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In the Name of God بسم الله

My struggle with Islam.

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Hi, everyone. I hope everyone who reads this is doing well. This is mainly a venting post. I'm not seeking validation or anything like that. This topic might cause some discomfort in some and I would not want that. Please don't read further if this might effect you negatively.

 

I posted recently about how I left islam and decided to come back. While I decided to come back to Islam, I'm afraid that I am not being sincere. I feel like I am returning because just because I am scared of punishment. I feel like I am not sincere enough to myself and to Allah. Is believing in a god because you fear his punishment really belief? I honestly do not have the answer to this question and it is making me uneasy.

I was born in an arabian gulf country to the most wonderful parents I could ask for. They were both shia so they taught me the shia way of practicing Islam. They taught me the importance of praying and how to do it. They taught me the importance of fasting ramadan and they made sure I did it. I could go on and on, but the point I'm trying to make is that I was raised in a wonderful household that adhered to islamic practices. All was well until I encountered some personal issues during my teenage years. These issues have had an influence on my decisions but I don't think mentioning what exactly these issues is relevant to this story. Despite these issues, I still believed in Islam. Although, I think this was the start of me questioning things.

I've read the Quran fully many times as my parents emphasized the importance of that. However, I would read it without paying much attention to what exactly is being witten. I decided I needed to give the Quran a more thorough reading instead of reading it for the sake of reading it. That's when I noticed some things that I found confusing. Why in some Ayats Allah is the most merciful but also in some Ayats he will give eternal punishment to nonbelievers? How can the most vile, sinful, disgusting humans escape eternal punishment just by believing in Islam? What about the peaceful monks that remain chaste and never commit any of the earthly sins described in Islam? I must be misunderstanding something. Would I really be sitting in heaven looking down on people in hell laughing at them and not giving them any pity? I knew that's not me. If I was in hell, would my parents look down at me from hell and laugh at me? I knew that's not them. I must have misunderstood something. Why does god punish people simply for being born into a nonmuslim family? It is extremely rare for people to die with a different religion than the one they were born into.

Following this was a period of my life full of depression and and existential crisis. Slowly, I started to not care. I would still pray daily but instead of doing them ASAP, I would delay them. Following personal traumatic events I just stopped caring about religion. It was not a decision I made like "Ok I'm leaving Islam now" but it was a more gradual process and I can't really pinpoint when it specifically happened. I still believed in a god, but that's all I knew for sure. I still fasted during ramadan as I enjoyed the ramadan vibes with my family. This lasted for around 3 years until just recently I decided to partake in Muharram events in person (First time since covid) because my parents wanted me to and I knew it would make them happy. That's when I realized that I missed the sense of belonging to my community. I still respected Imam Hussain's sacrifice. This is what made me decide to look at Islam in a different light.

So here I am now. There are still many aspects in Islam that I find confusing. I still plan on following the way orthodox twelver shias practice when it comes to the obligatory thing such as Hajj, daily prayers, and ramadan. However, I think if I adhere to the same way of thinking I grew up on I think I'll lose my faith again. I don't think anyone can be 100% certain that the religion they believe in is the one true religion. I've heard arguments from many "debaters" and it all amounts to blind faith and what you are comfortable with. The concept of "groupthink" comes to mind here. If I was born in a christian family, I'd probably be a christian. If I was born in a jewish family, I'd probably be Jewish right now. I don't see the problem in having blind faith. Isn't blind faith that can't be explained logically the highest level of faith?

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Salamu Alaikum. I’m not wise or experienced enough to give advice but I’ve been reading your posts and wanted to show my respect for your struggle. I think you’re a sincere person who wants to set things right. I wish the best for you and encourage you to persevere in your efforts. 

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On 8/17/2022 at 12:45 PM, Guest Share said:

Salamu Alaikum. I’m not wise or experienced enough to give advice but I’ve been reading your posts and wanted to show my respect for your struggle. I think you’re a sincere person who wants to set things right. I wish the best for you and encourage you to persevere in your efforts. 

Wa Alaikum As Salam

Thank you so much for your nice comment. My main goal of posting this was to write down my feelings since I can't really discuss this openly with my family and friends. It's like a type of catharsis.

I wish the best for you as well.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/16/2022 at 4:03 PM, SeekingRepentance said:

That's when I noticed some things that I found confusing. Why in some Ayats Allah is the most merciful but also in some Ayats he will give eternal punishment to nonbelievers? How can the most vile, sinful, disgusting humans escape eternal punishment just by believing in Islam? What about the peaceful monks that remain chaste and never commit any of the earthly sins described in Islam? I must be misunderstanding something. Would I really be sitting in heaven looking down on people in hell laughing at them and not giving them any pity? I knew that's not me. If I was in hell, would my parents look down at me from hell and laugh at me? I knew that's not them. I must have misunderstood something. Why does god punish people simply for being born into a nonmuslim family? It is extremely rare for people to die with a different religion than the one they were born into.

 

The mercy of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) encompasses all things, it even encompasses the nonbelievers. The non believers are given life by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), they are given Rizq(sustenance), family, some are given great wealth, intelligence, etc. The non believers are also given ayat (signs) by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) constantly, that they are on the wrong path and should turn to the source of all things (i.e. Allah) and to stop believing and worshipping other than Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). There are many examples I could give you of non believers receiving signs from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and ignoring them or turning away from them, but I think you probably can think of enough examples in your own life to get the point. If not, I can post some. 

Because Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given us free will (unlike most of the creation who doesn't have it), we choose our own path, either to heaven or hell. It says in the Holy Quran 

Truly, We did offer al-amaanah to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they declined to bear it and were afraid of it . But man bore it. Verily, he was unjust (to himself) and ignorant (of its results) [al-Ahzaab 33:72]”.

Al Amaanah is free will. The ability to choose your own eternal destination based on your actions and intentions that and the foundation of actions. The heavens and the earth and the mountains were afraid of it, because they knew that if they chose wrong, it would lead to their own destruction. 

So the unbelievers are constantly receiving signs from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). They reject them over and over again. This constant rejection is them making their choice, and choosing their path. If they reject the mercy of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), then they get the consequence of that, which is Hell. Hell is the absence of the mercy of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), or some say the diminishing of it to a large degree. Heaven is the mercy of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), in it's pure form. So by not rejecting the signs of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), the believers choose heaven and the unbelievers choose Hell, as a result of their own free will. 

If someone is say a murderer or a rapist, and then after their crime, they repent and turn to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), then if they stay on that course, they will eventually be in heaven. There are some crimes, like the murdering of a mumin/a intentionally, that carry with them a certain punishment, regardless of whether the person repents or not. There are other crimes which carry consequences in this life, and the person will be punished in this life, but in the next life they will not be punished. An example is a rapist who repents and then is caught and goes to prison for many years. The prison sentence is the punishment to purge that person of the sin, so that in the next life they will be on the path to heaven. 

A 'peaceful monk' who never did any major or minor crime in his life, but rejects the signs of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) will not go to heaven. It says in the Holy Quran 'Al Aqebatul mutaqeen', i.e. the ultimate end  is only for those who have taqwa, i.e. they are respectful of the signs of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Rejecting the signs of God is not respectful to those signs. If a monk believes in the Trinity, after having knowledge of it, and teaches it to others, even though he knows that this ia concept made up by Paul and others and has nothing to do with the authentic teachings of Esa (Jesus), then he is misleading the people, and he doesn't have taqwa, and this in itself is a big crime that is worthy of hell, even though apparently he is a 'peaceful' person. 

As for your parents looking down and 'laughing' at you in hell, there is nothing in heaven that is disturbing / upsetting, so if this would upset your parents (and it probably would) then it wouldn't happen. What would probably happen (although I don't know this for sure) is that your parents would just forget you existed in the first place. This is just speculation, because noone knows what will happen, but there are other scenarios besides the one you picked that are possible.

This ayat about 'looking up from heaven and laughing at those in hell' is talking about the mumineen laughing at the thalimeen and tagut. Those who oppressed people on a large scale, misguided people on a large scale, and / or set themselves up as an object of worship besides Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), i.e. the taghut. Personally, there are some people which I would like to look down into hell on (that is assuming I make it to heaven, which I'm not assuming).  People like Yazid(la), Shimr(la), Muawiya(la), Saddam, MBS, Netanyahu, Bush, etc. It would give me a great amount of pleasure to see them in hell, and it wouldn't bother me at all. 

Anyway, the fact that you still believe in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and are trying to resolve your doubts and questions about Islam means that you are on the right path, and if you keep going down this path, eventually your questions will be answered to your satisfaction and your issues will be solved, and InShahAllah, you will be in Heaven with your parents so you won't have to worry about that scenario, lol. Salam. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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Thank you for you taking the time to reply to message.

I heard these arguments before, but they were not convincing to me. I really don't want to delve deep into these topics since I think there is more harm than benefit. I'm more or less content and happy with my belief system for now. But I'll give you my thoughts out of respect for your time spent in your message.

Regarding signs, there are many videos online of christians, hindus, and other religious people who called out to their respective gods during their time of need and then they have their prayers answered. Why would Allah answer their prayers and thus affirming their belief in their fake religion? These people would become even more stubborn and reject the true message. And can you really blame them?

Regarding the believing murderer/rapist vs the chaste peaceful nonbeliever monk. I am not sure what you mean by rejecting the message. If people know Islam is true but still reject it, that could only mean that they have some sort of mental illness that needs to be treated instead of being punished for it. It's illogical to disbelieve in a religion when you know that it's true and that you will suffer in eternal hell for not practicing it. These people belong in a mental institute, not hell. People with a sound mind don't "choose" to believe or disbelieve. Even though I currently believe in Allah, I will admit that there's no concrete proof that I can present.

Let's say the rapist/murderer/theif never got caught and was never punished in his life but he sincerely repented and died as a muslim so now he should be destined for eternal heaven. He also cannot confess his sins since that goes against exposing one's sins which is also haram. Does that seem fair to you? Would a peaceful believer be fine in being with heaven with someone who raped/murdered someone they loved? I definitely wouldn't be happy with that. While the peaceful nonbeliever monk who helps his community goes to eternal hell simply for nonbelieving which like I said sometimes you can't help yourself with.

For the sinful believers: my parents told me that Allah will be the judge in the afterlife and take from them and give to the people they wronged, but eventually they will still be destined for eternal heaven.

 

5 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

What would probably happen (although I don't know this for sure) is that your parents would just forget you existed in the first place. This is just speculation, because noone knows what will happen, but there are other scenarios besides the one you picked that are possible.

I think I misquoted the ayat so astaghfur allah and I apologize.

I know you're just speculating so excuse me for picking your brains a little :). Could you really say that they're the same people if that's the case? I'm gonna get very philosophical so bear with me lol. Seeing anyone being tortured, even the most evil people, is horrific to me. If I lose that aspect of my self, then could I really say that I'm the same person? In video game terms, it seems like we'd all be NPCs losing most of the things that make us who we are. Again, also back to previous point of being in heaven with someone who committed vile things against you or your loved ones.

 

5 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

People like Yazid(la), Shimr(la), Muawiya(la), Saddam, MBS, Netanyahu, Bush, etc. It would give me a great amount of pleasure to see them in hell, and it wouldn't bother me at all.

What if these people sincerely repented to allah and regretted their actions and died as true believers? I actually asked this question to my parents and they told me that Yazid was prevented from repenting because Allah distracted him with earthly pleasures. I don't think there's any proof for this claim they told me however haha but my thought after hearing that was "Isn't that going against free will if Allah does not want a specific group of people to not repent?"

I'm not asking for answers btw. I think my response would be  "Allah A'lam" (Allah knows best). These are mostly rhetorical questions and I don't know how to answer them myself. And I apologize if I don't post anymore after this since I'd like to move on from this point in my life and focus on the future rather than dwell on things I've been thinking about for the past 3 years.

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1 hour ago, SeekingRepentance said:

Thank you for you taking the time to reply to message.

I heard these arguments before, but they were not convincing to me. I really don't want to delve deep into these topics since I think there is more harm than benefit. I'm more or less content and happy with my belief system for now. But I'll give you my thoughts out of respect for your time spent in your message.

Regarding signs, there are many videos online of christians, hindus, and other religious people who called out to their respective gods during their time of need and then they have their prayers answered. Why would Allah answer their prayers and thus affirming their belief in their fake religion? These people would become even more stubborn and reject the true message. And can you really blame them?

 

Regarding signs, I can probably talk about Christians more than Hindus because I was raised in the Christian Church and accepted Islam in my early 20s. I have talked about this here before but not sure if you knew.

The only main difference between Islam and Chrstianity is the concept of the Trinity, there are other small differences but this is the main one. It is the idea of the Triune god, i.e. god is divided into three parts, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Without this idea, Islam and Christianity would basically be the same religion. That's why it says in the Quran, 'You will find the closest to you (the Muslims) are the Christians'. 

I didn't have any major doubts about Christianity when I was a kid, like between say 5 and 13, because at that point when I went to Church they would talk about being kind to people, telling the truth, loving God, obeying parents, etc, things that all religions teach. It was only when I did my Confirmation classes that I started having doubts. These are classes at the church that you have to take in order to become a member of the Church. They teach about Christian theology, and part of that is the Trinity. It is not really a coincidence that this is around the age (13 to 17) that many Christians leave and stop attending Church, and never come back. Some come back when they have their own kids, because they want their kids to know something about religion. 

Anyway, when I was in the class and we went over the section about the Trinity, the pastor gave the standard analogies that most Christians have heard (it's like a pizza with three slices, its like water that can also be ice and water vapor, etc), but I had alot of questions. I asked the pastor 'How can you compare God to a pizza or to water, God is infinite, all knowing, eternal, etc, so the analogy doesn't make sense'. Also I asked other questions like 'If Jesus died on the cross that means God died, and if God died, then who was taking care of the universe in that time', etc. I had many questions, my pastor couldn't answer them, and finally he just said 'Look, noone really understands this, either you believe it or you don't. I told him I didn't, then walked out of the church'. 

So this is what I am talking about, signs or ayat. Most Christians know that the Trinity is some kind of made up concept that they don't understand, but if it is the basis of the Christian faith, as the theology says, then they should ask themselves why would God make something the criteria for heaven or hell that we, human beings, have no way of understanding or dealing with. That's not just. So either you ignore it, or believe in an unjust God. Most Christians ignore it, and ignore Christian theology completely and just live their lives. They stay as Christians because it is convenient for them, not because they believe it is the truth. At the same time, God put this question regarding the Trinity in their mind in order to lead them to the truth. It is a sign, which is ignored. 

I'm sure there are other things in Hinduism, but I wasn't raised as a Hindu, but one obvious thing to me is that if you believe that God can enter the form of a statue, then that means you believe God is limited, and can be contained. You also believe that God can be dropped, fooled with, etc. At the same time, we have in our fitra (innate nature) the belief in Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), One God with no partners or equals. So you would have to ignore your fitra to believe in what Hinduism teaches. So you are ignoring the ayat or Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

 

 

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1 hour ago, SeekingRepentance said:

Regarding the believing murderer/rapist vs the chaste peaceful nonbeliever monk. I am not sure what you mean by rejecting the message. If people know Islam is true but still reject it, that could only mean that they have some sort of mental illness that needs to be treated instead of being punished for it. It's illogical to disbelieve in a religion when you know that it's true and that you will suffer in eternal hell for not practicing it. These people belong in a mental institute, not hell. People with a sound mind don't "choose" to believe or disbelieve. Even though I currently believe in Allah, I will admit that there's no concrete proof that I can present.

Let's say the rapist/murderer/theif never got caught and was never punished in his life but he sincerely repented and died as a muslim so now he should be destined for eternal heaven. He also cannot confess his sins since that goes against exposing one's sins which is also haram. Does that seem fair to you? Would a peaceful believer be fine in being with heaven with someone who raped/murdered someone they loved? I definitely wouldn't be happy with that. While the peaceful nonbeliever monk who helps his community goes to eternal hell simply for nonbelieving which like I said sometimes you can't help yourself with.

For the sinful believers: my parents told me that Allah will be the judge in the afterlife and take from them and give to the people they wronged, but eventually they will still be destined for eternal heaven.

 

I am not saying they believe it's true like we believe it's true, i.e. they know about Tauhid, Salat, Hajj, etc. I am saying that they know that what they are currently following is not true and correct, and so they should look for some other way, path. 

When I was a teenager, before I became muslim, I used to drink, party, have girlfriends, etc. I can say this first because we believe that when I reverted to Islam those sins were forgiven and also because I was raised in a typical American, non muslim environment where those things are very common and normal. Even though they are common and normal, if you are doing them you know that they are not right or correct to do. Bad consequences used to happen all the time, I had friends who died while they were driving drunk, I knew girls that went out with the wrong guy and got raped and assaulted, I had friends that overdosed on drugs, all within a short period of time. So I could see all these things happening all around me, and the logical conclusion would be 'OK, so when are one of these things going to happen to me'. Alhamdulillah, they didn't, and I took these things as a sign from God that I am on the wrong path and to look for something else. Most people don't, and they just wait for something bad to happen to them, and then sometimes they wake up but most of the time they don't. This is what I am talking about. 

As for the murder / rapist, like I said these crimes have consequences, both in this life and the next. The severe crimes have consequences, even if someone repents and turns to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Also, it says many times, 'If not for the mercy of Allah and His Grace upon you...'. In other words, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is telling you that you are not better than anyone else, in fact. The reason that you're not a murderer and not a rapist is mostly because of the mercy of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) on you, and maybe to a lesser extent because of the good choices which you made. 

There are people who grow up in circumstances of extreme violence and abuse. People who grow up in these situations (and I have known a few) are not like you and me. Their brain functions different, and they have different triggers, and they mostly think on the animalistic level, i.e. about survival and the moment. They don't have the luxury of 'pondering' over things and they don't assume that they are safe and secure. If not for the grace of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), any one of us could have grown up in that same fashion and circumstances. So if someone has such disadvantages, then they act out on it and do a crime, like what we mentioned, are they then outside of the Mercy of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) ? Absolutely not. They have a path to 'Rajaa' returning to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and once they have completed that path, then yes, they will enter heaven. 

If you have a problem with them being in heaven, then you should consider whether, if your life was slightly different, you might be in the same position as they are, or worse. I try not to judge anyone, because I don't have enough information about them to do that.

Also, you would be happy because before you enter heaven, your soul is made pure so that all these 'rijs', filthy things like hate, jealousy, resentment, etc, are cleansed from your soul. That is what the 'verse of purification' is talking about in the Holy Quran when it says 'We have remove all filth from you, Ahl Al Bayt, and purified you with a thorough purification'. Part of that is the removing of all these negative thoughts and feelings so that they were like the people of Paradise walking on Earth, but because they were on earth, they still had conflicts, had to 'call people out' like Fatima((عليه السلام)) calling out Abu Bakr. In Paradise, we will be pure, but the conflicts won't exist. There is another part to this verse, which is Batin (part of the hidden things). Obviously I wouldn't be able to explain that part of it. 

 

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2 hours ago, SeekingRepentance said:

 

 

What if these people sincerely repented to allah and regretted their actions and died as true believers? I actually asked this question to my parents and they told me that Yazid was prevented from repenting because Allah distracted him with earthly pleasures. I don't think there's any proof for this claim they told me however haha but my thought after hearing that was "Isn't that going against free will if Allah does not want a specific group of people to not repent?"

I'm not asking for answers btw. I think my response would be  "Allah A'lam" (Allah knows best). These are mostly rhetorical questions and I don't know how to answer them myself. And I apologize if I don't post anymore after this since I'd like to move on from this point in my life and focus on the future rather than dwell on things I've been thinking about for the past 3 years.

They didn't repent before they died, so they died as disbelievers and unrepentant. If they did repent, and asked for forgiveness, we have the famous story of Hurr ibn Yazid Al Riyahi which is told every Muharram. He was the one who stopped the Caravan of Imam Hussein((عليه السلام)) and forced him to stop at Karbala. Since you go to majalis, you know what happened. If they repented, their story may have been similar, but they didn't, so they got the consequences. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SeekingRepentance said:

Regarding the believing murderer/rapist vs the chaste peaceful nonbeliever monk

I understand your dilemma. If the prophet says that Ikhlaq was one of the main reasons he was sent to mankind, then how can Allah throw a person with good ikhlaq, into the hell fire because he failed to be exposed to the right belief system.

If you believe Allah is Adl, and believe he is Al Raheem, then you're left in a quandary of opposing ideas.

In my own thoughts, I think we cannot comprehend the vastness of Allah's mercy and how much he tried to get us on the straight path, but we can all acknowledge,  that a pious devout kind person in the one of the tribes of the Amazon ,which remains cut off from all civilization.... cannot really be held responsible for not saying shahada.

I believe ( strictly personal now) that Allah will judge each human according to how much exposure he had to Hadaya. He may give these people credit for not being satanic and criminal,  and showing the right morals and ethics and for not creating fitna and fasaad.

The other issue I have is we have a very very limited knowledge of the day Of Judgement and Aakhiraa. We try to make judgments based on such a limited knowledge.

We know the extremes well based on actions and beliefs,  Janat or Jahanum,

However, the middle ground is not so clear to me.  Why does it have to be a zero sum game. Why do we not give our Creator credit since He gives us so much thru his kindness and mercy  including mushrikeen,  that he will find ways to show that kindness and mercy on youm al qayaama and in the Aakhiraa.

Now I am going to go off on a deep tangent here , but bear with me.

What if is there is a do over algorithm, or chance to get a new life or new circumstances, or just within an artificial simulation.

what if there is alternate multiverse in which some players get more chances or repeat chances, different timelines operate with an infinite number of universes and endings. 

Or alternatively Based on Allah's vast omniscient nature and the ability to transcend time and space, he knows that if a certain person had been exposed to Hadayat,  then he would have been rightly guided and Allah gives him credit for that potential known only to Allah.

These are the way I myself  reconcile such doubts. 

In my life I have met many Christians,  Hindus, and even Jews who have incredible ikhlaq and morals and are the most decent human beings, much much better than some of the brothers from Jazirah tul Arab, the homeland of Islam.

I can't reconcile that they are all sentenced to Jahanum, because of circumstances completely beyond their control, and I choose to believe in Allah's vast Ghafoor ur Raheem nature.

I have an optimistic heart and feel that Creator who is endowed with such love of his creations, that he will punish those who willfully and with conviction and conscious choice , opposed his dictates, but others.....who did not, I belive there will come Celestial succour, mercy and forgiveness

 

 

Edited by Hasani Samnani
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