Why is life so difficult for believers?

[flashbolt007]

Momineen believe in Allah, His prophets, the wilayat of Ali ibn e Abi Talib AS, and the 12 imams without seeing or meeting anyone. We have nothing authentic to follow except the Quran because many ahadiths were written falsely. And we cannot follow a person because no one is flawless except the prophets and imams. Then why does Allah not forgive us without judging us and give us all the happiness and prosperity of the world? Momin believes in Allah without seeing him, yet He drowns His believers in the sea of suffering. Why is that?

[Irfani313]

Salam- alter your perspective. 

Sufferings: When they cause you to get closer to Allah through dua, tears, sujood, and connection = Tests in which you aced. 
 

Sufferings: When they cause you to get frustrated, annoyed, become negative, away from worship, doubting Allah = Punishment that He has meted to you for your certain avoidable shortcomings 

The core here is YOU. What you do after sufferings appear make it determine the course you ask Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to chart for you. 
 

Above all Tests, is the test of believing in Ghaeb (that is hidden from you). Believers of today eras are in a way superior to those who saw the Prophet and Imams, as long as they remain faithful. 

[VoidVortex]

Sometimes we create our own sea of suffering. What I mean by that, is sometimes we are the ones who mentally make issues much bigger than they really are. 

Think about it, things like anxiety and stress don't necessarily change the outcome of a situation, yet we still stress and are anxious for no reason. Here we create our own suffering. A ton of suffering is created by how we respond to situations.

On the other hand, for non self-created suffering, if God drowns us in a sea of suffering its out of love for us. God sees what we don't see and knows what we don't know. For example, a person who has never seen beauty gets attached to a piece of metal, but God can see the island full of diamonds and emeralds. The person has to swim however to the island, and they have to bear that hardship to get the thing that is actually precious. One way God elevates us is through suffering. The example I gave is insufficient because the hereafter compared to the world is not even comparable.

Sometimes the hardship is for elevating the individual as it is in the case of Prophets, Imams and pious people. Sometimes its for wiping out our bad deeds because God out of his mercy and compassion wants to rid us of the punishment in the hereafter.

Sheikh Javad Shomali may have videos that you will enjoy:

javad shomali suffering - YouTube

[علوي]

We suffer in this world and are compensated in the Hereafter. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) causes us to suffer in this world so that we can be in the highest station in the Hereafter.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide us all and grant us jannah.

[AliTanjiro]

11 minutes ago, علوي said:

We suffer in this world and are compensated in the Hereafter. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) causes us to suffer in this world so that we can be in the highest station in the Hereafter.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide us all and grant us jannah.

Without bad we wouldn’t know what’s a good. Bad things happen for a reason which helps build who we are. Example for me I know how to deal with specific people at work because I didn’t get paid. Now I suffered a loss but without that mistake I wouldn’t have learnt something new. 
 

another example most people take things for granted. Some people struggle to find water that when they do they are so grateful but some people who have so much access to water are very wasteful and don’t care and would become lost one day if they had nothing. Now if everyone had everything and never suffered you would never know the mercy and blessings of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) 

[Ashvazdanghe]

9 hours ago, flashbolt007 said:

We have nothing authentic to follow except the Quran because many ahadiths were written falsely

Salam this is just rhetoric of Quranists which even through holy Quran it has been confirmed that we must follow both of holy Quran & infallible Imams of Ahlulbayt(عليه السلام) which your statement  is full of paradox which you say in a part of it we must "believe in Allah, His prophets, the wilayat of Ali ibn e Abi Talib AS, and the 12 imams but onth eother hand you deny authencity of Ahadith about following both of holy Quran &  Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) which in opposition of to your claim we have many authentic Ahadith wich are in line with holy Quran which we leave any Hadith which contradics with holy Quran .

[Ashvazdanghe]

9 hours ago, flashbolt007 said:

Momin believes in Allah without seeing him, yet He drowns His believers in the sea of suffering. Why is that?

Salam

We must know that for the Islamic Ummah, there have been no obvious torments like what happened to the past nations due to floods, lightning and earthquakes. But the Muslim Ummah is placed in fields where it is much more difficult to distinguish, that is, the soft battlefield, adornment of Satan and illusion in religion; And in these fields, one should take refuge in Allah's mercy. Satan, whatever he is ugly, be it; Allah is beautiful. And whatever the difficulty, due toAllah's mercy Allah desires ease for you, and He does not desire hardship for you

4. Of course, it should be said; Sometimes it happens that some torments and small troubles in life affects person, so that it becomes a test and awakening of a person, which can also be evaluated as a mercy from the Lord, so that a person comes to his senses and returns to the right path of life, these types of torments of which "Al-Azab Al-Adni"(nearer punishment); It means that a small punishment is interpreted as a sign of Allah's mercy, but the great and final punishments that the nations of the past suffered and referred to as "Al-Azab al-Akbar" (the greater punishment) can not be a source of mercy, but an expression of Allah's wrath:

لَنُذیقَنَّهُمْ مِنَ الْعَذابِ الْأَدْنى‏ دُونَ الْعَذابِ الْأَکْبَرِ لَعَلَّهُمْ یَرْجِعُون»

We shall surely make them taste the nearer punishment prior to the greater punishment, so that they may come back. (21)

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

9 hours ago, flashbolt007 said:

Momin believes in Allah without seeing him, yet He drowns His believers in the sea of suffering. Why is that?

Salam it can be viewed from different angles which sometimes suffering a believer can be for alerting him to not deviate from right pass likewise when a kind sheperd returns an astray sheep by force into flock in order to protects it from dangers which maybe it's looks like sheep suffers from it which from different angle any suffering for beleiever in this world will be compensated with great rewards  in hereafter as permanent blessing while disbelievers may be receive temporary gifts & rewards in this world but in hereafter they will be in eternal suffering due to using  temporary gifts & rewards for increasing their sins.

[layman]

On 1/18/2023 at 4:08 AM, flashbolt007 said:

Momineen believe in Allah, His prophets, the wilayat of Ali ibn e Abi Talib AS, and the 12 imams without seeing or meeting anyone. We have nothing authentic to follow except the Quran because many ahadiths were written falsely. And we cannot follow a person because no one is flawless except the prophets and imams. Then why does Allah not forgive us without judging us and give us all the happiness and prosperity of the world? Momin believes in Allah without seeing him, yet He drowns His believers in the sea of suffering. Why is that?

Salam,

A mukmin not only believe, but he is certain that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), Muhammad (عليه السلام) wa aale Muhammad (عليه السلام) are with him all the time.  His whole exist is at peace (redha), regardless of what happening on the outside world that is beyond his control.  He keeps struggling to do his best to his Rabb, and do good to others while in this world. Suffering will not reduce his peaceful state.

The feel of peace in our nafs is what we need (due to our trust and submission to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and the System that He has established).

That is Islam...For ever peace.  It starts from this world and continues into hereafter.

The whole Surah 89. al-Fajr (The Dawn) may give some answer.

يَا أَيَّتُهَا النَّفْسُ الْمُطْمَئِنَّةُ {27}

[Pickthal 89:27] But ah! thou soul at peace!

ارْجِعِي إِلَىٰ رَبِّكِ رَاضِيَةً مَرْضِيَّةً {28}

[Pickthal 89:28] Return unto thy Lord, content in His good pleasure!

Wallahualam. 

[starlight]

On 1/17/2023 at 2:54 PM, Irfani313 said:

Sufferings: When they cause you to get frustrated, annoyed, become negative, away from worship, doubting Allah = Punishment that He has meted to you for your certain avoidable shortcomings 

I was looking at a short interview of a yazidi girl who got kidnapped at the age of 14 by ISIS. Those monsters then raped everyday for months until she managed to escape.

Little boys get sodomised every day in madrassas in Pakistan with no punishment or accountability whatsoever for their abusers. 

Children in several war and famine stricken areas of the world never get a full meal. Hundreds die a slow painful death after not getting food. 

What did Allah hand out such a strong punishments to these children?

There are so many other incidents where people going to severe hardships. I just used three examples involving children. Tell me, does it make sense to put a child through a test of faith?? If it was test a faith then what was it? Punishment? For what? I hope no parent has to ever live through this but close your eyes for a minute and imagine your child dying after months of chronic starvation, that's such a slow painful death. Or your daughter being brutally raped everyday by a man....several men thrice her size and age,her screaming helplessly and then being left to bleed before being put through the same a few hours later....What exactly has a innocent child done that can justify him being put through this agony? Can you look that yazidi child or that hungry baby in the face and tell ,hey it's fine because these were punishments for your 'certain avoidable shortcomings'? 

I am finding this Islamic concept of trial more and more of a hogwash with each passing day. 

I have more to add but later maybe...

Waiting for your reply with a bated breath. 

[starlight]

On 1/18/2023 at 4:48 AM, علوي said:

We suffer in this world and are compensated in the Hereafter. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) causes us to suffer in this world so that we can be in the highest station in the Hereafter.

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide us all and grant us jannah.

What about those who don't believe in the oneness of Allah- Hindus for example. They are going to burn in hellfire anyway so what's the logic behind their sufferings? 

[Ashvazdanghe]

2 hours ago, starlight said:

What did Allah hand out such a strong punishments to these children?

 

2 hours ago, starlight said:

I am finding this Islamic concept of trial more and more of a hogwash with each passing day. 

Salam certainly it's not due their shortcoming which matter of shrotcoming  & trial is about mature people who have freedom of choice in safe environment which when they claim that theyare real beleivers (Mumin) Allah will put them in trial .

2 hours ago, starlight said:

What exactly has a innocent child done that can justify him being put through this agony? Can you look that yazidi child or that hungry baby in the face and tell ,hey it's fine because these were punishments for your 'certain avoidable shortcomings'? 

This is not their sin which they are victim of shortcomings of their parents & elders which are silent about injustice & oppression due to social pressure or lack of knowlwdge which they follow distorted tradition of their ancestors which in holy Quran when prophets (pbu) have invited people to true path so then majority of people from rich or tyrant rulers have stated that they follow tradition of their ancestors which majority of followers of prophets (pbu) have been from oppressed people by these brutal communities which for example in holy Quran has talked about innocent buried girls which she will be asked for what sin she  has been killed which it means that   anyone who oppressed or killed innocent children will face heavy trial from innocent children although it doesn't mean that we must not do anything but on the other hand we must do anything which we can do against injustice 7 oppression which for example  Yazidi girls have been freed after that Sunnni & shia muslims have united so then thy have fought with Daesh/ISIS terrorists which in similar fashion we must do anything which we can do to help other oppressed people which if we could do something in their favor it's very good anyway even if after our try ,we couldn't help them so then in hereafter Allah will help them  through helping oppreesed people & recording everything in judgment day .

Quote

وَإِذَا الْمَوْءُودَةُ سُئِلَتْ ‎﴿٨﴾‏ بِأَيِّ ذَنبٍ قُتِلَتْ ‎﴿٩﴾

when the girl buried-alive will be asked (8) for what sin she was killed. (9)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/81:8

 

Quote

 وَإِذَا الصُّحُفُ نُشِرَتْ ‎﴿١٠﴾

When the records [of deeds] are unfolded, (10)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/81:10

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

3 hours ago, starlight said:

What about those who don't believe in the oneness of Allah- Hindus for example. They are going to burn in hellfire anyway so what's the logic behind their sufferings? 

It has been said that their deeds won't be forgotten  which if they have done good deeds so then they will receive their reward which punishment will be for  people who aftrter receiving guidance & sending prophets & messengers have rejected true path although they knew that they have been on wrong path but because of their sins so then they have not acepted to follow true path .

Quote

إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَظْلِمُ مِثْقَالَ ذَرَّةٍ ۖ وَإِن تَكُ حَسَنَةً يُضَاعِفْهَا وَيُؤْتِ مِن لَّدُنْهُ أَجْرًا عَظِيمًا ‎﴿٤٠﴾‏

Indeed Allah does not wrong [anyone] [even to the extent of] an atom’s weight, and if it be a good deed He doubles it[s reward], and gives from Himself a great reward. (40)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/4:40

 

Quote

They have certainly denied the truth when it came to them, but soon there will come to them the news of what they have been deriding. (5) Have they not regarded how many a generation We have destroyed before them whom We had granted power in the land in respects that We did not grant you, and We sent abundant rains for them from the sky and made streams run for them? Then We destroyed them for their sins, and brought forth another generation after them. (6)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/6:5

 

Quote

Certainly We destroyed generations before you when they perpetrated wrongs: their apostles brought them manifest proofs, but they would not have faith. Thus do We requite the guilty lot. (13) Then We made you successors on the earth after them that We may observe how you will act. (14)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/10:13

 

Quote

In these verses, the destruction of a population depends on two things, if one of them is not present, Allah's wrath will not come;
- Oppression in its broad sense, that is, abandoning the right path.
- Completion of proof against them; That is, until the prophets show the way and prove the truth and remind them, Allah will not punish the sinners.

https://www.mehrnews.com/news/2107449/چرایی-كيفر-اقوام-پيشين-از-منظر-قرآن-سه-نوع-ستم-از-دید-امام-علی

Quote

By Allah, no people are deprived of the lively pleasures of life after enjoying them, except as a result of sins committed by them, because certainly Allah is not unjust to His creatures. Even then, when calamities descend upon people and pleasures depart from them, they turn towards Allah with true intention and the feeling in their hearts that He will return them everything that has fled from them and cure all their ills.

أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ، إنَّ الدُّنْيَا تَغُرُّ الْمُؤَمِّلَ لَهَا وَالْـمُخلِدَ إِلَيْهَا، وَلاَ تَنْفَسُ بِمَنْ نَافَسَ فِيهَا، وَتَغْلِبُ مَنْ غَلَبَ عَلَيْهَا. وَايْمُ اللهِ، مَا كَانَ قَوْمٌ قَطُّ فِي غَضِّ نِعْمَة مِنْ عَيْش فَزَالَ عَنْهُمْ إِلاَّ بِذُنُوب اجْتَرَحُوهَا، لاِنَّ (اللهَ لَيْسَ بِظَلاَّم لِلْعَبِيدِ) وَلَوْ أَنَّ النَّاسَ حِينَ تَنْزِلُ بِهِمُ النِّقَمُ، وَتَزُولُ عَنْهُمُ النِّعَمُ، فَزِعُوا إِلَى رَبِّهِمْ بِصِدْق مِنْ نِيَّاتِهمْ، وَوَلَه مِنْ قُلُوبِهمْ، لَرَدَّ عَلَيْهِمْ كُلَّ شَارِد، وَأَصْلَحَ لَهُمْ كُلَّ فَاسِد،

I fear about you lest you fall into ignorance (that prevailed before the appearance of the Prophet). In the past there were certain matters in which you were deflected, and in my view you were not worthy of admiration; but if your previous position could be returned to you then you would become virtuous. I can only strive; but if I were to speak I would (only) say may Allah forgive your past actions.

وَإنِّي لاَخْشَى عَلَيْكُمْ أَنْ تَكُونُوا فِي فَتْرَة، وَقَدْ كَانَتْ أُمُورٌ مَضَتْ، مِلْتمْ فِيهَا مَيْلَةً، كُنْتُمْ فِيهَا عِندِي غَيْرَ مَحْمُودِينَ، وَلَئِنْ رُدَّ عَلَيْكُمْ أَمْرُكُمْ إنَّكُمْ لَسُعَدَاءُ، وَمَا عَلَيَّ إلاَّ الْجُهْدُ، وَلَوْ أَشاءُ أَنْ أَقُولَ لَقُلْتُ: عَفَا اللهُ عَمَّا سَلَفَ!

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-178-one-condition-does-not-prevent-him

[flashbolt007]

7 hours ago, starlight said:

I was looking at a short interview of a yazidi girl who got kidnapped at the age of 14 by ISIS. Those monsters then raped everyday for months until she managed to escape.

Little boys get sodomised every day in madrassas in Pakistan with no punishment or accountability whatsoever for their abusers. 

Children in several war and famine stricken areas of the world never get a full meal. Hundreds die a slow painful death after not getting food. 

What did Allah hand out such a strong punishments to these children?

There are so many other incidents where people going to severe hardships. I just used three examples involving children. Tell me, does it make sense to put a child through a test of faith?? If it was test a faith then what was it? Punishment? For what? I hope no parent has to ever live through this but close your eyes for a minute and imagine your child dying after months of chronic starvation, that's such a slow painful death. Or your daughter being brutally raped everyday by a man....several men thrice her size and age,her screaming helplessly and then being left to bleed before being put through the same a few hours later....What exactly has a innocent child done that can justify him being put through this agony? Can you look that yazidi child or that hungry baby in the face and tell ,hey it's fine because these were punishments for your 'certain avoidable shortcomings'? 

I am finding this Islamic concept of trial more and more of a hogwash with each passing day. 

I have more to add but later maybe...

Waiting for your reply with a bated breath. 

Exactly my thoughts.

[VoidVortex]

 

7 hours ago, starlight said:

What about those who don't believe in the oneness of Allah- Hindus for example. They are going to burn in hellfire anyway

this isn't necessarily true:

Reflecting on the Fundamentals – Syed Khomeini on the Salvation of All Who Follow Religion | Sayyid Kamal al-Haydari | Lesson 16 – Iqra Online

[EiE]

Life is challenging for everyone.
Everyone, even those you believe are immune, will face difficulties from time to time. However, as exemplified by the cases provided by bro/sis @starlight some people are dealing with more difficult issues than others.

Personally, I think it's foolish for individuals to try to base their response in a "Islamic" manner, as if there were an answer to this. Because let's face it, there have been over 6 billion people on the planet, are you telling me that none of them had a more difficult life than prophet Ayub or imam Hussein, who are frequently mentioned when discussing difficulties?

[Guest Window]

10 hours ago, starlight said:

re are so many other incidents where people going to severe hardships. I just used three examples involving children. Tell me, does it make sense to put a child through a test of faith?? If it was test a faith then what was it? Punishment? For what? I hope no parent has to ever live through this but close your eyes for a minute and imagine your child dying after months of chronic starvation, that's such a slow painful death. Or your daughter being brutally raped everyday by a man....several men thrice her size and age,her screaming helplessly and then being left to bleed before being put through the same a few hours later....What exactly has a innocent child done that can justify him being put through this agony? Can you look that yazidi child or that hungry baby in the face and tell ,hey it's fine because these were punishments for your 'certain avoidable shortcomings'? 

I am finding this Islamic concept of trial more and more of a hogwash with each passing day. 

I agree with this. The world sucks. Nothing ever seems to go anyone’s way and the world gets sadder with every passing minute.

As an example to back-up your viewpoint, it just sickens me how bad people get to live happy and fulfilling lives. They do all this Haram but still raise healthy and happy families and have perfect spouses. I, for example, never committed zina and I expected to be happy in my marriage for once in my life but I wasn’t happy. In my mind, I did nothing to deserve his horrible treatment when I was nothing but kind to him. In the end, we got divorced and I don’t know if I’ll ever be happy. Everyone I know is having babies and traveling when I got nothing I wanted in my marriage. I didn’t deserve to be treated so poorly. 

[Ashvazdanghe]

18 hours ago, Guest Window said:

how bad people get to live happy and fulfilling lives. They do all this Haram but still raise healthy and happy families and have perfect spouses.

Salam

Imam al-Sadiq's (a) explanation of istidraj:

"When a servant commits a sin, yet he enjoys a profusion of blessings, where the blessings prevent him from asking for God's forgiveness, [then that is istidraj] and he will be taken unawares in a way that he could not think of."

Quote

Istidrāj (Arabic: الإستدراج, literally: graduality) or imla' or imhal (both literally meaning: allowing time), or "gradual destruction" is a divine tradition of indulging sinners in His blessings and their oblivion of asking for His forgiveness before He gradually punishes and destroys them. Some exegetes take "istidraj" to also mean the power to do extraordinary things.

God to increase the material blessings of sinners and make them forget to ask for His forgiveness, and will gradually make them close to His punishment.

Quote

There are two cases of istidraj as pointed out by scholars and exegetes:

Increase in Blessings

One case of istidraj is for God to increase the material blessings of sinners and make them forget to ask for His forgiveness, and will gradually make them close to His punishment. It frequently appears in hadiths. For example, the Prophet (s) said: "when a servant does whatever he wishes and God gives him what he wishes, while the servant persists on his sins, then that would be an istidraj for him."

Extraordinary Powers

It is believed by some exegetes that certain extraordinary actions that can be done by sinners are also cases of istidraj. They take these extraordinary actions to come from Satanic powers given to sinners with the permission of God.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Istidraj

[layman]

On 1/22/2023 at 8:21 PM, EiE said:

Life is challenging for everyone.
Everyone, even those you believe are immune, will face difficulties from time to time. However, as exemplified by the cases provided by bro/sis @starlight some people are dealing with more difficult issues than others.

Personally, I think it's foolish for individuals to try to base their response in a "Islamic" manner, as if there were an answer to this. Because let's face it, there have been over 6 billion people on the planet, are you telling me that none of them had a more difficult life than prophet Ayub or imam Hussein, who are frequently mentioned when discussing difficulties?

Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) suffering for a purpose, to save the future of Muslim Ummah.  Other people sufferings are for what?  There is no comparison! Unless you uninformed about Imam Hussain (عليه السلام).

Yes, people do suffer and I believe Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Just to deal with them in the hereafter (more important life than this world).  The hereafter is no comparison to this world.  Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will take account of all factors, regardless whether they are muslims or not before they are punish.  They are humans.

Wallahualam. 

[VoidVortex]

3 hours ago, layman said:

On 1/22/2023 at 12:21 PM, EiE said:

 

Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) suffering for a purpose, to save the future of Muslim Ummah.  Other people sufferings are for what?  There is no comparison! Unless you uninformed about Imam Hussain (عليه السلام).

the comparison was not about for what a person suffered for, it was for the amount of suffering. The amount of suffering is also emphasised usually hence that's why its being questioned.

It is frequently mentioned that for example X or Y personality suffered the most. 

I'm not convinced by this, its not too hard to find an example in history of someone who may have suffered more at least in the apparent sense. My  question is where did this claim come from? Is it in our books? The claim that X or Y masoom suffered the most in history or something like that.

[starlight]

On 1/22/2023 at 5:00 PM, VoidVortex said:

 

this isn't necessarily true:

Reflecting on the Fundamentals – Syed Khomeini on the Salvation of All Who Follow Religion | Sayyid Kamal al-Haydari | Lesson 16 – Iqra Online

You didn't get my point. Those who committed shirk knowingly are going to get punished, then let them have an easy time in dunya at least 

[starlight]

22 hours ago, layman said:

Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) suffering for a purpose, to save the future of Muslim Ummah.  Other people sufferings are for what?  There is no comparison! Unless you uninformed about Imam Hussain (عليه السلام).

This is no justification! And that's an incredibly callous thing to say btw. 

The rohingaya Muslims didn't ask for it and I am sure they didn't do anything to deserve being butchered like animals. 

You are going to tell the rohingaya women whose has been gang raped and her whole family killed, her house burnt down that her suffering was for nothing? Imam Hussain's suffering matters but what was yours for, really??? 

[layman]

2 hours ago, starlight said:

This is no justification! And that's an incredibly callous thing to say btw. 

The rohingaya Muslims didn't ask for it and I am sure they didn't do anything to deserve being butchered like animals. 

You are going to tell the rohingaya women whose has been gang raped and her whole family killed, her house burnt down that her suffering was for nothing? Imam Hussain's suffering matters but what was yours for, really??? 

Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) suffering teaches the ummah to wake up and stand up against injustice wherever it happen.  That remembrance of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) sufferings give us inner strength to stand up and ready to fight for a cause (fighting real injustice).  Example has been set.

As for Rohingya women who were gang raped, as person who believes in Imam Hussain (عليه السلام), should stand up and fight to defend the right of these women, because they were oppressed. Those who did the crime must be punished and those women that were raped should be taken care of.  Lessons learned from Karbala (sufferings of Imam Hussain) that followers of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) should prepared them not to keep quiet and watch gross injustice to occur without opposition.  

Gross injustices against humanity occur all the time.  To stand up against these injustice, we need inner strength and belief. Imam Hussain's(عليه السلام) sufferings set the example that we may die and loss everything in order to help the religion /people from being oppressed.

[VoidVortex]

9 hours ago, starlight said:

On 1/22/2023 at 12:00 PM, VoidVortex said:

 

You didn't get my point. Those who committed shirk knowingly are going to get punished, then let them have an easy time in dunya at least 

the article answers this point. Apparently it seems sayed Khomeini believes that Buddhist laymen and even Buddhist scholars or Wahabbi scholars can achieve salvation, because of something called the principle of certainty.

Quote

This is a fundamental principle, that there exists a certainty producing proof and that a persons actions reflect what he believes. And that he is truthful to what he believes and acts sincerely in accordance to it. Such a person will be saved on the Day of Judgement. It isn’t important whether the person was amongst the people of Truth or not. Neither is it important whichever religion or faith he comes from, and whether the practices he adheres to come from a Divine message (like the Abrahamic faiths) or they don’t.

 So its not a case of those who committed shirk knowingly but fully believed in their faith will be put to hell under this view. Apparently salvation is possible for them. the ones to be punished are the ones who knew their religion was false and arrogantly denied the true religion. 

 

Quote

 

As for their scholars, due to the indoctrination, they have had since childhood and from living in an environment of disbelief, the majority of them have become certain and believe in their religion [as the Truth] and see all other religions as false. Because of this, everything they see that contradicts their religion they refute it with their intellects that had been fashion from their early age in opposition to the Truth.  The Jewish scholar and the Christian scholar is just like the Muslim scholar, they do not consider the proof of other religions to be correct, and they reject the proof [against them] like it was essential to them,  on the basis that their own religion is absolutely correct and there is no option to entertain [ideas to] the contrary of it. ^[4]

This is what Syed Khomeinī has to say on this. He also mentions the “majority” of them (like I mentioned in the beginning). Why? Because (just like the laymen) they too consider that the Truth is in their religion, their jurisprudence, their way of thinking and their creed. I would add to what Syed Khomeinī has said and said that even the Buddhist scholars, the Sunni scholars, the Ash’ari scholars etc, all of them are to be exonerated (ma’dhῡr).

 

even scholars are exonerated, as long as the conditions are met. 

 

[starlight]

On 1/25/2023 at 2:57 AM, VoidVortex said:

So its not a case of those who committed shirk knowingly but fully believed in their faith will be put to hell under this view. Apparently salvation is possible for them. the ones to be punished are the ones who knew their religion was false and arrogantly denied the true religion. 

 

Then this nullifies the concept that people are tested because of their faith! 

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 1/23/2023 at 9:31 PM, VoidVortex said:

My  question is where did this claim come from? Is it in our books? The claim that X or Y masoom suffered the most in history or something like that.

Salam it's possible that someone has been suffered more physicaly or from mistreating  his family but on the other hand nobody has suffered in similar fashion of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) from seeing spreading corruption & devation of original teaching of Islam which majorit of people except few ones have not been caring about it also they have not wanted fixing these problems by refering & returning back to Imam Husaain (عليه السلام) which he has been only solution for fixing their problems & curing their spiritual & mind disease which Imam hussain (عليه السلام) 7 rest of infallible Imams always have felt heavy burden of helping people while majority of people have been rejecting them which this suffering & burden for Imam hussain (عليه السلام) has been greater & heavier than rest of Imams because he has been last of people of cloack from Ahlulbayt( as) which it has been said that all of Imams are likewise ark of salvation but ark of Imam hussain (عليه السلام) is greater & broader than all of them.

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 1/24/2023 at 3:41 PM, starlight said:

suffering was for nothing?

 

Brussels based the International Crisis Group (ICG) in its 2016 report titled :Myanmar: A new Muslim insurgency in Rakhaine state" said Arsa is directed by Rohingyas based in Mecca and Medina. 

The pedigree of Arsa leader Ataullah Abu Ammar Jununi, who often appears in videos to castigate the Myanmar junta's actions, is also worrisome. He was born in Karachi in Pakistan and raised in Saudi Arabia, the breeding ground for Wahabism. 

 

Quote

ICG also says Arsa gets its funding from Rohingya diaspora as well as from major private donors in Saudi Arabia and the Middle East.

Although so far nobody is saying that Arsa has any religious motivation in its struggle, but Islamist outfits like the IS and al-Qaeda look out for such Muslim enraged groups to raise their army of extremists. It is now anybody's guess whether Arsa will be drawn into such a cauldron in future.

 

about Uighurs

China Doesn't Mind Islamic Extremists: As Long as They're Not Uighur

 

Quote

When Ma asked Hussein if their school had trouble operating because of its Salafi association, Hussein frowned. "Foreign media is messing things up by saying Salafis are extremists. The government doesn't interfere with us," he said.
 

 

Quote

Chinese authorities have historically associated religion with ethnic separatism, unwanted foreign influence, and domestic turmoil. In the 19th century, sectarian Islamic clashes and an apocalyptic Christian revolt led to the deaths of millions of people in the country's south and west.

 

Quote

In recent days, the rise in violent extremism and radical jihad around the world has also left China grappling with its own terrorist incidents, including a knife attack at the Kunming train station in 2014, another attack on a coal mine in Aksu in 2015, and a car bombing at the Chinese Embassy in Kyrgyzstan this fall.

 

Quote

Yet in many Muslim-majority parts of China, ideologies commonly associated with extremism are flourishing. Salafism

 

Quote

namely, the Uighurs, an Islamic ethnic minority in the western regions of China, especially the tumultuous and massive border province of Xinjiang. There, an ongoing and brutal state crackdown is exacerbating ethnic tensions and violent resistance. The authorities speak of terrorism as an ideological problem while treating it as an ethnic one, trying to contain it in Xinjiang without admitting to discriminatory treatment of Uighurs.

 

Quote

Thus an actively proselytizing Hui Salafi in Lanzhou enjoys more freedom than a secular Uighur in Kashgar. One result of this discord between policy and practice is the alienation of Uighurs from Hui, who seek distance from Uighurs for their own survival. Another is the self-fulfilling prophecy of Uighur radicalization, as discrimination pushes the minority toward extremist narratives.

 

Quote

This May, in Lanzhou, in Xinjiang's neighboring province of Gansu, I met a Hui Muslim named Abdelhalim, whose family had enough wealth from their successful halal lamb restaurant chain to open a private mosque and madrasa. He showed me stacks of booklets on the life and teaching of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, the founder of Wahhabism, inside the mosque library. "I got these for free when I went to Saudi Arabia for hajj," Abdelhalim told me proudly. The only other free books he had in the library were compilations of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels's teachings. "Those were gifts from the government," Abdelhalim said. "We keep them on the bottom shelf."

 

Quote

a prominent imam who'd studied in Saudi Arabia told me he'd taught informal Islamic classes at Lanzhou University and the Northwest University for Nationalities for five years. There was no problem — until 2015, when he was arrested and detained in Xinjiang for several months because authorities found that a few Uighur students had begun attending his weekend lectures. Gansu authorities negotiated to bring the imam back, but he no longer teaches, and no Uighurs attend his mosque.

 

Quote

One reason Beijing prioritizes Uighur separatism as a bigger threat than Hui sectarianism is because Xinjiang independence is a real possibility — and has been actualized for brief periods in the past, in the 1930s and 1940s. The Uighurs speak a Turkic language and are ethnically and linguistically distinct from Han Chinese.

 

Quote

Mohammed al-Sudairi, a Ph.D. candidate at the University of Hong Kong who researched the connection between Hui Muslims and Saudi Salafis in northwestern China, said he found many schools there using texts from abroad. "

 

Quote

Lots of schools in Guanghe and Linxia [Muslim-populated towns in Gansu] were using Saudi high school textbooks. They're the same books on fiqh [Islamic legal scholarship], tawhid [divine oneness], and so on that we used growing up in Saudi Arabia, probably brought back and copied by Chinese students who'd been at Madinah University," Sudairi told me.

https://pulitzercenter.org/stories/china-doesnt-mind-islamic-extremists-long-theyre-not-uighur

https://mesbar.org/salafism-china-jihadist-takfiri-strains/

https://www.fpri.org/article/2019/12/roundtable-the-uyghurs-china-and-islamist-terrorism/

If China Is Anti-Islam, Why Are These Chinese Muslims Enjoying a Faith Revival?

Quote

The road to Linxia, in China’s vast, sere northwest, is known locally as the Quran Belt, with a profusion of newly built mosques and Sufi shrines lining the motorway. Some are built in a traditional Chinese style, with pagoda-like eaves; others, with their green tiled domes, echo Middle Eastern architecture.

https://time.com/3099950/china-muslim-hui-xinjiang-uighur-islam/

https://thediplomat.com/2014/10/chinese-salafism-and-the-saudi-connection/

[PureExistence1]

On 1/24/2023 at 1:57 PM, VoidVortex said:

the article answers this point. Apparently it seems sayed Khomeini believes that Buddhist laymen and even Buddhist scholars or Wahabbi scholars can achieve salvation, because of something called the principle of certainty.

 So its not a case of those who committed shirk knowingly but fully believed in their faith will be put to hell under this view. Apparently salvation is possible for them. the ones to be punished are the ones who knew their religion was false and arrogantly denied the true religion. 

 

even scholars are exonerated, as long as the conditions are met. 

 

Salaam brother, can you provide rhe reference for the article you quoted here? Id like to study this a bit more but have no idea where to...

 

JazakAllahkheyr

[Cool]

On 1/18/2023 at 1:08 AM, flashbolt007 said:

Then why does Allah not forgive us without judging us and give us all the happiness and prosperity of the world?

Salam!!

Because you need to prove to yourself whether you are truthful in what you are claiming i.e., all what you mentioned earlier:

On 1/18/2023 at 1:08 AM, flashbolt007 said:

Momineen believe in Allah, His prophets, the wilayat of Ali ibn e Abi Talib AS, and the 12 imams without seeing or meeting anyone. We have nothing authentic to follow except the Quran because many ahadiths were written falsely. And we cannot follow a person because no one is flawless except the prophets and imams.

Lets see a verse what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is saying:

أَحَسِبَ النَّاسُ أَنْ يُتْرَكُوا أَنْ يَقُولُوا آمَنَّا وَهُمْ لَا يُفْتَنُونَ {2}

[Shakir 29:2] Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, We believe, and not be tried?

And the test/trail is related to our claim (i.e., our acceptance that "we believe or we submit":

وَلَقَدْ فَتَنَّا الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِهِمْ ۖ فَلَيَعْلَمَنَّ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا وَلَيَعْلَمَنَّ الْكَاذِبِينَ {3}

[Shakir 29:3] And certainly We tried those before them, so Allah will certainly know those who are true and He will certainly know the liars.

Allah's (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knowledge is already perfect, there cannot be any increase in it. So it is we who know whether we are truthful in our claim or not. It rests on us to prove to God Almighty that we indeed are truthful in our claims. This is also mentioned in several verses of Quran.

On 1/18/2023 at 1:08 AM, flashbolt007 said:

Momin believes in Allah without seeing him, yet He drowns His believers in the sea of suffering. Why is that?

First of all, as a mo'min your belief is that you will not be given anything beyond your capacity:

لا يكلف الله نفسا الا وسعها

Now what is the reason for this sort of complaint? If you think yourself a raw gold, you need to go through the process (sufferings/trails/pains) to attain the polished/finished form. And each & every step of the process would not do anything except giving you a better shape/form from the earlier stage. 

On 1/18/2023 at 1:08 AM, flashbolt007 said:

Then why does Allah not forgive us without judging us and give us all the happiness and prosperity of the world?

Again if you are a mo'min, you must be in a state of contentment about forgiveness because of the following divine words:

و كان حق علينا نصر المومنين

30:47

و كذالك حق علينا ننج المومنين

10:103

So your help & your salvation has been made obligatory on Himself by your Almighty Lord. So why so worried about it?

Wassalam!!

Edited April 1 by Cool

[PureExistence1]

2 hours ago, Cool said:

Salam!!

Because you need to prove to yourself whether you are truthful in what you are claiming i.e., all what you mentioned earlier:

Lets see a verse what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is saying:

أَحَسِبَ النَّاسُ أَنْ يُتْرَكُوا أَنْ يَقُولُوا آمَنَّا وَهُمْ لَا يُفْتَنُونَ {2}

[Shakir 29:2] Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, We believe, and not be tried?

And the test/trail is related to our claim (i.e., our acceptance that "we believe or we submit":

وَلَقَدْ فَتَنَّا الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِهِمْ ۖ فَلَيَعْلَمَنَّ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا وَلَيَعْلَمَنَّ الْكَاذِبِينَ {3}

[Shakir 29:3] And certainly We tried those before them, so Allah will certainly know those who are true and He will certainly know the liars.

Allah's (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knowledge is already perfect, there cannot be any increase in it. So it is we who know whether we are truthful in our claim or not. It rests on us to prove to God Almighty that we indeed are truthful in our claims. This is also mentioned in several verses of Quran.

First of all, as a mo'min your belief is that you will not be given anything beyond your capacity:

لا يكلف الله نفسا الا وسعها

Now what is the reason for this sort of complaint? If you think yourself a raw gold, you need to go through the process (sufferings/trails/pains) to attain the polished/finished form. And each & every step of the process would not do anything except giving you a better shape/form from the earlier stage. 

Again if you are a mo'min, you must be in a state of contentment about forgiveness because of the following divine words:

و كان حق علينا نصر المومنين

30:47

و كذالك حق علينا ننج المومنين

10:103

So your help & your salvation has been made obligatory on Himself by your Almighty Lord. So why so worried about it?

Wassalam!!

Salaam, i totally agree with all this, but....there are some things in life that really make me question the "not giving us more than we can handle", especially things like severe chronic pain that isn't helped by meds that totally ruins life and makes a person almost bedridden and affects everyone around you so bad that rhe person really doesnt want to be alive anymore, but what can they do? They believe in Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and everything you mentioned but the pain is too much.

Of course, there are worse things than this, but for those living with chronic unreleivable unrelenting pain, the psychological, physical and spiritual pain it causes makes life not worth living. Ive seen this first hand...

[Cool]

5 hours ago, PureExistence1 said:

but....there are some things in life that really make me question the "not giving us more than we can handle", especially things like severe chronic pain that isn't helped by meds that totally ruins life and makes a person almost bedridden and affects everyone around you so bad that rhe person really doesnt want to be alive anymore, but what can they do? They believe in Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and everything you mentioned but the pain is too much.

Salam Sister!

The question you have posed, needs a lengthy response.

So we can agree on one thing and that is related to the principle of test & trial. No one knows what is going to come before him, how Almighty Lord test him?

What we know is that the "fitnah" i.e., trial could be anything related to our wealth (our state of richness or poorness), our offspring, our parents, wife/husband, our health our sickness or even anything present around us.

In that, one may become a test for other i.e., a person with severe chronic pain could be a fitnah for others. How can anyone knows the value of health unless he sees the pain/disease? How can anyone act upon the divine commands, for instance, of not saying "uff" to his/her parents without being involved in a state, without being traped in a situation where he got the opportunity to say "uff" to his parents? 

A child born with any disability or pain, his pain has nothing to do with his/her emaan rather he/she is an object of test for other's emaan. In that, the new born face sufferings/pain, he may not realize the reason of his suffering/pain but through him, a qalb-e-saleem, realizes how everything serves the divine purpose. 

6 hours ago, PureExistence1 said:

and makes a person almost bedridden and affects everyone around you so bad that rhe person really doesnt want to be alive anymore, but what can they do?

Apparently, the death itself is a suffering. So anyone's idea that his end of life would be a mean to get rid of the pain he is suffering with, could be wrong. For instance, the pain in hell is something that will be tasted after the end of this worldly life.

Can we ever get rid of the thing which we know as "life"? If not, then the wish of "not living anymore" could only be a wish and perhaps it could also be a dua of ending up the suffering.

Neither our suffering starts with our will nor it ends by our will. There is no suffering which is beyond our qudrat (capacity). 

Our belief as a mo'min that "we belongs to Allah", is not conditional with our state (of health or pain), it is unconditional and is irrespective of whether we are in any state. Our this "belonging" to Him itself is a point to reflect on, specifically if a person is in severe chronic pain, bedridden, unable to help himself or cure himself. 

I view the wujood of such believers as life giving objects. They are serving the divine purpose bodily and in the depth of their hearts, I can sense the words تسليما لأمره، ورضا بقضائه. 

This تسليم & رضا is the true end of every suffering. The early one come to realize this state of contentment, the early he will get rid of "sufferings". 

One more thing I would like to relate here. That is the stories of Prophets. The sufferings of Prophet Ayyub (عليه السلام) for instance. Never did Prophet Ayyub lament, grow angry, or reject the fate which Allah had decreed for him. Day and night, throughout the pain and difficult times, Prophet Ayyub would praise his Lord. 

So there certainly is an end to every suffering, there certainly is an ease with every difficulty. It all rests on us how quickly we make our selves realize that.

Wassalam!!

[shiajafari12]

On 1/17/2023 at 12:08 PM, flashbolt007 said:

Momineen believe in Allah, His prophets, the wilayat of Ali ibn e Abi Talib AS, and the 12 imams without seeing or meeting anyone. We have nothing authentic to follow except the Quran because many ahadiths were written falsely. And we cannot follow a person because no one is flawless except the prophets and imams. Then why does Allah not forgive us without judging us and give us all the happiness and prosperity of the world? Momin believes in Allah without seeing him, yet He drowns His believers in the sea of suffering. Why is that?

I think just like you have to earn income from work you also have to earn heaven and happiness by working hard towards it and praying sincerely and making a lot of duah and dhikr.

[PureExistence1]

16 hours ago, Cool said:

Salam Sister!

The question you have posed, needs a lengthy response.

So we can agree on one thing and that is related to the principle of test & trial. No one knows what is going to come before him, how Almighty Lord test him?

What we know is that the "fitnah" i.e., trial could be anything related to our wealth (our state of richness or poorness), our offspring, our parents, wife/husband, our health our sickness or even anything present around us.

In that, one may become a test for other i.e., a person with severe chronic pain could be a fitnah for others. How can anyone knows the value of health unless he sees the pain/disease? How can anyone act upon the divine commands, for instance, of not saying "uff" to his/her parents without being involved in a state, without being traped in a situation where he got the opportunity to say "uff" to his parents? 

A child born with any disability or pain, his pain has nothing to do with his/her emaan rather he/she is an object of test for other's emaan. In that, the new born face sufferings/pain, he may not realize the reason of his suffering/pain but through him, a qalb-e-saleem, realizes how everything serves the divine purpose. 

Apparently, the death itself is a suffering. So anyone's idea that his end of life would be a mean to get rid of the pain he is suffering with, could be wrong. For instance, the pain in hell is something that will be tasted after the end of this worldly life.

Can we ever get rid of the thing which we know as "life"? If not, then the wish of "not living anymore" could only be a wish and perhaps it could also be a dua of ending up the suffering.

Neither our suffering starts with our will nor it ends by our will. There is no suffering which is beyond our qudrat (capacity). 

Our belief as a mo'min that "we belongs to Allah", is not conditional with our state (of health or pain), it is unconditional and is irrespective of whether we are in any state. Our this "belonging" to Him itself is a point to reflect on, specifically if a person is in severe chronic pain, bedridden, unable to help himself or cure himself. 

I view the wujood of such believers as life giving objects. They are serving the divine purpose bodily and in the depth of their hearts, I can sense the words تسليما لأمره، ورضا بقضائه. 

This تسليم & رضا is the true end of every suffering. The early one come to realize this state of contentment, the early he will get rid of "sufferings". 

One more thing I would like to relate here. That is the stories of Prophets. The sufferings of Prophet Ayyub (عليه السلام) for instance. Never did Prophet Ayyub lament, grow angry, or reject the fate which Allah had decreed for him. Day and night, throughout the pain and difficult times, Prophet Ayyub would praise his Lord. 

So there certainly is an end to every suffering, there certainly is an ease with every difficulty. It all rests on us how quickly we make our selves realize that.

Wassalam!!

Salaam, i appreciate you taking the time to write all this out, and while it is all without doubt true, it doesn't change the state of misery that searing hot burning chronic nerve pain causes or the despair the knowledge that there is no cure therfore end in sight to it has on that person..and when it gets THAT bad, all the things you've mentioned go out the window for that person and all they want is to finally have peace at whatever cost it takes. Pain has a serious way of ruining every aspect of a person, unfortunately.

Wasalaam

[layman]

https://youtu.be/xa5P02Q4Mc4

Salam, maybe the above link can help.  The topic "Why is life so hard?".  

[JourneyOfmySoul]

Wa alaykumussalam,

Regardless of the religious obligation of obedience to God, our intellect and sense of reasoning compel us to show gratitude to the one who has benefitted us in some way or has given us what we could not have done without and provided us with what we could not have survived without. Even the disbelievers are subject to this fitrah if we go down to interpersonal level. 

I remember in a spiderman movie, his grandmother says to him about his spider powers, "With great power comes great responsibility". If man has been given an intellect, he is made superior to all creation, so it becomes his responsibility to govern the world in a rightly guided and just manner, starting from himself and his immediate surroundings. Not to mention the unlimited other blessings he has pertaining to his body and its health to allow him to experience life. This adds to his responsibility of both, gratification and justice.

That said, to think believing in Him and obeying Him is a favor returnable with other favors back from Him does not make sense. Favors such as allowing you to walk in this world as a free, conceited, carefree man who has nothing to learn and nothing to accomplish because everything is a piece of cake already, is not a favor, nor a blessing. This is far from His mercy and wisdom, a type that is most potently reflected in the behavior of parents with their child. Think about it, why doesnt a person eat his favorite food everyday, all day, but restricts himself from doing so, sometimes even deprives himself of it? Why cant he just make himself happy all the time and do what he loves since its his body and he has control over it?

The authority against injustices that are not in a man's hand, are but in another's. Religion has come to rectify this very imbalance, so that societies are aligned to the correct beliefs and behavior as a whole and not be a cause of the destruction of one another. Life could be made easy by working together which is the very opposite of what shaytan has made us strive for and turned the whole system upside down.  This is what Imam Mahdi AS is going to fix, may Allah hasten his reappearance.

Coming down to personal sufferings, there is infinite wisdom behind it. There could be no emotions, learning, striving, understanding or ability to do justice or even see it without suffering in this world. You wouldnt be who you are today were it not for what you have suffered through. Sometimes unhealthy attachments could also cause extra suffering, or even deficiency in reliance on God. However, suffering is not always painful and undesirable because for the believer who sees the wisdom and benefit in it, it becomes a source of comfort and advantage for him, even enjoyable as he moves closer to God through it and what could be more delightful for him than that.

Allah judges because whats yours has to come to you and what is another's has to be taken from you. When we choose to be on the truth's side, this is what we do.

We do not comprehend the magnanimity of His forgiveness so its not appropriate to assume He will punish us when we tried our best yet failed. Its always best to hope for His mercy and remember it when we feel constricted by our actions. Intention and sincerity are easy to make, but very difficult to remember. If you remember to uphold these every second of your life, you will be saved.