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Why is Sayyed Ali al-Sistani so famous?

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:bismillah:

:salam:

Ayatollah Sayyed Ali al-Sistani (may Allah lengthen his life) is considered as the greatest living shia scholar of this time.

What makes him the greatest shia scholar? Is that so because he is politically influential in Iraq?

He has no presence in public (let alone social media). Perhaps, he has not delivered even a single public lecture in his whole life. If he had done so, it would have been available online in form of audio or video clip. So, he is not listened to as well contrary to other modern scholars of other schools of thoughts.

His books are also not well read by common men. His only mass translated book is Tauzeeh al-Masail (Islamic Laws). The book contain no rationale/discussion behind his fatawa. This is contrary to the famous ulema of Ahlul Hadith (al-Bani, al-Baz to say a few), who beside mentioning their verdict also persent their rationale/arguments in their fatawa too.

Yes, there are alot of his muqalids (followers). But it shocking to see that most of these muqalids do not know much about him except that he is a great scholar.

His official website al-Sistani.org is full of stuff like "permissible" and "not permissible" without explaining wisdom behind it most of the times. The website's "Send Question" session explicitly mentions that "We do not reply to purely scientific questions or those that are not of daily use or questions about the concept and wisdom [sic] of Islamic laws."

Some of his fatawa are somehow impracticable and hard to act upon. For instance, he says a Non-Muslim is najis (ritually impure), and to him ritual purity (tahaarat) is obligatory for touching Qur'an. So in his view, Non-Muslim can not touch Qur'an. Isn't strange? If he can't touch Qur'an, how can he get guidance from it? Someone may argue that a Non-Muslim can touch translation only copy of Qur'an. Now, let's suppose the Non-Muslim in question is among a million native Arabic speaking Non-Muslims living in Middle East & Central Asia, what should he do when the only language he knows is Arabic?

An educated person living in this globalised era demands reasoning and argument for following religious verdicts. This is not an era of blind following. Modern scholars (or their representatives) have considerable presence on social media. For example, Dr Zakir Naik (he mainly follows fatawa of reputed Ahlul Hadith scholars) conducts online Q & A session regularly on his YouTube & Facebook link. He welcomes any type of question & he explains wisdom behind Islamic Laws too. Why can't Sayyed al-Sistani or any of his well learned representative hold such sessions too?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The Alchemist said:

Some of his fatawa are somehow impracticable and hard to act upon. For instance, he says a Non-Muslim is najis (ritually impure), and to him ritual purity (tahaarat) is obligatory for touching Qur'an. So in his view, Non-Muslim can not touch Qur'an. Isn't strange? If he can't touch Qur'an, how can he get guidance from it? Someone may argue that a Non-Muslim can touch translation only copy of Qur'an. Now, let's suppose the Non-Muslim in question is among a million native Arabic speaking Non-Muslims living in Middle East & Central Asia, what should he do when the only language he knows is Arabic?

3Question: What is the stand on giving a non-Muslim the Qur`an for him or her to learn about the Qur`an and our faith if it is Arabic text?

Answer: Given the supposition made, if the Quran is not made Najis or disrespected by them, there would be no problem.
 
Besides this, he says that one can listen Quran if he is not in state of purity.
 
Edited by Borntowitnesstruth
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Salam Alaykum, 

You have to understand how the hawza system works. Some people decide to pursue their hawza studies to become jurists. The hawza system is actually designed to cater for those people. However not everyone decides to pursue that path. Some people may do hawza to become experts at other fields such as philosophy, theology, history etc. 

It's not common to find a marja (those who people do we do taqleed to) to be an expert at a lot of other fields as well. They are specialists when it comes to their chosen field. This is why they may have not written books in other fields. The books you've mentioned relate to jurisprudence, which is expected since that relates to his speciality. I don't expect him to publish books on other subjects such as mysticism ('irfan) etc. If it goes beyond his area. 

So when people deem him to be a great scholar, what sort of criteria are you looking for to be able to validate or invalidate their conclusions? Are you basing it on the number of books written? How many followers? Presence? Or in a more technical sense of their chosen area of expertise?

I would say the best people to ask would be those who have completed or are studying their advanced Kharij studies in hawza. How can a layman evaluate the expertise of these maraja if they have not even acquainted themselves with the  science to an advanced level? It's like a high school student evaluating the works of a PHD student. 

Again, it's not a requirement nor necessary for a scholar to give public lectures. I know many scholars who prefer not to out of precaution and they prefer addressing issues in different ways to avoid misunderstandings. Some may not have the time simply due to such a demanding role where millions depend on their fatawa around the world. Do you realise how much pressure one is faced with for such a big task? Also not to disregard their personal spiritual responsibilities and their families.

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On 8/11/2022 at 2:48 AM, The Alchemist said:

An educated person living in this globalised era demands reasoning and argument for following religious verdicts. This is not an era of blind following. Modern scholars (or their representatives) have considerable presence on social media. For example, Dr Zakir Naik (he mainly follows fatawa of reputed Ahlul Hadith scholars) conducts online Q & A session regularly on his YouTube & Facebook link. He welcomes any type of question & he explains wisdom behind Islamic Laws too. Why can't Sayyed al-Sistani or any of his well learned representative hold such sessions too?

Because you don't need to talk to a marja for understanding things. There are many shia scholars out there that can answer questions, and even an app like the ask those who know app or ask a question on al-islam.org. If people want reasoning for arguments they can ask local scholars etc. or read books of fiqh if they know arabic or farsi. If the Marja were to include the reasoning behind their fatawa it would make the book of their fatawa extremely long. 

On 8/11/2022 at 2:48 AM, The Alchemist said:

His official website al-Sistani.org is full of stuff like "permissible" and "not permissible" without explaining wisdom behind it most of the times. The website's "Send Question" session explicitly mentions that "We do not reply to purely scientific questions or those that are not of daily use or questions about the concept and wisdom [sic] of Islamic laws."

well honestly because their service is for answering people's fiqh questions. People can ask about the wisdom of Islamic laws from local scholars or even research it on al-islam.org where books exist talking about the philosophy of Islamic laws. 

On 8/11/2022 at 2:48 AM, The Alchemist said:

Yes, there are alot of his muqalids (followers). But it shocking to see that most of these muqalids do not know much about him except that he is a great scholar.

this is because senior scholars in najaf identify him as the most learned of this time. Another thing which may have stood the sayed out, is the fatwa he had against ISIS in 2014, which was very influential in the fight back against ISIS. 

  • Quote

     

    • Minhaj al-salihin (منهاج الصالحین): the book contains fatwas by Ayatollah al-Sistani in 3 volumes. It was published in Qom in 1415/1994. Minhaj al-salihin is in fact a book by Al-Sayyid Muhsin al-Hakim, modified and expanded by Ayatollah al-Khoei according to his fatwas, and was later modified and expanded by Ayatollah al-Sistani. The preface of the book written by Ayatollah al-Sistani is dated Dhu l-Hijja 20, 1413/June 11, 1993.
    • Qa'ida la darar wa la dirar (قاعدة لا ضرر و لا ضرار): notes from Ayatollah al-Sistani's lectures on fiqh written by al-Sayyid Muhammad Rida al-Sistani and published in 1414/1993-4.
    • Ikhtilaf al-hadith (اختلاف الحدیث): notes from Ayatollah al-Sistani's lectures in 1396/1976 written by his student, Sayyid Hashim Hashimi, and unofficially published in 195 pages. The notes show that Ayatollah al-Sistani's approach to resolving apparent contradictions in hadiths is to pinpoint the origins of such discrepancies in hadiths, rather than al-ta'adul wa l-tarajih (balancing and preferring).
    • Al-'Urwa al-Wuthqa (العروة الوثقی): al-Sistani's commentaries on al-Yazdi's well-known book, al-'Urwa al-Wuthqa. The second print of the book is published in Beirut in 1431/2010. The book has two volumes.
    • Al-Rafid fi l-usul (الرافد فی الاصول): notes from Ayatollah al-Sistani's lectures on usul al-fiqh written by Sayyid Munir Sayyid 'Adnan al-Qatifi in one volume in Arabic. The book is concerned with the value of usul al-fiqh for the Imamiyya, approaches to usul al-fiqh, and similar issues.

     

    books do exist where he does explain some fiqh

الكتب الفتوائية - موقع مكتب سماحة المرجع الديني الأعلى السيد علي الحسيني السيستاني (دام ظله) (sistani.org)

more books in arabic 

also other books of fiqh by other scholars exist. They are just not translated in english.

Jurisprudence – Iqra Online

in the above link you can see how scholars approach fiqh, and what kind of reasoning they might do, the ghina one is very good for seeing how the process may be done

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48 minutes ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

3Question: What is the stand on giving a non-Muslim the Qur`an for him or her to learn about the Qur`an and our faith if it is Arabic text?

Answer: Given the supposition made, if the Quran is not made Najis or disrespected by them, there would be no problem.
 
Besides this, he says that one can listen Quran if he is not in state of purity.
 

There is no verse in Qur'an which ordains wudhu or ritual purity as a condition for touching Qur'an. The verse (Surah al-Waqiya 56/79) that is often quoted to justify doing wudhu as obligation before touching Qur'an has a different context. If you go through any tafasir, the verse talks about loh-e-mahfooz (the preserved tablet) and none but pure (Jibraeel) can touch it i.e. shayateen (devils) cannot touch it.

In the same way, I have not come across even a single hadith from Ahlul Bayt with a saheeh sanad which makes taharat obligatory for touching Qur'an. If you know any, do kindly share here.

Practically speaking, always doing wudhu as obligation before approaching Qur'an slightly pushes one away from acquiring knowledge from it. I would finish reading a book in say 15 days normally. But since touching Qur'an involves formalities like having wudhu would require atleast double the time to finish reading it. Respecting Qur'an by doing wudhu everytime is a good idea but formalities should not be that much strict to keep one away from Qur'an.

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18 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

It's not common to find a marja (those who people do we do taqleed to) to be an expert at a lot of other fields as well. They are specialists when it comes to their chosen field. This is why they may have not written books in other fields. The books you've mentioned relate to jurisprudence, which is expected since that relates to his speciality. I don't expect him to publish books on other subjects such as mysticism ('irfan) etc. If it goes beyond his area. 

I do not mean that he should be expert in all fields.

As a jurist (faqeeh), he is supposed to address fiqh issues in detail, which he doesn't seem to be doing. His book, Tauzeeh al-Masail, is full of only "Dos" & "Donts"; it does not explain anything. Look at the way how jurists (faqeehs) of other schools of thought (like Ahlul Hadith & Ahlul Sunnah) are dealing with fiqh issues. They explain their fatawa in detail quoting Qur'an and relevant sources very well. Read a fatwa issued by scholars of al-Azhar, Darul Uloom or others, you would find a plenty of references mentioned therein besides logical arguments. Dr Yasir Qadhi, Zakir Naik, Mufti Menk and so many others deliver lectures for the general public. Why can't representatives of Sayyed al-Sistani (or he himself) do the same?

22 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

So when people deem him to be a great scholar, what sort of criteria are you looking for to be able to validate or invalidate their conclusions? Are you basing it on the number of books written? How many followers? Presence? Or in a more technical sense of their chosen area of expertise?

Expertise in his own field and preaching of the same to general public. His Tauzeeh al-Masail has no explanation. If he has written some other detailed work, unfortunately, that is not within access of the majority as not everyone is fluent in Arabic & Persian.

32 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I would say the best people to ask would be those who have completed or are studying their advanced Kharij studies in hawza. How can a layman evaluate the expertise of these maraja if they have not even acquainted themselves with the  science to an advanced level? It's like a high school student evaluating the works of a PHD student.

Please mention some of his worth-noting exceptional academic work. Ayatollah Abul Qasim al-Khoei, Ayatollah Asif Mohseni have numerous exceptional academic works to their credit. Ayatollah Mohseni tried to bring common man near to authentic hadith of Ahul Bayt by authoring works like Majma Ahadith Mautbar, Misharat al-Bihar and so on. What exceptional work has Sayyed al-Sistani (may Allah lenghten his life) done?

41 minutes ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Again, it's not a requirement nor necessary for a scholar to give public lectures. I know many scholars who prefer not to out of precaution and they prefer addressing issues in different ways to avoid misunderstandings. Some may not have the time simply due to such a demanding role where millions depend on their fatawa around the world. Do you realise how much pressure one is faced with for such a big task? Also not to disregard their personal spiritual responsibilities and their families.

Yes, it is not requirement to deliver public lectures. He could author books for service of common people & students of religion. Is there anything to his credit which makes him exceptional among the shia scholars?

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Prophet Muhammad is considered as the greatest prophet of any time.

What makes him the greatest prophet? Is that so because he was politically influential in mecca?

He has no presence to us (let alone social media). Perhaps, he has not delivered even a single public lecture in his whole life. If he had done so, it would have been available online in form of audio or video clip. So, he is not listened to as well contrary to other modern scholars of other schools of religion.

Did he ever even write any books? This is contrary to the other famous prophets in other religions who wrote books.

Yes, there are alot of his muqalids (followers). But it shocking to see that most of these muqalids do not know much about him except that he was the last prophet of Islam

His does not even have an official website to answer any of our questions.

He spoke arabic but did not know any other languages. Is it strange? How is the world suppose to have understood him? How is he a prophet if he only came to the arabs and not everyone else? What were they suppose to do?

An educated person living in this globalised era demands reasoning and argument for following religious verdicts. This is not an era of blind following. Modern prophets of other faiths (or their representatives) have considerable presence on social media. For example leaders of other faiths conducts online Q & A session regularly on their YouTube & Facebook link. They welcome any type of question & they explain wisdom behind religious Laws too. Why can't God in Islam have a prophet right now that does the same?

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37 minutes ago, VoidVortex said:

Because you don't need to talk to a marja for understanding things. There are many shia scholars out there that can answer questions, and even an app like the ask those who know app or ask a question on al-islam.org. If people want reasoning for arguments they can ask local scholars etc. or read books of fiqh if they know arabic or farsi. If the Marja were to include the reasoning behind their fatawa it would make the book of their fatawa extremely long. 

 

well honestly because their service is for answering people's fiqh questions. People can ask about the wisdom of Islamic laws from local scholars or even research it on al-islam.org where books exist talking about the philosophy of Islamic laws. 

 

this is because senior scholars in najaf identify him as the most learned of this time. Another thing which may have stood the sayed out, is the fatwa he had against ISIS in 2014, which was very influential in the fight back against ISIS. 

  • books do exist where he does explain some fiqh

الكتب الفتوائية - موقع مكتب سماحة المرجع الديني الأعلى السيد علي الحسيني السيستاني (دام ظله) (sistani.org)

more books in arabic 

also other books of fiqh by other scholars exist. They are just not translated in english.

Jurisprudence – Iqra Online

in the above link you can see how scholars approach fiqh, and what kind of reasoning they might do, the ghina one is very good for seeing how the process may be done

Great scholars have works to their credit for which they are known. Ayatollah Khoei wrote Muajm al-Rijal al-Hadith which stands unique till this day. Perhaps, he has no such work.

Minhaj as-Salheen is not available in English.

Please mention any of his representatives who explains reasoning behind his fatawa.

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1 minute ago, Ethics said:

Prophet Muhammad is considered as the greatest prophet of any time.

What makes him the greatest prophet? Is that so because he was politically influential in mecca?

He has no presence to us (let alone social media). Perhaps, he has not delivered even a single public lecture in his whole life. If he had done so, it would have been available online in form of audio or video clip. So, he is not listened to as well contrary to other modern scholars of other schools of religion.

Did he ever even write any books? This is contrary to the other famous prophets in other religions who wrote books.

Yes, there are alot of his muqalids (followers). But it shocking to see that most of these muqalids do not know much about him except that he was the last prophet of Islam

His does not even have an official website to answer any of our questions.

He spoke arabic but did not know any other languages. Is it strange? How is the world suppose to have understood him? How is he a prophet if he only came to the arabs and not everyone else? What were they suppose to do?

An educated person living in this globalised era demands reasoning and argument for following religious verdicts. This is not an era of blind following. Modern prophets of other faiths (or their representatives) have considerable presence on social media. For example leaders of other faiths conducts online Q & A session regularly on their YouTube & Facebook link. They welcome any type of question & they explain wisdom behind religious Laws too. Why can't God in Islam have a prophet right now that does the same?

Deplorable! You're comparing a scholar with Prophet (SAWW)! Completely illogical. This is not an academic/educational way to reply brother.

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47 minutes ago, VoidVortex said:

People can ask about the wisdom of Islamic laws from local scholars or even research it on al-islam.org where books exist talking about the philosophy of Islamic laws.

Brother, I don't know any local scholar who explains reasoning behind his fatawa. Do mention some scholars delivering lectures in English, Hindi or Urdu.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

Deplorable! You're comparing a scholar with Prophet (SAWW)! Completely illogical. This is not an academic/educational way to reply brother.

Where did I ever compare a prophet and a scholar. What is illogical? If you cannot answer my questions then we have a much larger issue here in your faith with your rationality than your original post.

Edited by Ethics
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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Ethics said:

Where did I ever compare a prophet and a scholar. What is illogical?

OP was regarding Ayatollah al-Sistani (may Allah lengthen his life). You replied copying my words doing find-replace. Isn't that comparing brother?

12 minutes ago, Ethics said:

If you cannot answer my questions then we have a much larger issue here in your faith with your rationality than your original post.

Your questions are not relevant to OP.

Read any seerah (biography) of the Prophet Muhammad (SAWW). He addressed people with logic & reasoning. Aima (عليه السلام) continued the same. Even Qur'an is full of logic & reasoning. See what does the Qur'an say about reasoning & logic:

"Surely the worst of beasts in God's sight are those that are deaf and dumb and do not reason." (al-Qur'an 8:22)

Prophet (SAWW) & Aima (عليه السلام) remained in touch with general people. They addressed them, answered their questions.

Social media is a way of remaining in touch with general people in this modern globalised era.

 

Kindly, re-read my posts. All of your questions are answered.

Edited by The Alchemist
typo
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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

OP was regarding Ayatollah al-Sistani (may Allah lengthen his life). You replied copying my words doing find-replace. Isn't that comparing brother?

Where in any statement of mine did I say a scholar is the same as a prophet? You are putting words in my mouth. I want you to answer my questions so that I can understand your faith and reasoning.

 

10 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

Your questions are not relevant to OP.

Oh they are very relevant, as I am literally using your own post to understand your own ideology. Not only that but this falls under the topic section as well.

 

10 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

Read any seerah (biography) of the Prophet Muhammad (SAWW). He addressed people with logic & reasoning. Aima (عليه السلام) continued the same. Even Qur'an is full of logic & reasoning. See what does the Qur'an say about reasoning & logic:

Biography? Aha, so you are telling me to believe in other peoples accord of this prophet named Muhammad even if I was not there and I do not even know who the authors of the biography is? How do you know he addressed people with logic and reasoning? As you are claiming so because some random people wrote a biography on him that says so? Who are even these writers whats their credentials? Are they in english even?

 

10 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

Prophet (SAWW) & Aima (عليه السلام) remained in touch with general people. They addressed them, answered their questions.

Social media is a way of remaining in touch with general people in this modern globalised era.

Remained* Not remains so why should I follow this religion called Islam with a prophet that is not even alive to answer my questions? He does not even have social media.

 

As you said above:

  

3 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

This is not an era of blind following.

 

Edited by Ethics
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4 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

:bismillah:

:salam:

Ayatollah Sayyed Ali al-Sistani (may Allah lengthen his life) is considered as the greatest living shia scholar of this time.

What makes him the greatest shia scholar? Is that so because he is politically influential in Iraq?

He has no presence in public (let alone social media). Perhaps, he has not delivered even a single public lecture in his whole life. If he had done so, it would have been available online in form of audio or video clip. So, he is not listened to as well contrary to other modern scholars of other schools of thoughts.

His books are also not well read by common men. His only mass translated book is Tauzeeh al-Masail (Islamic Laws). The book contain no rationale/discussion behind his fatawa. This is contrary to the famous ulema of Ahlul Hadith (al-Bani, al-Baz to say a few), who beside mentioning their verdict also persent their rationale/arguments in their fatawa too.

Yes, there are alot of his muqalids (followers). But it shocking to see that most of these muqalids do not know much about him except that he is a great scholar.

His official website al-Sistani.org is full of stuff like "permissible" and "not permissible" without explaining wisdom behind it most of the times. The website's "Send Question" session explicitly mentions that "We do not reply to purely scientific questions or those that are not of daily use or questions about the concept and wisdom [sic] of Islamic laws."

Some of his fatawa are somehow impracticable and hard to act upon. For instance, he says a Non-Muslim is najis (ritually impure), and to him ritual purity (tahaarat) is obligatory for touching Qur'an. So in his view, Non-Muslim can not touch Qur'an. Isn't strange? If he can't touch Qur'an, how can he get guidance from it? Someone may argue that a Non-Muslim can touch translation only copy of Qur'an. Now, let's suppose the Non-Muslim in question is among a million native Arabic speaking Non-Muslims living in Middle East & Central Asia, what should he do when the only language he knows is Arabic?

An educated person living in this globalised era demands reasoning and argument for following religious verdicts. This is not an era of blind following. Modern scholars (or their representatives) have considerable presence on social media. For example, Dr Zakir Naik (he mainly follows fatawa of reputed Ahlul Hadith scholars) conducts online Q & A session regularly on his YouTube & Facebook link. He welcomes any type of question & he explains wisdom behind Islamic Laws too. Why can't Sayyed al-Sistani or any of his well learned representative hold such sessions too?

I was going to take this post seriously until you threw Zakir Naik and his fake shows into the convo.

All I will say is that Sistani is famous enough that the Pope went to visit him in Iraq; perhaps we should have this conversation when the Pope visits Zakir Naik :D

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

I was going to take this post seriously until you threw Zakir Naik and his fake shows into the convo.

All I will say is that Sistani is famous enough that the Pope went to visit him in Iraq; perhaps we should have this conversation when the Pope visits Zakir Naik :D

Zakir Naik, Mufti Menk, Yasir Qadhi, etc

I mentioned Dr Zakir Naik just as an example of reaching public. Whether he is having fake shows or not is not relevant to the post. I did not mean to say that he is comparable with any Ayatollah. Zakir Naik represents Ahlul Hadith ulema (like al-Bani, al-Baz, etc) to the public.

Ayatollahs could have such representatives who can reach to public effectively.

PS. Pope is followed by millions of Catholics. Take a brief look. Zakir Naik (who delivers lectures on comparative religions including Christianity, Hinduism, etc) appears to be more famous positively or negatively.

Edited by The Alchemist
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Posted (edited)

honestly the equivalents to Zakir Naik, yasir qadhi etc. in our community are scholars like Sayed Ammar Nakshawani, the Qazwini family, sheikh azhar nasser and others. These scholars are reaching to the public. The representatives do give speeches from time to time especially in Iraq and even in the UK. You can even contact the representative by phoning their number or texting them, which is on najaf.org. But in terms of learning about the wisdom of X and Y etc. there are so many sources to consult, so many scholars, as I said before you can ask a scholar on the ask those who know app. 

If you are looking for the specific methodology of Sayed Sistani and how he reaches conclusions, then you would have to hit the books or something. Although I believe knowing his methodologies and how he derives X and Y ruling isn't useful, unless a person is studying to become ayatollah themselves. If you mean you want to know the reason behind a ruling as in why would God for example ban alcohol etc. then you can ask any scholar and see their answer or you could search up philosophy of Islamic laws on al-islam.org. Actually which one are you looking for dear brother, the first sentence in my second paragraph or the second one?

6 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

For instance, he says a Non-Muslim is najis (ritually impure), and to him ritual purity (tahaarat) is obligatory for touching Qur'an. So in his view, Non-Muslim can not touch Qur'an. Isn't strange

all muslim scholars agree that non-muslims(who are not part of ahlul kitab) are najis. A non-muslim can just search the Quran online so they'll be fine, they can get the arabic and english online without touching the book. And another brother even gave another answer here

 

4 hours ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

3Question: What is the stand on giving a non-Muslim the Qur`an for him or her to learn about the Qur`an and our faith if it is Arabic text?

Answer: Given the supposition made, if the Quran is not made Najis or disrespected by them, there would be no problem.
 
Besides this, he says that one can listen Quran if he is not in state of purity.
3 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

 

In the same way, I have not come across even a single hadith from Ahlul Bayt with a saheeh sanad which makes taharat obligatory for touching Qur'an. If you know any, do kindly share here.

Practically speaking, always doing wudhu as obligation before approaching Qur'an slightly pushes one away from acquiring knowledge from it. I would finish reading a book in say 15 days normally. But since touching Qur'an involves formalities like having wudhu would require atleast double the time to finish reading it. Respecting Qur'an by doing wudhu everytime is a good idea but formalities should not be that much strict to keep one away from Qur'an.

 I've never thought of the idea of doing wudhu before reading Quran as problematic. Also you only can't touch the writing but you can hold the book without wudhu. A person can do a wudhu in one minute if they are quick, and then start reciting. Or they can recite the Quran from their phone and read without wudhu. Also, to my knowledge I'm pretty sure just because a hadith isn't saheeh, that doesn't mean it will be rejected or not used for deriving laws. There are other grades. There are also hadiths you may have not read in the many books that exist and scholars like sayed Sistani consider those hadiths too. 

Edited by VoidVortex
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These are fiqh issues for them there should be a separate thread.

18 minutes ago, VoidVortex said:

all muslim scholars agree that non-muslims(who are not part of ahlul kitab) are najis. A non-muslim can just search the Quran online so they'll be fine, they can get the arabic and english online without touching the book. And another brother even gave another answer here

Non-Muslims are either Kuffar (those who are enemical to Islam) or zimmi (peace loving). What makes non-Muslim (zimmis) najis? Haven't you come across quotation of Imam 'Ali (عليه السلام) that says people are either your brothers or just humans like you? Haven't you heard the quote of Imam 'Ali (عليه السلام) that says blood of a zimmi is that of a Muslim? Isn't calling them najis inhumane, illogical, unscientific & un-Islamic?

Somebody told me Ayatollah Fadlallah did not consider Non-Muslims najis. I don't know whether this is true or not.

28 minutes ago, VoidVortex said:

Also you only can't touch the writing but you can hold the book without wudhu. A person can do a wudhu in one minute if they are quick, and then start reciting. Or they can recite the Quran from their phone and read without wudhu.

Qur'an, as a book, is printed in printing press just like any other book is printed. Same ink. Same paper. Arabic alphabet, like alphabet of any other language, has gone through evolution. If you read history of development of Arabic alphabet, you would see that humans made Alif the alif and ba the ba. Had they made Alif the ba and vice versa, it was quite possible; thus, Arabic just like any other language is man-made (ofcourse everything is made by Allah). It is pertinent to mention that Jibrael too did not bring verses in written form. To an uneducated person (who cannot read), Arabic is no different than say for example Chinese. So doing wudhu as an obligation for touching words of Qur'an does not seem to be logically correct as well.

For discussion on this topic, I had started this thread.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

Zakir Naik, Mufti Menk, Yasir Qadhi, etc

I mentioned Dr Zakir Naik just as an example of reaching public. Whether he is having fake shows or not is not relevant to the post. I did not mean to say that he is comparable with any Ayatollah. Zakir Naik represents Ahlul Hadith ulema (like al-Bani, al-Baz, etc) to the public.

Ayatollahs could have such representatives who can reach to public effectively.

oh dear God!!!

Sistani literally has vakeels (representatives) all over the world. Example - Sistani's representative in US is Syed Murtada Al-Kashmiri.

Zakir Naik is a fugitive from India who is banned in India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Canada and UK.

2 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

PS. Pope is followed by millions of Catholics. Take a brief look. Zakir Naik (who delivers lectures on comparative religions including Christianity, Hinduism, etc) appears to be more famous positively or negatively.

wow. Did you just write that Zakir Naik is more famous than the pope?

Zakir Naik: 36k twitter followers.
Pope Francis: 19m twitter followers.

I really can't take you seriously anymore. 'Signing out' from this thread.

Edited by ShiaMan14
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3 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

I was going to take this post seriously until you threw Zakir Naik and his fake shows into the convo.

All I will say is that Sistani is famous enough that the Pope went to visit him in Iraq; perhaps we should have this conversation when the Pope visits Zakir Naik :D

Brother @ShiaMan14, it seems like you've kinda phobia of Zakir Naik as you're continuously talking about him although this thread is not about him the least.

21 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

Zakir Naik is a fugitive from India who is banned in India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Canada and UK.

 

wow. Did you just write that Zakir Naik is more famous than the pope?

 

Zakir Naik: 36k twitter followers.
Pope Francis: 19m twitter followers.

Seems like you know much about Zakir Naik than the Ayatollah. Hence, you're talking about the guy again & again even though it is irrelevant to the thread.

Well. This is not a debate. Let Francis be more famous. Brother, judging someone's popularity on number of twitter followers is illogical.

32 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

I really can't take you seriously anymore. 'Signing out' from this thread.

Seriously.... Not Seriously... Seriously... Not seriously... Whatever brother! May Allah bless you.

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8 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

There is no verse in Qur'an which ordains wudhu or ritual purity as a condition for touching Qur'an. The verse (Surah al-Waqiya 56/79) that is often quoted to justify doing wudhu as obligation before touching Qur'an has a different context. If you go through any tafasir, the verse talks about loh-e-mahfooz (the preserved tablet) and none but pure (Jibraeel) can touch it i.e. shayateen (devils) cannot touch it.

It is not necessary that every law pertaining to shariah be thoroughly explained in Quran, it is for this that we refer to other sources of shariah if we cannot find any explicit answer to our question. The commentary on verse of Surah Waqia in shia maktab says that it's only pure ones who can understand Quran completely implying to 14 infallibles. 

 

8 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

In the same way, I have not come across even a single hadith from Ahlul Bayt with a saheeh sanad which makes taharat obligatory for touching Qur'an. If you know any, do kindly share here.

I am sorry to say brother, I do not have access to Hadiths that deal particularly with this issue. However, I can advise you that if you want one such Hadith, you can send query to the site of Ayotullah Makarem Shirazi as they always respond to such questions to repel any doubts because Ayotullahs certainly have access to much more books than we do. And, also I want to say that if you cannot find any sahih Hadith, it doesn't mean there isn't one rather it may be the case that you have access to limited resources.

 

8 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

Practically speaking, always doing wudhu as obligation before approaching Qur'an slightly pushes one away from acquiring knowledge from it. I would finish reading a book in say 15 days normally. But since touching Qur'an involves formalities like having wudhu would require atleast double the time to finish reading it. Respecting Qur'an by doing wudhu everytime is a good idea but formalities should not be that much strict to keep one away from Qur'an.

First of all, I have read that it is only disallowed to touch the words of Quran or script of writing and other than that it is allowed as per Ayotullah sistani. 

Secondly, every work is done with discipline, when we eat food, we wash hands, in past, people might have disagreed that why it is necessary but today we know it's benefits. Likewise, we may not know benefits of wudu now for reciting Quran, but we will certainly know it's benefit after we die and in Akhirah. 

Thirdly, wudu is simple, you can forgo mustahbat of wudu and do only wajib acts such as if your feet are already clean instead of going for complete wudu wash hands twice, wash face twice, wash both arms twice and then do masah. It won't take even 5 minutes, may be you will complete in 3 minutes.

Finally, as said earlier if you are reading Quran online or not touching the words or listening to it, you do not need wudu. Therefore, these formalties do not keep you away from Quran.

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4 hours ago, The Alchemist said:
5 hours ago, VoidVortex said:

 

Non-Muslims are either Kuffar (those who are enemical to Islam) or zimmi (peace loving). What makes non-Muslim (zimmis) najis? Haven't you come across quotation of Imam 'Ali (عليه السلام) that says people are either your brothers or just humans like you? Haven't you heard the quote of Imam 'Ali (عليه السلام) that says blood of a zimmi is that of a Muslim? Isn't calling them najis inhumane, illogical, unscientific & un-Islamic?

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 9 Surah Taubah verse 28:

28 O ye who believe! Truly the mushriks (polytheists) are Najas (impure, unclean, etc.); so let them not after this year of theirs approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty soon will Allah enrich you if He wills out of His bounty, for Allah is All-Knowing All-Wise.

Allah has declared disbelievers to be najis. The quotations of Imam Ali don't contradict this quran because those quotations are for the sake of treating people with respect, What makes a non-muslim najis is their kufr and disbelieving in Allah/ associating partners to him. This doesn't mean all non-muslims are monsters or we treat them inhumanely. We treat them with respect and in fact many of us have non-muslim friends. However the najis thing is important in fiqh. If a non-muslim(non-ahlul kitab) were to touch food with wetness its haram to eat that food(unless it can be washed). There are other situations too that apply.  

Quote

Qur'an, as a book, is printed in printing press just like any other book is printed. Same ink. Same paper. Arabic alphabet, like alphabet of any other language, has gone through evolution. If you read history of development of Arabic alphabet, you would see that humans made Alif the alif and ba the ba. Had they made Alif the ba and vice versa, it was quite possible; thus, Arabic just like any other language is man-made (ofcourse everything is made by Allah). It is pertinent to mention that Jibrael too did not bring verses in written form. To an uneducated person (who cannot read), Arabic is no different than say for example Chinese. So doing wudhu as an obligation for touching words of Qur'an does not seem to be logically correct as well.

dear brother you are applying your own logic, that is deficient and comes from a place of not knowing all things whilst Allah does know all things. The words of the Quran are created too, but we have been commanded to treat them with respect. If they are written in arabic, we have to treat it with a lot of respect and make sure to be in a state of spiritual purity before we touch it. Arabic is different to chinese because Allah has chosen arabic as the language to convey the Quran. The kaaba is just a building, made of bricks/stone and yet we must treat the kaabah with utmost respect as we have been commanded to because God has sanctified it. The Turbah of Imam Husayn is just Earth and yet its a major sin to do something that disrespects it(this comes from the ahadith of ahlulbayt). God has given certain things sanctity and we are forbidden from violating that sanctity. 

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My brothers and sisters  @VoidVortex @ShiaMan14 @Borntowitnesstruth engaging in these kinds of threads is futile. Lately there have been "shia" members, posting threads ingenuously with the false intention of "discussing" but already, as you can see by their OP and posts, have come to a conclusion just to spread misinformation. Someone in another thread was questioning the intentions and purpose of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) and Karbala already coming to a conclusion that it was a futile and meaningless act. It makes me laugh. Clearly this user just like the other user in the Imam Hussain thread, failed to answer my questions, called me illogical without any proof, and dismissed everything I said.

You do not need to go deep in their misinformation, just look at the foundation of their claims and their whole reasoning falls crumbling.

9 hours ago, Ethics said:

Prophet Muhammad is considered as the greatest prophet of any time.

What makes him the greatest prophet? Is that so because he was politically influential in mecca?

He has no presence to us (let alone social media). Perhaps, he has not delivered even a single public lecture in his whole life. If he had done so, it would have been available online in form of audio or video clip. So, he is not listened to as well contrary to other modern scholars of other schools of religion.

Did he ever even write any books? This is contrary to the other famous prophets in other religions who wrote books.

Yes, there are alot of his muqalids (followers). But it shocking to see that most of these muqalids do not know much about him except that he was the last prophet of Islam

His does not even have an official website to answer any of our questions.

He spoke arabic but did not know any other languages. Is it strange? How is the world suppose to have understood him? How is he a prophet if he only came to the arabs and not everyone else? What were they suppose to do?

An educated person living in this globalised era demands reasoning and argument for following religious verdicts. This is not an era of blind following. Modern prophets of other faiths (or their representatives) have considerable presence on social media. For example leaders of other faiths conducts online Q & A session regularly on their YouTube & Facebook link. They welcome any type of question & they explain wisdom behind religious Laws too. Why can't God in Islam have a prophet right now that does the same?

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4 minutes ago, Ethics said:

My brothers and sisters  @VoidVortex @ShiaMan14 @Borntowitnesstruth engaging in these kinds of threads is futile. Lately there have been "shia" members, posting threads ingenuously with the false intention of "discussing" but already, as you can see by their OP and posts, have come to a conclusion just to spread misinformation. Someone in another thread was questioning the intentions and purpose of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) and Karbala already coming to a conclusion that it was a futile and meaningless act. It makes me laugh. Clearly this user just like the other user in the Imam Hussain thread, failed to answer my questions, called me illogical without any proof, and dismissed everything I said.

You do not need to go deep in their misinformation, just look at the foundation of their claims and their whole reasoning falls crumbling.

You are right. No one in their right mind would compare Sistani to the fugitive Zakir Naik but it seems like brother @Alchemist is just a curious teenager looking for answers. One has to wonder about the IQ of a person who thinks Zakir Naik has more followers than the Pope. 

This is just a boy seeking knowledge so it would behoove us to fulfil his request.

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Guest Voidvortex(on my phone)

I disagree, I think it’s understandable that some people have different opinions or want to question there’s nothing wrong with that. Of course if misconceptions happen etc we can try our best to correct each other or have a healthy discussion.

in my humble opinion if an individual has an opinion that is very far away from mainstream or is struggling to understand the reasoning behind a ruling like abortion the best way to tackle this is through empathy. We can shove sources down someone’s throat but it may not work because we need to capture the heart of the individual. Many atheists can easily be humiliated in an intellectual debate but if you come from a place of empathy you become more likely to get them to accept Islam. Of course you would need patience but when we get frustrated, I guess we should pray for the individual to accept what we are preaching to them with their heart.

This however doesn’t mean that certain arrogant individuals should be entertained. OP isn’t arrogant nor is the brother who was talking about Karbala  but some people don’t want to know the truth. Of course even with the arrogant individuals we should keep our composure and not resort to insults. In my opinion threads that clearly will spiral into unhealthy debate and insults should be closed early. 

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8 hours ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Thirdly, wudu is simple, you can forgo mustahbat of wudu and do only wajib acts such as if your feet are already clean instead of going for complete wudu wash hands twice, wash face twice, wash both arms twice and then do masah. It won't take even 5 minutes, may be you will complete in 3 minutes.

Finally, as said earlier if you are reading Quran online or not touching the words or listening to it, you do not need wudu. Therefore, these formalties do not keep you away from Quran.

Someone wants to read & study Qur'an for whole day. If wudhu is not obligatory, he can remain in touch freely. Reading Qur'an while sleeping. Falling asleep while reading Qur'an. Waking up and yet reading Qur'an. Keeping Qur'an with oneself all the day so as to read it in free time. Making wudhu an obligation keeps all these away and one becomes restricted, he remains less in touch with Qur'an. He avoids reading it while sleeping. He maintains a distance from Qur'an.

My question is why obligatory when there is no verse about it, no authentic narration about it (do mention if there is any)?

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8 hours ago, VoidVortex said:

Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 9 Surah Taubah verse 28:

28 O ye who believe! Truly the mushriks (polytheists) are Najas (impure, unclean, etc.); so let them not after this year of theirs approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty soon will Allah enrich you if He wills out of His bounty, for Allah is All-Knowing All-Wise.

Allah has declared disbelievers to be najis. The quotations of Imam Ali don't contradict this quran because those quotations are for the sake of treating people with respect, What makes a non-muslim najis is their kufr and disbelieving in Allah/ associating partners to him. This doesn't mean all non-muslims are monsters or we treat them inhumanely. We treat them with respect and in fact many of us have non-muslim friends. However the najis thing is important in fiqh. If a non-muslim(non-ahlul kitab) were to touch food with wetness its haram to eat that food(unless it can be washed). There are other situations too that apply. 

Thanks for your input dear bro.

Please note:

1. This verse has a particular context.

2. This verse is addressing those mushriks who were either enemical to Islam or supporting those who were enemical to Islam. Why treating friendly zimmis and hostile mushriks equally?

3. This verse is more about spiritually impurity than the physical one. Physical impurity can be removed by doing ghusl (ritual bath) or wudhu. Spiritual impurity can be removed, if it can be, through rememberance of Allah and through enlightenment of Qur'an.

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7 hours ago, Ethics said:

My brothers and sisters  @VoidVortex @ShiaMan14 @Borntowitnesstruth engaging in these kinds of threads is futile. Lately there have been "shia" members, posting threads ingenuously with the false intention of "discussing" but already, as you can see by their OP and posts, have come to a conclusion just to spread misinformation. Someone in another thread was questioning the intentions and purpose of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) and Karbala already coming to a conclusion that it was a futile and meaningless act. It makes me laugh. Clearly this user just like the other user in the Imam Hussain thread, failed to answer my questions, called me illogical without any proof, and dismissed everything I said.

You do not need to go deep in their misinformation, just look at the foundation of their claims and their whole reasoning falls crumbling.

Brother @Ethics, I you find my posts unreasonable; you can opt not to read them let alone posting replies. You've right to disagree, but this is not the correct way of disagreeing. Purpose of ShiaChat is to discuss religion. If you're disagreeing, disagree but why are you asking others not to reply?

This is perhaps against the rules of ShiaChat. Brother, you're spoiling a healthy discussion. I think moderators and administrators should take note of this. @Hameedeh@Abu Nur@Mahdavist

 

7 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

You are right. No one in their right mind would compare Sistani to the fugitive Zakir Naik but it seems like brother @Alchemist is just a curious teenager looking for answers. One has to wonder about the IQ of a person who thinks Zakir Naik has more followers than the Pope. 

This is just a boy seeking knowledge so it would behoove us to fulfil his request.

Again Zakir Naik! :shock: Brother @ShiaMan14, with due respect, how many times should I tell you that OP has got nothing to do with Zakir Naik? I'm not a fan of him. I just quoted him as an example of a modern scholar. You don't find my posts logical, reasosable, etc. It's okay. You've a right to disagree, but this is not the correct way to express disagreement. In your last post, you said you're not gonna reply to this thread. That was fine, but you replied again chanting 'Zakir Naik Zakir Naik'.

PS. And I'm not a teenager.

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4 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

My question is why obligatory when there is no verse about it, no authentic narration about it (do mention if there is any)?

About no authentic narration, I am sure, you had not exhausted all resources. There are plenty of books from which Ayotullah's have derived the ruling, it was for this that I shared you Ayotullah Makarem Shirazi's website to ask from them. 

About why it's obligatory, the reason would most probably be that it's a divine book and not an ordinary book. It demands that reverence be shown to it because of it's higher status just as we dress ourselves in good clothes to meet some celebrity, it is required for us to do wudu before touching words of Quran.

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54 minutes ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

About no authentic narration, I am sure, you had not exhausted all resources. There are plenty of books from which Ayotullah's have derived the ruling, it was for this that I shared you Ayotullah Makarem Shirazi's website to ask from them.

Already sent. Waiting for answer.

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5 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

 

1. This verse has a particular context.

2. This verse is addressing those mushriks who were either enemical to Islam or supporting those who were enemical to Islam. Why treating friendly zimmis and hostile mushriks equally?

3. This verse is more about spiritually impurity than the physical one. Physical impurity can be removed by doing ghusl (ritual bath) or wudhu. Spiritual impurity can be removed, if it can be, through rememberance of Allah and through enlightenment of Qur'an.

salam dear brother,

Najis things » 8. Disbeliever (kāfir) - Islamic Laws - The Official Website of the Office of His Eminence Al-Sayyid Ali Al-Husseini Al-Sistani

sayed sistani's opinion

Why is a disbeliever ritually impure? Is it not insulting to a disbeliever to consider him impure? - Questions Archive - IslamQuest is a reference for Islamic questions on the internet

the above link answers your question about if its disrespectful or not. 

Regardless of your opinion dear brother make sure you stick to the ruling of your marja, even if you believe that it doesn't make sense, but there's nothing wrong with healthy debate and I'm willing to have a healthy discussion. 

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On 8/11/2022 at 5:25 AM, The Alchemist said:

There is no verse in Qur'an which ordains wudhu or ritual purity as a condition for touching Qur'an. The verse (Surah al-Waqiya 56/79) that is often quoted to justify doing wudhu as obligation before touching Qur'an has a different context.

Salam,

Touching the Quran is a different thing, a verse in Quran straight forward prohibits the Mushrikeen to enter into the masjid al-haram (which is the sacred place):

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِنَّمَا الْمُشْرِكُونَ نَجَسٌ فَلَا يَقْرَبُوا الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ بَعْدَ عَامِهِمْ هَٰذَا ۚ وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ عَيْلَةً فَسَوْفَ يُغْنِيكُمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ إِنْ شَاءَ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ {28}

[Shakir 9:28] O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.

This verse establishes the physical as well as metaphorical nijasah of mushrikeen. 

The verse of al-Waqia "la yamassuhu ilal mutahharoon" do have hidden meanings but it also has apparent meaning too. By which it is an obligatory precaution for every muslim to not "touch" the words of holy quran without being in the state of purity (i.e., either by means of wudu or either by ghusl).

Wassalam!!

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9 minutes ago, Cool said:

Salam,

Touching the Quran is a different thing, a verse in Quran straight forward prohibits the Mushrikeen to enter into the masjid al-haram (which is the sacred place):

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِنَّمَا الْمُشْرِكُونَ نَجَسٌ فَلَا يَقْرَبُوا الْمَسْجِدَ الْحَرَامَ بَعْدَ عَامِهِمْ هَٰذَا ۚ وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ عَيْلَةً فَسَوْفَ يُغْنِيكُمُ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ إِنْ شَاءَ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ {28}

[Shakir 9:28] O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise.

This verse establishes the physical as well as metaphorical nijasah of mushrikeen. 

The verse of al-Waqia "la yamassuhu ilal mutahharoon" do have hidden meanings but it also has apparent meaning too. By which it is an obligatory precaution for every muslim to not "touch" the words of holy quran without being in the state of purity (i.e., either by means of wudu or either by ghusl).

Wassalam!!

 

Please read my posts above.

5 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

1. This verse has a particular context.

2. This verse is addressing those mushriks who were either enemical to Islam or supporting those who were enemical to Islam. Why treating friendly zimmis and hostile mushriks equally?

3. This verse is more about spiritually impurity than the physical one. Physical impurity can be removed by doing ghusl (ritual bath) or wudhu. Spiritual impurity can be removed, if it can be, through rememberance of Allah and through enlightenment of Qur'an.

 

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14 minutes ago, The Alchemist said:

 

3. This verse is more about spiritually impurity than the physical one. Physical impurity can be removed by doing ghusl (ritual bath) or wudhu. Spiritual impurity can be removed, if it can be, through rememberance of Allah and through enlightenment of Qur'an.

is there a way you can prove it doesn't talk about physical impurity too.

Physical impurity being removed depends on what we are talking about. For example if it was something like excrement, urine or blood we only need to wash it off our bodies. if we are in a state of janabah yes we need to do ghusl too. But for a disbeliever, they are also treated according to nearly all jurisprudents as najis physically, so no amount of washing would purify them physically, and the only way for them to become pure is to become a christian, jew, or muslim

Edited by VoidVortex
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1 minute ago, The Alchemist said:

Please read my posts above.

 

I think I have duly read your before answering your query. 

Do you know the ruling for Muslims for "touching" the words of Quran?

Ruling 316. Touching the writing of the Qur’an – i.e. making a part of the body come into contact with the writing of the Qur’an – for someone who does not have wuḍūʾ is unlawful

https://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/2157/

Even we need to do wudu prior to touch the words of Quran. 

According to the holy Imams anything wet touched by an idolater should not be used unless properly purified. And I don't remember the exact hadith which prohibits the idolator to touch the Quran. 

Lastly, are you saying that the verse is declaring only those mushrikeen as najis who are enemies of Islam in any way?

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