then to Mecca (inshallah) for Umra. So where do I do my miqat?

My understanding is that from Medina I can go to the Masjid Shajra to put on the Ihram. But my question is whether I am allowed to go from there to the high speed rail station (that's how I'd like to get from Medina to Mecca).

Also plan B as I understand it is to go to Mecca without Ihram and from there go to Masjid Ayasha and put on the ihram there. Does that sound right?

[Haji 2003]

 

Quote

 

Had to come out to Riyadh at short notice.

Going to Medina tomorrow (literally just booked the ticket) and then to Mecca (inshallah) for Umra. So where do I do my miqat?

 

 

Fwiw the miqat is masjid shajra. advice coming from London based clerics. The Arab Sunni aunties here - agreed with that solution.

And it seems to be not far from the high speed rail link between Medina & Mecca, I think.

Booked the medina hotel at Riyadh airport, so it’s all a bit last minute.

[realizm]

 

Sorry brother, I am absolutely unknowledgeable on those issues. 

Hope you found your answer. 

Maqbool inchaAllah. 

Pray for us and our sick ones there. 

[Hameedeh]

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless and accept your Umra and all your duas and hajaat.  iltemase dua

[ShiaChat Mod]

Maqbool insha Allah. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 2/1/2023 at 12:15 AM, Haji 2003 said:

Also plan B as I understand it is to go to Mecca without Ihram and from there go to Masjid Ayasha and put on the ihram there. Does that sound right?

Salam The Mosque of Tan'im is another name of "Masjid Ayasha" which it has mentioned as place of wearing Ihram for people who live inside Mecca for performing  al-'umra al-mufrada

On 2/1/2023 at 12:15 AM, Haji 2003 said:

My understanding is that from Medina I can go to the Masjid Shajra to put on the Ihram. But my question is whether I am allowed to go from there to the high speed rail station (that's how I'd like to get from Medina to Mecca).

For going from medina to Mecca by high speed train I have not found anything against it which for plan A you must put on the Ihram in the Masjid Shajra

For plan B you can wear Ihram in Masjid Tan'im (Ayasha) .

 

People Not Living in Mecca

According to the majority of Shiite and Sunni jurists, for people who live sixteen parasangs (about ninety kilometers) away from Mecca, there are five miqats: (1) Masjid al-Shajara or Dhu l-Hulayfa, (2) Al-Juhfa, (3) Wadi l-'Aqiq or Dhat 'Irq, (4) Qarn al-Manazil or al-Sayl al-Kabir, and (5) Yalamlam.

Places of Miqat

Residents of Mecca

People inside Mecca who want to perform al-'umra al-mufrada must exit the sanctuary area around Mecca and wrap ihram in the first place that is not part of the haram, although they had better wear their ihram clothes in one of the following three miqats:

Main article: Tan'im

• The Mosque of Tan'im: this miqat is located in the northwestern part of the haram, and is the closest miqat to Mecca. Today, it is adjacent to the city.

• Hudaybiyya: a village on the way from Mecca to Jeddah. It is forty eight kilometers away from al-Masjid al-Haram. This is the place in which about 1300 to 1500 people pledged their allegiance to the Prophet (s) under a tree known as "Hudaba'". The pledge is known as the "Pledge of Ridwan".

• Ji'rana: it is located in the northeastern part of Mecca on the way to Ta'if. It is about twenty nine kilometers away from al-Masjid al-Haram.

 

Quote

Imam al-Sadiq (a) said, "Wearing ihram for 'umra and hajj must be done in the five miqats specified by the Messenger of God (s) … the Prophet (s) specified Dhu l-Hulayfa (Masjid al-Shajara) as a miqat for people of Medina and those who go to Mecca from Medina, and for those who come from Syria (al-Sham), he specified al-Juhfa as a miqat, and for people of Najd and Iraq he specified Wadi l-'Aqiq, and for people of Ta'if and those who cross Ta'if, he specified Qarn al-Manazil, and for people of Yemen and those who cross Yemen, he specified Yalamlam as a miqat … One who wants to visit God's House (that is, the Ka'ba) must not cross any place other than these miqats".

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Miqat

Quote

Miqat

Main article: miqat

Tan'im is considered as "adna l-hill" (that is, the closest place to the limits of haram) and it is one of the miqats (stations) of al-'Umra al-Mufrada.^[2] The Prophet Muhammad (s) ordered 'Abd al-Rahman b. Abi Bakr to take 'A'isha to this place so that she wears the ihram of al-'Umra al-Mufrada.

 

The indicator of the limit of haram installed in the beginning of haram boundary.

^[3]

Masjid al-Tan'im is located in this area. The mosque used to be known as the "Mosque of 'A'isha" as well.^[4] Today, the mosque is located inside the city of Mecca, and the indicators of the limits of haram are installed around it.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Tan'im

https://fa.wikishia.net/view/مسجد_تنعیم

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

In response to the question of why the Prophet (s) wore ihram clothes more often in this miqat, Imam al-Sadiq (a) said, "When the Messenger of God (s) ascended to the Mi'raj and travelled the heavens, he arrived at Masjid al-Shajara, where he was called ‘O Muhammad!’ and he replied, ‘I am at thy service’. He was then told, ‘Did We not find you an orphan and give you refuge? And We found you lost and guided you’. When the Prophet heard this, he said, ‘Thine alone is All Praise and All Bounty, and Thine alone is The Sovereignty. Thou hast no partners’. Thus, the Prophet (s) usually wore ihram in Masjid al-Shajara, rather than other miqats.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Miqat

[VoidVortex]

"Salaam alaikum
From medina the meqat is masjid shajarah
Yes he can go to the train station afterwards in ihram"

 

"No you cannot enter mekka without ihram"

 

- Sheikh Hilli

[Haji 2003]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:45 PM, Haji 2003 said:

Going to Medina tomorrow

The Saudis have created an app called 'Nusuk'.

In order to get access to the part of Masjid Nabawi called the 'Rawdah' where there are some important places to do prayers you have to prebook on the app. It gets full about a week in advance. So I can't get access to that. 

;(

Apparently the same app was being used for getting access to the Harram in Mecca, but is not longer being used. 

[Haji 2003]

On 2/2/2023 at 6:07 PM, Haji 2003 said:

Apparently the same app was being used for getting access to the Harram in Mecca, but is not longer being used.

Actually it is being used.

I went to do Umra last night. They asked for either my Visa or the 'Nusuk app'. The one which is also used in Medina. As I said before for Medina I seemed to be about a week late for my timed entry to the rawdah. For Mecca I could not get the timed entry page to load up at all.

So I showed the security guy that I did have the app (I didn't bring my passport). Helpfully he took my phone, got onto to the booking page and (what do you know) it opens up and he taps some options and he gets me access for four hours.

Later I spoke with a Pakistani chap who refills the water coolers and he said that if you turn up in ihram, they will let you in to do tawaf. While I was doing tawaf, I saw no men in 'civilian clothes', they all had ihram.

As I was coming out several hours later, I am fairly sure I saw people getting in without the app being checked, but can't be certain. No one checked whether I had been there for four hours or more.

Note of caution. In this trip I have been asking around and the situation seems fluid. So don't take the above in any way as reflecting the situation that may be prevailing when you go.

[hamz786]

As Salamu Alaykum, 

Apologies for being off topic, but have you gone for Umrah from the UK and if so which group have you gone with? (unless you've gone alone.)

It's just that I'm hoping to Umrah soon maybe even this year, if Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) allows me, but I've got no clue if there's any Shia led groups that go. 

JazakhAllah Khair!

[Haji 2003]

Back in the UK now. More later. Mashallah it all went off very well, especially given the last minute nature.

Thanks for the replies.

If the same kind of opportunity came up again would I repeat this? 

Absolutely. Can’t speak for anyone else, but the impact on overall happiness, mental health etc is immeasurable.

[Haji 2003]

14 hours ago, hamz786 said:

As Salamu Alaykum, 

Apologies for being off topic, but have you gone for Umrah from the UK and if so which group have you gone with? (unless you've gone alone.)

It's just that I'm hoping to Umrah soon maybe even this year, if Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) allows me, but I've got no clue if there's any Shia led groups that go. 

JazakhAllah Khair!

Yes I am UK based.

This was completely alone, as a side trip to a business trip for my UK employer.

The reason I’ve been posting these questions is that when you go alone, there’s no one to ask or even follow, so you guys and various people I know personally have been the main sources of help.

But I think I covered all my bases in the end.

Personally, my recommendation would be to go and you’d likely need to put some effort in before you go and while you are there to get the most out of everything.

But it’s all very much worth it.

Your local imambara will know who is organising etc. And if you don't have a local ones just approach one of the large UK ones.

Overall my recommendation would be to give preference to going as a group rather than alone. Unless you are very experienced in terms of fiqh etc. and willing to sustain a certain level of risk and uncertainty.

I would not consider myself experienced, but my solitary visits have happened due to me being in the country anyway and it seems churlish to NOT make a side trip - even if it means it's more financially expensive than going as a group. And no one has warned me off to not go alone because there is a risk of making mistakes in terms of the Umra process.

[Haji 2003]

Medina Exhibition

While in Medina, I went to this exhibition (see pic). Apparently one person went through Qur'an and Hadiths and categorised them and this AV exhibition is the result of his effort. The exhibition comprises lots of interactive screens and one of them enables the user to click on the Prophet's physical attributes and get the details for each one.

As the guide (someone leads groups through the exhibition) said everything in it is backed by research. There is also a section on women's rights and the guide pointed out that 'our' religion is based 30% on material provided by a woman.

So far so predictable.

But there was one point where he said that the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) had said that he would intercede on behalf of people (can't remember whether he meant all of them or a proportion) buried in Baqi.

I was stunned. I thought I'd bring up this notice which appears at the entrance of Baqi, but thought better of it. The third paragraph denies the notion of intercession.  

Reading the notice again, isn't there also an inconsistency between No.3 in the first list and No.3 in the last list?

 

There was also a section on the foods the Prophet liked. He asked us to name some. This was a pretty neutral topic, so I thought I'd chip in. I mentioned salt. The guide said no. I was pretty sure about the answer. 

Googling now I find this Sunni source which seems to back up what he said:

https://hadithnotes.org/an-analysis-of-the-hadith-whoever-begins-his-meals-with-salt-will-be-saved-from-seventy-diseases/

 

We have discussed it here and not come to a conclusion:

 

Though in this one Basim Ali provided some positive views:

 

And this al-islam.org entry is positive as well.

https://www.al-islam.org/message-thaqalayn/vol-14-no-2-summer-2013/eating-and-drinking-conduct-prophet-muhammad-m-r-jabbari/eating

Thoughts?

Overall though I think the exhibition is very well put together technically. It's not complete, but when it is I think it will be interactive. The guide was very well spoken and he delivered the presentation very well. No pics of what it is like, because photography is not allowed. The session I attended was in English, but there are presentations in other languages as well.

Some of it is presented along the lines of 'when someone asks you about'. The topic I previously mentioned (women's rights) is framed in terms of the rights of women as mothers, wives and daughters. I think that framing will obviously wind-up the people who have issues with perceived Islamic misogny.

There is a gift shop at the end. I bought a fridge magnet (obviously). Glad I went, but there is also a movie at the end, but it was Thursday and I needed to do Dua Kumayl (by Baqi) and the next day would be a very long one.

[Haji 2003]

1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

There was also a section on the foods the Prophet liked

Just had a long(ish) lecture from my wife that dates and honey are more obvious answers. But those had already been given. And that recommending the benefits of something does not mean favourite ... hmm.

[Haji 2003]

Ghars well

This is one of the ziarats near Medina. There's about 6 taps from which to take water, so it must get really busy when groups arrive. To read the text below click the image, worth reading. 

[Diaz]

Congratulation on your umrah brother, may allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) accepts it and bless you. I was tring to do umrah on my own but reading about your experience, I think it's better if I go with someone who knows about it or a group of people.

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 2/5/2023 at 11:36 AM, Haji 2003 said:

Ghars well

This is one of the ziarats near Medina. There's about 6 taps from which to take water, so it must get really busy when groups arrive. To read the text below click the image, worth reading. 

Salam there are some shia narrations about drinking from it's water making ablution & washing his blessed body with water of Ghars  well however I have not found any realible thing about who has dug it or it's owner which according to wikipedia it has been mentioned in some history sources .

https://lib.eshia.ir/40237/1/391/مَنْزِلِهِ

https://lib.eshia.ir/11025/2/537

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1188_وسائل-الشيعة-آل-البيت-الحر-العاملي-ج-٢/الصفحة_531#top

https://lib.eshia.ir/86664/1/255

 

https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/بئر_غرس

[Haji 2003]

On 2/5/2023 at 1:57 PM, Diaz said:

I was tring to do umrah on my own but reading about your experience

If you have the time, willingness to engage with the published guidance etc., willingness to put up with uncertainty and knowledge about how to deal with curveballs then I would not want to put anyone off. It's certainly a more 'intense' experience on your own. Labbayk is very much that, 'here I am', very much in the singular.

At 3am I had to make a judgement call as to whether just to do more circumambulations of the Ka'aba or take a taxi to Masjid Ayesha to put on Ihram again for another Umra. Within a group that choice can be settled fast, on your own the best you can get for another opinion is a few messages back and forth.

The challenge I had was that not only was I on my own, but literally had 24 hours notice that my employer was able to change my return date and that Umra was possible. This late notice really bumped up prices. BUT, based on local Saudi times etc. my Umrah would be on 13th Rajab. And advice from family was very much to go for it on that account - even if it did mean paying higher prices given the last minute bookings.

I'd done hajj 20 years ago and two umra's previously, so also had some tacit knowledge. There is one other thing that really helps. If you speak Arabic obviously you can ask for help. I don't. But I do speak Urdu and since most taxi drivers, cleaners, menial job people are Urdu/Hindi speaking, that can be very helpful. In some ways more helpful than asking the 'officials', because the workers are happy to share hacks, which officials obviously can't.

Being British I find it hard to strike up conversations with complete strangers the way Americans seem able to do. But I also found it really useful (on elevators) to ask others  if they spoke English and then have a conversation about how to cope with Saudi rules etc. which ones are strictly adhered to and which ones are not.

[Ashvazdanghe]

1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

'd done hajj 20 years ago and two umra's previously

You are now Haji 2023

[hamz786]

@Haji 2003 JazakhAllah Khair for your reply! InshaAllah I'll find a way to get there

[Haji 2003]

Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).) mosque (Madina)

Amongst the Seven Mosques

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Mosques

You are not really supposed to go inside (entrance is locked), but they have these prayer mats to the side of it.

But if you go behind it you can clamber in using these stones as steps:

 

This is the view once you are inside. That's not me btw. 

[Haji 2003]

The first picture shows the extension of the Harram complex in Mecca:

This is the area behind Jabal Umar:

 

Jabal Umar is where the second Caliph's house used to stand

 

[Haji 2003]

Grave of the mother of the 8th Imam (عليه السلام).?

This is in Medina.

[Haji 2003]

The Nusuk app

This is what the booking page looked like when I went in early Feb 2023. No doubt it will change over time. It shows you the booking process for the Rawdah area of the Prophet's ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) Mosque. This is where there are many important locations for praying.

I was there on the 2nd Feb, and as you can see there are no bookable slots until the 7th, and even then, it is showing as really busy. You can also see that you have to book a 30 min slot.

They were very strict about implementing this.

While it is very tempting to criticise Saudis, I think, ultimately, all important religious places will need to have some kind of system like this. It's inevitable.

 

[Haji 2003]

[Dreamcatcher]

Did you catch the high speed rail back then via Masjid e Shajarah? Just want to know for future if possibility of putting on ihram and then going via train is there? i.e. would have to leave the Masjid after Maghrib prayer.

[Haji 2003]

5 hours ago, Dreamcatcher said:

Did you catch the high speed rail back then via Masjid e Shajarah? Just want to know for future if possibility of putting on ihram and then going via train is there? i.e. would have to leave the Masjid after Maghrib prayer.

In the end the driver convinced me to use his services and I was too exhausted to argue, so we drove.

This time around we looked into this while in London and the Saudi Nusuk app seemed to suggest that the train only allows hand luggage. So we dropped that as an option. Now that I am in Saudi my colleagues tell me that suitcases are ok!

Still the car would likely still be the better option for us since my wife's ankle is still painful and walking is difficult (she fell into a balloon in Luxor a couple of months ago). Better than falling out of one I have told everyone.

[Haji 2003]

Change in Medina access rules

So this is the first time I have been personally exposed to this. The business meetings that were previously in Riyadh (this thread was started after one such visit last year) are in Medina this time around. I work for a British organisation so that now means non-Muslims coming to Medina. They're quite respectful - but obviously this is just the start.

There's also the curious issue of non-Muslims in rooms that overlook the mosque and being inconvenienced by Adhaan, while Muslims who might appreciate the view better are in rooms that don't face the mosque.

[Dreamcatcher]

16 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Change in Medina access rules

So this is the first time I have been personally exposed to this. The business meetings that were previously in Riyadh (this thread was started after one such visit last year) are in Medina this time around. I work for a British organisation so that now means non-Muslims coming to Medina. They're quite respectful - but obviously this is just the start.

There's also the curious issue of non-Muslims in rooms that overlook the mosque and being inconvenienced by Adhaan, while Muslims who might appreciate the view better are in rooms that don't face the mosque.

Non-muslims were not allowed in Medina previously? I thought that was only for Makkah. 

It looks like possibility of going by high-speed rail is there. The station is 3.5 km away from haram in Makkah and 22 km away from miqat at Shajarah. 

 

I look forward to it some day. Much faster, safer and convenient than going by road since we have to do it in the dark. Car is better than bus as we were out in the street waiting an hour or two for our bus to arrive in Madinah to go to miqat. Then the stop our bus had between the miqat and Makkah was not exactly clean and maintained.

We were tired from the 4-5 hours journey, went to hotel briefly and by the time our Umrah was done, it was like 5-6 AM. Remember, from Asr to an hour after Fajr the next day was all hectic and is I guess usually unless one ends up sleeping for a few hours when one reaches Makkah but usually everyone wants to get it over with so reaching Makkah quicker is certainly going to help. I almost fainted in the end as had to push father's wheelchair on the first floor due to them not allowing wheel chairs on ground level...

I performed another Umrah alone on ground level again after a day's break and did not feel tired or exhausted.

[Haji 2003]

One proposed museum - two readings

[Haji 2003]

[Haji 2003]

On 9/10/2024 at 1:14 PM, Dreamcatcher said:

but usually everyone wants to get it over with

Also the longer you are in ihram the more likely you are to break one of the rules about what you can’t do!

[Haji 2003]

New process in Baqi - sneaky

They now force you to take a hard right turn as you enter the cemetery. Obviously there is not a lot there of note so you keep walking and that's the new process - keep the ziarene walking, so it's quite difficult to do any ziarats.

Obvious solution is to walk very slowly and/or stop occasionally - which is what me and my son did. This new route makes it even harder to stop by our Imams ((عليه السلام)).

 

[Haji 2003]

Masjid al-Haram Mecca - Salat

This was a new one to me.

The fajr congregational prayers, when you would go into ruckoo, a few people went into sajda. And then when we all got back up, we only went into sajda some time afterwards. My son's explanation was that he'd recited a surah that has a sajda ... hmm.

Not come across that before.