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In the Name of God بسم الله

Matam (chest beating)

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Salam,

I have been searching for evidence of Matam but couldn’t find anything satisfactory.

there are some narrations of people who struck their head but once only at the time of the pain. 
but I couldn’t find anything from the Ahlulbayt, the 12 Imams, about hitting chests while mourning for Imam Husayn (عليه السلام).

what’s the evidence that Shi’a Ulama use to prove it is not wrong to hit one’s chest ?

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Doing matam is a protest against the oppression. And protesting is not wrong.

Hitting oneself is not prescribed. Protest could be done in any permissible lawful way.

As regards matam that leads to self flagellation, tatbir, etc, these things have got nothing to do with Islam. A number of shia ulema have issued fatawa against such matam.

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20 hours ago, Ali k said:

Salam,

I have been searching for evidence of Matam but couldn’t find anything satisfactory.

there are some narrations of people who struck their head but once only at the time of the pain. 
but I couldn’t find anything from the Ahlulbayt, the 12 Imams, about hitting chests while mourning for Imam Husayn (عليه السلام).

what’s the evidence that Shi’a Ulama use to prove it is not wrong to hit one’s chest ?

Matam could be proved through Quran where it is stated that when Hazrat Sarah heard that she is going to be a mother, she hit her face. 

This proves that hitting oneself in sorrow in such way that it does not cause a major injury is allowed. 

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20 hours ago, Ali k said:

Salam,

I have been searching for evidence of Matam but couldn’t find anything satisfactory.

there are some narrations of people who struck their head but once only at the time of the pain. 
but I couldn’t find anything from the Ahlulbayt, the 12 Imams, about hitting chests while mourning for Imam Husayn (عليه السلام).

what’s the evidence that Shi’a Ulama use to prove it is not wrong to hit one’s chest ?

Alaikas Salaam, 

From an authentic (Sahih) chain of At-Tusi from Abī Abdillāh(عليه السلام) who said: "Every kind of Jaza'a (i.e restlessness in grief) and weeping is Makruh except for Jaz'a and weeping on al-Husyan (عليه السلام)."

- Amali of At-Tusi.

 

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1 hour ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Matam could be proved through Quran where it is stated that when Hazrat Sarah heard that she is going to be a mother, she hit her face. 

This proves that hitting oneself in sorrow in such way that it does not cause a major injury is allowed. 

Sarah hit herself in emotional outbursts. It was an involuntary action. Besides, did she made it a custom to hit her face regularly?

Matam is not part of Shiaism. Ulema prescribe protesting in Muharram for sake of preaching what happened some 1300 years ago.

Unfortunately, the way matam is being done is doing more harm than good to Shiaism. It must be stopped, and some better way of protesting must be adopted.

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2 hours ago, The Alchemist said:

Sarah hit herself in emotional outbursts. It was an involuntary action. Besides, did she made it a custom to hit her face regularly?

Matam is not part of Shiaism. Ulema prescribe protesting in Muharram for sake of preaching what happened some 1300 years ago.

Unfortunately, the way matam is being done is doing more harm than good to Shiaism. It must be stopped, and some better way of protesting must be adopted. 

It is proved through the event of Hazrat Sarah (عليه السلام) that matam is an expression of grief and there came no verse after it to repudiate it.

Thus, if people do matam in such a way that it does not cause human injury, they can do it as it is meant to express their grief. 

Traditions in Islam are allowed as long as they do not violate anyone's right.

This is also in agreement with what Marjas say. 

Edited by Borntowitnesstruth
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I was thinking the same thing. Can Shiaism be separated from Matam/chest beating and tatbir?

I do not understand why does it have to be in coordination or why do they have to put on a show in organised events ... May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) forgive me. Maybe some of them do it out of real grief and sorrow but it looks so dramatic.

How did it come to be this way...? Why did people feel the need to take this on to the roads?

If one is grieving something they surely do not want to display themselves to the whole world.

I might be wrong in saying this but Shiaism has come to be only 2 things... Matam and majalis.

I have nothing against both of these practices but I have encountered people who would not believe that you are shia just because you do not do matam or attend majalis.

By attending majalis i mean everyone has their own way of remembering Imam Hussain AS and in the end it is all about praying and niyyah. For some reason if someone is not able to go to majalis and reads about all the historical facts of Karbala and listens to scholars online... they surely should not be forced to attend majalis...

And about Matam I know of some Sayed families who did not used to do matam but they do now...and all the people converting to shiaism start doing it as well just to be part of the culture otherwise you will not be accepted by the community.... and somehow all of them think this is some kind of ibadah...which it is if it comes naturally and one is not doing it for a show.

Following the teachings of Ahle Bait AS and believing them to be superior to all of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) creation, being pious... is what is important. Sadly religion has come to be so dramatic that we have accepted and have gotten used to certain customs and have left back and forgotten what is more important to build and keep faith.

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On 8/4/2022 at 2:21 PM, Sirius_Bright said:

Alaikas Salaam, 

From an authentic (Sahih) chain of At-Tusi from Abī Abdillāh(عليه السلام) who said: "Every kind of Jaza'a (i.e restlessness in grief) and weeping is Makruh except for Jaz'a and weeping on al-Husyan (عليه السلام)."

- Amali of At-Tusi.

 

So about his statement... he is saying you can hit yourself out of restlessness with hands or knives or swords... But what about holding them up already...being already prepared... and having these items and then coming out knowing that you will surely be using them.... that can not surely mean "hitting oneself if restless... or grieving "

It is more like -we have to hit ourselves so we have to get restless... its more like preparing yourself before hand for what you are about to do.... -

Hazrat Sarah hit her face in the Quran... but think if she was ready before listening to the news... that she knew that I will get this news so I have to hit myself... I do not know if I make sense.

But I think Imam Ali ASs religion is logical in all things... if you can not come up with a logical explanation or reasoning then there can be some doubts. 

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58 minutes ago, Ani said:

I was thinking the same thing. Can Shiaism be separated from Matam/chest beating and tatbir?

I do not understand why does it have to be in coordination or why do they have to put on a show in organised events ... May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) forgive me. Maybe some of them do it out of real grief and sorrow but it looks so dramatic.

How did it come to be this way...? Why did people feel the need to take this on to the roads?

If one is grieving something they surely do not want to display themselves to the whole world.

I might be wrong in saying this but Shiaism has come to be only 2 things... Matam and majalis.

I have nothing against both of these practices but I have encountered people who would not believe that you are shia just because you do not do matam or attend majalis.

By attending majalis i mean everyone has their own way of remembering Imam Hussain AS and in the end it is all about praying and niyyah. For some reason if someone is not able to go to majalis and reads about all the historical facts of Karbala and listens to scholars online... they surely should not be forced to attend majalis...

And about Matam I know of some Sayed families who did not used to do matam but they do now...and all the people converting to shiaism start doing it as well just to be part of the culture otherwise you will not be accepted by the community.... and somehow all of them think this is some kind of ibadah...which it is if it comes naturally and one is not doing it for a show.

Following the teachings of Ahle Bait AS and believing them to be superior to all of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) creation, being pious... is what is important. Sadly religion has come to be so dramatic that we have accepted and have gotten used to certain customs and have left back and forgotten what is more important to build and keep faith.

If you do not go in majalis and Muharram processions, how are you going to convey the message of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) to others? 

How many people could you reach out to on your individual level? May be to 4 or 5 people maximum but if you join a platform like shiachat, you could meet and inspire dozen or more either by tongue or just by your action. Majalis and Muharram processions are like such platforms.

Majalis and Muharram processions are institutions of preaching and they serve vital role in drawing the attention of people towards karbala and play much better role than a single person can on individual level. If you play your role in these, you will get rewarded immensely for this. 

As regards matam, it's expression of grief whether a person does it voluntarily or involuntarily, it expresses grief. When we do matam in procession, we remind people through this sad expression that injustice was done to Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) in karbala. And, since it plays positive role in sending message of grief and  there is no known quote of Ahlebait which it violates, it will be considered as permissible. Islam does not forces anyone to anything but it is for us to realize that in what way message of islam could be spread to many areas. Thus, it is for this that we consider it necessary that people should hold majalis and attend Muharram processions.

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3 hours ago, Ani said:

I was thinking the same thing. Can Shiaism be separated from Matam/chest beating and tatbir?

I do not understand why does it have to be in coordination or why do they have to put on a show in organised events ... May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) forgive me. Maybe some of them do it out of real grief and sorrow but it looks so dramatic.

Salam Matam/chest beating is totally different from Tatbir which in shia narration hitting face has been described as  worst type of mourning in similar fashion Tatbir is worst type of mourning which also it's a distrurbing innovation  which you can see all of refutation & banning it in   https://tatbir.org

 

Accordingly  chest beating is a voluntary mourning which there is no objection about it until it doesn't cause serious harm to body so therefor is up to you that you do it or not anyway as you have mentione best type of mourning is understanding it & standing against oppression which it needs a long process  anyway for commoners chest beating is fastest way to express their mourning & standing against injustice  which also it's an story which when a denier of incident of Ghadir Khum asked from  Allamh amini (رضي الله عنه) which " why you are doing too much show off & mourning in Muharam !?" which Allamah amini has responded to him that we do it due that we have been silent about incident of Ghadir Khumm  so therefore enemies of Amir al Muminin imam ali (عليه السلام) has denieded Ghadir Khum so therefore we do too much show off & mourning in month of Muharam in order to that enemies of Ahlulbayt can''t deny martyrdom & sacrifice of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) for reviving Islam in similar fashion which they have denied Ghadir Khum. 

Quote
"Become an ornament for us, do not be a disgrace for us."
~ Imam al-Sadiq (a) ~
"Look at the people of the Prophet's family. Adhere to their direction. Follow their footsteps because they would never let you out of guidance, and never throw you into destruction. If they sit down, you sit down, and if they rise up you rise up. Do not go ahead of them, as you would thereby go astray and go not lag behind them as you would thereby be ruined."
~ Imam Ali (a) ~

https://tatbir.org

3 hours ago, Ani said:

I might be wrong in saying this but Shiaism has come to be only 2 things... Matam and majalis.

It maybe true for commoners which due to their heavy involment to worldly life & too much disasters for shias especially in sunni dominated countries these two are only means of separation from their routin life & having fresh air in their faith anyway these two during means in two month of Muharram & safar  is guaranting their faith in rest of yeat until next months of Muharram & Safar 

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Imam Khomeini Quotes

It is Muharram and Safar that have kept Islam alive.

 

http://en.imam-khomeini.ir/en/n21664/It-is-Muharram-and-Safar-that-have-kept-Islam-alive-

Quote

The months of Muharram and Safar have passed on, and as Imam Khomeini (R) says, it is the months of Muharram and Safar that have protected Islam.

In this Imam Husayn (A) special, CubeSync is proud to present an exposition on some excerpts of Imam Husayn's Dua 'Arafa, which were recited by Imam Husayn (A) on his way to Karbala. A journey which led to Imam Husayn's martyrdom.

https://islamicpulse.tv/ivideo/how-do-you-treat-allah-imam-husayn-a-special-cubesync-english/

 

 

Quote

Ayatollah al-Musawi added, “In his book al-Ghadir, Allamah Abdul-Husayn Amini [1902-1970] ‎‎wrote in a chapter entitled ‘Our Tradition and Path’ that Sunni scholars have mentioned ‎‎narrations about holding mourning ceremonies for Imam al-Husayn and even the Prophet ‎‎Muhammad held mourning ceremonies in the homes of some of his wives for Imam al-‎‎Husayn.” ‎

https://en.rasanews.ir/en/news/446829/mourning-in-muharram-is-a-good-tradition-‎

 

On 8/4/2022 at 12:52 PM, Ibn-e-Muhammad said:

It is not from the sunnah of the Ahl al-Bayt (s) to hit oneself in an organized congregational manner, neither in a majlis nor within a public gathering. Any solitary examples of the wife of Ibrahim (a) crying and striking her face or the ladies accompanying Imam Hussain (a) hitting their heads and throwing dust are meant to be understood as singular, live reactions in face of extraordinary sorrows. To turn their natural human reactions into contemporary grouped events akin to religious coteries and cults, where the very image of one's religion is now wailing and self-harm, is probably enough to repel anyone away from your religion. 

Shi'a 'ulema have not prohibited this. At most, they have had to prohibit blood letting forms of self-harm, and even that is not a consensus. I assume the reason is because due to the fact that these assemblies of mourning did not exist in such manners during the lifetime of the Imams (a), they did not really speak to them - not explicitly at least. These are personal gestures of mourning, just at the very individual level, and there isn't enough ground to argue for the prohibition of lamenting in these ways. 

Anyway we must consider that non ahl al-Bayt have (عليه السلام) & their shias have not had enough freedom & privilage to do it during lifetime of Ahlul bayt until major occultation of Imam Mahdi (aj)  which our Imams have advised their shias to mourn on Imam Hussain(عليه السلام) in in excuse of mourning for their death or mix it with their mourning for deceased ones in order to that Ummayids & abbasids can't  stop it which only after too much weakening of Abbasids & uprising of  shia rulers of Buyid dynasti shias could do it in public & hold public Majlis for imam Huassain (عليه السلام) any way it needs observing  it by wise people especially shia scholars which people don't lose real reason of  mourning for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) due to too much focusing on rituals also stand agains disturbing innovations likewise Tatbir.

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Chest-Beating in Religious Laws

According to Shi'ite scholars, different kinds of mourning ceremonies for Twelver Imams (a) are recommended. In addition, earlier Shi'ite scholars issued fatwas about these rituals and they also performed chest-beating in ceremonies.

Ayatollah al-Khoei regarded every mourning ceremony and Nawha Khani about Ahl al-Bayt (a) as recommended. Also other Shi'ite marja's accepted this fatwa as they confirmed it.[9]

However, Al-Sayyid Muhammad Husayn Fadl Allah regarded chest-beating Haram (forbidden) while some other marja's including Ayatollah Khamenei and Ayatollah Makarem Shirazi stated to avoid taking clothes off in the time of chest-beating; especially in public and in the presence of women.[10]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Chest-beating

Al-Shaykh al-Saduq (the truthful scholar) mentions:
Muhammad ibn Ali Majiluyeh said: Ali ibn Ibrahim narrated to us from his father from al Rayyan ibn Shabib, He said: I came into the presence of al Reza ((عليه السلام)) on the first day of Muharram. 

Mourning for Imam Hussein ((عليه السلام))

Quote

 

O son of Shabib! If you were to cry over anything, then cry over Hussain ibn Ali ibn Abi Talib ((عليه السلام)), for he was slaughtered like the ram is slaughtered. And eighteen men from the people of his house, the like of whom are not to be found on the earth, were murdered with him. The seven heavens and the earths wailed over his killing. Four thousand of the angels descended toward the earth but they found that he had been murdered. So they shall remain disheveled, dusty till the Mahdi rises; then they will be from his helpers. And their slogan is: Vengeance for the blood of Husain!
- O son of Shabib! My father narrated to me from his father from his grandfather ((عليه السلام)): Verily when my grandfather, Hussain ((عليه السلام)) was killed, the sky rained down blood and red dust.
- O son of Shabib! If you wept over Hussain ((عليه السلام)) to the extent that your tears came onto your cheeks, Allah will forgive all of your sins which you have committed, minor or major, little or excessive.

https://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7564:mourning-for-imam-hussein-a-s&catid=865&Itemid=2159

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56 minutes ago, Ani said:

do not understand why does it have to be in coordination or why do they have to put on a show in organised events ...

Read the narrations of Ahlul Bayt عليهم السلام، why they organized majalis? Why they gathered people and told them the story what happened in Karbala? Why they encouraged people to hold majalis for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام)? Why the majalis are so organized? Starting with a verse of Quran or hadith then comes the tafseer or fada'il and the masa'ib in the end? Why it is advised that if eyes are not shedding the tears than at least make your face as you are crying? 

Why poets have written nohay or marsiya for them? Why even after 1400 years it is needed to mention in public what was happened in Karbala? What benefit humanity as a whole and an individual would get from shedding tears for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام)? 

Remember, these blessed personalities are the ones who hold more right on our souls than us. 

 

النَّبِيُّ أَوْلَى بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ أَنفُسِهِمْ

The fortunate ones are those who sacrificed everything for their Imam. We on the other hand, after 1400 years of Karbala, still feel the pain and wish that:

يا ليتني كنت معهم فأفوز فوزا عظيما 

Even this statement is commanded by Imam (عليه السلام), that everyone should say this if he wish to get the reward of the ones who martyred along with Imam Hussain (عليه السلام):

يا بن شبيب، إن سرك أن يكون لك من الثواب مثل ما لمن استشهد مع الحسين عليه السلام فقل متى ما ذكرته: " يا ليتني كنت معهم فأفوز فوزا عظيما "

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1552_العوالم-الإمام-الحسين-ع-الشيخ-عبد-الله-البحراني/الصفحة_593

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On 8/3/2022 at 9:25 PM, Ali k said:

have been searching for evidence of Matam but couldn’t find anything satisfactory.

Search for the istighatha of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) when he said:

هل من ناصر ينصرنا, هل من معين يعيننا

هل من ذاب عن حرم رسول الله 

هل من موحد يخاف الله فينا

The moment you realize who is saying this and the moment you find yourself unable to reach to the help of this blessed personality, your eyes should start shedding tears and your hands would rise up to your head or your chest. 

If this is not happening with you, remember Imam's 6month old son who threw himself out of cradle after listening to this istighatha.

This is Hussain (عليه السلام). 

If you find crying for him strange, better learn more about him, who is Hussain (عليه السلام)?

The throat where Shimr (L) hit his knife, was the place where Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) used to kiss. 

If you want to understand self harm, go and ask from the father of Prophet Yusuf (عليه السلام), why did he cried so much for his lost son that he lost his sight? His sons even warn him, as the verse of Quran says:

قَالُوا تَاللَّهِ تَفْتَأُ تَذْكُرُ يُوسُفَ حَتَّىٰ تَكُونَ حَرَضًا أَوْ تَكُونَ مِنَ الْهَالِكِينَ

 12:85] They said: By Allah! you will not cease to remember Yusuf until you are a prey to constant disease or (until) you are of those who perish.

What was said by the father of Prophet Yusuf a s, is the voice of every mo'min while crying & beating chest for Imam Hussain a s:

قَالَ إِنَّمَا أَشْكُو بَثِّي وَحُزْنِي إِلَى اللَّهِ 

(He said: I only complain of my grief and sorrow to Allah,)

We too complaint of our grief & sorrow to Allah s w.t. The One who obligated on us the love of Ahlul Bayt عليهم السلام:

قُل لَّا أَسْأَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْرًا إِلَّا الْمَوَدَّةَ فِي الْقُرْبَى

42:23

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3 hours ago, Ani said:

he is saying you can hit yourself out of restlessness with hands or knives or swords... But what about holding them up already...being already prepared... and having these items and then coming out knowing that you will surely be using them.... that can not surely mean "hitting oneself if restless... or grieving

We all attend same set of Majalis/Azadari every year and atmosphere of some majlis/Azadari on the day of Ashur is very sorrowful and Azadar are already grief-stricken. Since, we all know that this would be our state, we are prepared. 

It's difficult to explain more than this. We should not be nitpicking in Azadari of Aba Abdillah (عليه السلام). 

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1Question: Is it permissible to wail and cry loudly as well as beat one’s head and face in mourning for Imam Hussein, peace be upon him?
Answer: There is no problem in it .
 
2Question: Is mourning for Imam Hussain and other Infallibles ((عليه السلام).) recommended?
Answer: Yes, it is recommended and God will reward those who sincerely revive their memories and commemorate their martyrdom.
 
3Question: I have a question about matam (Azadari) and the manner our people are holding Muharram rituals, what is our purpose of holding these events?
Answer: The main purpose of mourning during 'Ashura, is to respect and revive the symbols of religion and remember the suffering of Imam Hussain ((عليه السلام).), his companions, and his uprising to defend Islam and prevent the destruction of the religion by Bani Umayyad dynasty. These rites must be done in such a way that in addition to serving that purpose, it draws the attention of others to these lofty goals.
 
4Question: Is it permissible to jog (run at a steady gentle pace) in mourning processions which are taken out into the streets to commemorate the martyrdom of Imam Hussein, peace be upon him?
Answer: There is no problem in it per se .
 
5Question: I would like to ask your opinion about taking off the shirts in mourning processions. Is it permissible for men to take off their shirts while beating their chests?
Answer: There is no problem in it.
 
6Question: What is the Islamic law on wearing full black during the months of Muharram and Safar? Is it recommended or abominable (makrooh)?
Answer: It is good to wear black and it being abominable (Makrooh) is not proved.
 
7Question: Is there any objection to people holding up chandeliers or flags ahead of the mourning processions?
Answer: There is no objection in it.
 
8Question: Over the past thirty years, we have been placing candles in our local mosque as a sign of grief and lamentation. Can we give lamps to the mosque instead of burning candles?
Answer: There is no problem in it.
 
9Question: What is the philosophy of Azadari (mourning and lamentation) for Imam Husain?
Answer: There is no doubt that the tragedy of Kerbala, when ascribed to the killers, is a criminal and terrible act. However when ascribed to Husain (A) himself, it represents a conscious confrontation and a courageous resistance for a sacred cause. The whole nation had failed to stand up to Yazid. They had succumbed to his will, and deviation and regression towards the pre-Islamic ways were increasing.
Passiveness by Husain (A) in this situation would have meant the end of Islam as we know it. Thus Husain (A) took upon himself the responsibility of the whole nation. The greatest tragedy was that one who stood up for the noblest of causes, the defense of Islam, was cut down in so cruel a manner.
It is for this reason that the sacrifice of Husain (A) is commemorated annually throughout the Muslim world. Our sorrow never abates as we relive the tragedy.
The commemoration of Ashura on the 10th of Muharram every year serves to remind us of the sacrifices of the family of the Prophet (S). It also makes us aware of the people, then and now, who tried to destroy Islam and the family of the Prophet (S) and all that they stood for - as well as those who watched, listened and did nothing.

Many Questions are answered in the above Q&A

https://www.sistani.org/english/qa/01125/

If you stop Majlis Matam, Yazid would become raziallah just as Qatil-e-Zehra (sa) is. 

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3 hours ago, Ani said:

I was thinking the same thing. Can Shiaism be separated from Matam/chest beating and tatbir?

Yes since neither of these are from the Quran or the sunnah of the AhlulBayt. 

You are correct that some people seem to think these are essential components of the 'aza of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) but in reality neither was practiced by them or their followers. 

Therefore one can perfectly perform the 'aza without either of these acts,  since this is essentially what the aimmah (عليه السلام) and their followers did. 

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32 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

but in reality neither was practiced by them or their followers

Well, Brother are you sure of what you are saying here?

In the following article, you will find at least two references of slapping on cheeks. One of them mentioning Syeda Zainab (عليه السلام):

http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa7443#

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8 minutes ago, Cool said:

In the following article, you will find at least two references of slapping on cheeks. One of them mentioning Syeda Zainab (عليه السلام):

And here is the Arabic text of this reference from Kitab Al-Irahaad:

وأما عمتي فإنها سمعت ما سمعت وهي امرأة ومن شأن النساء الرقة والجزع، فلم تملك نفسها أن وثبت تجر ثوبها (3) وإنها لحاسرة، حتى انتهت إليه فقالت:
وا ثكلاه! ليت الموت أعدمني الحياة، اليوم ماتت أمي فاطمة وأبي علي وأخي الحسن، يا خليفة الماضي وثمال الباقي........... ثم لطمت وجهها وهوت إلى جيبها فشقته وخرت مغشيا عليها.

 

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1295_الإرشاد-الشيخ-المفيد-ج-٢/الصفحة_93#top

"My aunt Zaynab said: "My brother has prepared himself for death!! Your readiness for death has hurt my heart and has taken away my patience".  She then slapped herself in the face and rended her collar and fainted and fell to the ground"

 

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And here is the chain of 2nd reference mentioned in Islam quest article:

 - علي بن إبراهيم، عن محمد بن عيسى، عن مسافر

Here is the Arabic text:

فصرخت ولطمت وجهها وشقت جيبها وقالت:
مات والله سيدي، فكفها وقال لها لا تكلمي بشئ ولا تظهريه، حتى يجيئ الخبر إلى الوالي، 

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/الكتب/1122_الكافي-الشيخ-الكليني-ج-١/الصفحة_430#top

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2 hours ago, Cool said:

Well, Brother are you sure of what you are saying here?

Yes brother,  as I mentioned before the practice of chest beating and tatbir were not part of the 'aza of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) during the time of the aimmah.

 

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Salam,

This is my thought.

We are a human with emotion.  All emotions are likely to exhibit certain behavior reactions..laughing, angry, crying, crazy, sadness  fear, bravery,  and so on.  It  happens naturally.  The control to emotional reactions will depend on our mental preparation. 

When a person listens to very details on what happened in Karbala, whether through reading or majalis or other means, he/she is very likely be moved emotionally.

Different persons react differently when they are moved emotionally.  It difficult to control a person reactions when he/she is in the state  deep sorrow.  Uncontrolled emotionally burst can be dangerous. 

 

So we know, in the case of listening to 'aza of Imam Hussein

1.  There is no way to stop a person emotional reactions when he/she is immersed into intense sorrow and because the haq is oppressed through injustice.

2. There were attempts to prepare / control mourners emotional busrt (based on past experiences) in an organized ways when in majalis to remember 'aza  of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) is underway.  Because each person reacted differently, hitting the chest was acceptable to majority up to today.

3.  Scholars of Islam did not try to stop the emotional outburst of when the haq is violated through unjustice, specically for all cases of Imams (عليه السلام).  It is our fitrah or human nature to react when we are emotionally touched.  Just ensure the emotional outbursts don't harm the image or essence of Islam through mental preparation and organized way. Even then, it is difficult to control every individual emotional reactions.

 

My conclusion, Islam does not against emotional reactions because it is human nature.  Just we need to learn on controlling it so Islam is protected and no harm to our own self and society.

Wallahualam.

Edited by layman
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Guest Guest Muharam
17 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Yes since neither of these are from the Quran or the sunnah of the AhlulBayt. 

You are correct that some people seem to think these are essential components of the 'aza of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) but in reality neither was practiced by them or their followers. 

Therefore one can perfectly perform the 'aza without either of these acts,  since this is essentially what the aimmah (عليه السلام) and their followers did. 

While it is possible to perform aza without these acts, that doesn't mean chest beating was not performed in the times of the Imams (عليه السلام) and even before their time. 

Historical narrations have mentioned the slapping of the faces done by the Fatimiyaat (رضي الله عنه) and the Imams (عليه السلام) also commanded their followers to engage in jaza (extreme grief) when remembering Imam Al-Husayn (عليه السلام) - and chest beating (latm) has been mentioned by some as a form of jaza.

There is a narration in Al-Kafi, that defines chest beating as a form of jaza - and in fact it is considered a bad thing for anyone to engage in jaza over the death of even their loved ones - but with Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) there is an exception.

Take in mind I am not saying that the companions of the Imams (عليه السلام) engaged in latm the same way the Shi'a do today, with a poet and forming lines and synchronized chest beating in unison, but it is quite possible that they did engage in this practice in one form or another.

And the authentic hadith which calls for jaza on Imam Al-Husayn (عليه السلام) is why the Fuqaha have called it mustahab. Walsalam.

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What is the Islamic law about taking off one's shirt and beating the chest in mourning for Imam Hussein (a)?
http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/fa10818


Is there any reason for the permissibility of chest beating and self-hitting of some Muslims that is done in Muharram and other times?
http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/fa12865


Is chest beating for Imam Hussein an act endorsed by Islam?
http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/fa7443


What is the importance and philosophy of mourning for Imam Hussein ((عليه السلام).)?
http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/fa2518


What is the reason for mourning for Imam Hussein ((عليه السلام))?
http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/fa352

Edited by Ethics
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