Does God Exist? A Muslim's Response To New Atheism / Dr. Ali Ataie (49 min)

[Eddie Mecca]

Pure Beast Mode...released about a month ago

 

[Eddie Mecca]

Firstly, in a truly relativistic universe nothing can be condemned as "evil". For example, dropping a 2,000 lbs. bomb on a Third World civilian population is merely a rearrangement of molecules. Secondly, the problem of evil is seen as a backboard shattering, slam-dunk win for the likes of Harris, Dawkins, Maher, Krauss etc. but the problem of good nullifies the arguments raised by the problem of evil. They claim evil is everywhere and goodness is a phantom of our imagination(s). That's not true. Goodness can be observed everyday and everywhere. A mother's love, a cat's purr, children playing and laughing, the smell of coffee brewing in the fall, a Jehovah's Witness helping an old lady to cross the street, the stillness of a lake etc. These are the instances and displays of kindness and beauty that selective vision negates and refuses to acknowledge.  

Edited September 13, 2022 by Eddie Mecca

[Abu Nur]

When you go out of bounderies, all these concept became worthless and meaningless. Evil become subjective, Goodness become subjective, such that you try to justify your actions withouth any boundery. What our modern era is expirencing in masses is this life of no boundery, life of invidualism.

[AbdusSibtayn]

9 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Firstly, in a truly relativistic universe nothing can be condemned as "evil". For example, dropping a 2,000 lbs. bomb on a Third World civilian population is merely a rearrangement of molecules. Secondly, the problem of evil is seen as a backboard shattering, slam-dunk win for the likes of Harris, Dawkins, Maher, Krauss etc. but the problem of good nullifies the arguments raised by the problem of evil. They claim evil is everywhere and goodness is a phantom of our imagination(s). That's not true. Goodness can be observed everyday and everywhere. A mother's love, a cat's purr, children playing and laughing, the smell of coffee brewing in the fall, a Jehovah's Witness helping an old lady to cross the street, the stillness of a lake etc. These are the instances and displays of kindness and beauty that selective vision negates and refuses to acknowledge.  

So Hassan Shemrani's pal and Ghazali fanboy (Ali Ataei) finally having to resort to Avicenna's (Twelver-leaning Isma'ili) and Muhaqqiq Tusi's (hardcore Twelver) theodicy - who in turn borrowed from Imam Sādiq (as)'s theodicy- to respond to the problem of evil. Nice. 

His Imams Ibn Taimiyyah and al-Ghazali will be so disappointed in him for taking from the Rāfidāh, as will be his Anti-Majos, TSN and Sunnah Discourse-loving buddies Paul Williams (aka 'Free Monotheist') and Joseph Lumbard. 

Tough times man. There's no escaping these Rāfidāh. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by AbdusSibtayn

[Eddie Mecca]

14 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

finally having to resort to Avicenna's (Twelver-leaning Isma'ili) and Muhaqqiq Tusi's (hardcore Twelver) theodicy - who in turn borrowed from Imam Sādiq (as)'s theodicy- to respond to the problem of evil. Nice.

The Kalam cosmological argument can be traced all the way back to Aristotle — The concept was later refined by Al Ghazali and Averroes — I'm confident that if we do a little archaeological excavation we'll discover the metaphysical origins of the theory derive from the teachings of the 'People of the House' (peace be upon them) somewhere — They are the fountainheads of learning and the torchbearers of light and understanding — All Islamic wisdom derives from them either directly or indirectly.  

14 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Hassan Shemrani's pal

I highly doubt Ali Ataie and Hassan Sherani are buddies — They come from two diametrically opposed and antagonistic versions of Sunnism (the age-old Sufism versus Salafism schism) — Zaytuna Institute founders (Hamza Yusuf and Zaid Shakir) have said some very unfavorable things about Wahhabism / Salafism in the past — In the same vein, the few times I saw Dr. Ali elude to Salafism, it has almost always been in a negative light — I've watched dozens and dozens of his videos — Dr. Ali critiques Shi'ism on rare occasion, but this is normal and natural because he's not a Shi'i and from time-to-time differences in doctrine need clarification / elucidation (there's a difference between bona fide theological differences of opinion and the dark incendiary overtures or semi-threatening sectarian mumbo-jumbo spewed by Sunni Discourse / Anti-Magos etc.) — He's also mentioned Shi'ism in a favorable light on a few occasions — Also, I'm not sure why you're harboring a gripe against Paul Williams — Personally, I think he's doing a splendid job with Blogging Theology — He's had Jewish guests (e.g. Rabbi Tovia Singer) Salafi guests, Sufi guests, Christian guests, atheist and agnostic scholars on as guests (e.g. Bart Ehrman) etc. — He recently invited both Bilal Muhammad and Khalil Andani on as guests — Seems pretty balanced and evenhanded to me.

14 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Ghazali fanboy

I think I read online (many many moons ago) that Al Ghazali once said or described al-Ḥusayn ibn ʿAlī (peace be upon him) as a poorly-calibrated or ill-fated adventurer who got exactly what he deserved from the Umayyad authorities — I read it once (about twenty years ago) and never read or heard anything else about it since.

14 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

Ibn Taimiyyah

The Saudi petrodollar has really popularized Ibn Taymiyyah during the last 50 years — It seems like every Sunni (even the normative or traditionalist Ashʿarī) khateeb feels compelled to reference him in some form or another in order for the sermon to be certified kosher. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Eddie Mecca

[Ashvazdanghe]

1 hour ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Dr. Ali critiques Shi'ism on rare occasion, but this is normal and natural because he's not a Shi'i and from time-to-time differences in doctrine need clarification / elucidation (there's a difference between bona fide theological differences of opinion and the dark incendiary overtures or semi-threatening sectarian mumbo-jumbo spewed by Sunni Discourse / Anti-Magos etc.) — He's also mentioned Shi'ism in a favorable light on a few occasions

Salam he is likewise a Ferris wheel which although you enjoy from sitting in it but at end of day it doesn't go anywhere in similar fashion his attitude to Shia Islam just keeps him at bay without any progress anyway his attribute keeps him away from radicalism.

[AbdusSibtayn]

11 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

The Kalam cosmological argument can be traced all the way back to Aristotle — The concept was later refined by Al Ghazali and Averroes — I'm confident that if we do a little archaeological excavation we'll discover the metaphysical origins of the theory derive from the teachings of the 'People of the House' (peace be upon them) somewhere — They are the fountainheads of learning and the torchbearers of light and understanding — All Islamic wisdom derives from them either directly or indirectly.  

Aren't theodicy and the kalam cosmological argument different things? And here he's deploying a very specific version of the theodicy, which can be traced back to two major Shiite figures. Wouldn't it be more academically honest to give them the credit? Or is Ataei shying away from the mention because, err, well, the rafida, you know... 

12 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

highly doubt Ali Ataie and Hassan Sherani are buddies — They come from two diametrically opposed and antagonistic versions of Sunnism (the age-old Sufism versus Salafism schism) — Zaytuna Institute founders (Hamza Yusuf and Zaid Shakir) have said some very unfavorable things about Wahhabism / Salafism in the past — In the same vein, the few times I saw Dr. Ali elude to Salafism, it has almost always been in a negative light — I've watched dozens and dozens of his videos — Dr. Ali critiques Shi'ism on rare occasion, but this is normal and natural because he's not a Shi'i and from time-to-time differences in doctrine need clarification / elucidation (there's a difference between bona fide theological differences of opinion and the dark incendiary overtures or semi-threatening sectarian mumbo-jumbo spewed by Sunni Discourse / Anti-Magos etc.) — He's also mentioned Shi'ism in a favorable light on a few occasions

The point remains that if you have been even remotely acquainted with the internet Islamic discourse in the past decade or so, there's no way you can not know what those guys at kr_hcy/ TSN do. There's no way you cannot know who their major propagandists are, and what they represent. I find it difficult to believe that Ataei is ignorant of the same, given how active he is on the social media. He decides to go ahead and do a program with a rabidly anti-Shia troll, a terrorist who encourages Shia genocide. Would you still give him a benefit of doubt if he made a public appearance with a known Nazi or Zionist? There's no way Ataei could have agreed to the webinar unless he believes that the Shia are dispensable and what terrorists like Shemrani say about them doesn't matter. 

12 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Also, I'm not sure why you're harboring a gripe against Paul Williams — Personally, I think he's doing a splendid job with Blogging Theology — He's had Jewish guests (e.g. Rabbi Tovia Singer) Salafi guests, Sufi guests, Christian guests, atheist and agnostic scholars on as guests (e.g. Bart Ehrman) etc. — He recently invited both Bilal Muhammad and Khalil Andani on as guests — Seems pretty balanced and evenhanded to me.

Really? Gripe? It is something I believe people should know about him, and I have previously very clearly expressed my reasons for doing so. Given the terminally online person that Williams is, he too, much like his colleague Ataei, can no way be ignorant of who Farid Bahraini and his team are, and what agenda they represent. He nonetheless has no qualms about promoting their nasibi apologia of a book on Ashura just because the author is (to quote him) "Sunni alhamdulillah". 

As the saying goes, if there are two nazis at a table and a third one sits down with them without any protest, there are now three nazis at the table. Given these glaring red flags I care precious little for Ataei's Or Williams's pretence at 'even handedness' or inclusivity. If you are promoting nawasib or Nasibi content, you are as good as a nasibi to me. 

12 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

think I read online (many many moons ago) that Al Ghazali once said or described al-Ḥusayn ibn ʿAlī (peace be upon him) as a poorly-calibrated or ill-fated adventurer who got exactly what he deserved from the Umayyad authorities — I read it once (about twenty years ago) and never read or heard anything else about it since.

He (the curse of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) be upon him) did much more than that. He has argued that it is HARAM (yes you read that right) to narrate the masaib of the Ahlul Bayt (ams) since it causes one to 'lose the love for the sahaba' (LOL), and then going on to call Yazid (la) 'rahmatullah alaih' who only made an 'innocent mistake' by mercilessly slaughtering the piece of the Prophet (S) 's heart, massacring and disrobing the daughters of Rasoolallah (S) and parading them in marts and town squares! 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) raise him, and those who follow in his footsteps, with their ameer Yazid (la). 

12 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

The Saudi petrodollar has really popularized Ibn Taymiyyah during the last 50 years — It seems like every Sunni (even the normative or traditionalist Ashʿarī) khateeb feels compelled to reference him in some form or another in order for the sermon to be certified kosher. 

Agreed. 

So to sum up, the dignity of the Ahlul Bayt (ams) and their teachings, as well as the blood and dignity of my Imamiyyah brothers and sisters who are of my flesh and blood, is dearer to me than whatever intellectual pleasure posers like Ataei, Williams or Lumbard have to afford. If they choose to associate with the nawasib, that's their call, but I cannot respect them. It's high time that the already gullible Shiite audience who are always floored by whoever has a few sweet nothings to say about the Ahlul Bayt (ams), be warned against such double dealers. They must know that they can not win the trust of conscientious, self-respecting shias by preaching ecumenism on one hand, and giving platforms to nawasib on the other. 

[Eddie Mecca]

8 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

The point remains that if you have been even remotely acquainted with the internet Islamic discourse in the past decade or so, there's no way you can not know what those guys at kr_hcy/ TSN do. There's no way you cannot know who their major propagandists are, and what they represent. I find it difficult to believe that Ataei is ignorant of the same, given how active he is on the social media. He decides to go ahead and do a program with a rabidly anti-Shia troll, a terrorist who encourages Shia genocide. Would you still give him a benefit of doubt if he made a public appearance with a known Nazi or Zionist? There's no way Ataei could have agreed to the webinar unless he believes that the Shia are dispensable and what terrorists like Shemrani say about them doesn't matter.

What is "kr_hcy/ TSN"? Who are the propagandists and what do they represent? — I ran a Google search and a YouTube search and typed every conceivable combination imaginable (e.g. Ali Ataie + Hassan Shemrani, Ali Ataie + Farid Bahraini, Paul Williams + Ali Ataie + Hassan Shemrani + Webinar etc. etc. and couldn't find anything — Also, I quickly searched Blogging Theology's' video library — I'm seeing several Ali Ataie interviews, a Daniel Haqiqatjou interview, several Hamza Tzortzis interviews, Imam Tom, Bilal Muhammad, Khalil Andani, Dr. Abdul Wahid, Naoki Yamamoto, Adnan Rashid, Prof. John J. Collins, Firas Zahabi, Jonathan Brown, Prof. Dale Martin, Bart Erhman, Prof. Shoaib Ahmed Malik etc. etc. — no Wahhabi-promoting webinar that I can see — Could you post the webinar with Ali Ataie, Paul Williams, Hassan Shemrani and Farid Bahraini mentioned above? Thanks in advance

8 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

He (the curse of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) be upon him) did much more than that. He has argued that it is HARAM (yes you read that right) to narrate the masaib of the Ahlul Bayt (ams) since it causes one to 'lose the love for the sahaba' (LOL), and then going on to call Yazid (la) 'rahmatullah alaih' who only made an 'innocent mistake' by mercilessly slaughtering the piece of the Prophet (S) 's heart, massacring and disrobing the daughters of Rasoolallah (S) and parading them in marts and town squares! 

May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) raise him, and those who follow in his footsteps, with their ameer Yazid (la).

Sunnism harbors an animosity and resentment to the Prophet and his progeny — most of the time it's hidden and sometimes it rears its ugly head in an overt manner (e.g. Al Ghazali, Ibn Taymiyyah, Umayyads etc.) — all the spin doctoring and mental gymnastics won't change my mind. Sunnis are the victims of the Umayyad propaganda campaign — Can you post a link or an article regarding Al Ghazali and what you mentioned above? I'm interested in reading more — Jazāk Allāhu Khayran in advance

8 hours ago, AbdusSibtayn said:

gullible Shiite audience

The bottom-line is we are commanded to Islamic unity by the Qurʾān and there's no way around it —  Sayyid Sistani said, “I love everyone, and this religion (i.e. Islam) is the religion of love. Shi'is should defend Sunnis’ social and political rights before defending their own rights and we call (everyone) to unity,” He added, “As I have said before, Shi'is should not call Sunnis their brethren, but their own ‘souls' (or 'selves').

[Ashvazdanghe]

2 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Can you post a link or an article regarding Al Ghazali and what you mentioned above? I'm interested in reading more

Salam

Ghazali: "Cursing Muslims is not permissible, and Yazid is a Muslim, and associating him about killing or ordering or consenting to the killing of Hussain (عليه السلام) is having suspicion about Muslims and is forbidden according to the Book and Sunnah. Anyone who doubts the authenticity of this attribution is extremely foolish."

Quote

Ghazali goes on to say: "One should have good suspicion towards the people of Islam, and if it is proven, as the Ash'aris say: killing Muslims does not lead to disbelief, the killer may be Yazid, but if he repents and then dies, then his cursing him is not permissible, like an infidel who  It is not permissible cursing him if repents , and it is not known that Yazid did not repent of the killing of Seyyed al-Shohada (عليه السلام). Therefore, cursing such a Muslim is not permissible, and if someone curses, he has committed a sin." [1]

[The Revival of the Religious Sciences, vol. 3, p. 106]

احیاء العلوم ج ۳ ص ۱۰۶

Quote

Ghazali (the famous  scholar of Shiite opponents ): Yazid is a Muslim and whoever curses him is cursed!

?? Ibn Tulun (the famous scholar of Shiite opponents) writes:

Imam Hojjat al-Islam Ghazali was asked about the person who declares the curse of Yazid, whether there is such a ruling? Did Yazid agree to kill Hussain bin Ali or not? Is pity for Yazid permissible or not? Please answer.?? Ghazali answered: Cursing a Muslim is not allowed at all and anyone who curses a Muslim is cursed. And the Prophet said: A Muslim is not a cursing person, and how can it be permissible to curse a Muslim while we are prohibited from cursing cattle?? And according to the hadith of the Prophet, the sanctity of the Muslim is higher than the sanctity of the Kaaba, and the Islam of Yazid bin Muawiya is proven?? And it has not been proven that he killed Hussain, or that he ordered to kill him, or that he agreed to it, or that he was present when he was killed. This thing has not been proven about him, because suspecting a Muslim is also forbidden and God has said: "avoid much suspicion. Indeed, some suspicion is a sin " and the Prophet said: "God forbids a Muslim's blood, wealth, honor, and that he be suspected of evil." 

موسسه مصاف - غزالی (عالم مشهور مخالفین شیعه): یزید مسلمان است و هرکس او را لعن کند ملعون است! (masaf.ir)

حمایت محمد غزالی از یزید | پایگاه جامع فرق، ادیان و مذاهب (adyannet.com)

[Abu Nur]

1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam

Ghazali: "Cursing Muslims is not permissible, and Yazid is a Muslim, and associating him about killing or ordering or consenting to the killing of Hussain (عليه السلام) is having suspicion about Muslims and is forbidden according to the Book and Sunnah. Anyone who doubts the authenticity of this attribution is extremely foolish."

[The Revival of the Religious Sciences, vol. 3, p. 106]

احیاء العلوم ج ۳ ص ۱۰۶

موسسه مصاف - غزالی (عالم مشهور مخالفین شیعه): یزید مسلمان است و هرکس او را لعن کند ملعون است! (masaf.ir)

حمایت محمد غزالی از یزید | پایگاه جامع فرق، ادیان و مذاهب (adyannet.com)

I really can not fathom out of this. All that Islamic knowledge and reflecting upon years and producing many works. And still can make this very horrible statement that have really no valid reasoning. It is like saying killing the Prophet and then repent makes you still muslim and believer. 

This demonstrates that it's really not about how much knowledge you have or how far you reflect upon this but what really the heart accept and defends. Ghazali heart loves sahaba and he will defend them so far that he will even go out of boundaries even when it does not make any sense. 

Now, this is the same with everybody else, if their heart is attach to something that goes ageinst the teaching of Ahlulbayt, they will no matter how amazing is their capacity of knowledge is, show the opposition of Ahlulbayt teaching even when it can be shown to be false. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Abu Nur

[AbdusSibtayn]

On 9/15/2022 at 9:40 AM, Eddie Mecca said:

What is "kr_hcy/ TSN"? Who are the propagandists and what do they represent? — I ran a Google search and a YouTube search and typed every conceivable combination imaginable (e.g. Ali Ataie + Hassan Shemrani, Ali Ataie + Farid Bahraini, Paul Williams + Ali Ataie + Hassan Shemrani + Webinar etc. etc. and couldn't find anything — Also, I quickly searched Blogging Theology's' video library — I'm seeing several Ali Ataie interviews, a Daniel Haqiqatjou interview, several Hamza Tzortzis interviews, Imam Tom, Bilal Muhammad, Khalil Andani, Dr. Abdul Wahid, Naoki Yamamoto, Adnan Rashid, Prof. John J. Collins, Firas Zahabi, Jonathan Brown, Prof. Dale Martin, Bart Erhman, Prof. Shoaib Ahmed Malik etc. etc. — no Wahhabi-promoting webinar that I can see — Could you post the webinar with Ali Ataie, Paul Williams, Hassan Shemrani and Farid Bahraini mentioned above? Thanks in advance

The webinar was hosted by Shemrani on his Twitter page, which Ataei attended. I'll see if I can find the link, inshallah. 

Kr_hcy, I believe, no longer exists. TSN stands for *************, Farid's website. 

Paul Williams did not attend a webinar with these people, but he did endorse and promote Farid's book on Ashura, which is tantamount to endorsing the Nasibi narrative on Ashura. 

On 9/15/2022 at 9:40 AM, Eddie Mecca said:

Sunnism harbors an animosity and resentment to the Prophet and his progeny — most of the time it's hidden and sometimes it rears its ugly head in an overt manner (e.g. Al Ghazali, Ibn Taymiyyah, Umayyads etc.) — all the spin doctoring and mental gymnastics won't change my mind. Sunnis are the victims of the Umayyad propaganda campaign — Can you post a link or an article regarding Al Ghazali and what you mentioned above? I'm interested in reading more — Jazāk Allāhu Khayran in advance

Agreed. I believe brother @Ashvazdanghe has done the needful. 

On 9/15/2022 at 9:40 AM, Eddie Mecca said:

The bottom-line is we are commanded to Islamic unity by the Qurʾān and there's no way around it —  Sayyid Sistani said, “I love everyone, and this religion (i.e. Islam) is the religion of love. Shi'is should defend Sunnis’ social and political rights before defending their own rights and we call (everyone) to unity,” He added, “As I have said before, Shi'is should not call Sunnis their brethren, but their own ‘souls' (or 'selves').

No one is doubting the exhortation to unity which the marjaiyyah commands us to. But what exactly is unity? If unity is giving free reign to people who are making leeway for nasibi narratives to grow roots, willingly or unwillingly, then this is a mistaken view of unity, and such people, whoever they may be, must be identified and exposed. Harbouring and enabling such rank nasibism weakens their credibility, and not my critique of them. 

[AbdusSibtayn]

On 9/15/2022 at 1:18 PM, Abu Nur said:

I really can not fathom out of this. All that Islamic knowledge and reflecting upon years and producing many works. And still can make this very horrible statement that have really no valid reasoning. It is like saying killing the Prophet and then repent makes you still muslim and believer. 

This demonstrates that it's really not about how much knowledge you have or how far you reflect upon this but what really the heart accept and defends. Ghazali heart loves sahaba and he will defend them so far that he will even go out of boundaries even when it does not make any sense. 

Now, this is the same with everybody else, if their heart is attach to something that goes ageinst the teaching of Ahlulbayt, they will no matter how amazing is their capacity of knowledge is, show the opposition of Ahlulbayt teaching even when it can be shown to be false. 

These people are a sign from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). No matter how learned you are, or how many degrees you hold, no amount of knowledge benefits someone who has no ma'arifah. 

[GreenTree]

Thank you for sharing.