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Mahsa Amini, 22-year old Iranian, dies after morality police arrest

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khizarr

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@kadhim, @khizarr here, put this in your peace pipes and smoke it 

'When European Women Wore Hijab and Niqab' (2 min)

 

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@kadhim, @khizarr 'Knowledgeable Jewish Brother Urges Jewish Sisters to Wear Muslim Hijab' (8 min)

 

 

Edited by Eddie Mecca
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@Eddie MeccaIf all you've understood from my conversations is that I'm against hijab or anyone's choice to wear a hijab, then either I have done a poor job at explaining myself or you have some serious difficulties in comprehending anyone who holds a view different than yours. 

Good day. 

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20 minutes ago, VoidVortex said:

to be fair I don't think they have advocated against hijab but against imposing it

Correct. I do think there are good arguments that head-covering specifically is not universally required for women, and that what Islamic modesty looks like on the ground depends on the context of time and place (beyond some very basic limits virtually everyone agrees with).

But regardless of this I don’t agree with forcing anyone to wear or not wear a head covering. Which is the actual relevant issue in this discussion. 

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7 hours ago, -Rejector- said:

There's another one :cry:

 

Meh. He’s trying to thread the needle and be fair and balanced, which, OK, fair enough.

One nitpicky point which I guess I’d fact check as partly true, partly false is the claim that 99+% approved the original constitution. This is technically correct.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_1979_Iranian_constitutional_referendum

However, that number obscures the fact that, based on figures on the earlier referendum a few months earlier approving to create a new constitution, 20+% (about 4.4 million people) sat out the second vote. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_1979_Iranian_Islamic_Republic_referendum

So really you’re talking maybe 77%. Still a decent majority. But not quite the one supporters like to brag about in the PR. 

Edited by kadhim
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On 12/1/2022 at 9:40 PM, kadhim said:

One nitpicky point which I guess I’d fact check as partly true, partly false is the claim that 99+% approved the original constitution. This is technically correct.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_1979_Iranian_constitutional_referendum

Salam , Lol you assume an editable source in Wikipedia as Technically correct :hahaha:

On 12/1/2022 at 9:40 PM, kadhim said:

So really you’re talking maybe 77%. Still a decent majority. But not quite the one supporters like to brag about in the PR. 

This is just your aasumption based on unreliable sources likewise Wikipedia :hahaha:

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11 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam , Lol you assume an editable source in Wikipedia as Technically correct :hahaha:

This is just your aasumption based on unreliable sources likewise Wikipedia :hahaha:

???

Are you questioning the reported numbers?

If yes, what do you claim are the real numbers for the two referenda, and what is your source?

If no, what even is your point supposed to be? 

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Protest-hit Iran says reviewing mandatory headscarf law

Tehran (AFP) – Iran said Saturday it is reviewing a decades-old law that requires women to cover their heads, as it struggles to quell more than two months of protests linked to the dress code.

Protests have swept Iran since the September 16 death in custody of Mahsa Amini, a 22-year-old Iranian of Kurdish origin arrested by the morality police for allegedly flouting the sharia-based law.

Demonstrators have burned their head coverings and shouted anti-government slogans. Since Amini's death, a growing number of women have not been observing hijab, particularly in Tehran's fashionable north.

"Both parliament and the judiciary are working (on the issue)" of whether the law needs any changes, Iran's attorney general Mohammad Jafar Montazeri said.

Quoted by the ISNA news agency, he did not specify what could be modified in the law by the two bodies, which are largely in the hands of conservatives.

The review team met on Wednesday with parliament's cultural commission "and will see the results in a week or two", the attorney general said.

President Ebrahim Raisi on Saturday said Iran's republican and Islamic foundations were constitutionally entrenched.

"But there are methods of implementing the constitution that can be flexible," he said in televised comments.

The hijab headscarf became obligatory for all women in Iran in April 1983, four years after the Islamic Revolution that overthrew the US-backed monarchy.

It remains a highly sensitive issue in a country where conservatives insist it should be compulsory, while reformists want to leave it up to individual choice.


After the hijab law became mandatory, with changing clothing norms it became commonplace to see women in tight jeans and loose, colourful headscarves.

But in July this year Raisi, an ultra-conservative, called for mobilisation of "all state institutions to enforce the headscarf law".

Many women continued to bend the rules, however.

In September, Iran's main reformist party called for the mandatory hijab law to be rescinded.

The Union of Islamic Iran People Party, formed by relatives of former reformist president Mohammad Khatami, on Saturday demanded the authorities "prepare the legal elements paving the way for the cancellation of the mandatory hijab law".

The opposition group is also calling for the Islamic republic to "officially announce the end of the activities of the morality police" and "allow peaceful demonstrations", it said in a statement.

Iran accuses its sworn enemy the United States and its allies, including Britain, Israel, and Kurdish groups based outside the country, of fomenting the street protests which the government calls "riots".

A general in Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps this week, for the first time, said more than 300 people have lost their lives in the unrest since Amini's death.

Iran's top security body, the Supreme National Security Council, on Saturday said the number of people killed during the protests "exceeds 200".

Cited by state news agency IRNA, it said the figure included security officers, civilians and "separatists" as well as "rioters".

Oslo-based non-governmental organisation Iran Human Rights on Tuesday said at least 448 people had been "killed by security forces in the ongoing nationwide protests".

UN rights chief Volker Turk said last week that 14,000 people, including children, had been arrested in the protest crackdown.

The Supreme National Security Council said that in addition to the human toll, the violence had caused damage valued at trillions of rials (millions of dollars).

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20221203-protest-hit-iran-says-reviewing-mandatory-headscarf-law 

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12 hours ago, kadhim said:

???

Are you questioning the reported numbers?

If yes, what do you claim are the real numbers for the two referenda, and what is your source?

If no, what even is your point supposed to be? 

Salam everyone knows nobody can relies on reported numbers in Wikipedia because it's not reliable for sources & numbers because anyone with any biased viewpoint can change text & statistics in Wikipedia so therefore it's not a reliable source for statistics .

real numbers for referanda is that Islamic Republic has been approved by 98%of voters & consitution has been approved by 75.23% of voters which in 1987 (ten years after approval) Referendum for amending consitution has been approved by 54.54% of voters which until now both of America & Israel as most wretched enemies of Iran couldn't deny validity of it.

 

Quote

Referenda

iran data portal logo
 
 

 

 

After the 1979 revolution, three referenda were held in Iran. This section contains data on these referenda.

 
 

Referendum on the Islamic Republic

 
Year 1979
Number of Eligible Voters 20,857,391
Number of Actual Voters 20,440,108
Voter Turnout (%) 98
Outcome Approved
 
 

Referendum on Approving the Constitution

 
Year 1979
Number of Eligible Voters 20,857,391
Number of Actual Voters 15,690,142
Voter Turnout (%) 75.23
Outcome Approved
 
 
 

Referendum on Amending the Constitution

 
Year 1989
Number of Eligible Voters 30,139,598
Number of Actual Voters 16,428,976
Voter Turnout (%) 54.51
Outcome Approved
 
 

 

 

Sources:

Iranian Ministry of Interior (www.moi.ir)
 
 

© 2022 – Syracuse University. All Rights Reserved. Accessibility | Privacy | Status | syr.edu

https://irandataportal.syr.edu/referenda

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5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam everyone knows nobody can relies on reported numbers in Wikipedia because it's not reliable for sources & numbers because anyone with any biased viewpoint can change text & statistics in Wikipedia so therefore it's not a reliable source for statistics .

That hasn’t been true for ages now. This is a mindless objection without specifics to demonstrate that a specific piece of information is wrong. 

5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

real numbers for referanda is that Islamic Republic has been approved by 98%of voters & consitution has been approved by 75.23%

In other words, essentially the same figures I already quoted. Thank you for closing the loop on this pointless tangent.

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10 hours ago, khizarr said:

It looks like their operations have been suspended for the time being. 

Wow. Those poor things. \s

Must be hard looking for new work in this economy when your resume is just years of beating up women and children. 

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2 hours ago, realizm said:

:salam:

It's all over the news, it seems true. @Ashvazdanghe

I don't know, but I've seen alot of videos uploaded lately of large groups of women walking around in Iran without the hijab. Noone seems to be saying anything to them or stopping them or questioning them. As someone who has never been to Iran, I don't know if this was normal before, and people are just uploading the videos now (to jump on the current bandwagon) or if it has always been this way. 

Nothing about these videos was shocking or offensive to me. It just seems like a mall or place in any of the numerous Arab countries where some women wear hijab and some don't, or it could be a mall in Dearborn. lol. 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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8 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

I don't know, but I've seen alot of videos uploaded lately of large groups of women walking around in Iran without the hijab.

The times I have been in the past you could always see women whose hijab was perfunctory, more so in some places (northern Tehran) and e.g. Shiraz than others.

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2 hours ago, kadhim said:

Must be hard looking for new work in this economy when your resume is just years of beating up women and children. 

Would be an honor to see what goes under the 'skills and responsibilities' section. 

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Remember about a month ago when the Iranian rock climber, Elnaz Rekabi, competed without her headscarf? The Western media jumped up and down with joy and said she was standing with the protesters, and she said it slipped off accidently?

Now, the Western media have all come and claimed that her family house has been destroyed in an act of revenge from the Iranian government.

Yes, her house was demolished, but there's a reason for that. And her house wasn't the only one which was destroyed. 

 

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7 hours ago, Abu Nur said:

Salaam Aleikum, 

Is it true that Iran decided to remove moral police? 

 

4 hours ago, realizm said:

:salam:

It's all over the news, it seems true. @Ashvazdanghe

 

3 hours ago, khizarr said:

It looks like their operations have been suspended for the time being. 

 

2 hours ago, kadhim said:

Wow. Those poor things. \s

Must be hard looking for new work in this economy when your resume is just years of beating up women and children. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

I don't know, but I've seen alot of videos uploaded lately of large groups of women walking around in Iran without the hijab. Noone seems to be saying anything to them or stopping them or questioning them. As someone who has never been to Iran, I don't know if this was normal before, and people are just uploading the videos now (to jump on the current bandwagon) or if it has always been this way. 

Nothing about these videos was shocking or offensive to me. It just seems like a mall or place in any of the numerous Arab countries where some women wear hijab and some don't, or it could be a mall in Dearborn. lol. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, hamz786 said:

I've also come across this news. Regardless of which side you are on surely we can agree that at least some action has been taken against the main cause of issue. That's if the news is true. 

Iran abolishes morality police

Quote

Iran has disbanded its morality police, Mohammad Jafar Montazeri, the nation’s attorney general, confirmed on Saturday. This comes as the country has been embroiled in weeks of violent anti-government protests over the death of a young woman detained by the force.

Montazeri said that while the institution had been abolished, authorities will “continue to monitor behavioral actions at the community level.”

https://www.rt.com/news/567648-iran-abolish-morality-police/

Quote

#Iran freezes the work of the "morality police" and places the issue of obligatory Hijab for discussion.
...
Today, on December 4 , the Iranian General Prosecutor announced the suspension of their work.

The Iranian Public Prosecutor confirmed that Parliament and the Supreme Council of the Revolution are discussing the issue of the Hijab and other related issues, and will announce the results within two weeks.

https://t.me/VanessaBeeley/11139

Quote

A decision to formally disband the morality police would likely involve Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, who has strongly defended mandatory hijab in recent years, and the Supreme Council of the Cultural Revolution, a government panel appointed by Mr. Khamenei that created the police force.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/iran-abolishes-morality-police-considers-changing-hijab-laws-official-says-11670165171

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6 hours ago, -Rejector- said:

Iran abolishes morality police

Those are all western sources. I heard that what RT said (quoting Mr. Mohammad Jafar Montazeri) has been denied or contradicted by others. 

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2 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

Those are all western sources. I heard that what RT said (quoting Mr. Mohammad Jafar Montazeri) has been denied or contradicted by others. 

Yeah, apart from RT, no Iranian media outlets that I've seen have mentioned this.

 @Ashvazdanghe what's happening?

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https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/4/iran-prosecutor-general-signals-morality-police-suspended

 

Quote

There has been no official police confirmation on the forces being taken off the streets, and no sign that a law requiring mandatory hijab will be changed.

Quote

The morality police “has no connection with the judiciary and was shut down by the same place that it had been launched from in the past”, he said, reportedly answering a question on why the morality police have been shut down.

Quote

There were no other confirmations that the work of the patrolling units – officially tasked with ensuring “moral security” in the society – has been terminated. Montazeri also did not say the morality police have been indefinitely scrapped.

Moreover, there was no indication the law that imposes the mandatory dress code will be terminated

 

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7 hours ago, -Rejector- said:

Yeah, apart from RT, no Iranian media outlets that I've seen have mentioned this.

 @Ashvazdanghe what's happening?

 

9 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

Those are all western sources. I heard that what RT said (quoting Mr. Mohammad Jafar Montazeri) has been denied or contradicted by others. 

Salam

Some foreign media, citing a quote from the Attorney General of the country, claimed that the Irshad patrol has been closed in Iran.

Al-Alam - Iran / political

In a statement and in response to a question, the Attorney General of the country has said: Irshad Patrol has nothing to do with the Judiciary, and it was closed from the same place it was established in the past.

This comment of the Attorney General of the country is raised while no official in the Islamic Republic of Iran has confirmed the closure of the Irshad Patrol.

The maximum impression that can be taken from the words of Hojjat al-Islam Montazeri is that the Irshad patrol has not been related to the judiciary since its establishment; As the Attorney General has emphasized: the judicial branch will continue its monitoring of behavioral reactions at the community level.

Some foreign media have tried to introduce this statement of the Attorney General as the Islamic Republic's withdrawal from the hijab and chastity issue due to  recent disturbances.

https://fa.alalam.ir/news/6464538/آیا-گشت-ارشاد-تعطیل-شده-است؟

16 hours ago, khizarr said:

Would be an honor to see what goes under the 'skills and responsibilities' section. 

 

18 hours ago, kadhim said:

Wow. Those poor things. \s

Must be hard looking for new work in this economy when your resume is just years of beating up women and children. 

Both of You & @khizarr just repeat mouthpiec of anti Iran propganda due to your grudge against Iran .

16 hours ago, -Rejector- said:
Quote

A decision to formally disband the morality police would likely involve Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, who has strongly defended mandatory hijab in recent years, and the Supreme Council of the Cultural Revolution, a government panel appointed by Mr. Khamenei that created the police force.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/iran-abolishes-morality-police-considers-changing-hijab-laws-official-says-11670165171

This is totally a blatant lie which from beginig of Islamic revolution of Iran Imam Khamenei so then Council of the Cultural Revolution have no relation to founding of morality police which zionist media have spread such wrong information due to lack of knowledge of people from duties of WF which in similar fashion founding morality police has no relation to Council of the Cultural Revolution which everyone in Iran knows that founders of the morality police & forcing mandatory Hijab have been current leaders of reformist party likewise mr.Rohani the expresident of Iran which  one of prominant founder of morality police has been infamous reformist Akbar Ganji who his title has been "Akbar punaise"  for putting drawing pins in forehead women for not having Hijab or proper Hijab which in recent years , he has turned against Islam so then joined to anti Iran party .

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9 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

The transition period was over, some could argue decades ago. So the need for the morality police isn't there anymore. There have been many conversations over the years, according to these brothers, at the top levels of government about disbanding this unit of the police force.

Salam In Iran we call it as "komiteh کمیته" as Committee (Persian: کمیته, romanized: Komīte) which it has been founded for keeping order by volunteers although at first it has been good for keeping order in society so then due to hijacking it by thugs under guise of  volunteers   has resulted to rspreading radicalism & corruption in it which Iranians have painful memeories from it due to arresting & harasing couples in streets which for example my parents have been arrested by one of it's units just due walking besides each other in street which fortunately they could release themselves by showing certificate of their wedding anyway after a while it has cancelled which after purging thugs from it so then it has been merged with other law enforcement units .

Quote

Islamic Revolution Committees
The Committee was responsible for enforcing Islamic regulations and moral standards on social behavior. Founded as one of Organizations of the Iranian Revolution in 1979, it was eventually merged with Shahrbani and Gendarmerie to form Law Enforcement Command of Islamic Republic of Iran (FARAJA) in 1991.

Islamic Revolution Committees - Wikipedia

 

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Manifest of Islamic Revolution Committee https://qavanin.ir/Law/PrintText/111603 which in non of it's parts about enforcing Hijab in community or being morality policy which later due to hijacking volunteers by thugs it has misused by thugs for harasing people which due that it has cancelled so then thgs have been purged from it.

https://qavanin.ir/Law/PrintText/111603

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