Jump to content
In the Name of God بسم الله

Why didn't Sheikh al-Kulayni directly narrate from Imam Mehdi (AS)?

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

:bismillah:

:salam:

Sheikh al-Kulayni (250-329) lived during minor occultation of Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام). He could have directly narrated ahadith from Imam (عليه السلام) through his (عليه السلام) deputies making shorter reliable asnaad. Why did he took pains to meet narrators who could narrate ahadith of Imam Ja'far (عليه السلام) through longer asnaad (which in many cases are unreliable)?

Had he consulted the Imam of time (عليه السلام), at least shia community would have a book that would have been near to 100% authentic.

Edited by The Alchemist
typo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)

Do you just make up ideas in your mind instead of actually reading history and understand who was Kulayni and what was going on during his time and how was his life and the situation he lived in? Do you understand what Hadith even are? And what does near 100% authentic even mean. Hadith are either authentic or unauthentic, doesnt matter if it is 1 narrator or 1000. It is called human trustworthiness and accountability. In fact if more people heard something it proves it is MORE reliable because there is more than one confirmation. HENCE in Islam you need MORE THAN 1 witness.

Even if someone was literally next to the prophet, if they had bad memory they could forget or say something not fully correctly it is only human. Literally thousands of COMPANIONS of the prophet did not correctly portray the prophets words or misunderstood or forgot and that was DURING the prophets time...

Instead of using all this free time to make up random scenarios with misinformation I suggest reading this article AND watching this lecture.

Article:
https://www.al-islam.org/message-thaqalayn/vol11-n4-2011/shiite-authorities-minor-occultation-2-kulayni/shiite#kulaynī’s-personality-and-his-book-al-kāfī


Lecture:
https://www.al-islam.org/media/al-shaykh-al-kulayni-makers-shii-world-24

Edited by Ethics
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, VoidVortex said:

@ethics there's no need to be aggressive, the more questions the merrier, we can give sources and dispel misconceptions without aggressiveness

I am being a bit snarky with my comments but my intention is definitely not to be aggressive. I know it is hard to tell since it is all text characters. When I use uppercase I am just emphasizing the importance not yelling. My questions are genuine because every single post I try and understand this users ideology and beliefs. I always find it a bit disingenuous when people start a thread with a question, interpret their question and answer it in the same post and then just disagree with everything other users say.  It is if I made a thread asking Who is Muhammad, and then claim he was a womanizer because he had more than 1 wife. Then when people try to explain and teach their understanding, I just keep saying no that is not how it was and how I know it better than you.

Edited by Ethics
added a few things
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Ethics said:

Do you just make up ideas in your mind instead of actually reading history and understand who was Kulayni and what was going on during his time and how was his life and the situation he lived in? Do you understand what Hadith even are? And what does near 100% authentic even mean.

 

2 hours ago, Ethics said:

Instead of using all this free time to make up random scenarios with misinformation I suggest reading this article AND watching this lecture.

It seems like you're left with no work but to spoil threads. The things I know and the things I don't know are not topic of this thread. You should reply what is being asked rather than hurling accusations and talking about things which have nothing to do with the topic in question; this is basic ethics of replying to a discussion.

  

17 minutes ago, Ethics said:

I am being a bit snarky with my comments but my intention is definitely not to be aggressive. I know it is hard to tell since it is all text characters. When I use uppercase I am just emphasizing the importance not yelling. My questions are genuine because every single post I try and understand this users ideology and beliefs.

Ideology? Again, my ideology is not part of discussion here.

I once again request moderators @Abu Nur @Mahdavist @Hameedeh and others to take notice of this guy. He is doing spoiling here on ShiaChat.

 

Edited by The Alchemist
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
27 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

 

 The things I know and the things I don't know are not topic of this thread.

Ideology? Again, my ideology is not part of discussion here

what... that makes no sense.. your ideology is the main reason why you are making a thread and what you know and dont know makes up your understanding of that ideology. Which falls under the discussion at hand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
8 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

Sheikh al-Kulayni (250-329) lived during minor occultation of Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام). He could have directly narrated ahadith from Imam (عليه السلام) through his (عليه السلام) deputies making shorter reliable asnaad. Why did he took pains to meet narrators who could narrate ahadith of Imam Ja'far (عليه السلام) through longer asnaad (which in many cases are unreliable)?

Had he consulted the Imam of time (عليه السلام), at least shia community would have a book that would have been near to 100% authentic.

If I am correct, the time of minor occultation begin in 260 A.H and the purpose of occultation was to save Imam Zamana from every kind of threat. That being said, following things can be said about this occultation; 

1) Meeting with deputies was not frequent; 

2) Communication with Imam was only limited for those matters which couldn't be resolved by any other human;

3) Imam would have met deputies rather than they go and visit Imam so that no one knows whereabouts of Imams. 

Keeping these things in mind, it would have required lot of time and alot of risk from kulayni to get authentic traditions from Imam. Finally, it is being said that a great pool of shia books were burnt in libraries of Iran during the invasion of Genghis Khan and if this wouldn't have happened today we would more knowledge about Islam. So, it may have happened that there be more books related to Hadith of Imam-e-Zamana which we lost because of those accidents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
4 hours ago, Ethics said:

what... that makes no sense.. your ideology is the main reason why you are making a thread and what you know and dont know makes up your understanding of that ideology. Which falls under the discussion at hand.

Brother, it's ok if someone asks questions, I am sure that someone might get hint to answer for those questions. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
11 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

Had he consulted the Imam of time (عليه السلام), at least shia community would have a book that would have been near to 100% authentic.

The answer comes in that how do you consider that it was only very easy and simple to go and find Imam of time through his deputies?

In history there was the time when 11 earlier imams were martyred by the rulers of the time through sword and poison. Imam Mahdi as per hadith of the prophet will appear in the last days of ummah after major occultation and he will fill the earth with peace and justice as it will have been filled with oppression and injustice.

Imam has been protected by the system of protection defined by Allah for him ie occultation. Even the hadith of the prophet when there was no fear in his life hadith were collected but cold not be kept in safe protection with 100% authenticity. 

wasalam

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
15 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

Sheikh al-Kulayni (250-329) lived during minor occultation of Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام). He could have directly narrated ahadith from Imam (عليه السلام) through his (عليه السلام) deputies making shorter reliable asnaad. Why did he took pains to meet narrators who could narrate ahadith of Imam Ja'far (عليه السلام) through longer asnaad (which in many cases are unreliable)?

Had he consulted the Imam of time (عليه السلام), at least shia community would have a book that would have been near to 100% authentic.

Perhaps Kulayni was influenced by Caliph Abu Bakr who took 500 narrations from the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) but burnt them because of some doubt. 

Kulayni may have thought, "What if I take 500 ahadith from Imam Mahdi and burn them because of my self doubt just like what happened with Caliph Abu Bakr, the foremost of Muslims. I better just roam the world to collect ahadtih to avoid such a major sin.

I am not saying this happened but it's possible

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
13 hours ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

If I am correct, the time of minor occultation begin in 260 A.H and the purpose of occultation was to save Imam Zamana from every kind of threat. That being said, following things can be said about this occultation; 

1) Meeting with deputies was not frequent; 

2) Communication with Imam was only limited for those matters which couldn't be resolved by any other human;

3) Imam would have met deputies rather than they go and visit Imam so that no one knows whereabouts of Imams.

Deputies were shias, perhaps well learned too. Why did Sheikh al-Kulayni not narrate from them directly?

13 hours ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

it would have required lot of time and alot of risk from kulayni to get authentic traditions from Imam.

Sheikh al-Kulayni has narrated a vast number of narrations leading to Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (عليه السلام). Did that not involve alot of risk & time? Besides risk & time, it also made the asnaad prone to be weaker due to the increase in number of narrators in them. Perhaps, it is due to this, that scholar like Baqir al-Majlisi has categorised around 58% of al-Kafi as weak and unreliable.

13 hours ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Finally, it is being said that a great pool of shia books were burnt in libraries of Iran during the invasion of Genghis Khan and if this wouldn't have happened today we would more knowledge about Islam. So, it may have happened that there be more books related to Hadith of Imam-e-Zamana which we lost because of those accidents.

No book has ever vanished except that it's name is preserved in history. Can you mention some very very important books burnt during the Genghis Khan's invasion and historical persectution of shia community? Only mention important books whose place no book has been able to take.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
7 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Perhaps Kulayni was influenced by Caliph Abu Bakr who took 500 narrations from the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) but burnt them because of some doubt. 

Kulayni may have thought, "What if I take 500 ahadith from Imam Mahdi and burn them because of my self doubt just like what happened with Caliph Abu Bakr, the foremost of Muslims. I better just roam the world to collect ahadtih to avoid such a major sin.

I am not saying this happened but it's possible

Brother, if it is true than why do shia deem him reliable?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
31 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

Brother, if it is true than why do shia deem him reliable?

My statement was conjecture but Abu Bakr burning 500+ narrations is fact. So why do sunnis consider Abu Bakr reliable?

I guess we will never know the answers to these types of hypothetical questions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
20 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

My statement was conjecture but Abu Bakr burning 500+ narrations is fact. So why do sunnis consider Abu Bakr reliable?

Better ask this question from a sunni. This post was not about him.

 

20 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

I guess we will never know the answers to these types of hypothetical questions.

All hadith collectors whether sunni or shia (like al-Bukhari, al-Muslim, al-Tirmidhi, al-Ashub, al-Majlisi, etc) collected narrations from the sources which were available to them. But this does'nt seem to apply to Sheikh al-Kulayni who took pains to travel and meet those who could narrate from Imam al-Sadiq (عليه السلام). Many of those whom he met were not fabricators, kazabs, and so on. My question is not hypothetical; why didn't he narrate directly from deputies of Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام) as it is ijma (consensus/unanimity) in shia that his deputies were very very very reliable. Had he narrated from them, his book would have been more reliable.

So some questions arise here:

1. Did al-Kulayni deem the deputies as unreliable?

2. Did he not believe in ghayba of Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام)? (This doesn't appear to be the case as al-Kulayni has narrated a few ahadith from Imam al-Mehdi (AS)).

3. Did he write another book specifically on the ahadith of Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام)? If yes, what was name of that book and where did it go?

If you know answers to these questions, most welcome and If you dont, it is better to remain silent rather than posting irrelevant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
On 8/12/2022 at 11:16 AM, The Alchemist said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

Sheikh al-Kulayni (250-329) lived during minor occultation of Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام). He could have directly narrated ahadith from Imam (عليه السلام) through his (عليه السلام) deputies making shorter reliable asnaad. Why did he took pains to meet narrators who could narrate ahadith of Imam Ja'far (عليه السلام) through longer asnaad (which in many cases are unreliable)?

Had he consulted the Imam of time (عليه السلام), at least shia community would have a book that would have been near to 100% authentic.

2 - وبه، عن عبد الله بن جبلة، عن علي بن الحارث بن المغيرة، عن أبيه قال: قلت لأبي عبد الله: يكون فترةٌ لا يعرف المسلمون فيها إمامَهم؟ فقال: يقال ذلك. قلت: فكيف نصنع؟ قال: إذا كان ذلك فتمسكوا بالأمر الأول حتى يبين لكم الآخر.(2) Abdullah bin Jibilla narrated from Ali bin al-Harith bin al-Mugheera that his father had said: I asked Abu Abdullah as-Sadiq (as): “Will there be a time, in which the Muslims will not know who their imam is?” He said: “It is said so.” I said: “what will we do then?” He said: “If that occurs, then keep to the previous one until the next one becomes clear to you.”   Kitab al-Ghayba, al-Numani  vol 1 pg 159 hadith no:5

4 - حدثنا محمد بن همام قال: حدثنا عبد الله بن جعفر الحميري، عن محمد بن عيسى والحسن بن ظريف جميعاً، عن حماد بن عيسى، عن عبد الله بن سنان قال: دخلت أنا وأبي على أبي عبد الله فقال: كيف أنتم إذا صِرتم في حال لا ترَون فيها إمامَ هدى ولا علماً يُرى؟ فلا ينجو من تلك الحَيرة إلاّ مَن دعا بدعاء الغريق. فقال أبي: هذا واللهِ البلاءُ، فكيف نصنع، جُعلتُ فداك، حينئذ؟ قال: إذا كان ذلك - ولن تدركَه - فتمسّكوا بما في أيديكم حتى يتضحَ لكم الأمر.

(4) Muhammad bin Hammam narrated from Abdullah bin Ja’far al-Himyari from bin Eessa and al-Husayn bin Dhareef from Hammad bin Eessa that Abdullah bin Sinan had said: My father and I went to Abu Abdullah as-Sadiq (عليه السلام). He said: “What will you do if you become in a time that you do not find an imam of guidance nor any banner and then no one will be saved from that confusion except one, who will pray Allah with the prayer of drowner?” My father said: “By Allah, this is a great calamity. May I die for you! What will we do then?” He said: “If that occurs-and you will not attain it-then keep to that you have had until the matter becomes clear.” Kitab al-Ghayba, al-Numani vol 1 pg 159 hadith no:4

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
4 minutes ago, elite said:

2 - وبه، عن عبد الله بن جبلة، عن علي بن الحارث بن المغيرة، عن أبيه قال: قلت لأبي عبد الله: يكون فترةٌ لا يعرف المسلمون فيها إمامَهم؟ فقال: يقال ذلك. قلت: فكيف نصنع؟ قال: إذا كان ذلك فتمسكوا بالأمر الأول حتى يبين لكم الآخر.(2) Abdullah bin Jibilla narrated from Ali bin al-Harith bin al-Mugheera that his father had said: I asked Abu Abdullah as-Sadiq (as): “Will there be a time, in which the Muslims will not know who their imam is?” He said: “It is said so.” I said: “what will we do then?” He said: “If that occurs, then keep to the previous one until the next one becomes clear to you.”   Kitab al-Ghayba, al-Numani  vol 1 pg 159 hadith no:5

4 - حدثنا محمد بن همام قال: حدثنا عبد الله بن جعفر الحميري، عن محمد بن عيسى والحسن بن ظريف جميعاً، عن حماد بن عيسى، عن عبد الله بن سنان قال: دخلت أنا وأبي على أبي عبد الله فقال: كيف أنتم إذا صِرتم في حال لا ترَون فيها إمامَ هدى ولا علماً يُرى؟ فلا ينجو من تلك الحَيرة إلاّ مَن دعا بدعاء الغريق. فقال أبي: هذا واللهِ البلاءُ، فكيف نصنع، جُعلتُ فداك، حينئذ؟ قال: إذا كان ذلك - ولن تدركَه - فتمسّكوا بما في أيديكم حتى يتضحَ لكم الأمر.

(4) Muhammad bin Hammam narrated from Abdullah bin Ja’far al-Himyari from bin Eessa and al-Husayn bin Dhareef from Hammad bin Eessa that Abdullah bin Sinan had said: My father and I went to Abu Abdullah as-Sadiq (عليه السلام). He said: “What will you do if you become in a time that you do not find an imam of guidance nor any banner and then no one will be saved from that confusion except one, who will pray Allah with the prayer of drowner?” My father said: “By Allah, this is a great calamity. May I die for you! What will we do then?” He said: “If that occurs-and you will not attain it-then keep to that you have had until the matter becomes clear.” Kitab al-Ghayba, al-Numani vol 1 pg 159 hadith no:4

Do you mean al-Kulayni had no clear idea who the twelfth Imam (عليه السلام) was?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
34 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

Do you mean al-Kulayni had no clear idea who the twelfth Imam (عليه السلام) was?

Yes he knew who was the Imam but could not see him.

What I posted is the translation of the hadith from  “Thaqalayn.net”

A-R-F (Araf) root word has the basic meaning of to know the thing by any of the five senses.

So it  should be   “Will there be a time Muslims will not recognize their Imam?” means can not see their Imam?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
11 minutes ago, elite said:

Yes he knew who was the Imam but could not see him.

What I posted is the translation of the hadith from  “Thaqalayn.net”

A-R-F (Araf) root word has the basic meaning of to know the thing by any of the five senses.

So it  should be   “Will there be a time Muslims will not recognize their Imam?” means can not see their Imam?

Was he unable to meet his (عليه السلام) deputies?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
7 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

Deputies were shias, perhaps well learned too. Why did Sheikh al-Kulayni not narrate from them directly?

Since they were known to meet Imam, it might be that they were under heavy surveillance from the governments and that's why Sheikh Kulayni might have choose other ways for collection of Hadith.

 

7 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

Sheikh al-Kulayni has narrated a vast number of narrations leading to Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (عليه السلام). Did that not involve alot of risk & time? Besides risk & time, it also made the asnaad prone to be weaker due to the increase in number of narrators in them. Perhaps, it is due to this, that scholar like Baqir al-Majlisi has categorised around 58% of al-Kafi as weak and unreliable.

As for the risk, it was minimal as compared to meeting deputies of Imam. 

As for the time, he could have extracted more Ahadith by meeting people who were free to move in those kingdoms than getting only few Ahadith or may be no Ahadith from deputies because it might have put him in danger to be identified by governments who would have subject him to any kind of oppression. 

About Allama Majlisi's categorization of 58% as weak or unreliable, it is necessary to make it clear that researchers declare any Hadith as weak or unreliable on the basis of narrators and not the content. It may happen that a Hadith lacks one person's name in chain of narrators or such person is found as untrustworthy but the content is in agreement with Quran or any other Hadith of infallibles in which case it's content would be admissible.

Finally, if 58% of Ahadith are considered weak and unreliable, there is still 42% of the Ahadith left that is huge number.

7 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

No book has ever vanished except that it's name is preserved in history. Can you mention some very very important books burnt during the Genghis Khan's invasion and historical persectution of shia community? Only mention important books whose place no book has been able to take.

I have two names of the books which have disappeared one is Madina-tul-ilm which contained 12 volumes and another Usool-e-Arbamia. There could be more than these, I once heard or read somewhere that the number of sermons of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) were 400 but only 240 were compiled. There can be more than these which we lost due to some reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

Thanks for your input brother.

57 minutes ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Since they were known to meet Imam, it might be that they were under heavy surveillance from the governments and that's why Sheikh Kulayni might have choose other ways for collection of Hadith.

What does it mean then? If they indeed were under heavy surveillance, it means they were not delivering their duties of solving people's problems as directed by Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام)... It makes no sense for having deputies at all!

57 minutes ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

As for the risk, it was minimal as compared to meeting deputies of Imam. 

As for the time, he could have extracted more Ahadith by meeting people who were free to move in those kingdoms than getting only few Ahadith or may be no Ahadith from deputies because it might have put him in danger to be identified by governments who would have subject him to any kind of oppression.

If such kind of opression had really existed, al-Kafi would not have survived today.

57 minutes ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

About Allama Majlisi's categorization of 58% as weak or unreliable, it is necessary to make it clear that researchers declare any Hadith as weak or unreliable on the basis of narrators and not the content. It may happen that a Hadith lacks one person's name in chain of narrators or such person is found as untrustworthy but the content is in agreement with Quran or any other Hadith of infallibles in which case it's content would be admissible.

No usuli faqeeh ever relies on narrations with weak asnaad. If a hadith with weak sanad has something exceptional in its content (matn), there is no use comparing it with saheeh hadith or verses of Qur'an. To put it straight, ahadith with weak asnaad has almost no value at all, even if their content appears to be reasonable. I think there is unanimity of sunni & shia muhadiseen on this issue.

57 minutes ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Finally, if 58% of Ahadith are considered weak and unreliable, there is still 42% of the Ahadith left that is huge number.

Take a brief look of Mirat al-Uqool (exegesis of al-Kafi) of Allama al-Baqir Majlsi. You would find chapters after chapters with no saheeh narration at all. You would find many topics/issues for which you would not have even a single saheeh narration in al-Kafi. So it would be wrong to say that 42% saheeh narrations of al-Kafi are enough or a huge number.

57 minutes ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

I have two names of the books which have disappeared one is Madina-tul-ilm which contained 12 volumes

Madinat ul-Ilm by Allama Sheikh as-Saduq is not extant today because the book lost its value. Man La Yahdruhal Faqeeh and other works of him like al-Amali, al-Khisal, Alal Sharae, etc replaced Madinatul Ilm. So the scribes found no reason to make copies of the book, as there was nothing exceptional left in the work. Similar is the case of some works of Sheikh al-Mufid which are not extant today.

57 minutes ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

another Usool-e-Arbamia.

Most of the 400 usul (Usool al-Arbamiya) are preserved in one form or another in The Four Books and other classical books of hadith written by classical scholars. Hence, there was no need to preserve them.

Edited by The Alchemist
typo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

All hadith collectors whether sunni or shia (like al-Bukhari, al-Muslim, al-Tirmidhi, al-Ashub, al-Majlisi, etc) collected narrations from the sources which were available to them. But this does'nt seem to apply to Sheikh al-Kulayni who took pains to travel and meet those who could narrate from Imam al-Sadiq (عليه السلام). Many of those whom he met were not fabricators, kazabs, and so on. My question is not hypothetical; why didn't he narrate directly from deputies of Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام) as it is ijma (consensus/unanimity) in shia that his deputies were very very very reliable. Had he narrated from them, his book would have been more reliable.

So some questions arise here:

1. Did al-Kulayni deem the deputies as unreliable?

2. Did he not believe in ghayba of Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام)? (This doesn't appear to be the case as al-Kulayni has narrated a few ahadith from Imam al-Mehdi (AS)).

3. Did he write another book specifically on the ahadith of Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام)? If yes, what was name of that book and where did it go?

If you know answers to these questions, most welcome and If you dont, it is better to remain silent rather than posting irrelevant.

These are fantastic questions but I feel you are not getting to the depth of history of narrations.

Good question: why didn't Kulayni take ahadith from Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام)?

Better question: why didn't the 4 deputies of Imam write all the ahadith directly from Imam?

Even better question: why didn't the 12th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 11th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 10th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 9th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 8th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 7th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 6th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 5th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 4th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 3rd Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 2nd Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't Imam Ali write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) write all the ahadith himself? Did someone not give him pen/paper?

Best question: why is the Quran not sufficient which avoids all controversy about Kulayni's hadith collection process?

So many questions!!!

Edited by ShiaMan14
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

These are fantastic questions but I feel you are not getting to the depth of history of narrations.

Good question: why didn't Kulayni take ahadith from Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام)?

Better question: why didn't the 4 deputies of Imam write all the ahadith directly from Imam?

Even better question: why didn't the 12th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 11th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 10th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 9th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 8th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 7th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 6th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 5th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 4th Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 3rd Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the 2nd Imam write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't Imam Ali write all the ahadith himself?

Even better question: why didn't the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) write all the ahadith himself? Did someone not give him pen/paper?

Best question: why is the Quran not sufficient which avoids all controversy about Kulayni's hadith collection process?

So many questions!!!

Very good questions. Had they written ahadith themselves, there wouldn't have been any issue of weaker narrations at all.

Few more questions: Why did earlier books of Allah (Zabur, Torah, & Injeel) underwent fabrications? Why was'nt Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) the first and only Prophet of Allah? Why wasn't Qur'an the only book of Allah? If Allah created all human beings, why did He not make them all Muslims and shia Muslims in particular.

The answers are simple my dear brother yet elaborate.

God has given human free will.

It perhaps was due to the development of time and human enlightenment.

I suggest, start a separate thread on these questions. There would be wonderful discussion on them.

Edited by The Alchemist
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
1 hour ago, The Alchemist said:

What does it mean then? If they indeed were under heavy surveillance, it means they were not delivering their duties of solving people's problems as directed by Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام)... It makes no sense for having deputies at all!

They were solving people's problem but it was not that they were frequently visiting people otherwise what is significance of occultation. It wasn't like that they were free to move anywhere everyday. Even today, those who had relations with politically influential Marajas are limited in their movements so what do you think would be the case with deputies.

 

1 hour ago, The Alchemist said:

If such kind of opression had really existed, al-Kafi would not have survived today.

Well, there is history as to how shias safeguarded their books that's why we have some of those books.

 

1 hour ago, The Alchemist said:

No usuli faqeeh ever relies on narrations with weak asnaad. If a hadith with weak sanad has something exceptional in its content (matn), there is no use comparing it with saheeh hadith or verses of Qur'an. To put it straight, ahadith with weak asnaad has almost no value at all, even if their content appears to be reasonable. I think there is unanimity of sunni & shia muhadiseen on this issue.

Well bro, I already told you what the scholars think about admissibility of Ahadith that has weak or unreliable narrator in it. That's not my view. 

 

1 hour ago, The Alchemist said:

Take a brief look of Mirat al-Uqool (exegesis of al-Kafi) of Allama al-Baqir Majlsi. You would find chapters after chapters with no saheeh narration at all. You would find many topics/issues for which you would not have even a single saheeh narration in al-Kafi. So it would be wrong to say that 42% saheeh narrations of al-Kafi are enough or a huge number.

Well, I think there is not a single book of Allama Majlisi on al-kafi, there are many other books which tell many sahih Ahadith of al-kafi some of which are recently published. So, if you are looking for sahih Ahadith, you can buy them as well.

 

1 hour ago, The Alchemist said:

Madinat ul-Ilm by Allama Sheikh as-Saduq is not extant today because the book lost its value. Man La Yahdruhal Faqeeh and other works of him like al-Amali, al-Khisal, Alal Sharae, etc replaced Madinatul Ilm. So the scribes found no reason to make copies of the book, as there was nothing exceptional left in the work. Similar is the case of some works of Sheikh al-Mufid which are not extant today.

Is this the view of scribe himself? Or it's you view?

1 hour ago, The Alchemist said:

Most of the 400 usul (Usool al-Arbamiya) are preserved in one form or another in The Four Books and other classical books of hadith written by classical scholars. Hence, there was no need to preserve them.

if I  believe what you are saying is true and that we did not lose any book during difficult days, we can say that we have all the necessary books and therefore why should we worry that al-kafi has less number of Sahih Ahadith. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
6 minutes ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Well, I think there is not a single book of Allama Majlisi on al-kafi, there are many other books which tell many sahih Ahadith of al-kafi some of which are recently published. So, if you are looking for sahih Ahadith, you can buy them as well.

Which other books you mean? What are their names?

8 minutes ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Is this the view of scribe himself? Or it's you view?

Not my view. Back those pre-printing press days, you know, preserving books required alot of sources. It is a generally held view that those books which were important and exceptional were preserved.

10 minutes ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

if I  believe what you are saying is true and that we did not lose any book during difficult days, we can say that we have all the necessary books and therefore why should we worry that al-kafi has less number of Sahih Ahadith. 

Books were lost. But as far as I know, no important book which had no alternative was lost.

The problem is not that we have all necessary ahadith. The problem is we have unreliable narrations which lead to differences in scholars. Had al-Kulaini or any other hadith compiler directly compiled from deputies of Imam (عليه السلام), the problem of unreliable narrations would have almost been vanished.

Sunnis don't believe in Imamah. To them only Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) is hujjah. Muhammad ibn Ismail al-Bukhari who lived a couple of years before Sheikh al-Kulaini made efforts to collect ahadith of Prophet Muhammad (SAWW). He collected them from everyone who could narrate to him. He then made painstaking efforts to separate saheeh narrations through ilm al-rijal finally compiling a book which most of sunnis consider as almost (if not completely) saheeh.

Sheikh al-Kulaini had an advantage. He believed in Imamah. To him, Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام) was as much hujjah as Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) or any other Aima (عليه السلام). Why did he not avail that advantage by collecting all necessary ahadith from Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام) thereby reducing efforts & time? He would have saved himself from Ilm ul rijal a science that is surely prone to error.

Instead, he chose to collect ahadith like al-Bukhari which doesn't make any sense considering presence of a living Imam (عليه السلام) back those days.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)

The following are the words of Great scholar Al- Kulaini who has collected the hadiths of the prophet and 12 imams and complied it in the form of book Al-kafi:

Introduction
(by al-Kulayni)

In the Praise of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
All praise belongs to Allah Who is praised for His bounties, worshipped for His Might, obeyed in His rule and feared for His Majesty. He possesses all that is attractive; His commands pervade in all of His creation. He is High, the Most High. He is near in His Highness and the Most High above being seen. His being the first has had no beginning and He is eternal. He existed before the existence of all things and He is the eternal Who guards all things. He is the overwhelming power and the preservation of the things does not burden Him. He is the only Almighty in His kingdom and only power to compel what is to compel. Through wisdom He has revealed His authority over His
creation. He created all things in their origin new and at the very beginning through His might and wisdom and nothing existed to invalidate His being the originator of all things. No other cause existed to compete His invention. He alone created what He wished as He wished to reveal His wisdom and the reality of His Lordship. Reason is not able to grasp Him. Imagination is not able to reach Him.
Eyes are not able to see Him. Measurement is not able to limit Him. Statements fail to describe Him. Eyes turn dull in trying to see Him. Describing Him by means of qualities looses the right path. He is veiled without any barrier and is concealed without any covering. He is known but is not seen and is described without a form. He is characterized without a body. There is no Lord except Allah, the Most Great, the Most High. Imagination looses the right path in trying to reach His reality.
Intelligent becomes exhausted and is not able to reach Him. So also is the case with imaginations and eyesight. He is all hearing and all knowing. Allah has established His authority over His creatures through His messengers (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) and has explained things with evidence. He has sent His messengers with glad news and warnings. So that those who would find salvation would do so with proper evidence and those would be destroyed would be so for ignoring proper evidence. So that people would learn about their Lord what they are ignorant of and know Him through His Lordship after that they were ignorant of this fact, so that they would believe in Him as the only One Lord after considering other things like Him.
I thank Him in a way that would be a cure for the souls, of a degree to please Him, enough to fulfil the duty to express gratitude for His favors to us in the form of His pleasant blessings, graceful bounties and beautiful trials.
I testify that there is no Lord except Allah alone Who has no partners. He is the only Lord, the only self-sufficient Who has no companion or children.
I testify that Muhammad (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) is His servant. He is His chosen one, His messenger whom He sent at a time of lapse of messengers and at the time of the long sleep of the nations, wide spread of ignorance, mischief and shortages of authority, blindness to the truth, prevailing injustice and the disappearance of religion.
Allah sent His book to him (Muhammad (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) that contains the statements and explanations, a reading in straight forward Arabic language so that people may become pious.
Allah has explained and organized this book for the people and with knowledge He has given the details. He has explained a religion in it, certain obligations are made obligatory therein and certain matters are declared for His creature in it. It contains signs that lead to salvation and evidence that call to guidance.
He (Muhammad (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) preached His message and executed His commands. He fulfilled his responsibilities with patience for the sake of his Lord. He worked hard for His cause, gave good advice to his followers and invited them to salvation. He encouraged them to speak of (Allah), gave them guidance to the right path after his passing away through a system, reason, basis for the people and signs that he established for them so that they would not be mislead after him. It was all due to his kindness and sympathy for them.
When his life ended and his days were over, Allah took his soul to Himself. With Allah he is well pleased for his deeds. His reward is a good deal and his position very great. He left this world leaving behind among his followers the Book of Allah and the executor of his will, Amir al-Mu’minin Ali (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) the master of the believers and the leader (Imam) for pious people.

The twine that he left behind was a united companion. They each acknowledge and speak in support of the other.
The Imam speaks of Allah from the Book. He speaks of what Allah has made obligatory on His servants, of obedience to Him, of obedience to the Imam (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) and the acknowledgement of Leadership with Divine Authority
. He speaks of His rights that are meant to be for the completion of religion, His commandments, establishment of His authority, seeking guidance in His light from its mines, His chosen and select people who possess good from Him. Allah through the Imams of guidance from the family of His Prophet (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) has explained His religion. Through them He has clarified the ways of His system. Through them He has opened the inside of His knowledge. He has made them to be the path to know Him, the sources of knowledge of His religion, the medium between Him and His creatures, the gate that lead to know His right and has given them the knowledge of His hidden secret.
Whenever, an Imam from them would leave this world He would establish a clearly known successor for that Imam for His creatures as a bright guide, an Imam and guardian with the truth and justice. Allah and those who preach for Him and supervise over His creatures have established their authority.
Through their guidance people follow the religion and through their light people of the lands find their way.
Allah has made them, (Imams (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) the life for people, the light in darkness, the key to the words and the pillars of Islam. He has based the system of His obedience and the fulfillment of obligation submission to them (Imams (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) in all that one would know and ask them what one is ignorant of. He has prohibited others from engaging in what they are ignorant of and from rejecting what they would not know. It is because Allah has willed to save, from His creatures whoever He would will, from injustice and darkness.

May Allah grant blessings upon Muhammad (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) and the select members of his family whom Allah has cleansed thoroughly.

After my words about Allah and His Messenger, above herein below is my response to your note.

I have understood your concerns about the conditions of the people of our times who seem to have agreed up on ignorance to be the standard and authority in their dealings. They cooperate and work together to establish the ways and the manners of ignorance and distance themselves from knowledge and the people of knowledge. Consequently, knowledge is almost banished and the sources of knowledge are about to depart the people. It is all because they rely so much on ignorance (ignorant people) and lose the (blessing of) the people of knowledge. You have asked, "Can the dealings of the people be considered proper in following a religion without knowing the rules and laws therein that show what is lawful or otherwise? Can they decide and settle all matters on the basis of what they feel is good and live a life in such a manner? Can they just do what their ancestors had been doing and rely on their own understanding of the issues great or small?"

To understand the answer to your question, O brother in faith, may Allah grant you blessings, note the following:
Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, has created human beings and has given them distinction over the animals. He has given them the ability to understand and distinguish good from bad. Human beings have been given the ability to understand Allah’s commands and prohibitions.
There are two kinds of people. (a) There are those who are physically and mentally safe and sound and (b) those who lack such abilities. Safe and sound people are held responsible to follow the commands and prohibitions of Allah. Those who lack such abilities are exempt because of their inability to learn, discipline and fulfill responsibilities. Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Gracious, has designed education, good manners and moral discipline to serve as means of survival for the people who are safe and sound. Had it been permissible for safe and sound people to follow ignorance it would have been permissible for them not to become obligated to fulfill responsibilities. Such a condition would amount to make the coming of the Divine messengers and education useless. Ignoring the book of guidance, the Divine messengers and education would destroy the whole civilization. This would be a return to atheism. The justice and wisdom of Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Gracious, required the creation of creatures who would understand the commands and prohibitions of Allah so that people would not live a useless life. Instead they realize the greatness of Allah, acknowledge His Oneness and that He is the Lord. They must know that He is their Creator Who gives them sustenance. The proof of His existence is so clear and obvious. The signs of His authority are shinning and manifest. His lighthouses are visible everywhere and call people to believe in Allah, the Most Majestic, and the Most Gracious. Each sign testifies to the existence of the Lord and the One Who deserves to be worshipped. Such proofs that exist in each sign are proofs of the effect of the creation in them. Each creature is a marvelous proof of His plan. He invites them to know Him so that they will not remain ignorant of His existence and ignorant of His religion and laws.
People of wisdom do not consider ignorance of his existence a permissible attitude, as is the case of denying His religion. Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Gracious, said:
"Did they not make a covenant (with Allah) in the Book not to speak any thing other than the Truth about Allah and to study its contents well? " (7:169) They call a lie something that is beyond the limit of their knowledge . . ." (10:39)
People are bound to obey the commands of Allah and His prohibitions. It is not permissible for them to follow ignorance (ignorant people).
It is obligatory for them to ask if they would not already know and to acquire proper understanding of religion.
Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Gracious, has said, "Not all believers have to become specialists in religious learning. Why do not some people from each group of believers seek to become specialists in religious learning and, after completing their studies, guide their group so that they will have fear of Allah." (9:122)
If people who are physically and mentally safe and sound were permitted to stay ignorant Allah would not have asked them to ask and learn. He would not have needed to send any messengers, books and guidance. In such case, they would have lived like animals or like people physically and mentally defective and if so they would not remain in existence even for a blinking of an eye. In fact, it is not permissible for them to live without discipline and education. Thus, it became necessary for those physically and mentally sound to find instructors to educate and discipline them and provide answer to their questions. The best and most important education for people of reason, the education worthwhile for one to study assiduously is the religious education. The education that would teach one about the Creator, His Oneness and how to worship Him, is the most important one. It is important to be educated in the issues of Shari‘a, His laws of guidance, His commandments, prohibitions, warnings and discipline.
This is necessary because there is solid evidence to support the need for such education, that responsibility is real, life is short, indifference and procrastination is not acceptable. The condition for a worship to be proper and acceptable is to fulfil all the obligations on the basis of certainty, knowledge and proper understanding. Only than the worshiper would be considered praiseworthy in the sight of Allah and deserving rewards and His great blessings.
On the other hand, one who acts without proper knowledge and understanding does not know what and for what reason one is acting. Ignorant people do not have trust in what they do. They do not acknowledge any thing because acknowledgement does not come without doubt free knowledge of the subject to be acknowledged.
The person who has doubts is not like a person who has certainty of the matters of piety, humbleness before the Lord and the need to seek nearness to Him. Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Gracious, has said, "Those who have witnessed the truth only they have proper knowledge." (43:87)
Only the testimony of those who possess proper knowledge is accepted and it is because of the knowledge of the subject of the testimony. Without the knowledge of the subject of the testimony it would not have been accepted. The acceptance of the deeds of the people who act with doubts is up to Allah to decide. He may accept such deeds because of His grace or He may refuse to accept because of the absence of the conditions such as knowledge and certainty. It is Knowledge, proper understanding and certainty that separate one from those mentioned in the following words of Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Gracious, "Certain people worship Allah to achieve worldly gains. They are confident when they are prosperous, but when they face hardships they turn away from (worship).
They are lost in this life and will be lost in the life to come. Such loss is indeed destructive." (22:11)

It is all because of acting without knowledge and certainty in the beginning and in the end. The scholar has said, "One who accepts the faith with certainty he remains in it steadfast and the faith benefits him. Those who accept the faith without certainty they leave it just as they came in."
He has also said, "Those who get their religion from the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) the strength of their faith is as such that mountains may be destroyed but not their faith. Those who get their religion from the words of the people they may reject it"
He has also said, "Those who do not know us through the Holy Quran they fail to protect themselves against mischief."
For this reason so many religions have emerged in our times as well as disgraceful systems that almost have entered the level of disbelief. This is because of the opportunity that Allah has provided for every one. One whose faith in the will of Allah is to remain solid He makes the means that would make it so happen, available. He then gets his religion from the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) with certainty and proper understanding. His religion is stronger than the heavy mountains. Those whose faith in the will of Allah is to be temporary and bound to failure, - may He grant us refuge- He gives them the opportunity to follow certain ideas that are devoid of Divine authority. They follow what seems good to one to follow and such other matters like following what others do, certain interpretations and so on without proper understand and certainty. In such case Allah may or may not accept their deeds. They may live as a believer in the morning and a disbeliever in the evening or vice versa. It is because such people may easily follow the influential elements in the society or act upon what they feel is good.
The scholar (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) has said, "Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Gracious, has created the prophets with prophet-hood they can be nothing but prophets. He has created the executors of the will of the prophets as the executors thus they can be nothing but the executors of the wills of the prophets. He has given temporary faith to certain people. He may complete it for them or remove it from them as mentioned in this Quranic expression, " The established faith the temporary faith."
You have mentioned that you are confused in the issues of the verification of hadith due to the difference in variously narrated texts and that you know the reason for variation but you do not find reliable people to discuss with. You have said that you wish you had a book sufficient (Kafi) that would contain all issues of the religion. A book that would provide a student all the material that he would need is urgently needed. A book is needed that would help people to have proper guidance in the matters of religion to follow the correct instructions of the truthful people (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) and the prevailing Sunnah, the basis of practices. So that one would fulfil his responsibilities towards Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Gracious, and follow the Sunnah of (the Holy Prophet).
You have said, that you hope such a book would, Allah willing, help our brothers in faith to find the right guidance.
My brother in faith, may Allah grant you proper guidance, please note that there is no other way to sort out the confusion that comes from the variation of the narration of the scholars except by the help of the principles that the scholar (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) has set. "Compare a narration with the text of the Holy Quran. Whatever agrees with the Holy Quran is acceptable and what does not agree is rejected."

Also he has said, "Leave alone what agrees with the views of the others because the right is in what is opposite to them."
Also there are his (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) words, "Follow what is unanimously agreed upon because there is no harm in what is unanimously agreed upon."
We are only able to apply such principles to a very few of such cases. We do not find any thing better and more precautionary than to refer to the scholar (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) and accept that which is within the limit of his (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) words, "Whichever you would follow in submission and obedience is excusable for you."
Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Gracious, has made the compilation of the book that you had wished for possible. I hope it will prove to be up to your expectations. It may have shortcomings, but our intentions have not been insincere to provide good advice because to provide good advice to our people is obligatory. We also hoped to be considered as partners of all benefits of this book up to the end of time.
The Lord is one, the Messenger is one, the last prophet (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) is one and the Shari‘a is one. What Muhammad (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) has made lawful will remain lawful up to the Day of Judgment and what he has made unlawful will remain unlawful to the Day of Judgment. We extended the Book on ‘People with Divine Authority’ to a certain degree although not as it should have been done because we did not like to be deprived of the benefits thereof. I hope Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Gracious, will approve what is based on our intentions. If life will give us a chance we intend to compile a book of a bigger volume to serve the causes as they should be served, by the will of Allah, the Most High. From Him comes the power and means. From Him one expects help and increase in rewards and opportunity.
May Allah grant blessings up on Muhammad and his purified family.
The first thing is the book of Intelligence and the virtue of knowledge, the excellence of the people of knowledge, the defects of the people of ignorance and its harms. Intelligence is the focal point and the axes of the matters. On the basis of Intelligence come the rewards and sufferings and Allah is the best One to provide good opportunities."

The author has mentioned in clear words the reasons for collection of hadith and writing the book Al-Kafi , instead of considering [a youth]after 1200 years to mention that why the scholar has not collected the hadith as per his present intentions and wishes. 

:hahaha:

Edited by Hameedeh
insult removed in the last paragraph
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)

Words of Appreciation for his Efforts
Al-Najashi
has said, "In our people al-Kulayni was the chief scholar in Ray, Iran. He was the most reliable in the matters of hadith.
Al-‘Allama al-Hilli has confirmed this and ibn Dawud also has expressed similar words about him.
Al-Tusi, the great scholar has called him the most dependable expert in hadith, the man of highest esteem and a scholar in hadith.
Al-Sayyid Radi al-Din ibn Tawus has said, "Muhammad ibn Ya‘qub al-Kulayni is universally accepted for his leadership and reliability."
He has also said, "Muhammad ibn Ya‘qub, al-Kulayni is the most eloquent and the most truthful in the knowledge of hadith."
Ibn al-Athir has called him to be of the outstanding leaders of the Shi‘a and their great scholar."
He has also described him as "A reformer of the Shi‘a at the end of the third century, as their leader and as a renown scholar among them."
Al-Tayyibi has called him the reviver of the ’Ummah, the whole Muslim community at the end of that century . . . He was among the most learned in Islamic jurisprudence.39
Ibn Hajar has said, "He was one among the Shi‘a scholars of law and an author of their school." 40
He has also said, "Abu Ja'far Muhammad ibn Ya'qub al-Kulayni was among the chief scholars of the Shi ‘a world in the days of al-Muqtadir." 41
Al-Shaykh Husayn ibn 'Abd al-Samad al-Harithi al-Hamdani has said, "Muhammad ibn Ya'qub al-Kulayni was the religious chief of his time and an outstanding, noble minded and highly learned scholar. He was the most reliable person in hadith, the best critic and the most conversant in it." 42
Al-Qadi Nur Allah al-Shushtari placed him at the top of the scholars of hadith and the chief guardian thereof. 49
Muhammad Taqi al-Majlisi, the great scholar has said,
"He is unparalleled among all the scholars we have seen. The study of his compiling hadith, his manner of editing them, proves him to be a Divinely gifted scholar.
"May Allah grant him the highest rewards reserved for the doers of the good for his services to Islam and the Muslim community." 44
He also has called him "The shaykh (the chief) al-Sadiq (the most truthful) and Thiqatu al-Islam (the most trustworthy in Islamic learning), as one acceptable to people of all classes. Both Shi‘a and non-Shi‘a have praised him." 46
Mirza ‘Abd Allah al-Afandi has said, "The person generally referred to with the title Thiqatu al-Islam (the trustworthy in Islamic issues) is Muhammad ibn Ya‘qub ibn Ishaq al-Kulayni al-Razi, the compiler of the book al-Kafi. He is the earliest religious chief of the Muslim world in the sight of the masses and the elite alike and the Mufti, scholar of law for both the Shi‘a and the Sunni Muslims." 46

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
8 hours ago, Muslim2010 said:

The author has mentioned in clear words the reasons for collection of hadith and writing the book Al-Kafi , instead of considering an ignorant after 1200 years to mention that why the scholar has not collected the hadith as per his present intentions and wishes. 

:hahaha:

Wait! What! You mean to tell me Al-Kulayni didn't collect all those ahadith on a whim!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
14 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

So many questions!!!

Sorry but that was quite brilliant.

While I think OP Had a genuine question, but why questions regarding Allah's Plans are not always answered. 

The answer may elude us and we have to ask those with more knowledge of history of the political intrigues of that time period. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Wait! What! You mean to tell me Al-Kulayni didn't collect all those ahadith on a whim!!!

Biography of al-Kulayni
"Kulayn was a village 27 kilometers south west of the city of Ray, a well-known city in Iran. The ruins of the village still are near Tehran, Iran. Muhammad ibn Ya‘qub Kulayni, the compiler of al-Kafi was born in this village.
Further evidence that he was born therein is the fact that in history he is called the religious scholar of Shi‘a of Ray in his time.
Muhammad ibn Ya‘qub ibn Ishaq al-Kulayni al-Razi al-Baghdadi was from a noble family of Kulayn. Outstanding scholars in jurisprudence and hadith came from this family.

Al-Kulayni, of all other compilers of hadith, alone was a contemporary of all the four successive special representatives and ambassadors of Imam al-Mahdi, the twelfth Imam (DivineSupremeCovenantBody). He had the chance to collect hadith from the proper sources. Al-Kafi, the book is a unique collection of hadith. Al-Kulayni compiled this book on request from a prominent Shi ‘a scholar (as mentioned in his introduction to al-Kafi).
Prominent scholars of Islamic studies in search of knowledge would meet him at his place to discuss, exchange notes and to confer with him for better understanding of the issues.

Al-Kulayni was a great scholar, a reliable narrator of hadith and a man of great learning. He was of the outstanding scholars of law and an authority in the science of hadith science. He was a man of great chastity, piety, integrity and holiness.
His book al-Kafi, no doubt, is a treasure of Islamic literature, Shari‘a (law), Divine commandments and prohibitions, in the form of texts of the Sunna, the statements, actions and the approvals of the Holy Prophet and the twelve Imams (DivineSupremeCovenantBody). It is a text of the basis of the Islamic education and culture.
Al-Kulayni has himself prefaced his book, al-Kafi and has also provided certain explanatory notes in certain chapters which shows his skill and proficiency in writing and in Arabic literature.
He was well versed in categorizing the narrators of hadith and the texts of hadith. He is the author of a book in the science of hadith and an expert in scrutinizing the narrators. He was a great scholar of theology and he has written a book refuting al-Qaramitah (one of the several names applied to the sect of Isma‘ilies who were once very active in politics)."

The biography of Al-Kulaini as mentioned in the preface part of Alkafi (English version) is presented above, that indicates he collected the hadith in the form of book on the request of some prominent shia scholar. However there is no name mentioned in its introduction part.

Distinctive Features of Alkafi:
1. The compiler of al-Kafi, al-Kulayni was a contemporary of the four successive special
representatives of Imam al-Mahdi (DivineSupremeCovenantBody). As al-Sayyid ibn Tawus has pointed out, "All the works and the collections (of hadith) of al-Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ya‘qub al-Kulayni had been completed during the life time of the special representatives of Imam al-Mahdi
(DivineSupremeCovenantBody). It is a ground to believe the veracity of his collection of hadith. 71
2. The compiler, except in the case of a few hadith, has named the whole chain of narrators up to the infallible Imam (DivineSupremeCovenantBody). In certain cases he deletes the first narrator probably because he quotes from the original book that narrates directly from the Imam
(DivineSupremeCovenantBody). 72

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
16 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

Very good questions. Had they written ahadith themselves, there wouldn't have been any issue of weaker narrations at all.

Few more questions: Why did earlier books of Allah (Zabur, Torah, & Injeel) underwent fabrications? Why was'nt Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) the first and only Prophet of Allah? Why wasn't Qur'an the only book of Allah? If Allah created all human beings, why did He not make them all Muslims and shia Muslims in particular.

The answers are simple my dear brother yet elaborate.

God has given human free will.

It perhaps was due to the development of time and human enlightenment.

Can this be applied to your question?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member
2 hours ago, guess said:

Sorry but that was quite brilliant.

While I think OP Had a genuine question, but why questions regarding Allah's Plans are not always answered. 

The answer may elude us and we have to ask those with more knowledge of history of the political intrigues of that time period. 

Call me cynical but sometimes questions are asked to learn, other times to criticize. The tone of this OP seemed latter.

I believe Kulayni was inspired to do his work during the lifetimes of the 4 nails. It was not a mere coincidence.

I can't take my brother @Alchemist seriously because he compared Sistani to Zakir Naik and thinks ZN is more popular than the pope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
23 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

Was he unable to meet his (عليه السلام) deputies?

No. He was be able to meet, but there is no evidence that he met any of the deputies of the Imam(عليه السلام)  Al Kulayni Lived in Ray and Qum  where  as deputies of the Imam (عليه السلام) lived in Baghdad.  Al Kulayni went to Baghdad in Hijri 327 and died  in Hijri 329.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...