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In the Name of God بسم الله

What shia take on the 72 hoors concept

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Guest ShiaEAli

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Guest ShiaEAli

Asalam o Alaikum brothers and sisters

I have a stupid little Question

I have seen irreligious people taunting Islam saying you'll be having intimacy with 72 hoors in Paradise i am sorry for my words 

And most of our Sunni fellow's seem to defend this ideology

And Quran also talks about maidens

Is Shia POV the same? If it is then why do we believe that there will be no Desires and no Lust in jannah

And what about women i am not a feminist but it could've been just spouse in paradise right?

72 virgin women seems illogical doesn't it? That too for sinners like us?

JazakAllah khair 

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Probably a metaphor.  

All your desires will be fulfilled in paradise. That one specific thing is a desire that seems really strange to me,  a middle aged modern Muslim woman,  but it must have made sense to a lot of people throughout history.  Even this,  if it's what you desire.  

And also you'll have no earthly body,  no physical needs.  

Edited by notme
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On 9/25/2022 at 12:32 PM, notme said:

Probably a metaphor.  

All your desires will be fulfilled in paradise. That one specific thing is a desire that seems really strange to me,  a middle aged modern Muslim woman,  but it must have made sense to a lot of people throughout history.  Even this,  if it's what you desire.  

And also you'll have no earthly body,  no physical needs.  

I agree with the above except for one part. You do have an earthly body, it is just 'earthly body 2.0' meaning you don't age, don't get sick, don't need to use the bathroom, don't get tired, depressed, stressed out, etc. Also if you have disability or defect in your earthly body that will be removed and you will have that body, but without the defects or disability. Those who wear glasses now won't need glasses to see clearly, those who are hard of hearing will be able to hear crystal clear without a hearing aid, etc. It will be an earthly body though, made out of flesh, bones, blood, hair, teeth, etc. You won't have a non material or 'spiritualized' body. You will have that, but in the barzakh (intermediate world). On the day of Resurrection, your physical body will be 'put back together' atom by atom and molecule by molecule, but in the 2.0 form (if you are bound for paradise).  The authentic hadith are very clear about these points. 

The hadith are also clear about the fact that there will be hour al ain in paradise(and this is in the Quran also, many times) , but are not as clear about the exact details. Those people who say 'You guys believe that you will be able to 'have' 72 virgins all at once, or as my British friends say 'all in one go' are probably not familiar with our hadith. I am not saying that this is not a possibility, but it is not alluded to in that much detail as to be able to know one way or the other. 

What we know is that the mumineen (and also the muminaat) will have many servants or companions that are beautiful, virgins, in the sense that they have been created specifically for the pleasure of this mumin or mumina and they have no exposure to any other human beings. The mumin / a will get intense pleasure from this companionship which will be mutual and they will have more than one of these relationships. That part we know. Now some extrapolate that into 'sexual intercourse with multiple partners' but that is not what the hadiths say exactly. This is their interpretation of the hadith based on their own thinking about what gives them pleasure or 'intense pleasure' here on earth. Paradise is not like earth in many ways, so this intense pleasure may be something else, or it might not be, we don't know, well we know generally, but not the specific details. 

From what I have read, and what I have been told, just looking at one of these hour al ayn from a distance without physically touching them or hearing them will be many orders of magnitude better and more pleasurable than any type of pleasure anyone has experienced on earth. They have been created from out deepest most intimate thoughts, emotions, and desires, and not for anyone else. Basically, there is nothing that any of us have experienced yet in our existence to compare that to. So now imagine more intimate interactions with this being, whether than involves what it involves here on earth or not. It doesn't really matter, we cannot imagine it, given our current knowledge and experience. It's like an ant trying to talk about the height of Mt. Everest when the tallest thing they've ever seen is a tree or a shrub. It is useful to talk about, if it motivates some people to be better muslims and more faithful, but beyond that it's not very productive to talk about, since we have not way to really conceive exactly what it is. 

The other aspect is that all these negative emotions we experience on earth like jealousy, suspicion, fear of abandonment, etc, don't exist in Paradise. All these emotions are 'cleaned' from the soul before one enters Paradise. So even if two people are husband and wife, mumin and muminat, and they see each other in Paradise being served by different individuals, those things that go thru their mind on earth (as a result of their human nature here on earth as well as various negative experiences that happened to them) won't go thru their mind there, after their heart is purified. 

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Thank you all for your replies so after reading all your responses i can conclude that 

The number 72 and intimacy with them was just people and their desires and they came to These conclusions

While these hoor ul ayn will be providing services for example serving food to eat, waters etc not for getting intimate like Sunnis believe

And our worldly spouse will be our spouse in hereafter too

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1 hour ago, Guest ShiaEAli said:

And our worldly spouse will be our spouse in hereafter too

Can someone provide scources about this? I want to know if this is true

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4 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

You do have an earthly body, it is just 'earthly body 2.0' meaning you don't age, don't get sick, don't need to use the bathroom, don't get tired, depressed, stressed out, etc.

It's a physical body,  but I wouldn't call that an earthly body, and I'm pretty sure I've read that we will have no needs, but I might be mistaken on that part.  

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On 9/25/2022 at 1:59 PM, Diaz said:

I’m thinking about how to eat without getting fat in heaven :itsok:

 Salam 

we don't get fat by sweating  :pushup2::pushup: in paradise .

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8 hours ago, notme said:

It's a physical body,  but I wouldn't call that an earthly body, and I'm pretty sure I've read that we will have no needs, but I might be mistaken on that part.  

Salam 

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The types of food and drink in Paradise are detailed in the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah, and so are the huris, the women with large lovely eyes who will be the wives of the lucky ones, yet one is tempted to ask: What will the residents of Paradise enjoy most?

Will it be the drinks, the food, the music played by the branches and leaves of Paradise, or the singing of these huris whose songs, sung individually or in groups, will praise the Almighty and glorify Him? In his Tafsir, al-’Ayyashi, as quoted on p. 139, Vol. 8, of Bihar al-Anwar, quotes Abu Baseer quoting Abu Abdullah Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) saying, "The residents of Paradise will enjoy neither food nor drink more than enjoying sexual intercourse."

 

On 9/24/2022 at 6:41 PM, Guest ShiaEAli said:

Asalam o Alaikum brothers and sisters

I have a stupid little Question

I have seen irreligious people taunting Islam saying you'll be having intimacy with 72 hoors in Paradise i am sorry for my words 

And most of our Sunni fellow's seem to defend this ideology

And Quran also talks about maidens

Is Shia POV the same? If it is then why do we believe that there will be no Desires and no Lust in jannah

And what about women i am not a feminist but it could've been just spouse in paradise right?

72 virgin women seems illogical doesn't it? That too for sinners like us?

JazakAllah khair 

 

11 hours ago, Guest ShiaEAli said:

Thank you all for your replies so after reading all your responses i can conclude that 

The number 72 and intimacy with them was just people and their desires and they came to These conclusions

While these hoor ul ayn will be providing services for example serving food to eat, waters etc not for getting intimate like Sunnis believe

And our worldly spouse will be our spouse in hereafter too

 

9 hours ago, Guest Shianonymous said:

Can someone provide scources about this? I want to know if this is true

 

Quote

At that point, Abu Busayr could not help weeping, yet he asked the Imam (عليه السلام) to tell him more. Imam al-Baqir (عليه السلام) said, "O Abu Muhammad! On the edges of the rivers of Paradise are wives waiting for their husbands like trees standing in a row. The moment he picks one of them, another is created for him in her place." Abu Busayr said, "May my life be sacrificed for you! Please do tell me more!" The Imam (عليه السلام) then said, "A believer is married to eight hundred virgins, four thousand thayyibs9 and two huris." "Eight hundred virgins?!"

Abu Busayr asked the Imam (عليه السلام) in amazement. "Yes. Whenever he cohabits with one of them, he always finds her so." "May my life be sacrificed for your sake," said Abu Busayr, "What are the huris created of?" The Imam (عليه السلام) told the inquirer that they were created of the same heavenly substance of which Paradise is created, then he added, "Her leg can be seen even from behind seventy outfits."

https://www.al-islam.org/fast-month-ramadhan-philosophy-and-ahkam-yasin-t-al-jibouri/glance-paradise-and-hell

The Bliss of Paradise or the tortures of Hell

By: Allamah Sayyid Saeed Akhtar Rizvi

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Mulla Hasan Yazdi has written in 'Anwarul-Hidayah' about some of the bounties of the Paradise. A gist is given here:- “The enjoyments of the Paradise are of various kinds:
1. The greatest bliss will be the 'Pleasure of Allah', as Allah says in the Qur'an, “And the greatest bliss is the pleasure of Allah.” (Qur’an, 9:72)
Sexual pleasure: The believers will get at least seventy thousand houris, apart from their believer wives. Whenever the believer will go to them, he will find them virgins.

 

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Blessings of Paradise
Paradise is the confluence of every imaginable, and even unimagined, Bliss, Content, Happiness and Joy
Shaykh as-Saduq ((رضي الله عنه).) has written: “It is our belief that paradise is the abode of eternity and house of peace; there is neither death there or old age; neither ailment nor disease; neither deterioration nor any handicap; neither sorrow nor worry; neither need nor poverty. And it is the house of plenty and bliss, and place of permanency with honour. The people of paradise will not suffer from any monotony or tiredness therein. They will get there what the souls desire and eyes appreciate, and they will abide there forever.
“And it is the house whose residents will be (like) neighbours to Allah in the company of the friends of Allah and His beloveds - those who are honoured in His presence.
“And the people of paradise will be of various grades……….. some of them will enjoy the numerous foods and drinks and fruits and houris……………….,

https://www.imamreza.net/old/eng/imamreza.php?id=9423

 

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Allah wanted to multiply human beings and as the Qalam had made the sisters unlawful for their brothers Allah on a Thursday after Asr sent a huri, Nazala and ordered Adam to marry [Edited Out]h to her.

Next day another huri, Mauzela was sent and Allah ordered that Yafith be married to her. Adam did as was told. [Edited Out]h got a son and Yafith a daughter. When both attained maturity Allah ordered Adam to marry them and Adam obeyed. Thus, the lineage of Prophets and Messengers of Allah began. Allah forbids! It is not so as people say that human beings have descended through brother and sister.”

According to reliable chain of narrators it is narrated from Imam al-Baqir that Allah sent a huri from heaven and Adam married her to one of his sons. He also married a female jinni to another of his son. Therefore beauty in creation due to the huri and ugliness due the Jinn. Imam has emphatically denied that Adam married sons to daughters.

https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-qulub-vol-1-allamah-muhammad-baqir-al-majlisi/merits-adam-and-hawwa-eve-reasons-behind

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Is it true that all men in paradise will get the company of houris? Or are there only some special men who will get them?
Sayyed Mohammad Al-Musawi, Sayyed Mohammad al-Musawi is originally from Iraq and heads up the World Ahlul Bayt Islamic League in London. Other than being involved in various humanitarian projects, he frequently responds to...
Answered 3 years ago
Pious men will be getting their pious wives with them in Paradise but in a completely different shape. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will make their wives in the best shape that they can not even imagine in this life. The pious wife will be more pretty than any Houri.

Pious women who did not have pious husbands in this life will be granted pious husbands in the Paradise.

Wassalam

https://www.al-islam.org/ask/is-it-true-that-all-men-in-paradise-will-get-the-company-of-houris-or-are-there-only-some-special-men-who-will-get-them/sayyed-mohammad-al-musawi

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12-amina_inloes-330.jpg?itok=ZjwlpI6E
Amina Inloes, Amina Inloes is originally from the US and has a PhD in Islamic Studies from the University of Exeter on Shi'a hadith. She is the program leader for the MA Islamic Studies program at the...Answered 2 years ago

People in Paradise may have whatever they like.

"They may have whatever they wish there [in Paradise], and with Us is more" (Qur'an 50:35).

My understanding of this (from theory, obviously not from experience!) is that life there is similar to life in our dreams, in that, sometimes, when you are dreaming, if you imagine something strongly, you can make it appear. Similarly, I am given to understand that, in Paradise, the human being will be able to "wish" into existence whatever they want. 

https://www.al-islam.org/ask/will-the-believing-woman-have-access-to-a-male-houri-in-the-next-life/amina-inloes

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Chapter 16: Az-Zahra

As it was reported in v. 10 of Bihar al-Anwar, Ibn Abbas narrated that Allah's Messenger said:

"Surely my daughter Fatima is: The Mistress of all women from the beginning to the end. She is part of me, and the light of my eyes, She is the f lower of my heart, and is my soul, (Fatima) is a human huri, who whenever she stands in prayers in the presence of Her Lord (Exalted is His Name), her light illuminates the skies for the angels, like stars shine to people on Earth."

This narration clarifies the reason for which Fatima az-Zahra (sa) was given the name Zahra. There are other narrations, which mention that she had a bright and splendid face.

Lady Fatima az-Zahra (sa) had other titles, and each one of them reflected a virtue of noble trait which she enjoyed. Among those titles were: Al-Batoul, Al-Adhra (The Virgin), and

Al-Hania (The Affectionate one to her children).

Fatima’s (sa) favorite title was "Umm Abiha" meaning her father's mother.

https://www.al-islam.org/fatima-gracious-abu-muhammad-ordoni/chapter-16-az-zahra

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Many traditions have already been mentioned, which attest the fact that she was conceived of heavenly food, and that Fatima was a human “huri” (female of paradise). There is not exaggeration in this expression, rather, stating that Fatima was always virgin, is nothing but the absolute truth. Besides the narrations that verify this fact, the Holy Qur’an states:

"We have created (the huri) of special creation; and made them virgin pure (and undefiled)." (56: 35-36)

This clarifies that “huri”(s) are always virgins. Majma al-Bayan explains this verse as follows: "[What is meant by virgin pure is] that whenever their husbands come near them [have sexual intercourse with them], they find them virgins."

Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) was asked: "How can a ‘huri’ always be a virgin (no matter how many times her husband comes near her?"

The Imam (عليه السلام) answered: "Because ‘huri’(s) is created from pure goodness where no blight can alter them, nor, does decrepitude inflict them... menstruation does not pollute them..."

https://www.al-islam.org/fatima-gracious-abu-muhammad-ordoni/chapter-18-al-adhra

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Fatima was the daughter of Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).W), the wife of Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)), the mother of the only two Masters of the Youth of Paradise- Imam Hasan and Imam Husain- and the mother of the 11 infallible Imams (peace be upon them all). She is the elite of the elite women of the past, present and future. She was an infallible martyr and a human huri. She was the crystallization of piety, chastity and real devotee of the Almighty Allah. Her virtues are so numerous that the Messenger of Allah said about her: “If beauty were a person it would be Fatima, Nay! She is greater. Indeed, Fatima is my daughter and the best of the people of the earth in her origin, dignity and honour.” [Fara`edoh-Samtayn vol.2 p.68]

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/fatima-mother-her-father-mansour-leghaei

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On 9/24/2022 at 6:41 PM, Guest ShiaEAli said:

Is Shia POV the same?

Quote
 
Sayyed Mohammad Al-Musawi, Sayyed Mohammad al-Musawi is originally from Iraq and heads up the World Ahlul Bayt Islamic League in London. Other than being involved in various humanitarian projects, he frequently responds to...Answered 7 months ago

These narrations are in Sunni books.

I did not find them in our authentic Shia books of Hadeeth. We have narrations that the believer will get in the Paradise his believing wife as the most beautiful woman along with the Hoor.

Wassalam.

12-sayyed_mohammad_al-musawi-631.png?itok=IsUiHj7Y

https://www.al-islam.org/ask/do-martyrs-really-get-72-virgins-what-is-the-shia-view-on-this-concept

72 in Shia Islam mostly reffers to martyrs of Karbala which it seems 72 Huris in Sunni sources have been forged for insulting to martyrs of Karbala which also it's possible that it has been inspired from Isra'iliyat in Sunni sources for humilation of martyrs of Karbala because their sacrifice & martyrdom of Imam Husain (عليه السلام) on the banks of the River Euphrates has been predicted in previous divine scriptures likewise Torah & Bible as greates sacrifice from descendants of prophet Ishmael (عليه السلام)  which leads to coming of Messiah/ Meshiah which due to denial of Kabbalists and their belief about that great sacrifice will be from descendants of prophet Isaac (عليه السلام) so therefore they have fabricated these type of narrations for denying fullfilling prophecy by martyrdom of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) & his 72 or more companions & humilting muslims .

Lecture 11: Husayn (عليه السلام) and Psalm 74

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There are other texts, less often noted by non-Muslims, that by their content lend themselves to application to the Imam (عليه السلام). Among the best-known of these is Jeremiah 46:6,10. “Let not the swift flee away, nor the mighty man escape; they shall stumble, and fall toward the north by the river Euphrates….

http://www.sefaria.org/api/img-gen/Jeremiah.46?lang=&platform=twitter&ven=&vhe=

 

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We shall focus specifically on Psalm 74, which is, within this schema, prophetic of the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (عليه السلام). It is the third of the Psalms of Asaph.

1 ¶ > O God, why hast thou cast us off for ever? why doth thine anger smoke against the sheep of thy pasture?

 

 

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Lecture 11: Husayn (عليه السلام) and Psalm 74

The word Hoosen is found in Exodus 25:728:4,15,22,23,24,26,28,29,30; 29:535:9,27; 39:8,9,15,16,17,19,21; and Leviticus 8:8. In every case it refers to the article of clothing worn by the ministering high priest on his chest, and containing twelve stones engraved with the names of the twelve tribes and the Urim and Thummim, oracular stones used to ascertain the divine will. No other word is used in the Hebrew Scriptures from the same root at all.

 

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One must admit the total lack of linguistic evidence for the names Hasan and Husayn (both of the same root) in the Hebrew Scriptures. Furthermore, the many references that speak to the Muslim mind about Husayn (عليه السلام) are already co-opted by Christians in reference to Jesus (عليه السلام), or by Jews in reference to the awaited Messiah (عليه السلام). Among these are the famous Isaiah 53 so often used by Christians as a prophecy of the crucifixion, but which seems so clearly to parallel the experiences of the martyred Husayn (عليه السلام).

 

 

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Shem HaM'phorash (Hebrew: שם המפורש, also Shem ha-Mephorash), meaning "the explicit name," is originally a Tannaitic term describing the Tetragrammaton.[1] In Kabbalah, it may refer to a name of God composed of either 4, 12, 22, 42, or 72 letters (or triads of letters), the latter version being the most common.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shem_HaMephorash

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https://en.wikishia.net/view/Martyrs_of_Karbala

https://www.al-islam.org/sorrow-and-sufferings-noorali-s-merchant/names-martyrs-who-sacrificed-their-lives-karbala-sake-lofty

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15 hours ago, notme said:

Probably a metaphor.  

All your desires will be fulfilled in paradise. That one specific thing is a desire that seems really strange to me,  a middle aged modern Muslim woman,  but it must have made sense to a lot of people throughout history.  Even this,  if it's what you desire.  

And also you'll have no earthly body,  no physical needs.  

That is not true, it seems to be more of a Christian belief than a traditionalist Muslim belief.

Based on the Verses and hadiths, will eat in Heaven, drink in Heaven, and yes, men will spend time with the Hoor (a beautiful female creation) in Heaven, and we will have our physical bodies.

This is what Shaykh Al-Mufid (rah) says:

Paradise is the abode of grace where weariness shall not touch its inmates, nor fatigue distress them; Allah, the Exalted, set it up for those who knew and worshipped Him. Its grace is perpetual and shall never cease. The dwellers therein are of different ranks.

Those who were perfectly devoted to Allah, the Almighty, they will enter immune from the punishment of Allah. And those who mingled good actions with base ones, and put off repentance continually, death shall cut them off before they achieve it, and then certain punishment will overtake them in their lifetime or after, or in this life alone; then they will dwell in Paradise after being forgiven by Allah or punished.

And among them there would be those who will receive the grace of Allah by no previous action of their own in [this] world, these are the immortal youths (al-wildanu 'l- mukhalladun) whom Allah, the Sublime, appointed for the service of the dwellers in Paradise to requite them for their good actions. They suffer neither hardship nor trouble in their service, since they are designed by nature to perform the demands of the believers.

The reward of the dwellers in Paradise is to enjoy the delights of eating, drinking, pleasant scenes and marriage, and every pleasure of the senses to which their natural inclination leads them with which they will achieve their desires. Hence, in Paradise there is no human being who enjoys pleasure without eating, drinking, or gratification of the senses. The claim of him who alleges that in Paradise there are some who find pleasure in exalting and glorifying Allah without enjoying food or drink is, in fact, foreign to the religion of Islam.

It is an imitation of the Christians who allege that those who obey God in their lifetime will be transformed into angels who neither drink, nor eat, nor are married. Allah, the Exalted, declares this assertion a lie in His Book, when He promises to those who do good eating, drinking, and marriage, and the Almighty says:

Its produce is eternal, and its shade. That is, the requital of the godfearing [13:35].

And He, the Almighty, says:

Therein are rivers of sweet water [47:15].

And He, the Exalted, says:

Houris, cloistered in pavilions [55:72].

And He, the Sublime, says:

And wide-eyed houris [56:22].

And He, the Exalted, says:

And We shall espouse them to wide-eyed houris [44:54].

And He, the Almighty, says:

And with the maidens of equal age restraining their glances [38:52].

And He, the Sublime, says:

Verily, the inmates of Paradise shall on that day be busy rejoicing, they and their spouses [36:55-56].

And He, the Exalted says: . . .

that they shall be given in perfect semblance; and there for them shall be spouses purified; therein they shall dwell forever [2:25]. 

How, then, do some hold it permissible to maintain that in Paradise there is a group of human beings who do not eat or drink, and that they take delight in what is an affliction to (the rest of) humanity, whereas the Book of Allah disclaims this; and the consensus of opinion is against it, whether it is in imitation of some whom it is relying on spurious traditions not permissible to imitate, or as for Hell, it is the abode of those who have not known Allah, the Exalted.

https://www.al-islam.org/emendation-shiite-creed-shaykh-al-mufid/28-concerning-paradise-and-hell-al-jannah-wa-n-nar

So to answer the question of the original poster, while I don't believe we have a reliable narration that mentions the number "72" as the amount of Hooris for the martyrs in Paradise, the answer is that male believers will be rewarded with Hooris, similar to how they will be rewarded with other things such as beautiful food and drinks and the rest. This belief is quite obvious based on the Verses and the reliable hadiths.

It is an unorthodox claim to say that we don't, and perhaps the ones who will claim such things are from gnostic circles. 

Edited by Ibn Tayyar
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14 hours ago, Diaz said:

Many are thinking about 72 hoors while I’m thinking about how to eat without getting fat in heaven :itsok:

 

Imam Kazem ((عليه السلام).) said in this relation: "In the same way, a child is fed in the mother's womb, but does not urinate or defecate, the heavenly beings also eat food, but do not urinate or defecate".[2] However, there is a tradition that states that the food that the heavenly beings eat is expelled from their bodies in the form of a fragrant aroma:

[2]'Ali b. Shahrashub  ,  Manaqib Al Abi Talib [book]  v4 ,p 311
A man asked the Prophet of Allah ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)), do the people of Paradise eat and drink? He said: "Yes, by Allah, in whose hand my life is, each one of them will be able to eat and drink as much as a hundred people. He said: Does the person who eats something need to dispose of it? If heaven is pure and there is no pollution there. The Prophet said: "It flows from the body of the people of Paradise in the form of drops of sweat, which is like fragrant musk, and as a result, their stomachs sink".[3]

[3] Warram b. Abi Firas al-Hilli v1 , p67

ورام بن أبی فراس، مسعود بن عیسی، تنبیه الخواطر و نزهة النواظر المعروف بمجموعة ورام، ج 1، ص 67، قم، مکتبة الفقیه، چاپ اول، 1410ق.، ج‏1، ص: 67؛ ابن کثیر دمشقی، اسماعیل بن عمرو،[3] تفسیر القرآن العظیم، تحقیق، شمس الدین، محمد حسین، ج 4، ص 400، بیروت، دار الکتب العلمیة، منشورات محمدعلی بیضون، چاپ اول، 1419ق.

https://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/fa91028

https://hawzah.net/fa/Note/View/72618/تجدید-نسل-و-زاد-و-ولد-دربهشت

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Manaqib_Al_Abi_Talib_(book)

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Warram_b._Abi_Firas_al-Hilli

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In another narration, a Christian asked Imam Baqir ((عليه السلام).): How is it that the people of Paradise eat food, fruit, and drink, but do not defecate and do not go to the bathroom? Give me an example in the world.

? Hazrat replied:
A fetus in its mother's stomach eats what its mother eats, but at the same time it does not defecate and does not has a toilet.

Bihar al-Anwar  v8 p149 from تنبیه الخاطر

https://94reyhaneh.kowsarblog.ir/

Bihar al-Anwar  v8 p122 

https://94reyhaneh.kowsarblog.ir/

https://94reyhaneh.kowsarblog.ir/نحوه-ی-دفع-غذای-بهشتیان

 

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Guest ShiaEAli

ASALAM o Alaikum

Shukriaa All of you for your beautiful responses it's good to see that shia POV on this subject is broader and better unlike unauthentic ahadith Quoted by our sunni brothers 

One last question before ending this topic

Hindu Faith also talks about similar beings

What's the difference between ours and their View on this subject. Although Hinduism is based upon reincarnation which is somewhat infinity based concept why do they still talk about hell and heaven?

 

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14 hours ago, Ibn Tayyar said:

That is not true,

There is a difference between "do not eat or drink" and "have no need to eat or drink". Have you ever eaten something because it was delicious or to please the person who prepared it,  even though you were not hungry? And you still enjoyed it,  right? 

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12 hours ago, Guest ShiaEAli said:

Although Hinduism is based upon reincarnation which is somewhat infinity based concept why do they still talk about hell and heaven?

 

Well, the ta'wil that some of them do is that the 'hell' is actually the earthly sufferings you suffer for your misdeeds in your previous life. And vice versa for heaven. 

That being said, I have just got my copy of Sheikh Saduq (rh) 's book 'al-I'tiqādāt al-Imāmiyyāh' ('The Creed of the Imamites/Shi'a) ; it's a dense work. I was browsing through it and found no mention of the '72 Hoor' concept- which implies that our ancestors, the early shi'a in the times of the Imams (ams) or even during the Minor Occultation and soon afterwards, didn't hold such views. But if I find something related to it I'll surely post it here. 

 

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5 hours ago, notme said:

There is a difference between "do not eat or drink" and "have no need to eat or drink". Have you ever eaten something because it was delicious or to please the person who prepared it,  even though you were not hungry? And you still enjoyed it,  right? 

I was mainly responding to the idea that we will not have our physical bodies and engage in physical actions In Jannah.

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51 minutes ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Well, the ta'wil that some of them do is that the 'hell' is actually the earthly sufferings you suffer for your misdeeds in your previous life. And vice versa for heaven. 

That being said, I have just got my copy of Sheikh Saduq (rh) 's book 'al-I'tiqādāt al-Imāmiyyāh' ('The Creed of the Imamites/Shi'a) ; it's a dense work. I was browsing through it and found no mention of the '72 Hoor' concept- which implies that our ancestors, the early shi'a in the times of the Imams (ams) or even during the Minor Occultation and soon afterwards, didn't hold such views. But if I find something related to it I'll surely post it here. 

 

The only view which they may not have held is what concerns the number "72", but as far as Hoor being a reward for a mu'min (including martyrs) that is the belief of all Muslims, our scholars included, since the beginning, and is backed by Verses and authentic hadiths.

Edited by Ibn Tayyar
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Just now, Ibn Tayyar said:

The only view which they may not have held is the number "72", but as far as Hoor being a reward for a mu'min that is the belief of all Muslims, our scholars included, since the beginning, and is backed by Verses and authentic hadiths.

Yes, I was talking specifically about the figure '72'. 

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To the OP- See, if the problem with the idea of hoors is its dissonance with a secular-liberal understanding, then the liberals themselves are hypocritical for finding fault with this concept and then pushing for free sex and lax sexual norms. 

If it is the Hindus who are using it to mock us, then they are hypocrites too, since the concept of 'hoors' or nymphs is all over their scriptures as well. Even the biggest of gods within their pantheon and their leading saints are said to have either consorted with or enamoured by such nymphs according to their own scriptures. 

 

Edited by AbdusSibtayn
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5 hours ago, Ibn Tayyar said:

I was mainly responding to the idea that we will not have our physical bodies and engage in physical actions In Jannah.

Oh.  I did not mean to seem that I was saying that.  I was saying our bodies will not be like here,  and we will have no needs.  I think I must have not expressed it well.  

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On 9/27/2022 at 11:12 AM, Guest ShiaEAli said:

I am sorry like what about Women will they also be provided with something?

Or they will be for men and men only?

JazakAllah khair 

This is hardly about what you're going to be "provided" with. Whatever the nature of jannah is, we don't know and will never know until we're there. But if you're a woman, say, with an exceptionally strong sexual desire and you hope to find yourself content in the hereafter with regards to that desire, rest assured that you will be. It's Allah's promise. Whatever the means are; single mu'min husband, two shuhada, male angels, or something completely different - that's just trivial stuff that we can only speculate about. 

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A lot of speculation is going on in this topic. 72 is a number which means a lot, not 1 or 4 or 9 or 14, just a lot, too much, more than you could possibly need.

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There are plenty of Shias who believe that when we die our spirits are still alive and in Heaven our spirit will be placed inside a spiritual body, so anything you want will be given to you. You can fly off to any garden, lake, river, oasis, etc., anywhere you want to be. See anyone you want to see. Have a conversation with someone that you never had a chance to do. 

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I would also like to make the point that you will find in many of our hadiths which concern the rewards in Jannah there is a "amount" given. So for example, we have a hadith which mentions one of the rewards for a mu'min in Jannah being 800 virgins.

These numbers may simply mean "a lot" like sister @Hameedehmentioned.

So I do not believe there is much importance to be given to the "72" number as a point against Sunnism.

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Lesson 10: Paradise and Hell are the Embodiment of our Deeds

Quote

For a child who lives in the world of the fetus and who has seen nothing but the small world within its mother’s womb, concepts of the moon and sun and seas and waves and thunder storms and breezes and flowers and the beauties of this world would not exist.

All of its vocabulary is summarized in a few words. And if someone outside of its mother’s womb could speak with it, it would never be able to understand its language.

The limitations of this world with the extensiveness of another world is this much or more. Thus, we do not have nor will we ever have the power neither to know about the blessings of another world nor to know what Paradise is.

Thus, we read in a Tradition, “There are blessings in heaven which no eyes have seen, no ears have heard and have entered no one’s brains.”

https://www.al-islam.org/lets-learn-about-resurrection-naser-makarem-shirazi/lesson-10-paradise-and-hell-are-embodiment-our

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Isn't it pleasing that the الحواريون of Imams will be coupled with حور i.e., وَزَوَّجْنَاهُم بِحُورٍ عِينٍ ? 

On 9/24/2022 at 8:11 PM, Guest ShiaEAli said:

And what about women i am not a feminist but it could've been just spouse in paradise right?

Well, don't worry please at least :D

A pious male & female couple and their offspring will be there in Jannah together:

جَنَّاتُ عَدْنٍ يَدْخُلُونَهَا وَمَنْ صَلَحَ مِنْ آبَائِهِمْ وَأَزْوَاجِهِمْ وَذُرِّيَّاتِهِمْ ۖ وَالْمَلَائِكَةُ يَدْخُلُونَ عَلَيْهِمْ مِنْ كُلِّ بَابٍ {23}

[Shakir 13:23] The gardens of perpetual abode which they will enter along with those who do good from among their parents and their spouses and their offspring; and the angels will enter in upon them from every gate.

Do you know angels, the ones who bears the throne, asking forgiveness for believers day & night and are praying to Almighty Lord this:

رَبَّنَا وَأَدْخِلْهُمْ جَنَّاتِ عَدْنٍ الَّتِي وَعَدْتَهُمْ وَمَنْ صَلَحَ مِنْ آبَائِهِمْ وَأَزْوَاجِهِمْ وَذُرِّيَّاتِهِمْ ۚ إِنَّكَ أَنْتَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ {8}

[Shakir 40:8] Our Lord! and make them enter the gardens of perpetuity which Thou hast promised to them and those who do good of their fathers and their wives and their offspring, surely Thou are the Mighty, the Wise.

So its upto everyone what fate he/she want for him/herself. 

Now if there are حور in Jannah and their presence is making you feel uncomfortable, then غلمان will also be there in Jannah:

وَيَطُوفُ عَلَيْهِمْ غِلْمَانٌ لَهُمْ كَأَنَّهُمْ لُؤْلُؤٌ مَكْنُونٌ {24}

[Shakir 52:24] And round them shall go boys of theirs as if they were hidden pearls.

I haven't seen any male feeling uncomfortable about the presence of "ghilman" in Jannah :D.

Furthermore, for your complete satisfaction, these hoor & ghilman things will be granted to the ones who remained conscious along with their families & their spouses here in this world:

قَالُوا إِنَّا كُنَّا قَبْلُ فِي أَهْلِنَا مُشْفِقِينَ {26}

[Shakir 52:26] Saying: Surely we feared before on account of our families:

فَمَنَّ اللَّهُ عَلَيْنَا وَوَقَانَا عَذَابَ السَّمُومِ {27}

[Shakir 52:27] But Allah has been gracious to us and He has saved us from the punishment of the hot wind.

So if I am a Mo'min and I have a Mo'minah wife here in this world, I am not going to get rid of her in hereafter. She will be with me & I am sure she will handle the Hoori's very well there in Jannah :D.

 

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On a serious note, I would like to state that a relationship which has discovered its foundation i.e., المودة & الرحمة، will be there in Jannah together. Because this is what Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has provided for us here as He has said:

وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ أَنْ خَلَقَ لَكُمْ مِنْ أَنْفُسِكُمْ أَزْوَاجًا لِتَسْكُنُوا إِلَيْهَا وَجَعَلَ بَيْنَكُمْ مَوَدَّةً وَرَحْمَةً

 30:21] And one of His signs is that He created mates for you from yourselves that you may find rest in them, and He put between you love and compassion.

Mawwadat & Rehmah both are very valuable things. How can one be content with a situation where he gets separated  from his/her loved one? How can one be content after losing his/her soul-mate? Unless he or she lived his life in as zalim here in this world & appeared as mujrim in hereafter.

The very "mawwadat" demands the presence of our loved ones with us in Jannah.

On a less serious note, I would like to stress that as per verse 30:21, we all should respect our wives as "Ayatullah" :D.

Edited by Cool
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1 hour ago, Cool said:

Isn't it pleasing that the الحواريون of Imams will be coupled with حور i.e., وَزَوَّجْنَاهُم بِحُورٍ عِينٍ ? 

Well, don't worry please at least :D

A pious male & female couple and their offspring will be there in Jannah together:

جَنَّاتُ عَدْنٍ يَدْخُلُونَهَا وَمَنْ صَلَحَ مِنْ آبَائِهِمْ وَأَزْوَاجِهِمْ وَذُرِّيَّاتِهِمْ ۖ وَالْمَلَائِكَةُ يَدْخُلُونَ عَلَيْهِمْ مِنْ كُلِّ بَابٍ {23}

[Shakir 13:23] The gardens of perpetual abode which they will enter along with those who do good from among their parents and their spouses and their offspring; and the angels will enter in upon them from every gate.

Do you know angels, the ones who bears the throne, asking forgiveness for believers day & night and are praying to Almighty Lord this:

رَبَّنَا وَأَدْخِلْهُمْ جَنَّاتِ عَدْنٍ الَّتِي وَعَدْتَهُمْ وَمَنْ صَلَحَ مِنْ آبَائِهِمْ وَأَزْوَاجِهِمْ وَذُرِّيَّاتِهِمْ ۚ إِنَّكَ أَنْتَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ {8}

[Shakir 40:8] Our Lord! and make them enter the gardens of perpetuity which Thou hast promised to them and those who do good of their fathers and their wives and their offspring, surely Thou are the Mighty, the Wise.

So its upto everyone what fate he/she want for him/herself. 

Now if there are حور in Jannah and their presence is making you feel uncomfortable, then غلمان will also be there in Jannah:

وَيَطُوفُ عَلَيْهِمْ غِلْمَانٌ لَهُمْ كَأَنَّهُمْ لُؤْلُؤٌ مَكْنُونٌ {24}

[Shakir 52:24] And round them shall go boys of theirs as if they were hidden pearls.

I haven't seen any male feeling uncomfortable about the presence of "ghilman" in Jannah :D.

Furthermore, for your complete satisfaction, these hoor & ghilman things will be granted to the ones who remained conscious along with their families & their spouses here in this world:

قَالُوا إِنَّا كُنَّا قَبْلُ فِي أَهْلِنَا مُشْفِقِينَ {26}

[Shakir 52:26] Saying: Surely we feared before on account of our families:

فَمَنَّ اللَّهُ عَلَيْنَا وَوَقَانَا عَذَابَ السَّمُومِ {27}

[Shakir 52:27] But Allah has been gracious to us and He has saved us from the punishment of the hot wind.

So if I am a Mo'min and I have a Mo'minah wife here in this world, I am not going to get rid of her in hereafter. She will be with me & I am sure she will handle the Hoori's very well there in Jannah :D.

 

Some hadiths seem to indicate that these "wildaan" or "ghilmaan" in Jannah are the children who died before buloogh, and therefore became servants in Jannah.

Some, however, are of the opinion that they are exclusively made for Jannah to serve the believers.

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On 9/25/2022 at 10:32 PM, notme said:

And also you'll have no earthly body,  no physical needs.  

There is going to be mates in heaven that is written in Quran and there are going to be physical needs such as desire to eat something and thrones upon which Momineen will rest. The only things which won't be there is evil.

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