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In the Name of God بسم الله

Is Hajj ruined by new Saudi rules?

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Hajj: UK pilgrims turned away at airports as lottery chaos continues

British travellers denied flights bound for Saudi Arabia, despite paying tens of thousands on Hajj packages under new lottery system
Quote

Last week, Saudi Arabia's Hajj ministry announced that Muslims from Europe, Australia and the Americas would need to apply to attend Hajj, which is taking place between 7-12 July this year, through a random draw on the government-backed Motawif website.

Anyone who has prepaid to do the pilgrimage with a tour operator has been urged to request a refund.

The draw is the only way that Muslims from western countries can participate in this year’s Hajj.

There are three types of packages that western pilgrims can apply for: silver, gold and platinum. 

Quote

The random lottery launched on Friday, and crashed briefly due to high demand. 

Here’s everything you need to know about the new ballot system. 

Who can apply?

The random draw is applicable to all countries in North America, South America, non-Muslim majority countries in Europe, Australia and New Zealand. 

All applicants must be under the age of 65, and must have completed two doses of the Covid-19 vaccination. Those attending must submit a negative PCR test within 72 hours of departing to Saudi Arabia. 

Only those who haven’t performed Hajj within the last five years are eligible to enrol.

The draw is the only way that Muslims from western countries can participate in this year’s Hajj. Anyone who has prepaid to do the pilgrimage with a tour operator has been urged to request a refund.

 

Quote

In other Muslim majority countries around the world, the system of selection varies.

In Pakistan for example, 60 percent of places are granted based on private tour operators, while 40 percent of places are organised by a Pakistani government scheme that involves a computerised ballot. 

In Turkey, the 37,770 people attending this year were chosen via an application system which prioritised those who have never been. Many Turks have been applying for several years, if not decades, waiting for their names to be chosen.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hajj-lottery-explained-random-draw-western-pilgrims

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Hajj: UK pilgrims turned away at airports as lottery chaos continues

Hajj 'lottery' explained: The random draw for western pilgrims

British travellers denied flights bound for Saudi Arabia, despite paying tens of thousands on Hajj packages under new lottery system
Quote

Last week, Saudi Arabia's Hajj ministry announced that Muslims from Europe, Australia and the Americas would need to apply to attend Hajj, which is taking place between 7-12 July this year, through a random draw on the government-backed Motawif website.

Motawif - a government-backed portal run by an Indian company with links to New Delhi as revealed by Middle East Eye

Quote

In early June, the Saudi government made a surprise decision to sideline traditional travel agencies and instead use Motawif - a government-backed portal run by an Indian company with links to New Delhi as revealed by Middle East Eye - to carry out a lottery system.

Motawif organised a random draw that Muslims from Europe, Australia and the Americas had to go through to attend Hajj this year, set to start on 7 July.

 

Quote

The rollout of this service has been a complete and utter failure and this company must not be allowed to operate and take money from customers in the UK next year'

- UK Hajj pilgrim

 

Quote

A West Yorkshire-based pilgrim said that she and her group of seven had paid over £65,000 in Hajj packages, but were unable to board flights from Manchester airport on two separate days. 

“The flight on 25 June was overbooked,” the British pilgrim, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told MEE. “Saudia Airlines told us that Motawif had not booked us on to the flight. The flight was full in economy and business class had 12 seats available.”

She said that whilst at the airport, she waited for hours on the phone to Motawif, which she described as “dishonest”. 

“They told me the flight was cancelled due to a technical fault with the plane and to go home,” she said. “We were ten mins away from the airport and proceeded to go to the airport as there was no information online to say the [flight] had been cancelled.”

The flight was not cancelled, and took off one hour and 15 minutes later than scheduled on Saturday afternoon - suggesting the "technical fault" excuse may have been a complete fabrication.

“The agent who told us this told us he was the highest person who worked at Motawif in the call centre; there was no manager or supervisor to speak to.”

 

Anyone who has prepaid to do the pilgrimage with a tour operator has been urged to request a refund.

The draw is the only way that Muslims from western countries can participate in this year’s Hajj.

There are three types of packages that western pilgrims can apply for: silver, gold and platinum. 

Quote

The random lottery launched on Friday, and crashed briefly due to high demand. 

Here’s everything you need to know about the new ballot system. 

Who can apply?

The random draw is applicable to all countries in North America, South America, non-Muslim majority countries in Europe, Australia and New Zealand. 

All applicants must be under the age of 65, and must have completed two doses of the Covid-19 vaccination. Those attending must submit a negative PCR test within 72 hours of departing to Saudi Arabia. 

Only those who haven’t performed Hajj within the last five years are eligible to enrol.

The draw is the only way that Muslims from western countries can participate in this year’s Hajj. Anyone who has prepaid to do the pilgrimage with a tour operator has been urged to request a refund.

 

Quote

In other Muslim majority countries around the world, the system of selection varies.

In Pakistan for example, 60 percent of places are granted based on private tour operators, while 40 percent of places are organised by a Pakistani government scheme that involves a computerised ballot. 

In Turkey, the 37,770 people attending this year were chosen via an application system which prioritised those who have never been. Many Turks have been applying for several years, if not decades, waiting for their names to be chosen.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hajj-lottery-explained-random-draw-western-pilgrims

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hajj-lottery-explained-random-draw-western-pilgrims

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Australian Muslims 'devastated' by Saudi Arabia's new Hajj pilgrimage lottery

  • Saudi Arabia's new visa lottery system has thrown Australian Muslims' Hajj plans into chaos
  • The rules changed overnight, forcing many to cancel their flights and hotel bookings
  • Saudi Arabia says the lottery system is designed to crack down on Hajj-related scams
Quote

As 1 million Muslims have been preparing to make the journey of a lifetime to Islam's holiest sites, the Saudi government has made a surprise announcement that has devastated Islamic communities across Australia and the Western world.

Key points:

  • Saudi Arabia's new visa lottery system has thrown Australian Muslims' Hajj plans into chaos
  • The rules changed overnight, forcing many to cancel their flights and hotel bookings
  • Saudi Arabia says the lottery system is designed to crack down on Hajj-related scams
 

Muslims from Australia, New Zealand, the UK, North America and Europe initially rejoiced when Saudi Arabia announced 

"They said they'll confirm before Ramadan and we waited. Eid came and nothing happened,

Quote

One travel operator from Melbourne, who spoke to the ABC anonymously for fear of repercussions from the Gulf nation, said he and others in the industry were not given any clear answers.

"They said they'll confirm before Ramadan and we waited. Eid came and nothing happened," he said.

Travel agents left reeling

"So it's just a complete mess, to be totally frank with you."

"They announced [the new] system because the travel agent is the intermediary between the ministry of Hajj and the client, and they need to get the intermediary out to reduce the cost," they said.

"Not everybody is familiar with the internet. There are senior citizens who are unfamiliar with the processes online, who don't even have credit cards.

Quote

The Saudi government's decision has left another travel agent from Melbourne blindsided and reeling.

"It's completely devastated the whole market, not just from the travel agents' point of view, but for the pilgrims," the travel agent said.

"Not everybody is familiar with the internet. There are senior citizens who are unfamiliar with the processes online, who don't even have credit cards.

"So it's just a complete mess, to be totally frank with you."

In a statement, Saudi officials said the online lottery portal was introduced to crack down on Hajj-related scams run by fraudulent agents.

There have been anecdotal reports of elderly Muslims being defrauded of thousands of dollars by thieves posing as Hajj tourism operators.

But the ACCC said in a statement it was unable to provide any statistics on complaints relating to Hajj scams.

Another Australian travel operator who wanted to remain anonymous said he was told an entirely different story.

"They announced [the new] system because the travel agent is the intermediary between the ministry of Hajj and the client, and they need to get the intermediary out to reduce the cost," they said.

Numerous agents have made deposits from their own funds to secure spots in Saudi hotels and on flights in the hope of kickstarting their businesses after a two-year drought.

"There are companies that were completely relying on the Hajj business, it was their only source of income… and now they're being left completely out of the loop," the travel operator said.

Costs of pilgrimage skyrocket

What Motawif was advertising during its short application stage were packages that included flights starting as low as $6,000.

"I thought, 'I'm going to Hajj for $6,000. What a bargain.'

"But when I logged into pay, the cheapest package was $11,000 and it didn't include flights."

Quote

When Fatima, an Australian Muslim from Sydney who wanted to remain anonymous, heard about the new system she was supportive.

"I thought, 'Great! We were cutting out the middleman,'" she said.

"There were rumours about how much agents were making, and so we thought Saudi was coming through for us."

Typical Hajj packages range from $9,000 to $15,000 and include a month's worth of flights and five-star accommodation in multiple cities, visas, transport and food.

With inflation impacting all travel costs after a two-year hiatus, there was speculation that the cost of basic packages could be as high as $20,000.

What Motawif was advertising during its short application stage were packages that included flights starting as low as $6,000.

"I got the email that said, 'Congratulations Fatima you've been approved,' and my heart was overjoyed," Fatima said.

"I thought, 'I'm going to Hajj for $6,000. What a bargain.'

"But when I logged into pay, the cheapest package was $11,000 and it didn't include flights."

Fatima is now looking at paying up to $18,500 in total for her Hajj pilgrimage.

"This is a trip that we need to do," she said.

"It's not a trip to an island in the Maldives … why is it costing us this much? Why was it left to the last minute?"

"When flights are through the roof, like $6,000 from Sydney to Saudi Arabia on an economy fare, it's ridiculous!"

She has now begun a Facebook support group for Australian pilgrims who have not been able to get any answers through Motawif.

And hundreds have joined already.

"No-one's answering our questions, there's no human contact," she said.

"And that's when everyone ate their words because we realised what the agents used to do for us. You can't put a price on it."

For Feroz, there are bigger problems with the way Hajj will be spiritually run.

"One of the greatest concerns is not having access to a scholar or a guide that you can resonate with," he said.

"There are different levels of religiosity, so you have some people who are well versed in the processes of Hajj, and others who aren't comfortable at all and need someone to hold their hand."

The Saudi embassy has been contacted for comment.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-22/hajj-lottery-saudi-arabia-upsets-muslim-australians-pilgrimage/101169798

https://www.wionews.com/videos/the-west-asia-post-saudi-hajj-lottery-system-slammed-by-pilgrims-492754

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Hajj: UK pilgrims turned away at airports as lottery chaos continues

British travellers denied flights bound for Saudi Arabia, despite paying tens of thousands on Hajj packages under new lottery system
Quote

Last week, Saudi Arabia's Hajj ministry announced that Muslims from Europe, Australia and the Americas would need to apply to attend Hajj, which is taking place between 7-12 July this year, through a random draw on the government-backed Motawif website.

Anyone who has prepaid to do the pilgrimage with a tour operator has been urged to request a refund.

The draw is the only way that Muslims from western countries can participate in this year’s Hajj.

There are three types of packages that western pilgrims can apply for: silver, gold and platinum. 

Quote

The random lottery launched on Friday, and crashed briefly due to high demand. 

Here’s everything you need to know about the new ballot system. 

Who can apply?

The random draw is applicable to all countries in North America, South America, non-Muslim majority countries in Europe, Australia and New Zealand. 

All applicants must be under the age of 65, and must have completed two doses of the Covid-19 vaccination. Those attending must submit a negative PCR test within 72 hours of departing to Saudi Arabia. 

Only those who haven’t performed Hajj within the last five years are eligible to enrol.

The draw is the only way that Muslims from western countries can participate in this year’s Hajj. Anyone who has prepaid to do the pilgrimage with a tour operator has been urged to request a refund.

 

Quote

In other Muslim majority countries around the world, the system of selection varies.

In Pakistan for example, 60 percent of places are granted based on private tour operators, while 40 percent of places are organised by a Pakistani government scheme that involves a computerised ballot. 

In Turkey, the 37,770 people attending this year were chosen via an application system which prioritised those who have never been. Many Turks have been applying for several years, if not decades, waiting for their names to be chosen.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hajj-lottery-explained-random-draw-western-pilgrims

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Posted (edited)

I seem to remember in some Islamic Eschatology hadith, that one of minor signs of our Imam's ( ATF) Zahoor,  was the large scale prevention of pilgrims to perform pilgrimage.

I could not find the source for that hadith.

Does anyone else remember such a hadith?

Agree with Abu Hadi this is a financial and centralization of power type action.

What fills me with revulsion and is shocking,  is this lottery and Travel arrangement fiasco has been outsourced to a Dubai based Indian travel firm with links to  Modi and his BJP. Idolaters now have been given power over the muslimeen.

Talk about allowing a wolf to guard the henhouse!

Am very thankful to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to allow me and my wife to complete our Hajj obligation in 2009, would have a huge problem with being led on Haj by a Jahil guide.

Edited by Mahdavist
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9 hours ago, Hasani Samnani said:

I seem to remember in some Islamic Eschatology hadith, that one of minor signs of our Imam's ( ATF) Zahoor,  was the large scale prevention of pilgrims to perform pilgrimage.

I could not find the source for that hadith.

Does anyone else remember such a hadith?

In one of the hasan hadith it says:

"And you will see seek for hajj and jihaad for other than Allaah"

 

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It's basically a money-grabbing scheme, like many other religious practises.

Imagine paying cash for visiting God's house, on top of having to get your vaccine shots lol.
Imagine being more afraid of a virus than your own creator, that you don't even feel safe at his "house".

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Posted (edited)

Is Hajj Becoming Haram? (Sheikh Omar Baloch) 30 minutes...Many of the concerns listed above in the comments are addressed in the video...if Sheikh Omar is waiting for Hamza Yusuf, Yasir Qadhi and Mufti Menk to expose to the Saudi regime he's going to be waiting a long, long time

 

Edited by Eddie Mecca
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Hajj 2022 Debacle (Sheikh Omar Baloch) 30 minutes,,,streamed 17 hours ago...follow-through to video above...look what's going on 

 

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Right now people are focusing pursuing their life dreams and are influenced on materialistic life and they have lost interest to perform hajj. Most of them think that they will do the hajj when they reach old age while at the same time we have goverment that makes the hajj even more complicated to lose totally interest. The more we go forward in time the more people will abandoned the hajj.

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3 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Is Hajj Becoming Haram? (Sheikh Omar Baloch) 30 minutes...Many of the concerns listed above in the comments are addressed in the video...if Sheikh Omar is waiting for Hamza Yusuf, Yasir Qadhi and Mufti Menk to expose to the Saudi regime he's going to be waiting a long, long time

 

Very good speech, JazakaAllah Khayran.

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Also I would not put it past these shayateen to purposefully have designed this system at such a last minute haste, in order to prevent Muslim from protesting and from Ulema around the world to issue fatwas against the system.

Thanks to Abu Nur for finding the hadith of Imam Jafer Sadiq( (عليه السلام)) ,  I remembered reading it , but could not remember where exactly. 

Thanks to brother Eddie for bringing the videos to our attention. 

Jazakallah Khayran to both of you,  May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) reward you for your efforts.

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On 6/30/2022 at 3:25 PM, Abu Hadi said:

They are a good mumin family and my hajj experience going with that hamlet was excellent.

Salam , They can organize pilgrims for Shia pilgrims likewise pilgrimage to Karbala & Mashhad & Najaf even if they are Sunni Muslims nevertheless some Sunni vloggers have promoted visiting Al aqsa mosque which it has been supported by Wahabists so KSA can't ban it according to Sunni  narrations which just allows pilgrimage to Mecca & Medina & Al Aqsa(Jerusalem)  anyway personally I don't recommend it because unfortunatelty it's under control of Israel which for visiting it Muslims face too much discrimination & humilation also currently traveling to Al Aqsa(Jerusalem) will lead to normalizing relations with fake state of Israel.

Sunni narration about religious journey 

Quote

Hadith on Pilgrimage: No pilgrimage but to Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem

Abu Huraira reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Do not undertake a religious journey except to three mosques: the Sacred Mosque in Mecca, the Mosque of the messenger of Allah, and the Farthest Mosque in Jerusalem.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ al-Bukhārī 1132, Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 1397

Grade: Muttafaqun Alayhi (authenticity agreed upon) according to Al-Bukhari and Muslim

عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ عَنْ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ لَا تُشَدُّ الرِّحَالُ إِلَّا إِلَى ثَلَاثَةِ مَسَاجِدَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ وَمَسْجِدِ الرَّسُولِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَمَسْجِدِ الْأَقْصَى

1132 صحيح البخاري كتاب فضل الصلاة في مسجد مكة والمدينة باب فضل الصلاة في مسجد مكة والمدينة

1397 صحيح مسلم كتاب الحج باب لا تشد الرحال إلا إلى ثلاثة مساجد

 https://www.abuaminaelias.com/dailyhadithonline/2012/04/24/pilgrims-makkah-madinah-quds/

Sunni narration about religious journey 

Quote

Ayatollah Khamenei to Sunni Scholar: You will soon lead congregational prayers in Al-Quds

The following is the full text of the speech delivered on March 1, 2018 by Ayatollah Khamenei, the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution, in a meeting with Muhammad Abdul-Sattar al-Sayyid - the Syrian Minister of Awqaf [religious endowments] - and a number of Syrian scholars.

https://hajj.ir/en/89142

 

Quote

“Mr Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah says he will, Inshallah, pray at Al-Aqsa Mosque one day. To us, this is a totally feasible and achievable hope,” the Leader said.

http://english.khamenei.ir/d/2020/05/27/3/22730.jpg

https://ifpnews.com/nasrallah-to-pray-at-al-aqsa-mosque-one-day-iran-leader/

https://english.khamenei.ir/news/7584/We-will-pray-in-al-Quds

Quote

https://en.rasanews.ir/en/news/137/i-hope-that-everyone-witnesses-ayatollah-khamenei-praying-in-al-aqsa-mosque

 

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Virtual Visits to Mecca, Medina, Al-Quds Mosques in Ramadan

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Using a 3D program developed by Se-ma-for Studio, users can take an interactive tour of the Grand Mosque (Masjid al-Haram) in Mecca, the Prophet’s Mosque (Masjid al-Nabawi) in Medina, and Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem al-Quds, according to Al-Araby website.

Dubbed ‘Muslim 3D’, it looks like a video game, but is actually a virtual tour through Islamic lifestyle, history and rituals.

https://iqna.ir/en/news/3474366/virtual-visits-to-mecca-medina-al-quds-mosques-in-ramadan- 

Just based on Sunni standarsd 

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bigitec.muslim3d&hl=fa&gl=US

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/muslim-3d/id871225494

Quote

Muslim 3D is an educational simulation. Begin your journey in virtual Makkah. Visit the Holy Mosque, explore the Virtual Museum or go back in time to relive a historic moment.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1503250/Muslim_3D/

Just based on Sunni standarsd 

Quote

To open the experience up to Muslims around the world who were unable to attend, a German company created an interactive digital Hajj experience. Dubbed ‘Muslim 3D’, it looks like a video game, but is actually a virtual tour through Islamic lifestyle, history and rituals.

https://en.shafaqna.com/205820/virtual-visits-to-mecca-medina-al-quds-mosques-in-ramadan/

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Illumination of the clock tower in Mecca [ Abraj Al-Bait Towers] on the occasion of the beginning of the Hajj season + pictures

Quote

borj2-331x533.jpg   

Abraj Al-Bait

معلومات عن برج الساعة | نواعم

Minas Morgul:censored:

 
Quote

tolkiens legendarium - What Is the Significance of the Cyclonic Beam of  Light in Minas Morgul in LOTR: ROTK? - Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack  Exchange 

Minas Morgul
Abraj Al-Bait:censored:

image.jpeg.041e08b75e6e4b80b7dcaa0d405eda20.jpeg

image.jpeg.7612920d6f3205019458d7a0c56ab4b2.jpeg

:censored::book::respect:

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Lord of the Rings: Two Towers' two tower question, definitively answered -  Polygon   borj2-331x533.jpg New Isengard Orthanc Tower Painting Print Canvas Lord Of The Rings Tolkien  Decor | eBay

Eye of Sauron          Makkah Clock Royal Tower            Isengard

:respect::book::censored:

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اشتري اونلاين بأفضل الاسعار بالسعودية - سوق الان امازون السعودية: مجسم برج  الساعة مكة المكرمة المينيوم لون فضي : Everything Else

 سحر البداية آداب السلوك برج الساعة مكة حجز - siliconvalleybirding.org

 Emirates News Agency - Sharjah Ruler inaugurates Clock Tower Square in Kalba  Sharjah Ruler inaugurates Clock Tower Square in Kalbaبرج الساعة | #جسق (@squ_tower) / Twitter

:censored:

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http://pix10.agoda.net/hotelImages/246635/-1/3a85488cd26286e5991eb0bed199c673.png?ca=21&ce=0&s=768x1024

معلومات عن برج الساعة في مكة : 20 معلومة لا تعرفها عن ساعة مكة - الرحالة

 

:censored::censored::censored:

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam , They can organize pilgrims for Shia pilgrims likewise pilgrimage to Karbala & Mashhad & Najaf even if they are Sunni Muslims nevertheless some Sunni vloggers have promoted visiting Al aqsa mosque which it has been supported by Wahabists so KSA can't ban it according to Sunni  narrations which just allows pilgrimage to Mecca & Medina & Al Aqsa(Jerusalem)  anyway personally I don't recommend it because unfortunatelty it's under control of Israel which for visiting it Muslims face too much discrimination & humilation also currently traveling to Al Aqsa(Jerusalem) will lead to normalizing relations with fake state of Israel.

 

 

In the U.S., groups either take Hajjis (and also Umra) or take people to Ziyarat. Its very difficult to do both. Because the U.S. is far away from all the Holy Places, it takes many months of planning to do 1 trip. Most of this is dealing with the Visa and accommodation issues for many people and many from different nationalities and backgrounds. So the group leaders either become specialists at navigating the Saudi system, or navigating the Iraqi and Iranian systems. There is noone that I know of that knows all three. 

I remember when I went to Hajj in 2016, there were so many loops and hoops I had to jump thru (including getting a signed and notarized letter from the Imam of the local masjid saying I was actually muslim) that it took months for them just to get my visa. That was one task. Now multiply that times maybe 200, then add in organizing the hotels, food, transportation, etc. which I think was the number who went on that Hajj. Organizing a trip like that is difficult in the best of circumstances, now add in the fact that the Saudi government doesn't do anything to make the trip easier for people, and actually makes it more difficult in many ways than it normally would have been. 

So for the amount of work you do, the amount of money you get is really not that much. If someone is just after money, there are much easier ways to make money in the U.S., halal ways I mean. The vast majority of hamlets here do their work fe Sibilillah, and this is their primary motivation, not money. That applies to both Sunni and Shia groups. There are some crooks who steal peoples money and don't give them what they paid for, but this is a small minority. So this is why this news is so heartbreaking for me. Not just for myself, but because I actually know some hamlet organizers who are now going to lose their livelihood, which wasn't that much in the first place, and will have to start off again from scratch in another career, which they probably won't get as much satisfaction out of doing, in addition to the severe economic hit their family will take because of this stupid decision by MBS. It is just sad all around, as others have said. 

If they wanted to do Ziyarat trips, this would be starting off from scratch again, and since there are many groups here who already specialize in this, it's difficult to say if there are the additional customers for this. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

 

 

:censored::censored::censored:

 

12 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

 

:censored:

 

12 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

 

 

:respect::book::censored:

 

12 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Illumination of the clock tower in Mecca [ Abraj Al-Bait Towers] on the occasion of the beginning of the Hajj season + pictures

 
 

:censored::book::respect:

What are those supposed to mean brother? I didn’t get it. I’m talking about the pics

Edited by Diaz
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So how much should someone pay to go for hajj? Let’s talk about the countries near Saudi Arabia.

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On 7/2/2022 at 6:22 AM, Abu Hadi said:

There are some crooks who steal peoples money and don't give them what they paid for, but this is a small minority. So this is why this news is so heartbreaking for me.

Salam this small minority scamming is one of major Justification of MBS & KSA for ruining Hajj process  which ruins carrier of hamlets .

On 7/2/2022 at 6:22 AM, Abu Hadi said:

. So the group leaders either become specialists at navigating the Saudi system, or navigating the Iraqi and Iranian systems. There is noone that I know of that knows all three. 

They can start it from Iraq because month of Muharram & Arbaeen walking is near which it's navigating is easier than Iranian system also Iraq is more ready than before to offer assistance to the hamlets .

On 7/2/2022 at 6:22 AM, Abu Hadi said:

now add in the fact that the Saudi government doesn't do anything to make the trip easier for people, and actually makes it more difficult in many ways than it normally would have been. 

in opposite Iraqi government is doing anything to make trips easier due to it's efforet for inviting more people for month of Muharram & Arbaeen walking after Corona  outbreak & reducing it in both of Iran & Iraq recently .

On 7/2/2022 at 6:22 AM, Abu Hadi said:

If they wanted to do Ziyarat trips, this would be starting off from scratch again, and since there are many groups here who already specialize in this, it's difficult to say if there are the additional customers for this. 

I think wich you can introduce some pilgrims to the hamlet which you have trust in it because respectfully  in opposition to what you have said there is many complaints about current Zyarat groups about their shortcoming which pilgrims handle it just due to their love  & their mindest about accepting hardship & expreincing torments of Imam Hussain(عليه السلام) & his family which coming new hamlets will cause increasing rivalrly so then increasing quality of Zyarat groups which currently don't see any hamlet as their rival so therefore they don't try to increase quality of their services also as Muslims we must help the bankrupted muslim hamlets to overcome their problems in this hard situation due to Corona & immoral policy of KSA & MBS .

 

On 7/2/2022 at 6:22 AM, Abu Hadi said:

So for the amount of work you do, the amount of money you get is really not that much. If someone is just after money, there are much easier ways to make money in the U.S., halal ways I mean.

I totally agree with you anyway  we as muslims must help them as much as possible for us in order to which they can make a living after this hard situation due to Corona & immoral policy of KSA & MBS  which Iraq in opposition to KSa accepts any amount of pilgrims as much as come for pilgrimage in month of Muharram & Arbaeen walking so therefore introducing new hamlets doesn't cause any problem for current Zyarat groups also by increasing their expreince they can plan for Zyarat to Iran besides of next Fifa world cup in Qatar which pilgrims can come for both of watching games & Zyarat althouth Iran has wishful thinking about it but on the orher hand already has no clear plan for doing it.

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On 7/2/2022 at 3:32 PM, Diaz said:

What are those supposed to mean brother? I didn’t get it. I’m talking about the pics

Salam all of them have same desigin & architecture which clock towers in Mecca & UAE  resembel freemason /Illuminati one eye of Evil  architecture & design which accroding to Tolkien stories  & other freemason /Illuminati affected stories great Satanic power with this symbole will come from east which is now located in Qibla of Muslims so therefore in westerner viewpoint  Islam & Muslims are evil forces from east which has been mentioned in the Tolkien stories  & other freemason /Illuminati affected stories.

On 7/2/2022 at 3:35 PM, Diaz said:

So how much should someone pay to go for hajj? Let’s talk about the countries near Saudi Arabia.

 Iranian Hajis have paid 45 million Tomans=450 Million Iranian Rial around 450000000.00 IRR = 10650.89 USD

https://www.eghtesadnews.com/بخش-اخبار-سایر-رسانه-ها-61/499057-هزینه-حج-تمتع-چقدر-است

https://www.isna.ir/news/1401021710361/هزینه-حج-اعلام-شد

https://www.currencyconverterx.com/IRR/USD/450000000

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30 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

10650.89 USD

How much was before brother?

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2 minutes ago, Diaz said:

How much was before brother?

It has been between 34 to 38 Million tomans =340 to 380 million IRR =8047.34 USD to 899.41 USD

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