Advanced Member Zaydism Posted November 10, 2022 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted November 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Cool said: Brother, if you are really unable to cite what the matn says, then allow me to show you what it says. At first the text says: واعلم ان الله عزوجل جعل خلف النبوة من ابناء نبيه في اثنى عشر سبطاً So Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) made the successor of the Prophethood among the sons of His Prophet, and you have excluded al-Hassan & al-Hussain عليهم السلام from the list of 12. What a joke!! What else, the matn also mentions the 12 Imams as: 8 hours ago, Zaidism said: وهم بمنزلة اسباط بني اسرائيل حجة الله على خلقه وأمان أهل الأرض من استيصال عذابه Note the terms "hujjat Allahe ala khalqeg", "amaana ahl al-ard". This essentially pointing towards the "ismah" of each & every Imam in the list of 12. This unfortunately, is not in line with the belief of your creed. Then we further see Zaidiyyah exclude from that list Imam al-Sajjad & Imam al-Baqir عليهم السلام. You see how our Zaydi Imam Ali b. Musa al-Rida mentions them collectively? Yes, they are collective proof over us. This is what we mean by the consensus of the Ahl al-Bayt, when these honorable men from the sons of al-Hasan, and al-Husayn reach a consensus it is a binding proof over the creation. Thank you for demonstrating once again the consistency of the Zaydi, and for avoiding to touch on my arguments against the occultation. \ 2 hours ago, Cool said: The alleged "profound statement" saying "We do not have an imam who is supposed to be obeyed after Hussain (عليه السلام)". So there were no amaan ahl al-ard & hujjatullahe ala khalqeh after Hussain (عليه السلام)? There were no "Ulil Amr" and the "amr of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) cease to descend during that period (na'udobillah). After Imam Husayn there is no particular fatimid that has a binding authority exclusively, what is binding afterwards is the consensus. In terms of your appeal to ''amaan ahl al-ard & hujjatullahe ala khalqeh,'' etc. They are just words, you have no guidance, and you have no agreement whatsoever. You guys can't agree on whether the Quran is corrupted or not, you can't agree on Usul, you can't agree on governance, in the words of al-Tusi you don't have a Sahih hadith unless it is contradicted by another Sahih hadith. This is your attempt at damage control, yet anything you throw at me will come back to you tenfold, and we will also have a clear, consistent, and pragmatic answer to your misconceptions regarding the honorable Zaydi Madhab which is the tradition of the greats from among the sons of al-Hasan, and al-Husayn. This is what the school of the Ahl al-Bayt is about, it is fortified by its very core, decisive in its message, appealing to the heart, consistent with history, and the Quran. 2 hours ago, Cool said: What else? during that period, all the believers who died, died the death of ignorance as per hadith: من مات و لم يعرف الامام مات ميتة جاهلية This hadith I remember is also present in masnad Zayd al-Shaheed You know when the Prophet speaks, his words are actually meaningful. So, when he says you will die a death of ignorance, it is because something is missing. What did the people of ignorance lack? They lacked scripture. The Imam is scripture, it is the Quran. Hence, the people will be called by their Imam, they will be raised by their scripture. Muslim2010 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.