Colourism

[Haji 2003]

Short Al Jazeera video about it

Slightly twisted logic. One of the commentators says that south Asians preferring light skin is a legacy of British colonial rule. Hmm. Well kinda.

They also show classical Indian paintings (pre-dating the British) which show fair coloured people in positions of power, but aren't explicit about the fact that colourism is an age old Indian thing. Perhaps the result of each new wave of immigrants pushing the locals further south.

Likely reinforced by the fact that wealth means being able to cover yourself and not be outside in the noonday sun.

 

[Marbles]

"Don't play in the sun too much or you'll become dark/black." Every South Asian mother has at one time or another said those words to their kids.

I have never really quite believed that colourism originated or even became more pronounced due to the British colonial rule.

There are multiple reports from the Sultanate period where the light-skinned Muslims who had roots in Afghanistan, Persia and Turkey looked down upon the local Indian Muslims because of the colour of their skin as well as their facial features (which they believed were less attractive than people from the Eastern Muslim heartlands). 

This could be the genesis of colourism that became so ingrained later on. The light skinned ones were rich and they ruled. The dark-skinned ones, either Muslim converts or Hindus, were the common people. So with time light skin came to denote wealth and prosperity.

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Marbles

[Haji 2003]

11 hours ago, Marbles said:

I have never really quite believed that colourism originated or even became more pronounced due to the British colonial rule.

Yes, it goes back much much further.

Quote

For example, Brahmins, no matter where they’re from in India, tend to have allele A. Another example: In one South Indian group, the Saurashtrians, 70 percent of people have allele A. It’s believed Saurashtrians moved south from a more northern region during the Middle Ages, when Southern Indian kings invited them to the area for their silk weaving skill. All of this contrasts with SLC24A5 in Europeans, in whom allele A is nearly ubiquitous, and appears almost entirely driven by evolution.

https://www.popsci.com/article/science/how-gene-fair-skin-spread-across-india/

[Ashvazdanghe]

12 hours ago, Marbles said:

Persia and Turkey looked down upon the local Indian Muslims because of the colour of their skin as well as their facial features (which they believed were less attractive than people from the Eastern Muslim heartlands). 

Salm respectfully I disagree about your statement about Persia which maybe some migrants likewise Parsis & Brahmans have had this type of racism but on the on the hand Persian muslims always have believed that Indian muslims are equal to them also reffering to Indian in Iranian poems & literature likewise poesms of Hafiz has meant being too attractive which in a famous poem Hafiz has told that he will give Samarqand & Bukhara to an Indian woman just for her Hindu mole also  as I remember since my childhood until now Indian movies have been very popular in Iran which even Iraninas never have had negative feeling about too much dark skin Indians which even if you search about exprience of Indian vloggers in youtube you only will find their surprise from too much welcoming Iranians to Indians which even they have seen influnce of Indian culture on young Iranians & hosting warmly Indian vloggers in iranian muslim houses whether they have  been hindu or not which when Iranians loves Hindus so therefore their love & attraction toward Indian muslims specially shias is not measurable.

[AbdusSibtayn]

7 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

reffering to Indian in Iranian poems & literature likewise poesms of Hafiz has meant being too attractive which in a famous poem Hafiz has told that he will give Samarqand & Bukhara to an Indian woman just for her Hindu mole

"...بخالِ هندويش بخشم سمرقند و بخارا را"

Also if I remember correctly the sallow-complexioned, dark-eyed, coy Indian damsel as an epitome of feminine beauty passed into Urdu poetry from Farsi poetry itself. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

20 hours ago, Marbles said:

This could be the genesis of colourism that became so ingrained later on. The light skinned ones were rich and they ruled. The dark-skinned ones, either Muslim converts or Hindus, were the common people. So with time light skin came to denote wealth and prosperity.

Makes me wonder how it came to be so. Most venerated ancient Indic gods (Rama, Krishna, Shiva) are traditionally held to have dark complexions. This indicates that atleast in the ancient period, skin color was not too big a deal as far as prestige was concerned. 

[Marbles]

14 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Makes me wonder how it came to be so. Most venerated ancient Indic gods (Rama, Krishna, Shiva) are traditionally held to have dark complexions. This indicates that atleast in the ancient period, skin color was not too big a deal as far as prestige was concerned. 

Yes, this is a pertinent observation. Even one of the epithets of Krishna is the Dark Lord (dark-skinned one). I suppose it developed later on with waves of migration of the light-skinned people from the East who then became wealthy rulers. This predates Islamic conquests of India but colourism was already entrenched by the time of the Sultanate Period.

21 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salm respectfully I disagree about your statement about Persia which maybe some migrants likewise Parsis & Brahmans have had this type of racism but on the on the hand Persian muslims always have believed that Indian muslims are equal to them also reffering to Indian in Iranian poems & literature likewise poesms of Hafiz has meant being too attractive which in a famous poem Hafiz has told that he will give Samarqand & Bukhara to an Indian woman just for her Hindu mole also  as I remember since my childhood until now Indian movies have been very popular in Iran which even Iraninas never have had negative feeling about too much dark skin Indians which even if you search about exprience of Indian vloggers in youtube you only will find their surprise from too much welcoming Iranians to Indians which even they have seen influnce of Indian culture on young Iranians & hosting warmly Indian vloggers in iranian muslim houses whether they have  been hindu or not which when Iranians loves Hindus so therefore their love & attraction toward Indian muslims specially shias is not measurable.

I'm not talking about the Persians' attitudes towards Indians as a whole but of the light-skinned rulers who came to rule the north and northwest India. Most of those rulers were Afghans or of Turkic origins.

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 12/23/2022 at 11:38 AM, Marbles said:

I'm not talking about the Persians' attitudes towards Indians as a whole but of the light-skinned rulers who came to rule the north and northwest India. Most of those rulers were Afghans or of Turkic origins

Salam this is totall nosense because based on historiacall fact so called "light-skinned rulers " have had Mughal origin which they have stablished greatest muslim empire of India also since midst of Qajar Era region so called modern Afghanistan has been a part of Iran which during Mughal era of India many great viziers & advisors & warriors have traveled  through it to India which majority of them have reached to highest position in Mughal empire which even some of them from men  have married with Mughal princess oo insimilar fashion their daughters have married with elite Mughal men which there is a famous story by name of "The Twentieth Wife "  which an Iranian origin woman by name of Mehrunnisa by title of Nur Jahan has became "the most famous Empress of Mughal India" which until conquering India by British colonoalism official language of Mughal dynasty has been Farsi/Persian due to high influence & presence of Iranians  which influnce of Ottomans or Turks has  been not significant which Ottomans only could invade & conquer a little part of indai through attacking from sea which it has too little  influence on India & it's rulers even indian people anyway it's possible because Iranian migrants from Safavid royals to Mughal court have been using both of Farsi & turkish as it has been common between Safavids so therefore due panturk propganda they have introduces as people by Turkish origin which in similar fashion because they have came to India through Afghanistan region so therefore biased people have called as Afghans.

Quote

The Twentieth Wife is a fictionalized account about the early life of Mehrunnisa, a Persian refugee who became the most famous Empress of Mughal India, through her marriage to the Emperor Jahangir. Liberties are taken, of course, but Mehrunnisa's life is very well documented and quite dramatic on its own.

https://theliteraryomnivore.wordpress.com/2009/06/26/review-the-twentieth-wife/

https://www.indusundaresan.com/the-twentieth-wife/

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 12/22/2022 at 12:54 AM, Marbles said:

the light-skinned Muslims who had roots in Afghanistan, Persia and Turkey looked down upon the local Indian Muslims because of the colour of their skin as well as their facial features (which they believed were less attractive than people from the Eastern Muslim heartlands). 

some examples of light-skinned native shia muslims which nobody from Persia has not lloked down upon them .

Khoja Shia Ithna Asheri

Quote

Khoja Shia Ithna-Asheri Muslims are a united Shia minority with a population of about 125 thousand people who have a remarkable order among themselves. They are originally from Kutch district in Gujarat state, India. They converted from Hinduism to Isma'ili Shia and in the early 1870s, they converted to Twelver Shia (Ithna-'Ashari). Khoja Shia Ithna-Asheri live in the five continents of the world and have independent communities in every country.

 

Dignitaries

Muhammad Ali Jinnah (1876 – 1948) known as the Qayid-i-Azam (Great Leader) was the leader of independence movement and founder of Pakistan. Some Shia authors have considered him among political figures of Khoja Ithna-Asheri Shia.

Mulla Asgarali Jaffer (1936 – 2000) known as Mulla Asghar was the head of the World Federation of Khoja Shia Ithna-Asheri Muslims Communities and a member of the supreme council of the Ahl al-Bayt (a) World Assembly. He was among Khoja Ithna-Asheri Shia dignitaries who was an agent of some religious authorities such as Sayyid Muhsin Hakim, Sayyid Abu al-Qasim Khu'i and Sayyid Ali Sistani. He had some works including the English translation of questions and answers from Ayatullah Sistani in Islamic rulings.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Khoja_Shia_Ithna_Asheri

Quote

Mullah Asghar (1936-2000), the head of the World Federation of Shia Congregations, Khoja Ithna Asheri.[48] He became a member of the Supreme Council of the World Ahl al-Bayt Assembly in 1370 solar (1991) by Ayatollah Khamenei.[49]

https://fa.wikishia.net/view/خوجه‌های_اثناعشری

[Marbles]

6 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam this is totall nosense because based on historiacall fact so called "light-skinned rulers " have had Mughal origin which they have stablished greatest muslim empire of India

The light-skinned rulers came long before the Mughals. The colourism also predates the Mughals. I identified the Sultanate Period from which we've ample evidence of discrimination based on origin and/or colour of skin.

For the rest I don't understand what you're trying to say. Sorry.

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 12/24/2022 at 8:38 AM, Marbles said:

The light-skinned rulers came long before the Mughals. The colourism also predates the Mughals. I identified the Sultanate Period from which we've ample evidence of discrimination based on origin and/or colour of skin.

For the rest I don't understand what you're trying to say. Sorry.

Majority of Aryan oreintion people in India   have been descendants of Iranians (Parsi peopel) who have been Zoroastrians who have migrated to India during invasion of Arabs to Iran anyway you have a biased mindset against Iranians for any reason so therefore you have denied any fact about presence of Iranians in India which has resulted to founding of lighter skin community in India which before Islam it leads to creation of caste sysytem in India but on the other hand  during Mughal ruling with help of Iranian muslim advisors over India there has few reports about dscrimination about skin color which after fall of mughals British colonizers have used it according their famous doctrine of "Divid & Conquer" by turning light skin & dark skin & in similar fashion muslim against Hindu & one tribe against aother tribe with flavor of anti Iran rhetoric for totally seperating India from it's glory during mughal empires wich Farsi language & Iranian advisors have great rule inn it.

Did colourism always exist in the Indian subcontinent?

There are recorded instances of the lighter skinned Aryan population fighting against their darker skinned subcontinental counterparts, which some historians have dictated to be events of prejudice based on colour. However, in reality, it was a fight to control territory, harness wealth, cultivate crops and graze cattle—basic cases of a population wanting to survive not a fight based on race or colour.

Things were good in the case of colourism back then but soon enter the long reign of Muslim invaders, predominantly the Mughals, the Portuguese and of course, the British. The Muslim rule of India consisted of several Muslim dynasties ruling over the Delhi Sultanate and later by the stronghold of the Mughal empire. During Mughal rule, Emperor Akbar was the first to make a thoughtful effort to unite the subcontinent. During the years of Muslim rule, there are no accounted instances of ruling based on the preconception of skin tone. However, the subcontinent did then come under the rule of Mughals, people of Persian and Arabic heritage having a fairer skin tone than the average person of the subcontinent. The system got formed of fairer skin people to rule over the subcontinent, but it was not institutionalised or politicised.

 

Public ridicule of darker skinned individuals and the institutionalisation of the idea that the lighter the skin more superior brought into the socio-cultural environment of the subcontinent, the basis of colourism. Hundreds of years of being ruled by lighter skinned individuals with the Muslim rule of India, other Europeans like the Portuguese and finally the British (with them institutionalising the idea), unknowingly or unwillingly, people began the association of fairer skin tone with greater social superiority. Even years after independence from the British, partition of India and independence of Bangladesh from Pakistan, the idea of colourism still remains deeply rooted systematically in our cultures throughout the subcontinent.

https://www.thedailystar.net/opinion/perspective/news/did-colourism-always-exist-the-indian-subcontinent-1683064

[Ashvazdanghe]

During the British Empire, skin tone prejudice became formally engrained; the colonizers kept light skinned Indians as allies, giving them extra advantages over the rest of the “blacks.” The British East India Company even named their settlement at Fort St. George “White Town” and their Indian settlement “Black Town.”

Quote

India’s colorist attitudes have not gone anywhere. Politicians continue to make color-based prejudices based on geography and caste. Gendered colorism, in which dark-skinned women face particular discrimination, directs job and marriage prospects. And Indians continue to lighten their skin, using a variety of creams, bleaches, and homemade products. Is there any way to remedy India’s obsession with skin color?

 

Quote

Color discrimination has also played a huge role in the world’s most prodigious film industry. Bollywood films often feature songs that glorify fair skin and deride darker skin shades. For instance, in the 1990s film “Suhaag,” the male protagonist lusts after women with fair skin and dark sunglasses. A more recent song talks about how the two lead actors’ hearts start beating fast upon seeing “white white faces.”

 

Quote

“Dark skin has been a source of stigma for Indian women long before the arrival of globalization,” say Radhika Parameswaran and Kavitha Cardoza, authors of a paper about India’s obsession with light skin. “However, the intensified promotion of light-skinned beauty in advertising since the onset of economic liberalization points to the role that market forces can play in exacerbating divisions of gender, caste, region, and class.”

 

Quote

Recent Fair & Lovely ads do not contain this blatant misogyny, but instead drip with corporate-led feminism; they suggest fair skin as a tool for female success. You can become a pilot, a district collector, or a rich athlete by using their product. And in a bid to increase profits, they offer products to lighten other parts of Indian women. The company now sells armpit lightening cream — and even vagina lightening cream.

An estimated 60 percent of Indian women — and 10 percent of men — say they use fairness products. Alarmed by the health dangers of fairness products, the World Health Organization began to study and promote the strict regulation of these creams. It noted that mercury, a common ingredient found in skin lightening soaps and creams, can cause rashes, kidney damage, and even cancer.

 

Quote

Some skin lightening procedures in India include chemical peeling, laser treatment, bleaching, and fairness injections. In 2016, Shalini Verma took a three-month course to lighten her skin just before her wedding. Her picture that had been sent along with the marriage proposal was lightened by several shades through Photoshop, as is common practice. She would not meet her groom until their wedding day, and Shalini says that she didn’t want to disappoint him. “He was taking me to USA, my dream country,” she says. “Taking a few injections on my face, if it pleases him, is no big deal.”

 

https://brightthemag.com/fair-but-not-so-lovely-indias-obsession-with-skin-whitening-beauty-body-image-bleaching-4d6ba9c9743d

[Eddie Mecca]

Discriminatory hierarchical systems based on colorism and complexion is deeply-rooted in Latin America, Asia and Africa...the attitudes are a combination of European colonialism mixed with deeply ingrained anti-black sentiments that are indigenous and go back millennia...from the overreaction among Egyptians over assigning a biracial actress (Adele James) the role of 'Queen Cleopatra' in Netflix's four-part documentary series...to colorism, casteism and gentrification politics among Bollywood elites...(23 minutes)…Beyond Documentary

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CY6fkfrp5A

[Eddie Mecca]

"They Are Stealing My Culture!" Bassem Youssef On Netflix's 'Cleopatra' Casting...Bassem making some good points...(9 min)...Piers Morgan Uncensored

 

[Eddie Mecca]

On 12/22/2022 at 5:08 AM, Ashvazdanghe said:

respectfully I disagree about your statement about Persia

Salaam, just come out for once and admit you believe all Persians are ma'sūmīn...it's okay...we'll understand

On 12/21/2022 at 4:24 PM, Marbles said:

"Don't play in the sun too much or you'll become dark/black." Every South Asian mother has at one time or another said those words to their kids.

So people have to become Vitamin D-deprived/deficient because of a moronic, anti-Islamic belief system

Edited June 26, 2024 by Eddie Mecca
correction

[Ashvazdanghe]

19 minutes ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Salaam, just come out for once and admit you believe all Persians are ma'sūmīn...it's okay...we'll understand

Salam , I never have claimed Persians as ma'sūmīn...which I have just responded to accusations of @Marbles against Persians which in opposition to your claim many times I have mentioned shortcomings of Persians in similar fashion of other normal people although nobody can deny great rule of Persians in Islamic history specially great affection of Persian on Shia history & preserving legacy of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام).

[Eddie Mecca]

This girl is hilarious...Dark and Ugly? (The Desi Obsession with Fair Skin)...Tazzy Phe...16 minutes 35 seconds

 

[Eddie Mecca]

Blackface: The ugliness of racism in Arab media | The Listening Post (Feature) | Al Jazeera English | 10 minutes 17 seconds

 

[Eddie Mecca]

A piece from our very own Ustadh Bilal Muhammad circa 2020:

Due to colonialism, there is a serious inferiority complex that our people have toward whites, or even people with lighter skin than us. 

Hence, our clothing is Anglo-Franco, our music is Anglo-Franco, we aspire for Anglo-Franco passports, our men want Anglo-Franco women, our women want Anglo-Franco men. The Gulf is getting fat on Anglo food. Names are anglicized ("Mo"). 

Our relationship with whites is complex - it ranges from admiration, to lust, to hatred, to kowtowing / bending over backwards. Our relationship with other predominantly non-Muslim races, like the Chinese for example, is a lot less complicated. 

All races are equal, but as a culture, the Germanic peoples (Anglo-Saxons, Scandinavians, Germans) and the French have rejected a religious worldview. They've separated Church and State, they destroy Christian values in pop culture, they removed Latin and Greek from schools, they are destroying the family unit, they are turning to nationalism, their gender norms are dissolving, their cities are designed purely for utility, their economic system is based on exploitation, and their hatred for Muslims is irrational (both on the right and the left). They are returning to their barbarian roots.

Despite 100 years of da'wa aimed primarily at whites, there has yet to be any substantial conversion among them. So I personally believe what Malcolm believed in: a divorce between us and the Germanic and Franco peoples, just as Moses divorced the Bani Isra'il from Egypt. Of course some will be guided inshallah, and they are welcome on our ship, but this mental slavery and admiration needs to end and we must chart our own course.

The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: “You will most certainly follow the ways of those who came before you, arm’s length by arm’s length, forearm’s length by forearm’s length, hand span by hand span, until even if they entered a hole of a mastigure (lizard) you will enter it too.” They said: “O Messenger of Allah, (do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?” He said: “Who else?”

[Eddie Mecca]

As long as we keep worshipping whites as gods beside God do not expect our condition to improve... "Allah does not change the condition of a people unless they first change their own inner state (i.e. their intentions, their hearts, their minds, their attitudes, their actions, their perspectives etc.)." Ar-Rad 13:11. The ayah emphasizes individual and collective responsibility and ethical agency in helping to shape destiny. Once in a blue moon, I'll bump into an occasional white conservative who's concerned about a Muslim takeover of North America... or a creeping Islamic law being forcefully and stealthily implemented in Europe... I provide them reassurance and inform them that the ME and Muslim peoples will most likely be subjugated by Westerners for the next ten thousand years... I help put their minds at ease when I inform them that the resilience of the Arabs is almost nonexistent... The brain rot coupled with an internalized racism... The Semitic and Islamic self-hatred actualized in the form of preference for Western languages, behaviors, tastes and civilizational norms over indigenous ones (e.g. promotion of certain forms of Phoenicianism in Lebanon used to promote non-Arab, anti-Arab, anti-Islamic, anti-Oriental and pro-Western ways of thinking and identities among specific subgroups.)... Then I usually quote the "scum of the ocean" hadith (i.e. Muslim nations during the End Times would be numerous as the stars but would be weak and easily overcome like "foam and scum carried by a torrent in the sea or ocean"... He (peace be upon him) explained that this condition arises from wahn - a deep love for the worldly life and a fear of death leading to a loss of fear in enemies or potential enemies)... I usually end off by saying something like, "when you see the Sunni speaking on behalf of the Shi'i... and the Shi'i freely speaking on behalf of the Sunni... when you see Muslims acting as the custodians of the natural world and the defenders of animal kingdom... the day you see the Arab, the Turk, the Persian, the Kurd, the Indian, the Afghani cast aside their differences and shun the European... and sincerely and empathetically extend their hand of assistance and brotherhood to the thick-lipped, broad-nosed, black-skinned, sub-Saharan African... then be afraid... be very, very, very afraid." 

Edited March 15 by Eddie Mecca
Adding