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In the Name of God بسم الله

Salman Rushdie stabbed

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14 minutes ago, Hasani Samnani said:

Sorry brother I respect your enlightened views most of the time,  but pure savagery is killing a million Iraqi children, killing and making destitute millions of Yemenis, Syrians,  Libyans,  Afganis,  and the lists is truly  endless.  Cluster bombs and mines produced for profit. Or using an Atomic bomb indiscriminately and sentencing generations to radiation poisoning and continuing today with depleted uranium munitions , That's savagery bro.

While everything is relative , but there is something as pure unadulterated evil and something one might find distasteful or disturbing.

Senseless violence is senseless violence is senseless violence. 

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15 minutes ago, Hasani Samnani said:

And just for academic discussion @kadhim, if he had read the book or excerpts and the Fatwa, would he  then be justified ?

No. The fatwa was nonsense political theatre, and among Khomeini’s mistakes, one of the one’s doing the most lasting damage to Islam. 

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, kadhim said:

Leave Allah out of this.

Point taken.

Sorry brother , the Creator who says that leaves don't fall without his permission, is in control of everything. 

Free choice is our prerogative and the resultant actions are on, us.

Everything else is in his hands , from the subatomic and anti matter level, and ilm ghaib levels. We cannot comprehend his power over all things.

27 minutes ago, kadhim said:

fatwa was nonsense political theatre, and among Khomeini’s mistakes

I think you will remember 1988 and 1989, this was the time of taking a poison pill and end the Iran Iraq war.

Iran was rebuilding and re establishing as an Islamic,  petroleum and regional superpower.

This book was a Public Relations product pure and simple, I read it , and in comparison to Midnights children, was a terribly written Piece of work. In fact,  if you compare side by, side , you'll think it was written by an entirely different author.

If you have any doubt about how much the ZioNazis of the UK/US spend on destroying true  Islam, then read Hempher's diary of how Abdul Wahab was fostered and cared for to create an anti Shia movement. Hint Mutah was a big part of creating takfiris.

This conspiracy resulted in the desecration of our Imams Mausoleums,  deaths of thousands in Karbala, Najaf,  and other cities of Iraq and launched a movement which killed Muslims all over and birthed the Takfiri movement.

Imam Khomeini took a principled stand and refused to accept the Luciferian plots against Muslims, this was not a mistake at all.

In fact,  I am of the school that believes the story of the Ayatollah who was not a big fan of Imam Khomeini,  and then had a dream of the Rasoolullah,  all Imams and Imam Mahdi meeting and asking questions and providing guidance to Imam Khomeini, and then said jealous scholar apologized profusely to Imam Khomeini.

Just like I believe that our Hujjah is in direct communication with Ayatollah Sistani  and other Marjae. While not masoom themselves but they're being guided by a Masoom. As was the case with many scholars throughout the 2nd greater occultation.

Edited by Hasani Samnani
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Muslims need to learn the difference between intimidating people and winning their respect. 

Going into murderous rages about artworks makes people think we’re animals with no control over ourselves, and just encourages more such artwork in defiance of that intimidation.

It’s such a simple, obvious, blatantly observable reality, but still, so many seem immune to understanding it. 

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1 hour ago, Traveller_ said:

He was no one, Just another apostate with less than subpar intellect who gained fame through insulting Islam

You have to take into account the Islamophobia industry will seize on anything and everything. Take this story, all it took was for one random dude in Karachi to vent and it becomes a leading headline in a mass market newspaper.

People are saying these things all day everyday on twitter - and it goes without comment.

Given how much hate is directed at Muslims, I think as a group we are very laid back. Of course not as much as Christians, but they are the sort of men who would make tea for their wife's boyfriend.

Screenshot 2022-08-13 at 21.31.41.png

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Jullian Assange and Snowden exposing the crimes of the US government = Criminals, lock them up

Insulting the Jews = Evil and anti-semetic, you should be ashamed of yourself and you are legally prohibited from saying such things

Insulting the Muslims = Freedom of speech. The media will honor you, the government will protect you, the queen will give you title of "Sir," and you will be lauded as an intellectual giant.

But it's on days like these when Allah reminds us who's in charge.

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19 hours ago, Hasani Samnani said:

This is an excellent point, while there was dream sequence from the book, which I read , that was made up, but many of the actual sunni hadith were used to create some of the filth.

It's important that one realizes that degradation of Rasoolullah persona and character assassination was done by his so called Followers and documented extensively,  that's why I have a big problem with ilm al rijaal.

it doesn't ever take into consideration how much and how many people the Ummayad and Abbasid regimes paid off to write such filth. 

 

21 hours ago, -Rejector- said:

I hate Salman Rushdie with a burning passion. I couldn't be happier that this happened.

However, I do think that it wasn't ideal. He should have been executed properly after being put on trial or something. 

I don't know why Ayatollah Khomeini (may Allah bless his soul) issued the fatwa on killing him. The Iranian government has since retracted this fatwa.

Another thing which needs to be considered is that Salman Rushdie was taking things from actual hadiths. He wasn't just making it up - he was looking through Wahhabi hadiths and he just put them in a book. It's nothing new that the Wahhabis didn't believe in before.

This is why we need Quran AND Ahlulbayt (a).

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows best.

Just found out Ibn Taymiyyah upheld the Gharaniq incident as historically valid:

And so did the early Sunni seerah scholars:

Boy, some things never change.
The character-assassination ammo material  like the Prophet (S) undressing in public, wanting to committ suicide, cuddling with Khadija (sa) while Jibril (عليه السلام) was present, prowling gardens and groves for women, reported in the 'Sihah' (na'udubillah, a thousand times astaghfirullah) was already top-notch filth, but this is really a new low.

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12 hours ago, kadhim said:

Muslims need to learn the difference between intimidating people and winning their respect. 

Going into murderous rages about artworks makes people think we’re animals with no control over ourselves, and just encourages more such artwork in defiance of that intimidation.

It’s such a simple, obvious, blatantly observable reality, but still, so many seem immune to understanding it. 

Salam , You must blame Wahabists & Salafists for doing babaric actions based on their wrong judgment but on the other hand you have blamed Imam Khomeini (رضي الله عنه) for giving a true Fatwa which he has not promoted violence nevertheless he ordred killing him & publishers of the book  which he only has given a true Fatwa based on Islamic principles which current stabbing of Rushdie is a bit fisshy because security of that place has been zero or even lower than zero although that everyone  knew that Rushdie will be there  also MSM immediately has called stabber as fan or sympathizer  of Hizbullah & Iran due to his Lebanese origin without having enough evidences which naive people even Muslims will point to Iran & Hizbullah as supporters of terrorism , also it's one of Shaitan's tricks that corrupts a true deed likewise zionists plan for turning self sacrifice of muslim wariors against their enemies in warzone  into suicide bombing between civilians & innocent people in public places likewise Takfiri suicidal explosions in shia Mosques & Hussaynias by Wahabists which it seems that even now you can't seperate Wahabists who judge wrongly  based on their self interpretation from people who defend from their religion & sovereignty based on wise Fatwas of Marjas. 

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14 hours ago, kadhim said:

No. The fatwa was nonsense political theatre, and among Khomeini’s mistakes, one of the one’s doing the most lasting damage to Islam. 

 

The issue of Salman Rushdie is a special issue, what he did is definitely considered apostasy because he said the words that he cannot say that he was under pressure or that he did it reluctantly, but all the things he wrote against Islam in the satanic book has been due to  full of free will and he never regretted for what he did, but he also made it public. Sometimes a person commits a major sin but does not make that sin public. In this case, no jurist will come to issue a ruling on such a person. Salman Rushdie made his apostasy public, he didn't just make it public, but he promoted his disbelief, on this basis, he is an enemy of Islam, the Quran and the Holy Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)).

Even Salman Rushdie's Moharebeh was not only that he denied an issue in Islamic rules or did not believe in principles, what he did, the enemies of Islam could not do. In fact, he insulted Islam based on unreliable documents and reflected this insult in human society and said that the Muslim Quran is a mixture of real verses and satanic verses and is not purely divine verses, therefore the Muslim Quran cannot be trusted. This comment has been supported by the enemies of Islam.

Based on this, Salman Rushdie was not an ordinary apostate, and Imam Khomeini (رضي الله عنه) issued about him an order of apostasy and did not limit himself to Fatwa. In addition to publicizing his blasphemy, he [Rushdie] promoted it to the world in an organized manner. Salman Rushdie's action was calculated to weaken Muslim beliefs and make the world and humanity suspicious of Islam. Usually, the Ruler of Sharia issues rulings in exceptional cases, because government rulings are not a ruling that the legal guardian issues every day and every year, but this is done in exceptional and necessary cases. Imam Khomeini, as an authority, issued a ruling only once during his blessed life, and that was about Salman Rushdie, a combatant and apostate, and this gives the importance of this ruling. The Imam issued this historical ruling so that this case will not be repeated.

Therefore, there should be no negligence in the implementation of Islamic rules and because the historical ruling of the Imam was a cultural war between Islam and the enemies of Islam, Islamic societies and those in charge should not be indifferent to its implementation.

Islam is a religion of rules and regulations and has forged special rules and regulations for everything. At the same time, it is a religion of kindness and all its jurisprudence and moral teachings are based on kindness and mercy, that is why the first words of the Almighty in the Holy Quran In upmost of , kindness starts with Bismillah, Rahman, Raheem, but if someone violates Islam in the face of this love and kindness, the religion takes a very firm stand against this violation and never fails so that no one dares to violate the foundations of Islam.

https://www.mashreghnews.ir/news/1407565/چرا-امام-خمینی-ره-حکم-به-اعدام-سلمان-رشدی-داد

https://www.mehrnews.com/news/5540565/چرا-امام-خمینی-حکم-به-اعدام-سلمان-رشدی-داد

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Hazrat Imam (رضي الله عنه) announced Salman Rushdie's Mahdur al-Dam in his announcement and informed about the ruling of the Shari'a case. According to jurisprudence, it is obligatory to kill someone who insults the Holy Prophet. The execution of his murder does not require the permission of the Imam and the Islamic government. Insulting other divine prophets also has the same ruling.[18] Salman Rushdie is considered an apostate in addition to Sabb al-Nabi, because of the necessary denial of religion.

 

Quote

Hazrat Imam (رضي الله عنه) expressed his Shariah ruling and fatwa. He was definitely not in the position of judgment; Because he has  set his audience as "Muslims all over the world". But if, as the leader of the Islamic government of Iran and in the capacity of a judge, he was to issue a death sentence, instead of assigning Muslims all over the world to follow his orders,then he  would assign it to the judiciary or the executive branch of Iran. As a Marja taqlid authority and mufti, he took this action in order to defend the sanctity of Islam and presented his jurisprudential and scientific opinion to the world. The Imam considers the actions of the author of the Satanic Verses book to be "against Islam, the Prophet, and the Qur'an" and as a Muslim, since defending the privacy of Islam is obligatory for every Muslim,[20] Salman Rushdie was considered an apostate and deserving of punishment.

If Hazrat Imam (رضي الله عنه) had ordered the execution of Salman Rushdie based on the penal laws of Iran or the principles governing international criminal law and as the head of the Islamic government of Iran, it would not have been justified from a legal point of view. Because basically, the aforementioned action is not considered as an example of the application of the principle of real jurisdiction in Iran's criminal laws (Article 5 of the Islamic Penal Code), but now that he, as a mufti, announces his Sharia fatwa and strong jurisprudential documents and proofs confirm his opinion. It does not find any conflict with the principles governing international criminal law.

The lack of familiarity of the westerners with the jurisprudential establishment of "Fatwa" prevents them from understanding this issue in a simple way, and for this reason, they do not accept his  performance and analyze the issue solely from their point of view, relying on the principles governing customary international punishment. .

As a result, his performance is considered outside of the legal jurisdiction of the Iranian government by them. Therefore, if the fatwa of Imam (رضي الله عنه) and the killing of Salman Rushdie are implemented, they would said act will be considered a terrorist act, and the government of Iran will be considered the cause of it.

https://www.jamaran.news/بخش-فقه-حقوق-10/1563355-تحلیل-حقوقی-فتوای-امام-خمینی-در-مورد-سلمان-رشدی

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A few days later, on the 29th of Bahman, Imam Khomeini's office published a notice addressed to the Muslims of Iran and the world in this regard, denying the rumors about the pardon of Salman Rushdie after repentance, and according to the sayong of Imam verifies  his  killing as Wajibs ( considers it obligatory) You can read the text of this notice below:
In the name of his excellence
 [Foreign colonial media groups falsely attribute to the authorities of the Islamic Republic of Iran that if the author of the book Ayat Shaitani repents, the death sentence will be canceled for him. Imam Khomeini - Madd Zullah - said:]
This issue is denied one hundred percent. If Salman Rushdie repents and becomes an ascetic of time, it is obligatory on every Muslim to use all his life and wealth to bring him to death.
 [Hazrat Imam added:]
If a non-Muslim is informed of his location and has the power to execute him faster than other Muslims, it is obligatory on the Muslims to pay him whatever he wants in return for this act as a gift or reward of his action.
 Defending the Prophet of Islam and religious values is  Imam Khomeini's last confrontation with the West
After that Iran-Iraq war ended, Western political leaders launched a new offensive against revolutionary Islam. In previous years, during Iran's defense and during the confrontation with Lebanon's Hezbollah, the Islamic movement of Palestine and the Islamic Jihad of Afghanistan, and the death of Anwarsadat by the Egyptian Muslim revolutionaries (14/7/1360), they realized that the growing Islamic movement cannot be dfeated by gun & through army power so  The new front was a psychological, cultural and ideological war front. The creation of war between Shiites and Sunnis had already lost its color due to the vigilance of Imam Khomeini and the officials of the Islamic system. They should have attacked the roots and main drivers of this movement, i.e. the ideological foundations and holy things that loved by them has caused the unity of goals and methods of the recent Islamic movement. The story of compiling and publishing the vulgar book Satanic Verses written by Salman Rushdie and the official support of Western governments for it was the beginning of the season of cultural invasion. If the Islamic society had not resisted against the insults of this book to the great prophet of Islam, the first embankment would have been easily conquered, and after that, the religious foundations and sacred things that caused the belief in the supernatural and spiritual values in the Islamic societ, would be attacked with all kinds of methods. The identity of religious thought and the unifying identity of the Islamic Ummah are made up of these holy things, and it is by questioning them that the Islamic world and Islamic movements are de-identified from within and disarmed against the onslaught of Western culture and ideology.
Considering the above reasons and facts, on 25/11/1367, in addition to a few short lines, Imam Khomeini ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) started another revolution by issuing a decree of apostasy and execution of Salman Rushdie and the publishers who were aware of the blasphemous content of this book. The ranks of Muslims, regardless of their religions, languages and countries, stood united against the West. The consequences of this incident made the existence of the Islamic society as a single nation visible and showed that Muslims can play a decisive role in the future of the world as the pioneers of the revival of religious values when they are properly led, despite internal differences and side differences. take over Also, the issuance of this ruling destroyed the misconception of the Westerners that Iran has given up its Islamic revolutionary goals by accepting the resolution.

http://www.imam-khomeini.ir/fa/C207_44691/_فتوای_قتل_سلمان_رشدی،_نویسنده_کتاب_کفرآمیز_آیات_شیطانی

Original Fatwa in Persian/Farsi

http://www.imam-khomeini.ir/fa/n14619/سرویس_های_اطلاع_رسانی/نگاه_روز/سالروز_صدور_حکم_ارتداد_سلمان_رشدی

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Why execution? Is it not possible to give a scientific answer?

But in the meantime, the question may be raised, why was the death sentence issued to Salman Rushdie instead of a scientific answer? In response, it should be said: Salman Rushdie's action was not a theoretical  problem and a theoretical doubt that we want to answer through theoretical arguments and debates, rather, by writing this book, he practically and deliberately dared to enter the field of insulting to the Prophet of Islam and made himself one of the examples of "Sab al-Nabi"«سابّ‌النبی».

According to Shia jurisprudence and the fatwa of all authorities, the sentence insulting the Prophet of Islam is "death".

If he had expressed these shortcomings and flaws towards the Qur'an and the Prophet in writing his book, he would certainly not have faced such a heavy reaction, even though many non-Muslim critics have adopted such a method.

But Salman Rushdie is not in the position of stating  problems and expressing doubts, rather he created this work with the intention of insulting and mocking Islam and Prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)).

https://www.farsnews.ir/news/14010522000054/چرا-سلمان-رشدی-به-جای-پاسخ-علمی-حکم-اعدام-گرفت

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Posted (edited)

Translation:- The day Salman Rushdi wrote the satanic verse, if some Muslims (he said something but I can’t hear it, ), if a Muslim carried out the fatwa of Imam khomenei to Murtad Salman Rushdi, no one would have ever dared to insult the prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)), not in denmark, (mentioned another country; can’t hear it ) or France. 

 

old video of sayid nasrallah (2005/2006) it  was recorded when a danish magazine or newspaper published a cartoonish caricature of prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم))

Edited by Diaz
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On 8/13/2022 at 1:40 PM, kadhim said:

Muslims need to learn the difference between intimidating people and winning their respect. 

Going into murderous rages about artworks makes people think we’re animals with no control over ourselves, and just encourages more such artwork in defiance of that intimidation.

It’s such a simple, obvious, blatantly observable reality, but still, so many seem immune to understanding it. 

I agree with you for sure. This will only give more motivation to those bigots online and offline who preach freedom of speech and use that to insult Islam even further. Just look at the disrespect of particular online personalities, doing what they do under the banner of freedom of speech. This only justifies their efforts in provoking the emotional amongst us. Something many of us are either ignoring or just blind to.

I'm just a layman but I will never understand why Ayatollah Khomeini issued the fatwa when he did. However that is between himself and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). Personally, I wished he had opened a dialogue with the man and given him that opportunity at the least.  All I've gathered from this is that it allowed Salman Rushdie over the years to become a figure of resistance against the "barbaric" Islam, and seemed to have made him more of a role model in the Western world and the world of those who insult Islam. 

I see this as no different than the Charlie Hebdo murders and any other similar incidents. Lets not forget how the rest of the world stood in solidarity with the actions of the cartoonists, leading some to republish those exact images which caused offense to the Muslim world. I'm still surprised this has happened so many years later, and as other have said, after the whole incident was more or less forgotten, however speculation is just speculation.

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Posted (edited)

Lebanese journalist Dima Sadek received death threats because she posted a pic of Imam khomenei and general qassem solaiman, saying “the satanic verse”, according to her, the campaign is launched by the son of syed nasrallah, Jawad nasrallah.

 

https://twitter.com/DimaSadek/status/1558526738522677249?s=20&t=stzPPSCcm4B9BjAAFySkGw

Edited by Diaz
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6 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

but on the other hand you have blamed Imam Khomeini (رضي الله عنه) for giving a true Fatwa which he has not promoted violence nevertheless he ordred killing him & publishers of the book

I think you need to look up the meaning of the word “killing.”

By the way. While you’re at it, maybe you could look up how punctuation works.

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This 'literature' was printed and distributed en masse all over the Muslim world and it was publicized everywhere. This was done deliberately to incite the Muslim masses

/\ This.

look at the timeline of the book from publication to fatwa. It's a very short timeline, but look at what happened.

Rushdie was interviewed in India to promote the book *before it got published*. It faced Muslim condemnation and requests for a ban. A month afterwards It won the Whitbread Prize. A few days before the fatwa protestors in Pakistan were gunned down. Six died. 

then came the fatwa.

all you have to ask is: how many Muslims know who won the Whitbread Prize this year? Last year? In the last 10-20 years?

how quickly did an insulting book spread into Muslim consciousness and win a prize? 

Does giving this person a knighthood from the Queen and other honours not have any political meaning?

read this in the context of the 1980s Islamic revival in the Muslim world. Read this in the context of the Israel-Palestine conflict. Read this in the context of the "war on terror" which was really a war on Muslim countries that needed to be portrayed as barbaric. 

Art? Freedom of speech? We're not fooled. We've lived long enough and seen too much from Western media control of narratives in the last few decades to be fooled by words like this.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Abu Hadi said:

This was done deliberately to incite the Muslim masses and provoke a reaction which could then be depicted in the Western Media in order to slander Muslims, Islam, and the Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h).

Let’s, for the sake of argument, take that claim at face value. So taking that as a given, whose fault is it when our community mindlessly follows the script? 

A Muslim who is worth the name is someone who takes responsibility for regulating his own actions and responses. I don’t see any acknowledgement of that basic principle in anything any of you are saying. 

Edited by kadhim
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6 hours ago, Diaz said:

Translation:- The day Salman Rushdi wrote the satanic verse, if some Muslims (he said something but I can’t hear it, ), if a Muslim carried out the fatwa of Imam khomenei to Murtad Salman Rushdi, no one would have ever dared to insult the prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)), not in denmark, (mentioned another country; can’t hear it ) or France. 

 

old video of sayid nasrallah (2005/2006) it  was recorded when a danish magazine or newspaper published a cartoonish caricature of prophet Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم))

It’s so strange the split in perception on this. So many have this perception—and I’ll give the Sayyed a bit of a pass for being biased growing up in a rough neighborhood of the world—that unless you’re vicious in response to any perceived slights, people will mess with you.

Whereas it’s equally obvious to the rest of us that ironically the truth is much the opposite. The viciousness of the response prompts people to mess with you. Khomeini’s fatwa was a factor in opening the door to events in France and Denmark later on. 

We need as a community to learn this lesson that in the 21st century you can’t intimidate people into respecting your faith. Every effort to do this has the opposite effect and makes the problem worse. 

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2 hours ago, kadhim said:

We need as a community to learn this lesson that in the 21st century you can’t intimidate people into respecting your faith. Every effort to do this has the opposite effect and makes the problem worse. 

I believe your conflating the Fatwa with intimidation. Please read the Fatwa again, especially In the Arabic form, there is no attempt at intimidation or even implicitly implied intimidation.

The other point is do we really want to push people into respecting our faith as 

brother  @Mahdavist has shown even slightly head rattled martial artists acknowledge and respect Islam for its principled stands. 

People who understand the tenets of the deen,  especially our Christian brother swho revert ,.... are drawn like moths to a flame .

Because unlike their own faiths,  Islam doesn't bend or waver in light of political or societal pressures. No Vatican 2 here and no synodal acceptance of Gender fluidity,  while cases are allowed for true Hermaphrodites, the changing back and forth based on whim is not allowed. Iran has one the most experienced surgical doctors and staff in gender reassignment,  but there must medical evidence for such surgeries.

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On 8/14/2022 at 3:09 PM, Hasani Samnani said:

I believe your conflating the Fatwa with intimidation. Please read the Fatwa again, especially In the Arabic form, there is no attempt at intimidation or even implicitly implied intimidation.

Yeah dude. A fatwa inviting vigilante murder on someone for writing a book is not intimidation.

“Will they not reflect?”

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, kadhim said:

Yeah dude. A fatwa inviting vigilante murder on someone for writing a book is not intimidation.

“Will they not reflect?”

 

Brother that's your interpretation, and your entitled to it,  but doesn't make it true, most of us would argue that was a marjae using his shia world respected knowledge and principle to make a fatwa, they don't make fatwas based on political expediency they're extreme careful to use proper Sharia justification based on Quranic and AhlulBayt derived knowledge and principle.

Your making one our most respected Irfaani maraja the equivalent of an EU Or North American politician.

That's also your right, but we don't have to agree with it, even though you're a well respected longstanding member of this community.

Let me ask you,  do you believe our marajae are in direct or indirect communications with our  Imam e Zamana.

Do you consider revenge on the killers from Karbala...vigilantism, since it was not state sanctioned actions. 

And Vigilantism is by definition not state sanctioned,  so will have to use a different term.

 

Edited by Hasani Samnani
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10 minutes ago, Hasani Samnani said:

Let me ask you,  do you believe our marajae are in direct or indirect communications with our  Imam e Zamana.

No.

11 minutes ago, Hasani Samnani said:

Do you consider revenge on the killers from Karbala...vigilantism, since it was not state sanctioned actions. 

From a technical sharii perspective, it pretty clearly was. We all love the story of Mukhtar as the original Islamic Tarantino revenge porn movie hero, but, technically speaking, no, in Islam, you’re not allowed to just go outside the law and slaughter people like that. 

15 minutes ago, Hasani Samnani said:

And Vigilantism is by definition not state sanctioned,  so will have to use a different term.

Contrary to how Khomeini may have liked to conceptualize it, he was not in fact the de facto leader of all the other countries of the world. 

And yes, contrary to what you’re saying,  a political leader is certainly capable of inviting people to vigilantism. Vigilantism is simply violence that takes place by average people outside of any usual chains of judicial authority. 

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5 minutes ago, kadhim said:

usual chains of judicial authority

Uhh bro he was a judicial authority both from Hawza and Sharia perspective, and also a leader on the world stage of his nation and via valiyat e faqeeh, of the Shia ummah who accept that controversial stance.

7 minutes ago, kadhim said:
27 minutes ago, Hasani Samnani said:

Let me ask you,  do you believe our marajae are in direct or indirect communications with our  Imam e Zamana.

No.

We are oceans apart brother and can agree to disagree. I think deeper spiritual aspects of Imam e Zamana and his well documented guidance to multiple scholars throught his greater occultation is accepted by all divisions within Shia ithna asheri. But again I respect your principles and beliefs.

10 minutes ago, kadhim said:

Mukhtar as the original Islamic Tarantino revenge porn movie hero

Tarantino reference is brilliant :respect:

12 minutes ago, kadhim said:

you’re not allowed to just go outside the law and slaughter people like that. 

Under a zalim govt that denies your  slaughter of innocent Family members ,  you can't be saying the lex talonis is negated by virtue of who is in power?

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, It's me hello said:

I'm sure you guys have won the hearts of non-Muslims by endorsing the stabbing of someone who was merely saying words. Great stuff guys. You are doing islam a great service in the world by supporting vigilante stabbings. Keep up the good work.

As I stated above the action while distasteful to posh societal norms, and really not the right way to get justice and the fatwa was withdrawn...does not negate the fact that Rushdie's actions towards Rasoolullah were quite reprehensible.

Have you read the  book even , have you read the prurient and pornographic details.

Even American law does not allow absolute freedom of speech. Fire crowded theater....you cannot put entire community in danger. 

You're not allowed to degrade anyone's holy figures,  not even polytheists.

Bro your DP is a Hezbullah flag, as per modern society they're the sin qua non for extra judicial killings and vigilante militiasa and Killing people for words, a little cognitive dissonance maybe brother. Go say something against Hasan Nasrullah at a Hezbullah rally or in a Hezbollah neighborhood , you will see the effect of "merely saying words "

 

But I love those guys,  since they kick Israeli...by land , sea and air.

A little ironic...don't ya think... Alanis.M.

We forgive this mild hypocrisy since you niyah is noble. 

May Allah reward your support for freedom fighters and protectors of innocent women and children and opposition to oppression.

 

 

 

Edited by Hasani Samnani
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31 minutes ago, kadhim said:

you’re not allowed to just go outside the law and slaughter people

when the killer of Hazrat Ali Asghar Was killed, it made the Imam , the accepted Hujjah of Allah at the time, smile.

Looks like it was sanctioned judicial killing ....no?

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Posted (edited)

I don't understand these killing fatwas in the time of occulation where putting yourself in harm position is not allowed, so how can you execute such a thing when most of these people live outside of Islamic countries?

From iqraonline.net

  1. The punishment for someone who curses the Prophet, Hazrat Zahrā or any of the Imams. From a jurisprudential perspective, the life of such a person is considered to not have any sanctity and is permissible to be killed. However, what is the ruling during the time of truce [and how should we implement this]? Sāhib al-Jawāhir here mentions that if you see someone cursing the Ahl al-Bayt, since we are in a time of truce it is not appropriate to put yourself in harm [by trying to kill them and carry out the punishment].11
Edited by Abu Nur
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Hasani Samnani said:

Uhh bro he was a judicial authority both from Hawza and Sharia perspective, and also a leader on the world stage of his nation and via valiyat e faqeeh, of the Shia ummah who accept that controversial stance.

What the … ? Oof…

Which doesn’t give him any jurisdiction to call out hits in the UK or wherever else in the world outside of Iran. 

3 hours ago, Hasani Samnani said:

We are oceans apart brother and can agree to disagree. I think deeper spiritual aspects of Imam e Zamana and his well documented guidance to multiple scholars throught his greater occultation is accepted by all divisions within Shia ithna asheri. But again I respect your principles and beliefs.

Shrugs. I believe in the ghaybah al kubrah. 

Look. He’s out there in the world. He can meet with anyone he likes, talk to anyone he likes. All of that is possible. It is possible that sometimes this has included maraja

But the generalized a priori assumption that the Imam has his hand on the hand of the marjaiyyah, invoked as you have invoked it here as some sort of generalized shield over the maraja from criticism for specific statements is dangerously wrong thinking unsupported by evidence. 

2 hours ago, Hasani Samnani said:

when the killer of Hazrat Ali Asghar Was killed, it made the Imam , the accepted Hujjah of Allah at the time, smile.

Looks like it was sanctioned judicial killing ....no

I would say that’s flawed reasoning. 

Look. There is what a person can condone and instruct toward on the basis of consistent respect for principle.

And there are the things that you can’t condone, but your heart cannot feel angry about on knowing they have been done. 

Edited by kadhim
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