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Mahsa Amini, 22-year old Iranian, dies after morality police arrest

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9 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

There is really nothing good in other side either, living in taghut land while critizing Islamic countries and praising the west is worse.

I don't see anyone praising the west here.

 

9 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

You see the problem with your statement is that you can not apply to all those who live in West while praise Islamic countries, because for some of them there is no possibility to move to Islamic countries in the first place.

And why is that? What's the cause for it? Continuing to live, procreate, and pay taxes in the West won't do much to improve the situation in the islamic countries.

Edited by EiE
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Just now, GreenTree said:

Yes, islamic laws. But why are you supporting it when you are enjoying American laws? Does your family or my family follow every single islamic law 24hrs a day? Is there no such thing as leniency? One mistake, moral police out to get you - do we have this here? If you want a perfect islamic system, it won't happen. Until Imam Mahdi comes. No fallible can bother other fallible people how to live life and what to wear and what to eat. It is none of your business. You can recommend, but you cannot force. If strict islamic law system was correct, Aya. Sistani would have implemented it. 

It is really not about perfect system, it is about which is better system to safeguard your imaan. Islamic countries or western la-la lands whose whole system is made of atheism and destroy the faith in God.

 

Quote

One mistake, moral police out to get you - do we have this here? No fallible can bother other fallible people how to live life and what to wear and what to eat. It is none of your business.

They can only bother when the action is done in publicity and the action is against the Islamic laws, this is based on Quranic verse of

Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: They are the ones to attain felicity. -- Quran 3:104

We have many similiar hadith than this following one:

Abu Sa‘id al-Khudri reported that the prophet Muhammad said, "Whoever amongst you sees an evil, he must change it with his hand. If he is not able to do so, then with his tongue. And if he is not able to do so, then with his heart, and that is the weakest form of faith".

Do you think in the time of Prophet (saws) when The Prophet and the companions saw people doing haram in public they just ignore it and said that is not our business?

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8 minutes ago, EiE said:

I don't see anyone praising the west here.

I do.

Quote

And why is that? What's the cause for it? Continuing to live, procreate, and pay taxes in the West won't do much to improve the situation in the islamic countries.

Money issues, work issues, house issues, loan issues, passport issues, family issues etc.

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6 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

It is really not about perfect system, it is about which is better system to safeguard your imaan. Islamic countries or western la-la lands whose whole system is made of atheism and destroy the faith in God.

 

They can only bother when the action is done in publicity and the action is against the Islamic laws, this is based on Quranic verse of

Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: They are the ones to attain felicity. -- Quran 3:104

We have many similiar hadith than this following one:

Abu Sa‘id al-Khudri reported that the prophet Muhammad said, "Whoever amongst you sees an evil, he must change it with his hand. If he is not able to do so, then with his tongue. And if he is not able to do so, then with his heart, and that is the weakest form of faith".

Do you think in the time of Prophet (saws) when The Prophet and the companions saw people doing haram in public they just ignore it and said that is not our business?

Would you like it if your family member, or relative is arrested and beaten and put in coma over their non-perfect hejab? 

Please don't defend. Islamic laws can be good with individual freedom. Many of my close family members wear hejab, but out of their own choice. There is no force in Islam. 

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5 minutes ago, GreenTree said:

Would you like it if your family member, or relative is arrested and beaten and put in coma over their non-perfect hejab?

Do you even comprehend that wrong actions is not equal to wrong law? You are trying to justify here that because of subjective wrong actions here and there, then the law itself must be wrong. The law itself is supported by Qur'an and Sunnah.

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1 minute ago, Abu Nur said:

It doesn't stop you practice it, but it has the tendency to corrupt you and your family the more you live there.

So why do you live here? You can always move. You can be in any society and choose your own way. There were 18,000 sheikhs who had given fatwa against Imam Hussain. This clearly shows that even in an islamic environment, with Imams that are alive that one can meet and see. People can be very corrupt and un-islamic. West didn't kill imam Hussain. The so called Islamic patriots killed him. 

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4 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

Do you even comprehend that wrong actions is not equal to wrong law? You are trying to justify here that because of subjective wrong actions here and there, then the law itself must be wrong. The law itself is supported by Qur'an and Sunnah.

I comprehend that morality police is wrong, even if you try to support it by hadith. You enjoy western freedom, and defend morality police. Why not move to Iran? If morality police was the right way, Aya. Sistani would have implemented in Najaf and Karbala. So please stop trying to show morality police as sunnah and backing it with Quran. 

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I also find it funny how people that are living abroad, wants to impose the ayatollah regime on iranian people. It's pretty clear that the iranian people don't want the mullahs, and yet there are people abroad who doesn't care at all about what the iranian people themselves want.

No different than how the US is imposing dictator regimes on other countries around the world.

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9 hours ago, GreenTree said:

So why do you live here? You can always move.

Because in my situation I can not move. InshaAllah if it change then I will move.

Quote

You can be in any society and choose your own way. There were 18,000 sheikhs who had given fatwa against Imam Hussain. This clearly shows that even in an islamic environment, with Imams that are alive that one can meet and see. People can be very corrupt and un-islamic. West didn't kill imam Hussain. The so called Islamic patriots killed him. 

There is difference between Islamic countries and western countries and in Islam it is preferred for the individual to live in Islam countries.

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1 minute ago, Abu Nur said:

Because in my situation I can not move. InshaAllah if it change then I will move.

There is difference between Islamic countries and western countries and in Islam it is preferred for the individual to live in Islam countries.

 

My brother, in islamic society in most islamic countries, you are not liked as a shia and fatwas and oppressions are easily given rightful meaning to attack you. In the West, we have freedom to do Azadari without suicide squads coming after us. Please learn to appreciate the good that comes from your Lord, and reject the evil. We don't want morality police, we don't want wahabi sunni governments. We just want freedom to live the Shia way. This is what the West has given us. 

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9 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

It doesn't stop you practice it, but it has the tendency to corrupt you and your family the more you live there.

It’s not only in USA, it can happen anywhere brother. I live in Middle East, there is corruption in here, lgbt people are living here as well and practicing their sexuality, women wear clothes yet they are still naked, nepotism, music everywhere etc 

But still I prefer to live in Middle East and will never live in the west. 

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6 minutes ago, GreenTree said:

I comprehend that morality police is wrong, even if you try to support it by hadith. You enjoy western freedom, and defend morality police. Why not move to Iran? If morality police was the right way, Aya. Sistani would have implemented in Najaf and Karbala. So please stop trying to show morality police as sunnah and backing it with Quran. 

How it is wrong? Please support it by Quran and Sunnah. Show me that

Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: They are the ones to attain felicity. -- Quran 3:104

That this band of people can not be institutionalized.

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9 hours ago, Diaz said:

It’s not only in USA, it can happen anywhere brother. I live in Middle East, there is corruption in here, lgbt people are living here as well and practicing their sexuality, women wear clothes yet they are still naked, nepotism, music everywhere etc 

But still I prefer to live in Middle East and will never live in the west. 

Yes you must then live in country that has been westernized.

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5 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

Yes you must then live in country that has been westernized.

Maybe but majority of the people are against what’s happening in the place where I live. 

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11 minutes ago, GreenTree said:

My brother, in islamic society in most islamic countries, you are not liked as a shia and fatwas and oppressions are easily given rightful meaning to attack you.

Then move in countries where you can freely practice as Shia, no need to move to Saudi Arabia or other places.

Quote

In the West, we have freedom to do Azadari without suicide squads coming after us. Please learn to appreciate the good that comes from your Lord, and reject the evil. We don't want morality police, we don't want wahabi sunni governments. We just want freedom to live the Shia way. This is what the West has given us. 

So you think the only possible way to live in Shia way must be exactly in West, because it gives us freedom to do so without any fear. I'm sorry but this just utterly ridiculous.

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35 minutes ago, Dubilex said:

I also find it funny how people that are living abroad, wants to impose the ayatollah regime on iranian people. It's pretty clear that the iranian people don't want the mullahs, and yet there are people abroad who doesn't care at all about what the iranian people themselves want.

No different than how the US is imposing dictator regimes on other countries around the world.

What clear? Show me the proof.

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1 hour ago, EiE said:

 

Your replies to one of your shia believers are quite disrespectful and immature.

Respond to the rest of the post.  Stop cherry picking.

You put labels on people who disagree with you to dismiss anything that is questioned about your beliefs and statements.

Words like mansplaining, toxic masculinity, misogynist, the patriarchy, transphobia, branding people and automatically dismissing them without having a discussion on what you disagree with.  

This is why your society is outrageously dumb and desensitized of anything outside America.  

I responded to Sister @starlightand bint al kuffa and they both gave irrelevant one-liners.

While the rest of the world is suffering from the foreign policies of the American government, you want to defend the degenerate American culture, and give democracy (destroy) to the country that refuses to obide by American policies.

Stop defending the tyrants.  Fear God.

 

Is this fair, just, or honest?

 

US court orders Hezbollah to pay compensation over 2006 war
Israel owes Lebanon hundreds of millions worth of damages from an oil spill caused by a missile attack in 2006
By News Desk - September 21 2022

According to an AP report from 20 September, a group of US nationals won a case against Lebanese resistance group Hezbollah at the federal court in Brooklyn, New York.

In the ruling, Judge Steven L. Tiscione awarded the plaintiffs $111 million in compensation for alleged “physical and emotional injuries” sustained by Hezbollah’s rocket attacks in Israel in 2006.

“Only by exacting a heavy price from those who engage in the business of terrorism can we prevent the suffering and loss of additional victims to their violence,” said Darshan-Leitner, a lawyer representing the plaintiffs.

The court found Hezbollah’s actions, which were defending Lebanon from Israeli aggressions during the ‘Second Lebanon War,’ to be in violation of the US Anti-Terrorism Act (ATA).

The ATA, better known as the Patriot Act, was established by the US in a bid to deter terrorist acts on US soil in addition to enhancing law enforcement tools against the perpetrators of such crimes.

Nonetheless, the plaintiff’s lawyers acknowledge that this was a psychological win, considering it unlikely for Hezbollah to give much thought to the court’s rulings.

Hezbollah’s media unit refused to comment on the ruling when contacted by AP.

The Israeli aggressions on Lebanon in 2006 resulted in the death of at least 1,191 Lebanese and the injury of 4,409 others.

Additionally, the Israeli attacks killed at least 56 foreign nationals, including 5 UN soldiers, while wounding at least 37 others.

Israel has not paid any compensations for the war, and neither has the US, which played an instrumental role in resupplying the Israeli army with weapons during the war.

The UN General Assembly overwhelmingly voted in November 2021 in favor of a resolution demanding that Israel pay Lebanon $856.4 million as compensation for an oil spill caused by their attacks.

In July 2006, the Israeli air force destroyed the storage tanks at the thermal power station in Jiyeh, causing a 10 km wide oil spill covering half of Lebanon’s coastline.

Over 25,000 tons of heavy fuel oil were released into the eastern Mediterranean sea, causing the “worst ecological disaster in the oceans and the first time an oil spill happens outside the open sea,” according to the Lebanese Ministry of Environment.

“Israel bears the responsibility to pay immediate compensation to the government of Lebanon and to other countries that were directly affected by the oil spill, such as Syria, whose beaches were partially polluted,” the resolution indicated.

The resolution has not been acknowledged by Israel and has been continuously rejected by US representatives at the UN.

The US has voted against all UN resolutions that were intended to condemn Israel for its crimes during the 34-day war in Lebanon, despite the general consensus around the war’s aggressive nature.

https://thecradle.co/Article/News/15943

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Idk what happened to this world people complaining about one person how they died which there isnt clear evidence also comparing scholars cursing them when no one talks about Pakistan shias getting attacked left right every day. No one talks about Morocco shias etc also no one talking about these women protesting iran going naked. Youse aren't here for islam yous here to follow your dreams, but not thinking the after life. These people are the same people who also cursed the martyreds which none of us have the right to do that, none of us done jihad or joined military. These are supportes of shah, enemy of waliyat Al fiqh they call iran government kufr. No one talking about how American soldier killed iraqi women yesterday.

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^^^

So brother/sister

The template response is why do you live in Aussieland, and that you are a supremacist.  

Those who identify as Muslims are not going to respond to your statements.

They don't care about the ummah.  They care for their comfort and the money flowing in.

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7 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

You're regurgitating Shirazi and Hasbara polemics...you call yourself a leftist..

Sure, I guess? I don't really follow the whole Khamenei-Sistani-Shirazi beef so I wouldn't know. 
 

 

7 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

then listen to what a growing number of independent leftist intellectuals (e.g. Norman Finkelstein, Richard Medhurst, George Galloway etc. ) are saying about Tehran

I have, here and there. It's enough to make me think critically, so I'll give it that. I don't have to necessarily agree with their opinions.

 

7 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

stop taking isolated instances and blowing them out of proportion in order to boost an agenda...KEEP (clap) YOUR (clap) EYES (clap) ON (clap) THE (clap) BIG (clap) PICTURE (clap)…yeah, when you cease being an lounge chair critic and actually animate yourself and try to change things

Isolated incidents that have occurred at least several hundred times ever since most of us started reading the news?

Sheesh, sounds like there's a pattern of unfortunate isolated events occuring in some of these countries. Sometimes within a 2 or 3 month gap.  
 

Akhi, once you cease to look at the world from a battle pov, where everything ultimately boils down to mighty Tehran standing up to Jerusalem, you might actually find yourself in a better space. 
 

7 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

occasionally something unfortunate will happen...especially when operating in real-time...we have strip clubs, bars, liquor stores and other forms of degeneracy in 190 countries in the world...I think it's okay if 3, 4 or 5 countries refuse to allow it.

Don't be so clever, man. I can see right through it. Change up the words. What's the big deal if the trans atlantic slave trade persisted in the Americas? Who cares if 190 countries don't enforce the head covering but 2, 3, or 4 countries do? What's so bad if, like, 3 countries in the world have a morality police going around arresting people for holding hands?  It's not like it makes any difference in the real, big picture, hm? We have another big affair to look after. Let's just focus on that and screw everything else. 

 


These posts are disappointing, to say the least. I had expected some Iran fever, obviously, but nothing to this extent of people actually outright overlooking this incident and, in fact, even downplaying it. What a shame.

Edited by khizarr
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1 hour ago, Abu Nur said:

The law itself is supported by Qur'an and Sunnah.

No law in the Qur'an or Sunnah says that a government must enforce hijab onto women. At best, it is highly encouraged at the individual level, and historically much of it was a reflection of the pre-existing Hijazi culture, but that's about it.

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Cry now or do you only cry when someone is reportedly killed by the 'regime' as you say?

What about this? Where is the outrage? Why no one goes to the NGOs and Human rights organisations for Zainab? Wasn't she a woman?

This is not the first time by the way. Riots betweem protests happened before as well when they attacked police stations, banks, telephone bpoths and other govt offices.

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1 hour ago, khizarr said:

No law in the Qur'an or Sunnah says that a government must enforce hijab onto women. At best, it is highly encouraged at the individual level, and historically much of it was a reflection of the pre-existing Hijazi culture, but that's about it.

The law that I was referring is not Hijab. As for hijab I disagree with your false interpretation. 

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23 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

The law that I was referring is not Hijab.

What law were you referring to then? 

23 minutes ago, Abu Nur said:

As for hijab I disagree with your false interpretation. 

Fair enough. The truth is out there for everyone to figure out.

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2 hours ago, Laayla said:

You put labels on people who disagree with you to dismiss anything that is questioned about your beliefs and statements.

In reality, it is you who is acting in this manner, despite having no idea who you're talking to.

 

2 hours ago, Laayla said:

Words like mansplaining, toxic masculinity, misogynist, the patriarchy, transphobia, branding people and automatically dismissing them without having a discussion on what you disagree with.  

This is why your society is outrageously dumb and desensitized of anything outside America.

I have no idea what you're on about.

For the record, I'll just say that I don't support any country since I believe that their foundations are built on deceit and hypocrisy.

 

2 hours ago, Laayla said:

you want to defend the degenerate American culture, and give democracy (destroy) to the country that refuses to obide by American policies.

 

I find it pretty naive of you to believe that a man in exile suddenly rose to power and then decided to become an Islamic nation with no foreign interests, when the country has had a monarchy for many decades.
That raises the question, "Who is truly in charge?, How did it happen so fast?

Any foreign country, especially the United States and Israel, could easily assassinate current Iranian officials just as they did with general Soleimani and many other high profile iranian personnel without much consequences if they truly desired to remove Iran's "Islamic regime."


Why then do they not? I suppose that's a question that we should all think about.

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7 hours ago, Zainuu said:

It baffles me where this debate is moving. Many have provided concrete evidence about what actually happened in Iran like @Abu Hadi and @Ashvazdanghe and even some others but still no one has actually done anything to refute the evidence. Just plain non-sensical regime change talking points of CIA and MI6 reiterated again and again.

Sorry for calling out if it sounds bad. But this is for those who are way too busy on Iran-bashing rather than doing a sensible discussion.

My issue is the fact that there are so many ardent supporters of the Iranian government paying taxes to the very country that opposes their islamic government while sitting comfortably far away in support of the opposite of what they preach.
That's the very definition of hypocrisy, isn't it?

Only a very small percentage of us may have very legitimate reasons for not relocating there, unless you're a hypocrite, since you may then persuade yourself of anything you think would work best for personal comfort.

Then, just as the Western media cherry picks its news outlets, the Iranian nation does with their politics.
Sure, it may be in the best interests of their country, but as the symbol of Shia Islam, shouldn't they act differently and unselfishly regardless of who their political views oppose? Wouldn't that be amongst the greatest jihad?

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5 hours ago, EiE said:

My issue is the fact that there are so many ardent supporters of the Iranian government paying taxes to the very country that opposes their islamic government while sitting comfortably far away in support of the opposite of what they preach.
That's the very definition of hypocrisy, isn't it?

Exactly, they say America is trying to spread their fasad on us yet the same people are subscribing to Netflix and watch whatever they want. Look what happened to google and Amazon, they are making deal with Israel, ask the same people are they willing to stop using Amazon and google? 

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5 hours ago, EiE said:

In reality, it is you who is acting in this manner, despite having no idea who you're talking to.

I have no idea what you're on about.

For the record, I'll just say that I don't support any country since I believe that their foundations are built on deceit and hypocrisy.

I find it pretty naive of you to believe that a man in exile suddenly rose to power and then decided to become an Islamic nation with no foreign interests, when the country has had a monarchy for many decades.
That raises the question, "Who is truly in charge?, How did it happen so fast?

Any foreign country, especially the United States and Israel, could easily assassinate current Iranian officials just as they did with general Soleimani and many other high profile iranian personnel without much consequences if they truly desired to remove Iran's "Islamic regime."

Why then do they not? I suppose that's a question that we should all think about.

Excellent job in diverting the topic at hand.

You bring up Imam Khomeini about how he came to power. Then go start a new thread, what does that have to do with my post?

Remind yourself why you responded in the first place, and look back at my comment.

Now you want to go to the conspiracy theory route, and committing a red herring fallacy.

Offfff.

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7 hours ago, EiE said:

There are a lot of supremacists on this thread.


Some of you supremacists, probably the majority, live in the western world and pay taxes to the taghut system, the so-called enemies of ahlul bayt, enemies of islam, while also believing that Iran represents and is the flag bearer of Shia Islam.
That's what I call hypocrisy.

 

Did you happen to catch Sayed Ammar's British Shi'ism lecture, by any chance? Seems like you're learning from him :hahaha:

7 hours ago, GreenTree said:

My brother, 

Many of our imams were poisoned by those people, who later gave condolences to Imams family. So this is irrelevant. 

Who are you talking about? The Shirazis? (Not sarcastic btw, I genuinely don't know).

7 hours ago, GreenTree said:

Even if Mahsa was a serial killer, Was it right to kill her without a fair trial? A healthy, young girl apparently had health problems that her family hid for years. Until Godly angels decided to free earth from her burden. 

IF - if - the case is as you put it, then yes, it was an unjust, tragic incident. But the problem is that this narrative comes from anti-Revolutionary pro-West media. Not for a second will I believe what these liars have to say.

7 hours ago, GreenTree said:

Even If I am walking down the road completely naked, does that mean in any way to kill me?

Someone mentioned a great point before... I think it was Abu Hadi. He said that in Iran, many women aren't wearing proper hijab anyway. Then this police officer (supposedly) saw one woman (out of hundreds - mind you -) with a bad hijab, and he decided to detain her. How is this logical? This policeman grew up seeing women wearing the hijab in a faulty way for years, and then randomly decided to beat a woman to death? 

And this is only one problem with the story being presented. Another problem is that some investigators/doctors are saying that there's evidence of her being beaten, others say there isn't. @Ashvazdanghe mentioned that one of Mahsa Amini's family members said that she had fainted multiple times before, but he retracted his statement after her death.

The whole thing reeks of lies.

(And the Western media's history of lying about these things doesn't help their case). 

7 hours ago, GreenTree said:

If you want a perfect islamic system, it won't happen. Until Imam Mahdi comes. No fallible can bother other fallible people how to live life and what to wear and what to eat. It is none of your business. You can recommend, but you cannot force. If strict islamic law system was correct, Aya. Sistani would have implemented it. 

1. No one ever said that Iran was perfect. But it is, like someone mentioned before, the only government in the world working to implement the Ja'fari fiqh and shari3a. 

2. You mention fallibles, then you go on to say that if the strict Islamic law system was correct, Ayatollah Sistani (ha) would have implemented it. First of all, Ayatollah Sistani isn't infallible. He makes mistakes too. You can't disagree with us (pro-Revolutionaries) for supposedly saying that Iran is perfect then go on to treat Sayyed Sistani in the same manner. Secondly, Ayatollah Sistani doesn't hold control over Iraq in the same way that Imam Khamenei (ha) holds control over Iran. They're two different leaders in two different situations. 

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صُمٌّ بُكْمٌ عُمْيٌ فَهُمْ لَا يَرْجِعُونَ ‎﴿١٨

Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return [to the right path]. (2:18)


Aren’t we all old enough to see the patterns. These are typical “embarrassment” and “diversion” tactics whenever a real opposition leader has a chance to meet other world leaders, so the distractors have fodders to talk superfluous things instead of issue. 
 

Anybody remembers Neda Soltani, and the girl afterwards in Ahmedinejad protests.  

This whole Ms. Amini thing was about this below. 

 

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