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In the Name of God بسم الله

Abortion rulings; distressed and having doubts.

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Guest Zen

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Guest Zen

Salam alaikum

At the moment we've heard about the news of USA overturning Roe Wade and has brought the discussion in abortion once again in the Muslim community. Ofc me being a Shia Muslim I took asked my family, Marja and even Reddit for the rulings.

My Marja being Sistani, he ofc said that abortion isn't allowed except if the woman's pregnancy becomes dangerous. Meaning that even for cases such as rape, incest and deformities it's not allowed to get an abortion before 120 days. 

 

I asked it once again on Reddit and the responses seemed to agree with Sistani easily and instead argued that the 'child' isn't in fault for the woman being raped etc. Needless to say I was disturbed that these people on Reddit and even marja's like Sistani didn't seem to understand why rape victims out of everyone should get the right to abort the fetus.

 

This whole topic made me therefore rethink about my beliefs and how much my own morals go against Islam and how much I began to dislike marja's like Sistani (despite the fact I find him the most knowledgeable) who don't seem to get mental health and how people like me who dread the thought of pregnancy let alone carrying a fetus that is deformed or a product of rape.

I've read that it's mostly Sunni's that allow such abortions to take place before 120 days, but me being born a Shia these rulings unfortunately don't apply to me.

Mind you I have autism and some things for me require a lot of mental strength and energy to do something. Not to mention that I see social constructs differently then most people (especially me being in a Iraqi/Iranians household). Plus the fact that Sistani states that life begins at conception, meaning the fertilized ovium. I just can't comprehend all of that, cause all I imagine is a clump of cells instead of a person?? And I feel like I'd be sinning if I wanted to get an abortion to abort a deformed a rape baby even though I know very well I'll probably develop suicidal thoughts cause I wouldn't be able to handle such baby. I would honestly see this more as a burden than a blessing. In a nutcase, I have a lot of doubts about abortion in our religion and the scholars don't convince me after trying hard to understand these rulings without thinking to myself if they actually take women like me and their feelings and mental health into consideration.

I didn't really have a question but I didn't know where else I could say this safely other than Reddit. I feel like I'm going against my religion but I simultaneously know what is best for me if I were to be in this situation. Not to mention that I feel morally more towards being pro-choice than pro-life.

Instead I'll just ask these questions in order to give my rant some sort of educational purpose for myself and others like me:

 

1. Would it be permissible for a person like me to get an abortion for a deformed or rape baby if it caused me immense difficulty mentally?

2. Am I going against Islam if I were to not agree with my Marja because of doubt or feeling uncomfortable with the fatwa?

3. How does kaffare work if a non muslim doctor were to help me abort a fetus? Who should pay the kaffare?

4. People state that women instead of aborting their babies give their babies up for adoption or put into foster care. But I live in the Netherlands and there arent many Shia people here, then what? And wouldn't it be a burden to sacrifice my body and metal health to carry a baby I wouldn't want and just give it away and just feel more guilty about it afterwards?

6. I'll also post a link of pictures to ask the following question: how much of this is does it also apply in our beliefs?

 

 

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Wa alaikum as salam

I think you are confusing the fundamentals of religion with jurisprudential details. 

A Muslim is someone who believes in the Oneness of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and in the Prophethood of Muhammad ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)). Furthermore as Shia we believe in the wilayah of Imam Ali (عليه السلام).

The world of jurisprudence covers several topics with various levels of detail, so in general I don't think that a single fiqhi rule should result in one leaving Islam altogether. This doesn't make sense.

Some of these rules are clear and others require the ulama to try and find an answer with the resources that are available.  In cases where they rule with obligatory precaution rather than a clear fatwa one can refer to other fuqaha as well.

Therefore perhaps you should investigate this topic in more detail, also checking the position of other jurists. 

Finally harboring anger against a faqih for a ruling they have given is unreasonable.  They try to cover a maximum of topics with the resources they have available and it's not a simple task. The work they do is a service that facilitates the requirement of investigation for the rest of us. 

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Guest Abdul

و عليكم السلام 

Contact the Sayed sistani office directly, there are phone numbers on his website as your situation seems difficult and explain your issue and ask the questions. I highly doubt he will give you an exemption, as abortion is not permissible even at conception. You will have to pay a deeya (kafarra for killing someone accidentally or on purpose) to the father and do a lot of istegfar. 

May Allah help you.

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Posted (edited)

I am in the same position as you. I am autistic and I am not planning to have any children but my family and community are constantly pushing me. I decided if I ever find myself in a forced marriage, I will just secretly get an abortion and pay deeya. Forced marriage is invalid in Islam and people, who are putting me in a position where I gave to get an abortion, are committing a much greater sin than me getting an abortion. If I am questioned about it in afterlife, I will just put the blame on people who are forcing me to get married. Getting an abortion is a lesser sin than suicide and I will never put myself in a position where I get suicidal. It's common sense, and I don't need to ask any scholar about it because they are so ignorant about struggles of autistic people and they don't even want to understand our struggles. 

Edited by rkazmi33
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On 6/27/2022 at 12:51 AM, Guest Zen said:

I didn't really have a question but I didn't know where else I could say this safely other than Reddit. I feel like I'm going against my religion but I simultaneously know what is best for me if I were to be in this situation. Not to mention that I feel morally more towards being pro-choice than pro-life.

For me it is the other way around. For most of my life I have be pro-choice as they say in America. I live in a European country similar to yours where abortion is legal and is seldom questioned and if any body do they are branded as backwards, ignorant or bigoted. So even though I from a very early age understood that abortion is actually killing a human being, I accepted it as one of these cases where society allows for the taking of an other persons life.  I know that some pro-choice'rs claim that a little blood clot is not a human being, but they are really just kidding them selves to avoid the bad conscience. If that little blood clot had been allowed to live it would have become a human being. And from a religious perspective God has a purpose with every human being that is born in this world.
What changed my mind is that I started to take religion more seriously. I understood that the killing of an innocent is a sin. I don't think that you can find any religion that allows for murder of an innocent.  It is different with self defense, Which is an other case where society allows for the taking of an other persons life. That does not involve an innocent person and is to avoid a greater harm. However an unborn fetus is the most Innocent there is. Even if it is begotten by rape or incest. In these cases the child is not to blame. If you want to make an argument against Islam in this case you can call out the hypocrisy of some Muslims that for cultural reasons often put the blame on the child instead of on the rapist. Not against the Marja who rightfully makes the point that killing an unborn child is murder.
Of cause, coming from Europe my self, I know all the arguments for the pro-choice. That people will just have the abortion anyway and with dirty wire hangers that will make them sick and so on. That is all good and fine, but it still doesn't change that abortion is murder. The most effective remedy against having an unwanted baby is not to have sex outside marriage. That is difficult for the Europeans that has thrown God out the window.
My parents was not very religious when i grew up and I pretty much adopted there secular views on abortion, alcohol, premarital sex and so on. I have lived that lifestyle, astagfirullah, and I have been hurt by it. Little by little God made me realize that it was wrong and it is much better not to do these things.

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Guest Abdul
2 hours ago, Revert1963 said:

For me it is the other way around. For most of my life I have be pro-choice as they say in America. I live in a European country similar to yours where abortion is legal and is seldom questioned and if any body do they are branded as backwards, ignorant or bigoted. So even though I from a very early age understood that abortion is actually killing a human being, I accepted it as one of these cases where society allows for the taking of an other persons life.  I know that some pro-choice'rs claim that a little blood clot is not a human being, but they are really just kidding them selves to avoid the bad conscience. If that little blood clot had been allowed to live it would have become a human being. And from a religious perspective God has a purpose with every human being that is born in this world.
What changed my mind is that I started to take religion more seriously. I understood that the killing of an innocent is a sin. I don't think that you can find any religion that allows for murder of an innocent.  It is different with self defense, Which is an other case where society allows for the taking of an other persons life. That does not involve an innocent person and is to avoid a greater harm. However an unborn fetus is the most Innocent there is. Even if it is begotten by rape or incest. In these cases the child is not to blame. If you want to make an argument against Islam in this case you can call out the hypocrisy of some Muslims that for cultural reasons often put the blame on the child instead of on the rapist. Not against the Marja who rightfully makes the point that killing an unborn child is murder.
Of cause, coming from Europe my self, I know all the arguments for the pro-choice. That people will just have the abortion anyway and with dirty wire hangers that will make them sick and so on. That is all good and fine, but it still doesn't change that abortion is murder. The most effective remedy against having an unwanted baby is not to have sex outside marriage. That is difficult for the Europeans that has thrown God out the window.
My parents was not very religious when i grew up and I pretty much adopted there secular views on abortion, alcohol, premarital sex and so on. I have lived that lifestyle, astagfirullah, and I have been hurt by it. Little by little God made me realize that it was wrong and it is much better not to do these things.

السلام عليكم 

I am happy for you that you left your past life and got closer to Allah ما شاء الله He guides whoever he wills subhanallah. Well said and I would also like to add that even some forms of contraception is not permissible because it kills the baby after conception, so sisters out there who are using some forms of long term or short term contraceptives please check with your doctor and make sure the contraception you are using ruins the egg before fertilization. I apologise, the topic is delicate but hopefully will prove beneficial to others.

May Allah guide us all.

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Posted (edited)

@Revert1963 I think you are very lucky and you have lived your life in a bubble and privileged environment that you don't know about any women who are forced to have babies and you think all women, who get abortion, live immodest lifestyles. This is why I will get abortion in secret and not try to even consult some Muslim because this is the typical response I get from Muslims. It's so sad that I am discussing such difficult circumstances created by an invisible disability and in response, I get no empathy, no compassion, such cold, brutal list of accusations insinuating that since I am considering abortion, I must commit all these other sins like alcohol, premarital sex etc. Congratulations on your perfect life and holier than thou attitude, and your perfect husband, who has clearly never abused you in any way. I just hope that God, who is supposed to judge me, will have more compassion and more critical thinking skills than Muslim and He won't accuse me of all these sins I never committed. 

Edited by rkazmi33
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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, rkazmi33 said:

@Revert1963 I think you are very lucky and you have lived your life in a bubble and privileged environment that you don't know about any women who are forced to have babies and you think all women, who get abortion, live immodest lifestyles. This is why I will get abortion in secret and not try to even consult some Muslim because this is the typical response I get from Muslims. It's so sad that I am discussing such difficult circumstances created by an invisible disability and in response, I get no empathy, no compassion, such cold, brutal list of accusations insinuating that since I am considering abortion, I must commit all these other sins like alcohol, premarital sex etc. Congratulations on your perfect life and holier than thou attitude, and your perfect husband, who has clearly never abused you in any way. I just hope that God, who is supposed to judge me, will have more compassion and more critical thinking skills than Muslim and He won't accuse me of all these sins I never committed. 

Hearing about your life situation is sad. Unfortunately, many people who call themselves muslims continue to follow the pre-islamic culture and habits of their ancestors. 

However, 99% of all abortions are because of one-night stands and promiscuous behaviour. Abortions because of rape or danger to the woman's life account for very little of the abortions. Girls being oppressed by their families and local community is an entirely different issue that's got nothing to do with abortion. 

Edited by Dubilex
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Posted (edited)
On 6/26/2022 at 6:51 PM, Guest Zen said:

Salam alaikum

At the moment we've heard about the news of USA overturning Roe Wade and has brought the discussion in abortion once again in the Muslim community. Ofc me being a Shia Muslim I took asked my family, Marja and even Reddit for the rulings.

My Marja being Sistani, he ofc said that abortion isn't allowed except if the woman's pregnancy becomes dangerous. Meaning that even for cases such as rape, incest and deformities it's not allowed to get an abortion before 120 days. 

 

I asked it once again on Reddit and the responses seemed to agree with Sistani easily and instead argued that the 'child' isn't in fault for the woman being raped etc. Needless to say I was disturbed that these people on Reddit and even marja's like Sistani didn't seem to understand why rape victims out of everyone should get the right to abort the fetus.

 

This whole topic made me therefore rethink about my beliefs and how much my own morals go against Islam and how much I began to dislike marja's like Sistani (despite the fact I find him the most knowledgeable) who don't seem to get mental health and how people like me who dread the thought of pregnancy let alone carrying a fetus that is deformed or a product of rape.

I've read that it's mostly Sunni's that allow such abortions to take place before 120 days, but me being born a Shia these rulings unfortunately don't apply to me.

Mind you I have autism and some things for me require a lot of mental strength and energy to do something. Not to mention that I see social constructs differently then most people (especially me being in a Iraqi/Iranians household). Plus the fact that Sistani states that life begins at conception, meaning the fertilized ovium. I just can't comprehend all of that, cause all I imagine is a clump of cells instead of a person?? And I feel like I'd be sinning if I wanted to get an abortion to abort a deformed a rape baby even though I know very well I'll probably develop suicidal thoughts cause I wouldn't be able to handle such baby. I would honestly see this more as a burden than a blessing. In a nutcase, I have a lot of doubts about abortion in our religion and the scholars don't convince me after trying hard to understand these rulings without thinking to myself if they actually take women like me and their feelings and mental health into consideration.

I didn't really have a question but I didn't know where else I could say this safely other than Reddit. I feel like I'm going against my religion but I simultaneously know what is best for me if I were to be in this situation. Not to mention that I feel morally more towards being pro-choice than pro-life.

Instead I'll just ask these questions in order to give my rant some sort of educational purpose for myself and others like me:

 

1. Would it be permissible for a person like me to get an abortion for a deformed or rape baby if it caused me immense difficulty mentally?

2. Am I going against Islam if I were to not agree with my Marja because of doubt or feeling uncomfortable with the fatwa?

3. How does kaffare work if a non muslim doctor were to help me abort a fetus? Who should pay the kaffare?

4. People state that women instead of aborting their babies give their babies up for adoption or put into foster care. But I live in the Netherlands and there arent many Shia people here, then what? And wouldn't it be a burden to sacrifice my body and metal health to carry a baby I wouldn't want and just give it away and just feel more guilty about it afterwards?

6. I'll also post a link of pictures to ask the following question: how much of this is does it also apply in our beliefs?

 

 

1. No

2.There is no problem in questioning it and trying to understand it, but when you say that you are definitely against it, then this is against Islam IF you don't have the requisite knowledge and experience to make your own fatwa, i.e. you are Mujtahid and can deduce Islamic legal rulings from their primary sources and also the specialized knowledge that is relevant in this case. The marjaa', in addition to being mujtahid, and this being recognized by other mujtahid, they rely on a wide variety of experts in specific fields (like medicine) in order to come to conclusions and issue fatawa. So before you say 'I disagree', you have to have a basis to disagree, which means you have to have access to this same knowledge and have the same level of experience. Many people get misguided by disagreeing with a fawa that 'seems wrong' to them or 'doesn't feel right' to them without the knowledge they need in order to actually 'know' whether the fatwa is right or wrong. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) protect us from making this mistake. 

Feeling are important, in many cases, but feelings don't override truth. The truth exists, i.e. things exist as they are no matter how we feel about them. Our feelings are there to guide us ALONG WITH our aql (intellectual reasoning). If our feelings conflict with our aql, we are taught to follow our aql rather than our feelings, and this is a clear teaching of Islam. Anyone who prefers their feelings over their aql in cases where there is a conflict is making the wrong decision. 

3. As for kafarra, I am not sure. Here is the post from Sayyid Mohammad Al Musawi. You can contact his office directly. I believe the office is in London

https://www.al-islam.org/ask/is-there-a-kaffara-for-supporting-someone-to-do-an-abortion

4. There is no such as thing as 'adoption' in Islam in the way it is conceived of in the West, i.e. that the adopted mother is now legally the mother and the birth mother has no rights to the child. In Islam, the birth mother is always and without exception the mother and always has the primary caretaker role for the child while she is alive. If she dies, and the birth father also dies, then the child can be adopted. 

6. I'm not sure how to respond to this. It's just a post with a bunch of comments. Please be more specific as to what your question is. 

If you are seeking advice, here's advice for you. I have three children, btw, three boys whom I raised with my wife. 

A. Don't go to Reddit for advice. You will just be more confused. Most of the posts on Reddit are by spam bots / trolls and there are many people on reddit who are pretending to be 'ulima' but actually have no knowledge of the religion. 

B. If you are really that uncomfortable with the idea of having a child, then in Islam you have the option to not have a child. There are very effective forms of birth control now (like 99.9% effective) and these are halal to use, of course. Any form of birth control that is non permeant (i.e .can be reversed) is halal to use. In the future, if you change your mind and feel that you can handle the situation, then you can do it at that point. 

C. Always keep in mind that 'Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) never burdens someone with something that they have no ability to bear'. This is in the Holy Quran. As a muslim, you need to believe this. If some situation happens, and you happen to get pregnant, even if (auzubillah and I sincerely hope this never happens to you) you are raped and conceive a child this way, if that happens that means that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given you the ability to bear this test or trial. If you didn't have the ability to bear it, then it wouldn't happen to you. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Just and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the one who controls what events actually happen and what events don't happen. 

Imagine a situation where a mother conceived a child as a result of a rape. Instead of aborting the child, she decided to love the child, raise the child properly and do her best to overcome the trauma associated with the rape. What do you think would be the result of that women's action ? Bad results ? No, the child would grow up to be a happy and productive member of the society and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would elevate the status of that mother, both in the dunya and akhira because she was patient and did her best, despite the horrible circumstances in which that child was conceived. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) took her from being just a normal lady, to a preeminent lady of Paradise because of the choices she made, and because of the test she passed. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) created her in order to give her this position. Any women whom this happens to has the ability to make those same choices and get the same result. They can also make other ones. It is up to them. The same can be said of a women who delivers a child with a disability or birth defect. 

You seem to be accepting a fallacy which is pushed by certain groups in society that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is unjust and burdens people with things that they cannot bear so that because they are not bear them, they are forced into acts like suicide. Those who believe these things have no faith in God, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

The general concept regarding Abortion, from an Islamic Perspective, is that once the Ruh (the soul) enters into the fetus, which happens after approx 6 - 14 days from conception, i.e. when the fetus clings to the wall of the uterus, noone has the right to end the pregnancy after that point, because this fetus is now a human being, independent from the mother. This fetus has now been given life by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and this life is now a sacred human life, just like all human life is sacred. Abortion is allowed after this point only in very specific circumstances, where the life of the mother is at grave risk. 

The ones who say that this fetus (after clinging to the wall of the uterus) is not a human being, and that it is just an appendage of the mothers body, so the mother has the right to do what she wants with it are just speculating, and many of them don't even believe in the concept of a 'soul', much less in Islam as a religion. So if someone takes their opinion, they take them as their 'Awliyah', their leaders besides the marjaa'. As it says in the Holy Quran, anyone who takes the non believers as their 'Wali', their leaders, is surely one of them. So don't make this mistake. That is my advice. Salam. 

 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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Posted (edited)
On 6/30/2022 at 4:13 PM, rkazmi33 said:

@Revert1963 I think you are very lucky and you have lived your life in a bubble and privileged environment that you don't know about any women who are forced to have babies and you think all women, who get abortion, live immodest lifestyles. This is why I will get abortion in secret and not try to even consult some Muslim because this is the typical response I get from Muslims. It's so sad that I am discussing such difficult circumstances created by an invisible disability and in response, I get no empathy, no compassion, such cold, brutal list of accusations insinuating that since I am considering abortion, I must commit all these other sins like alcohol, premarital sex etc. Congratulations on your perfect life and holier than thou attitude, and your perfect husband, who has clearly never abused you in any way. I just hope that God, who is supposed to judge me, will have more compassion and more critical thinking skills than Muslim and He won't accuse me of all these sins I never committed. 

I am sorry if my post offended you, my dear, but unless you are also Guest Zen, then I did not respond to your post. I am not condemning you. We have all done things that we shouldn't do and what you will do is in the end a question between you and Allah. He is the most merciful, the most compassionate. I can understand that you have some problems to deal with. I have a bit of autism too so I can understand. But I believe that the problems we have in our lives is for us to grow, become wiser and stronger. I may have had more freedom in my life not to be bothered so much by the pressure to get married that parents always put on their children, but that doesn't mean that I have had a perfect life. I have been suffering from lag of self esteem and never been so lucky as to have any children. Now I am just a crazy old cat lady. I don't have a perfect husband and I have seen my share of abuse, violence and neglect. Especially at times when I did not insist on clear boundaries. If you do not stand up for your self it is easy for other people to take advantage of you and do thing to you that is most unfortunate.
Men does abuse women and sometimes women even abuse men, but don't blame Islam for it. Abusing someone go's against Islam and if you want to insist on clear boundaries you can outline it in your marriage contract. If he violates the marriage contract, the marriage is void. If you don't want any children you can make that a precondition if you want. Maybe you will have difficulty finding a husband, but at least you then have an excuse to tell your parents. As for forced marriages, it also go's against Islam. You can not be married away without your consent. I understand that there might be some social pressure, but that is all about putting up your boundaries. Forced marriages, abuse and social pressure is culture. Not religion. If your parents or husband are using religious arguments, then study the religion and find your arguments against theirs. You have your rights according to the religion and your husband and parents are obliged to respect that. If you have an
abortion in secret and someone finds out about it, then it just becomes more difficult for your to find religious arguments to benefit your situation.

Edited by Revert1963
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Guest Zen
On 6/30/2022 at 5:21 PM, Abu Hadi said:

1. No

2.There is no problem in questioning it and trying to understand it, but when you say that you are definitely against it, then this is against Islam IF you don't have the requisite knowledge and experience to make your own fatwa, i.e. you are Mujtahid and can deduce Islamic legal rulings from their primary sources and also the specialized knowledge that is relevant in this case. The marjaa', in addition to being mujtahid, and this being recognized by other mujtahid, they rely on a wide variety of experts in specific fields (like medicine) in order to come to conclusions and issue fatawa. So before you say 'I disagree', you have to have a basis to disagree, which means you have to have access to this same knowledge and have the same level of experience. Many people get misguided by disagreeing with a fawa that 'seems wrong' to them or 'doesn't feel right' to them without the knowledge they need in order to actually 'know' whether the fatwa is right or wrong. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) protect us from making this mistake. 

Feeling are important, in many cases, but feelings don't override truth. The truth exists, i.e. things exist as they are no matter how we feel about them. Our feelings are there to guide us ALONG WITH our aql (intellectual reasoning). If our feelings conflict with our aql, we are taught to follow our aql rather than our feelings, and this is a clear teaching of Islam. Anyone who prefers their feelings over their aql in cases where there is a conflict is making the wrong decision. 

3. As for kafarra, I am not sure. Here is the post from Sayyid Mohammad Al Musawi. You can contact his office directly. I believe the office is in London

https://www.al-islam.org/ask/is-there-a-kaffara-for-supporting-someone-to-do-an-abortion

4. There is no such as thing as 'adoption' in Islam in the way it is conceived of in the West, i.e. that the adopted mother is now legally the mother and the birth mother has no rights to the child. In Islam, the birth mother is always and without exception the mother and always has the primary caretaker role for the child while she is alive. If she dies, and the birth father also dies, then the child can be adopted. 

6. I'm not sure how to respond to this. It's just a post with a bunch of comments. Please be more specific as to what your question is. 

If you are seeking advice, here's advice for you. I have three children, btw, three boys whom I raised with my wife. 

A. Don't go to Reddit for advice. You will just be more confused. Most of the posts on Reddit are by spam bots / trolls and there are many people on reddit who are pretending to be 'ulima' but actually have no knowledge of the religion. 

B. If you are really that uncomfortable with the idea of having a child, then in Islam you have the option to not have a child. There are very effective forms of birth control now (like 99.9% effective) and these are halal to use, of course. Any form of birth control that is non permeant (i.e .can be reversed) is halal to use. In the future, if you change your mind and feel that you can handle the situation, then you can do it at that point. 

C. Always keep in mind that 'Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) never burdens someone with something that they have no ability to bear'. This is in the Holy Quran. As a muslim, you need to believe this. If some situation happens, and you happen to get pregnant, even if (auzubillah and I sincerely hope this never happens to you) you are raped and conceive a child this way, if that happens that means that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has given you the ability to bear this test or trial. If you didn't have the ability to bear it, then it wouldn't happen to you. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is Just and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is the one who controls what events actually happen and what events don't happen. 

Imagine a situation where a mother conceived a child as a result of a rape. Instead of aborting the child, she decided to love the child, raise the child properly and do her best to overcome the trauma associated with the rape. What do you think would be the result of that women's action ? Bad results ? No, the child would grow up to be a happy and productive member of the society and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would elevate the status of that mother, both in the dunya and akhira because she was patient and did her best, despite the horrible circumstances in which that child was conceived. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) took her from being just a normal lady, to a preeminent lady of Paradise because of the choices she made, and because of the test she passed. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) created her in order to give her this position. Any women whom this happens to has the ability to make those same choices and get the same result. They can also make other ones. It is up to them. The same can be said of a women who delivers a child with a disability or birth defect. 

You seem to be accepting a fallacy which is pushed by certain groups in society that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is unjust and burdens people with things that they cannot bear so that because they are not bear them, they are forced into acts like suicide. Those who believe these things have no faith in God, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

The general concept regarding Abortion, from an Islamic Perspective, is that once the Ruh (the soul) enters into the fetus, which happens after approx 6 - 14 days from conception, i.e. when the fetus clings to the wall of the uterus, noone has the right to end the pregnancy after that point, because this fetus is now a human being, independent from the mother. This fetus has now been given life by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and this life is now a sacred human life, just like all human life is sacred. Abortion is allowed after this point only in very specific circumstances, where the life of the mother is at grave risk. 

The ones who say that this fetus (after clinging to the wall of the uterus) is not a human being, and that it is just an appendage of the mothers body, so the mother has the right to do what she wants with it are just speculating, and many of them don't even believe in the concept of a 'soul', much less in Islam as a religion. So if someone takes their opinion, they take them as their 'Awliyah', their leaders besides the marjaa'. As it says in the Holy Quran, anyone who takes the non believers as their 'Wali', their leaders, is surely one of them. So don't make this mistake. That is my advice. Salam. 

 

Salam alaikum.

 

So, tbh I don't know what to say after reading the responses. All I can conclude is that there's more sympathy for an unborn child than the girl or woman who was brutally raped. I'm honestly more disturbed rather than being informed about it. I mean for once I actually agree with the Sunni rulings of the permisibility of abortion for rape cases. After all rape is incredibly traumatising for all women to go through so why wouldn't it be halal to get an abortion. I mean, a girl or woman loving a child who was made by a rapist? Forced to carrying it because it's assumed to be a test from Allah?! Would you have said the same thing if that was one of your sisters, your mother, or even your own wife? Wouldn't you think that carrying for that baby could be a forever PTSD trigger for her? A thorn that will forever stain the woman even if her rapist got death sentenced. He'll forever let behind mark on her through a child. Or would you also think that they were raped because Allah wanted to test their sabr? Weird if you ask me.

I mean there's news going around of a ten year old who was raped in Ohio and got pregnant afterwards. Which forced her to travel to another state just to get an abortion. I mean yeah the girl isn't a Muslim and she's at the age of being baligh, but I would be very disturbed and surprised if the exemption of abortion in this case wouldn't be passed by scholars like Sistani. 

So honestly all I can interpret is that these comments here are easily said than done. I truly wonder if you guys would say the same thing if (God forbid) your female relatives got raped tell them right in the face that they need to carry them for 9 months.

 

And like @rkazmi33 I think I'd also much rather pay kaffara then force myself into carrying a rape baby knowing I never asked to have sex and a rapist impregnating me without consent. After all the only witness and one knows me the best is Allah. I don't believe that he's the one who causes women to get raped in order to test them. Rather it's the men who think with their 'free will' can touch women however they like and let them suffer.

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Guest Zen
On 6/29/2022 at 9:19 AM, Guest Abdul said:

و عليكم السلام 

Contact the Sayed sistani office directly, there are phone numbers on his website as your situation seems difficult and explain your issue and ask the questions. I highly doubt he will give you an exemption, as abortion is not permissible even at conception. You will have to pay a deeya (kafarra for killing someone accidentally or on purpose) to the father and do a lot of istegfar. 

May Allah help you.

By father, you don't mean the rapist right? Cause I'd happily pay kaffara if I knew abortion would be the only solution to get rid of my misery and trauma. Cause I might not even be married by then and yet the one who touched me and caused me to become pregnant was a rapist, a criminal. 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/6/2022 at 9:39 AM, Guest Zen said:

Salam alaikum.

 

So, tbh I don't know what to say after reading the responses. All I can conclude is that there's more sympathy for an unborn child than the girl or woman who was brutally raped. I'm honestly more disturbed rather than being informed about it. I mean for once I actually agree with the Sunni rulings of the permisibility of abortion for rape cases. After all rape is incredibly traumatising for all women to go through so why wouldn't it be halal to get an abortion. I mean, a girl or woman loving a child who was made by a rapist? Forced to carrying it because it's assumed to be a test from Allah?! Would you have said the same thing if that was one of your sisters, your mother, or even your own wife? Wouldn't you think that carrying for that baby could be a forever PTSD trigger for her? A thorn that will forever stain the woman even if her rapist got death sentenced. He'll forever let behind mark on her through a child. Or would you also think that they were raped because Allah wanted to test their sabr? Weird if you ask me.

I mean there's news going around of a ten year old who was raped in Ohio and got pregnant afterwards. Which forced her to travel to another state just to get an abortion. I mean yeah the girl isn't a Muslim and she's at the age of being baligh, but I would be very disturbed and surprised if the exemption of abortion in this case wouldn't be passed by scholars like Sistani. 

So honestly all I can interpret is that these comments here are easily said than done. I truly wonder if you guys would say the same thing if (God forbid) your female relatives got raped tell them right in the face that they need to carry them for 9 months.

 

And like @rkazmi33 I think I'd also much rather pay kaffara then force myself into carrying a rape baby knowing I never asked to have sex and a rapist impregnating me without consent. After all the only witness and one knows me the best is Allah. I don't believe that he's the one who causes women to get raped in order to test them. Rather it's the men who think with their 'free will' can touch women however they like and let them suffer.

Salam. I think you should rexamine your above statements in the light of clear teachings of Islam. Here is a verse from the Holy Quran which I think you should ponder on. 

أَحَسِبَ ٱلنَّاسُ أَن يُتْرَكُوٓا۟ أَن يَقُولُوٓا۟ ءَامَنَّا وَهُمْ لَا يُفْتَنُونَ

Do people think once they say, “We believe,” that they will be left without being put to the test?

Holy Quran 29:2

وَلَنَبْلُوَنَّكُم بِشَىْءٍ مِّنَ ٱلْخَوْفِ وَٱلْجُوعِ وَنَقْصٍ مِّنَ ٱلْأَمْوَٰلِ وَٱلْأَنفُسِ وَٱلثَّمَرَٰتِ وَبَشِّرِ ٱلصَّـٰبِرِينَ

And most certainly shall We test you by means  of danger, and hunger, and loss of worldly goods, of lives and of [labour's] fruits. But give glad tidings unto those who are patient in adversity

Holy Quran 2:155

وَلَنَبْلُوَنَّكُمْ حَتَّىٰ نَعْلَمَ ٱلْمُجَـٰهِدِينَ مِنكُمْ وَٱلصَّـٰبِرِينَ وَنَبْلُوَا۟ أَخْبَارَكُمْ

We shall test you to see which of you strive your hardest and are steadfast; We shall test the sincerity of your assertions

Holy Quran 47:31

AND one of my favorite verses in the Holy Quran to ponder over

أَمْ حَسِبْتُمْ أَن تَدْخُلُوا۟ ٱلْجَنَّةَ وَلَمَّا يَأْتِكُم مَّثَلُ ٱلَّذِينَ خَلَوْا۟ مِن قَبْلِكُم ۖ مَّسَّتْهُمُ ٱلْبَأْسَآءُ وَٱلضَّرَّآءُ وَزُلْزِلُوا۟ حَتَّىٰ يَقُولَ ٱلرَّسُولُ وَٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ مَعَهُۥ مَتَىٰ نَصْرُ ٱللَّهِ ۗ أَلَآ إِنَّ نَصْرَ ٱللَّهِ قَرِيبٌۭ

Or do you think that you will enter Paradise while such [trial] has not yet come to you as came to those who passed on before you? They were touched by poverty and hardship and were shaken until [even their] messenger and those who believed with him said, "When is the help of Allāh?" Surely, the help of Allāh is near.

Holy Quran 2:214

 

Definitely having a child from a rape is a hard test, but it is not harder than other tests which others have gone thru. Ask those who were born blind, or deaf, or with a severe handicap. Ask those who were repeatedly abused either physically or sexually by their parents or others from a young age. Ask those who grew up in extreme poverty. Everyone is tested in one way or another. The verses above prove definitely that this will happen, and that people don't choose the way they will be tested. If they could, everyone would choose the easiest test. It's not what happens to you that defines who you are, it's how you deal with what happens to you that defines who you are. 

BTW, if this did happen to my mother, or sister, or wife, I definitely wouldn't reveal it here, on a public website, and defame them. Do you really think someone with an ounce of self respect or respect for their relatives would do that ? Again, we wish this never happens to any one of our sisters, but if it does, that doesn't give them an excuse to go outside of the Sharia. This is a hard test, and there are many other hard tests. 

As for the Sunni ruling, I haven't seen a ruling like this. I am not saying there isn't one, but if there is it is inconsistent with the teaching of Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)). The teachings are clear, once the soul enters the fetus (which happens from 6 to 14 days after conception), terminating the pregnancy after that point is haram, unless the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother. Terminating the pregnancy after that point would be killing a soul which Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has willed to be alive. A major sin. The reason why an exception is made for the life of the mother is because the mother is also a soul which Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has willed to be alive, and the life of the mother is more important, again according to the teachings of the Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)). So if the only option is to choose between the life of the mother and the life of the child, we should choose the life of the mother. 

Also, 'in the case of rape' is not a 100% clear cut issue in all cases. There are women who are definitely raped, and there are women who put themselves in a position to be taken advantage of by a man, and because they took steps to possibly have intimate relations with the man, then maybe changed their mind after it was too late, that does not mean this is a rape. It is a sin, zina, which is something that can be 'fixed' thru doing tauba (seeking forgiveness from Allah(s.w.a)). The problem is that some women don't want to admit that they did this, so they will call this 'rape' and place the blame 100% on the man when the blame is actually on both of them. In any case, the child should not be punished for the sin of the mother, and the father. That would be unjust. 

There are also grey areas in between rape and zina. A women may try to convince herself afterward that she was raped, when in fact she did zina. So saying abortion is allowed in the case of rape is assuming that all these cases are rape and that in this case punishing the child is halal. Even in the case of an actual rape, where the women is completely innocent and is forced at gunpoint, knifepoint, etc, to be intimate with the attacker, even in this case, it is not ok to end the life of the child because of the crime of the man. The child is still innocent, and this is a test for the women who was attacked. If she passes this test, Paradise awaits her. 

Edited by Abu Hadi
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