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In the Name of God بسم الله

Different types of hadith and their value

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Bismillah

Salaam

Could a fatwa be derived from a dhaeef hadith? What are different types of hadith and what is their value? How do shia usul see muwathiq, hasan, etc types of hadith? Are they hujjah? If yes, in what cases?

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No reply?

Enlightment is required from senior members having knowledge of hadith.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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@Zainuu

If a hadith says "Allah is one", why do you need to quote when it is clear in Surah al-Ikhlaas that God is one. You refer to hadith when you need some details which is not in Qur'an.

Take for example, Qur'an says offer salaat. Does it mention how many rakaats for Fajr? Therefore, you refer to hadith for as to how many rakaats to offer as obligation in it.

If only matn was meaningful in hadith, then what was need of qawl from Aima (عليه السلام). One could make analysis of any literature by comparing it with Qur'an. It is sanad through which one comes to know whether that matn (content) comes from Aima (عليه السلام) or not. If sanad has fabricators, liars as narrators, it means the matn comes from them not from Aima (عليه السلام). Such ahadith might turn out to be deluding. Would you believe in a hadith if it says offer 10 rakaats as fardh (obligation) in Fajr? Apparently, such a narration does not contradict Qur'an and is reliable from what seems to be your logic.

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Salam brother.

Brother these kind of questions can't be answered by most of people because they are super technical questions and most of us ( Or maybe only me ) have no knowledge of ilm-ul-hadeeth.

And the answer may vary like you asked can a fatwa be issued over weak hadith?

1. What is definition of weak hadith? 

There are plenty of different approaches or methodologies that are different for different scholars ( present era ). And as for classical scholars, i dont think chains and narrators were that relevant or if they were, they may have had different approaches as well. 

It gets complex for some, and hard for ordinary people to spare that much time to study science of hadeeth. Also most of shias ( subcontinent / Europe ) don't know arabic so they honestly can't proceed even if they wanted to.

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On 8/15/2022 at 6:04 PM, The Alchemist said:

 

 

@Zainuu

If a hadith says "Allah is one", why do you need to quote when it is clear in Surah al-Ikhlaas that God is one. You refer to hadith when you need some details which is not in Qur'an.

Take for example, Qur'an says offer salaat. Does it mention how many rakaats for Fajr? Therefore, you refer to hadith for as to how many rakaats to offer as obligation in it.

If only matn was meaningful in hadith, then what was need of qawl from Aima (عليه السلام). One could make analysis of any literature by comparing it with Qur'an. It is sanad through which one comes to know whether that matn (content) comes from Aima (عليه السلام) or not. If sanad has fabricators, liars as narrators, it means the matn comes from them not from Aima (عليه السلام). Such ahadith might turn out to be deluding. Would you believe in a hadith if it says offer 10 rakaats as fardh (obligation) in Fajr? Apparently, such a narration does not contradict Qur'an and is reliable from what seems to be your logic.

مَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ عَبْدِ الله بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْحَكَمِ عَنْ أَبَانِ بْنِ عُثْمَانَ عَنْ عَبْدِ الله بْنِ أَبِي يَعْفُورٍ قَالَ وَحَدَّثَنِي حُسَيْنُ بْنُ أَبِي الْعَلاءِ أَنَّهُ حَضَرَ ابْنَ أَبِي يَعْفُورٍ فِي هَذَا الْمَجْلِسِ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) عَنِ اخْتِلافِ الْحَدِيثِ يَرْوِيهِ مَنْ نَثِقُ بِهِ وَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ لا نَثِقُ بِهِ قَالَ إِذَا وَرَدَ عَلَيْكُمْ حَدِيثٌ فَوَجَدْتُمْ لَهُ شَاهِداً مِنْ كِتَابِ الله أَوْ مِنْ قَوْلِ رَسُولِ الله (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه) وَإِلا فَالَّذِي جَاءَكُمْ بِهِ أَوْلَى بِهِ.

2. Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from ‘Abdallah ibn Muhammad from Ali ibn al-Hakam from Aban ibn ‘Uthman from ’Abdallah ibn abu Ya‘fur who has said the following. “In a meeting where ibn abi Ya‘fur was also present I asked Imam abu ‘Abdallah ((عليه السلام).) about the differences in Hadith which is narrated from people whom we trust and yet from other people we do not trust.” The Imam replied, “If you come across a Hadith and you find evidence in the holy Quran to support it or in Hadith of the holy Prophet (you may follow it), otherwise, you follow the one that has come to you through the trustworthy narrator.”

Shaykh Baqir al-Behbudi: صحيح - Sahih al-Kafi (11/ 1)

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On 8/18/2022 at 8:30 PM, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

مَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ عَبْدِ الله بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ الْحَكَمِ عَنْ أَبَانِ بْنِ عُثْمَانَ عَنْ عَبْدِ الله بْنِ أَبِي يَعْفُورٍ قَالَ وَحَدَّثَنِي حُسَيْنُ بْنُ أَبِي الْعَلاءِ أَنَّهُ حَضَرَ ابْنَ أَبِي يَعْفُورٍ فِي هَذَا الْمَجْلِسِ قَالَ سَأَلْتُ أَبَا عَبْدِ الله (عَلَيْهِ السَّلام) عَنِ اخْتِلافِ الْحَدِيثِ يَرْوِيهِ مَنْ نَثِقُ بِهِ وَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ لا نَثِقُ بِهِ قَالَ إِذَا وَرَدَ عَلَيْكُمْ حَدِيثٌ فَوَجَدْتُمْ لَهُ شَاهِداً مِنْ كِتَابِ الله أَوْ مِنْ قَوْلِ رَسُولِ الله (صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِه) وَإِلا فَالَّذِي جَاءَكُمْ بِهِ أَوْلَى بِهِ.

2. Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from ‘Abdallah ibn Muhammad from Ali ibn al-Hakam from Aban ibn ‘Uthman from ’Abdallah ibn abu Ya‘fur who has said the following. “In a meeting where ibn abi Ya‘fur was also present I asked Imam abu ‘Abdallah ((عليه السلام).) about the differences in Hadith which is narrated from people whom we trust and yet from other people we do not trust.” The Imam replied, “If you come across a Hadith and you find evidence in the holy Quran to support it or in Hadith of the holy Prophet (you may follow it), otherwise, you follow the one that has come to you through the trustworthy narrator.”

Shaykh Baqir al-Behbudi: صحيح - Sahih al-Kafi (11/ 1)

This is an incorrect translation.

The Imam (عليه السلام) is saying that if you aren't able to find a witness (shahid) for that person's hadith from the Qur'an or the hadith of the Prophet (saww), then the person who narrated it is more suited/befitted of following it - in essence, keep it with him.

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On 7/28/2022 at 11:17 AM, The Alchemist said:

Bismillah

Salaam

Could a fatwa be derived from a dhaeef hadith? What are different types of hadith and what is their value? How do shia usul see muwathiq, hasan, etc types of hadith? Are they hujjah? If yes, in what cases?

Sorry. Are you asking how it actually works amongst the “orthodoxy” of scholarship? Or are you asking how people think it should work? Or both?

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1 hour ago, kadhim said:

Sorry. Are you asking how it actually works amongst the “orthodoxy” of scholarship? Or are you asking how people think it should work? Or both?

I'm asking how scholars see these.

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I randomly found this which somehow answers OP, sharing it here so that those who read the OP may read this too:

Quote

Preliminary Points

1. The Hujiyyah (probative force) of a Khabar Wahid (solitary report) is predicated upon several conditions:

(a) Reliability of the chain, such that its narrators be truthful people. Or there be an internal or external (to the Hadith itself) Qarina (indicator) that leads to Itmi’nan (personal confidence) with regards to the Hadith’s authenticity. And such indicators are few and far between in our times, furthermore, the concept is wholly subjective as what leads to confidence for one does not do for the other.
(b) Should not contradict the intellect and basic common sense.
(c) Should not contradict the Qur’an.
(d) Should not contradict the established Sunnah (Normative model of the prophet).
(e) Should not be contradicted with contrarian narrations, and some have added the condition that it should not contradict the famous opinion, but the latter is unacceptable to al-Muhsini both in general principle and in this specific instance.

In case where a weak (dhaeef) hadith has to do something it is something like this:

Quote

Al-Muhsini makes it clear that he will not include a Hadith with weak chain except very rarely when it serves a purpose. He will be sure to also include a disclaimer about its weakness whenever he does so.

These are the views of esteemed Ayatollah Sheikh Asif Mohseni (may Allah be pleased with him). Other experts in ilm-ul-hadith may have differing opinions.

I request knowledgable members of this forum to share views of other experts in the field.

Edited by The Alchemist
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