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In the Name of God بسم الله

What shia take on the 72 hoors concept

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Guest ShiaEAli

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On 9/24/2022 at 8:11 PM, Guest ShiaEAli said:

Asalam o Alaikum brothers and sisters

I have a stupid little Question

I have seen irreligious people taunting Islam saying you'll be having intimacy with 72 hoors in Paradise i am sorry for my words 

And most of our Sunni fellow's seem to defend this ideology

And Quran also talks about maidens

Is Shia POV the same? If it is then why do we believe that there will be no Desires and no Lust in jannah

And what about women i am not a feminist but it could've been just spouse in paradise right?

72 virgin women seems illogical doesn't it? That too for sinners like us?

JazakAllah khair 

I have not read any hadith mentioning number of houris but there are going to be mates in heavens that is what mentioned in Quran. 

Any woman who would be most pious, will have the opportunity to choose her husband and she will be Queen of houris. 

Apart from whether there are going to be 72 houris or not, I have question that why not people criticize those women who are fan of a male celebrity? No one says anything to them, so I wonder why the anti-Islamists protests against 72 Houris? That seems illogical.

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9 hours ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

There is going to be mates in heaven that is written in Quran and there are going to be physical needs such as desire to eat something and thrones upon which Momineen will rest. The only things which won't be there is evil.

Need and desire (want) are not the same thing.  

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21 hours ago, Ibn Tayyar said:

Some, however, are of the opinion that they are exclusively made for Jannah to serve the believers.

I think I would like to hold this opinion instead of the earlier one you mentioned:

21 hours ago, Ibn Tayyar said:

Some hadiths seem to indicate that these "wildaan" or "ghilmaan" in Jannah are the children who died before buloogh, and therefore became servants in Jannah.

The verses quoted earlier by me mentioning believers going to Jannah with their spouses & offspring. So I think anyone's death before buloogh cannot be the criteria for becoming servants in Jannah. The traits of wildaan & ghilmaan mentioned in Quran shows that they are specifically created for Jannah just like the Hoor.

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5 hours ago, Cool said:

I think I would like to hold this opinion instead of the earlier one you mentioned:

The verses quoted earlier by me mentioning believers going to Jannah with their spouses & offspring. So I think anyone's death before buloogh cannot be the criteria for becoming servants in Jannah. The traits of wildaan & ghilmaan mentioned in Quran shows that they are specifically created for Jannah just like the Hoor.

It may be specific to the children of the non-believers, as one hadith mentions. 

I don't think any of the opinions necessarily contradict the Verses. 

Edited by Ibn Tayyar
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16 hours ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Well, If you put it that way even then one cannot rule out there is going to be both needs and desires that is what makes us a creation.

We're going to disagree and that's ok.  

It seems to me that if there are needs,  it is not perfection,  and paradise isn't supposed to be really nice,  it's supposed to be perfect..

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7 hours ago, notme said:

We're going to disagree and that's ok.  

It seems to me that if there are needs,  it is not perfection,  and paradise isn't supposed to be really nice,  it's supposed to be perfect..

One of our Holy Imams said regarding souls: "If only souls were allowed to roam this world, they would have claimed to be God because they could live without eating. Thus, Allah (عزّ وجلّ) made bodies which have needs and from their dependency on food, they know they are dependent". 

Our needs actually serve a divine objective that is that we always will depend upon Allah (عزّ وجلّ). The heaven will be perfect yes and it will always have everything we need and our desires will be fulfilled there but some of our natural habits will still exist in heaven such as those living in lower levels of heaven will praise and long for high levels of heaven. The only things that will be eradicated from human nature would be evil things and sorrows. 

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7 hours ago, notme said:

We're going to disagree and that's ok.  

It seems to me that if there are needs,  it is not perfection,  and paradise isn't supposed to be really nice,  it's supposed to be perfect..

Salam these things in Paradise are just for joy of believers not their needs which our needs in this world are mixed blessing with side effects which in this world at first we enjoy from pros of  satisfying our needs likewise eating & drinking  but at the end of day we also face cons of side effects of consuming &7 drinking  anything which for example reason for forbidding wine is having more cons  than pros  in this world  but on the other hand we won't suffer from cons of wine in pardise  so therefore it will be reward of believers in Pardise with just it's pros without any cons of it so threfore having any reward in Paradise is due perfection of anything & anyone .

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10 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

but on the other hand we won't suffer from cons of wine in pardise 

Brother, scholars say that by "Sharab tahoora" is meant "pure drinks" not wine. Sharab actually means drink in Arabic. I don't think, we will be given wine in heaven as scholars disagree about it.

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On 10/1/2022 at 1:20 AM, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Brother, scholars say that by "Sharab tahoora" is meant "pure drinks" not wine. Sharab actually means drink in Arabic. I don't think, we will be given wine in heaven as scholars disagree about it.

Salam "Sharab" is general word for any drink whether pure or impure which pure drinks in heaven are 8 categories which one o these "pure drinks" is  Harmless wine

Quote

 Upon them will be cloaks of green silk and brocade and they will be adorned with bracelets of silver. Their Lord will give them to drink a pure drink. (21) 

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/76:21

6 - Pure drink


The meaning of (pure wine) that is drunken in heaven«و سقیهم ربهم شرابا طهورا», - their God gave them a wine that was pure, that is, it was extremely pure, it was a wine that did not leave any filth or excess.

https://fa.wikifeqh.ir/آشامیدنی‌های_بهشت_(قرآن)

8.2.4 - Harmless wine

Heaven, with wine without the complications of corruption and dementia:

https://fa.wikifeqh.ir/آشامیدنی‌های_بهشت_(قرآن)

Quote

question :
What is the difference between "heavenly wine" and worldly wines?
Short answer:
The wines of the world are smelly, tasteless, troublesome, intoxicating, cause mental weakness, and cause all kinds of physical and mental diseases, and sometimes nausea and heartache come after it. On the other hand, the wines of the hereafter are pleasurable, creator of intellect, invigorating, nourishing for the body and soul, causing attention to Allah,  and spiritual intoxication. The wines of the world corrupt the mind and weaken the bodies when drunk; But the pure wines of heaven make the flames of reason and intelligence more burning, the passions of love more intense, and the body and soul more aware and ready to enjoy spiritual and material pleasure.

 

Quote

 served around with a cup, from a clear fountain, (45) snow-white, delicious to the drinkers, (46) wherein there will be neither headache nor will it cause them stupefaction, (47) and with them will be maidens, of restrained glances with big [beautiful] eyes, (48) 

عَلَىٰ سُرُرٍ مُّتَقَابِلِينَ ‎﴿٤٤﴾‏ يُطَافُ عَلَيْهِم بِكَأْسٍ مِّن مَّعِينٍ ‎﴿٤٥﴾‏ بَيْضَاءَ لَذَّةٍ لِّلشَّارِبِينَ ‎﴿٤٦﴾‏ لَا فِيهَا غَوْلٌ وَلَا هُمْ عَنْهَا يُنزَفُونَ ‎﴿٤٧﴾‏ وَعِندَهُمْ قَاصِرَاتُ الطَّرْفِ عِينٌ ‎﴿٤٨﴾‏ كَأَنَّهُنَّ بَيْضٌ مَّكْنُونٌ

 

One of the questions related to heavenly wines is their difference from worldly wines. "The Glorious Qur'an" has different expressions to clear any ambiguity regarding the clear difference between the polluted wines of this world and the pure wines of heaven, it says in one place: «بَيْضَاءَ لَذَّةٍ لِلشَّارِبِينَ»  "snow-white, delicious to the drinkers, (46)"

It is a sparkling and white wine that gives pleasure to the drinkers. Not like the blood-colored wines of the world, bitter and unpleasant, which even those who drink it at the beginning, drink it with disgust; Rather, it is a wine that gives pleasure from the very beginning and is followed by indescribable spiritual and spiritual intoxication. 

 

Quote

«لَا فِيهَا غَوْلٌ وَ لَا هُمْ عَنْهَا يُنْزَفُونَ».   "wherein there will be neither headache nor will it cause them stupefaction,"(47)  

The wines of the world corrupt the mind and make the bodies so weak when drunk that they are not able to move and maintain their balance. But the pure wines of heaven("Sharab tahoora" is meant "pure drinks") make the flames of reason and intelligence more burning and the passions of love more intense and make the body and soul more aware and ready to enjoy spiritual and material pleasure.(2)

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/37:47

https://makarem.ir/maaref/fa/article/index/417318/تفاوت-«شراب-بهشتی»-با-شراب-های-دنیوی

And in another place, after referring to some of the heavenly wines, he says: «لَا يُصَدَّعُونَ عَنْهَا وَ لَا يُنْزِفُونَ»  which causes them neither headache nor stupefaction, (19) 

«يُصَدَّعُونَ» از ماده «صُداع» means It means headache, and its main root is "crack" «صَدْع» which means splitting, and because when a person suffers from severe headaches, it is as if he wants to split his head due to the intensity of the pain. This word is used in severe headaches.

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/56:19

https://makarem.ir/maaref/fa/article/index/417318/تفاوت-«شراب-بهشتی»-با-شراب-های-دنیوی

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On 9/26/2022 at 1:32 AM, notme said:

Probably a metaphor.  

All your desires will be fulfilled in paradise. That one specific thing is a desire that seems really strange to me,  a middle aged modern Muslim woman,  but it must have made sense to a lot of people throughout history.  Even this,  if it's what you desire.  

And also you'll have no earthly body,  no physical needs.  

I think it won’t be that strange if you consider hell dwellers will be eating from a tree of Zaqoom and their bellies would be filled from it. And they will be drinking scalding water.

This one is a punishment and that one is a reward.

Whether it arises from a need or a desire is inconsequential, so it seems to me.

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