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In the Name of God بسم الله

Detailed Biography of Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h) from Shia Perspective

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Very Good and very detailed series of lectures on this topic by Sayyid Baqir Al Qazwini. I am currently watching it lecture by lecture. If anyone would like to discuss an episode, we can discuss here. I think this should be required listening for all brothers and sisters. 

 

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I learned so much from this series. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) continue to bless Sayyid Muhammad Baqir Qazwini for doing this series. Im sure it required many months or maybe even years of research and preparation. 

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I love this series, Sayed Qazwini has discussed very interesting topics. Some controversial ones as well. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless him and his family. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) bless all those who learn from him as well. 

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Thank you for sharing. I imagine the Shiekh is drawing from Arabic and Farsi sources, and thus not accessible to English speaking audiences? 

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8 hours ago, 313_Waiter said:

There’s so many Biography series, I do not know which one to choose from.

There are many, but I like this one for four reasons. 

1) It is very detailed and organized. Each individual topic is it's own video. So if you are only interested in one aspect, and you already know about another one, it's easy to skip ones and focus more on others

2) He uses original sources (such as Al Kafi, Serat of Ibn Hisham, etc) which are in the original language (mostly Arabic) and translates into English from those sources. I know enough Arabic to know that he is doing very accurate translations, as accurate as possible when going from one language to another. 

3) His style of speaking is very casual and very relatable, especially for the younger people. Since he grew up in the US, he is speaking without an accent. Personally, accents don't bother me, as long as I can understand what is being said but for most people they would rather hear these lectures in their own accent (if they are American of course). 

4) He gives the viewpoint of Jaafari School (Shia) but he is also very familiar with the Sunni viewpoints on these topics. There are very few detailed biographies of Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) given from the Jaafari view, in English. Almost all of them that are out there in English are from the Sunni perspective, so they take ridiculous hadith like those from Abu Huraira and leave the listener confused. This one doesn't do that. 

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16 minutes ago, Abu Hadi said:

There are many, but I like this one for four reasons. 

1) It is very detailed and organized. Each individual topic is it's own video. So if you are only interested in one aspect, and you already know about another one, it's easy to skip ones and focus more on others

2) He uses original sources (such as Al Kafi, Serat of Ibn Hisham, etc) which are in the original language (mostly Arabic) and translates into English from those sources. I know enough Arabic to know that he is doing very accurate translations, as accurate as possible when going from one language to another. 

3) His style of speaking is very casual and very relatable, especially for the younger people. Since he grew up in the US, he is speaking without an accent. Personally, accents don't bother me, as long as I can understand what is being said but for most people they would rather hear these lectures in their own accent (if they are American of course). 

4) He gives the viewpoint of Jaafari School (Shia) but he is also very familiar with the Sunni viewpoints on these topics. There are very few detailed biographies of Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) given from the Jaafari view, in English. Almost all of them that are out there in English are from the Sunni perspective, so they take ridiculous hadith like those from Abu Huraira and leave the listener confused. This one doesn't do that. 

Alright I’m sold. 

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Salaam

I listened to the first few lectures and I plan to listen to all of them.

A couple of questions arose. 1 - In one of the earlier lectures, the Shiekh dismisses oral tradition as untrustworthy. This is a curious thing to say as oral tradition is the foundation of all of Islamic knowledge. I’m not sure why he said that. 
 

2 - The Shiekh places the blame heavily on the Umayyad establishment as fabricating Hadith that made the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) appear inferior to his actual stature. I’m just honesty curious if there are any scholarly works that have discussed this in length. It’s easy to simply say this to fit the Shia narrative, but I’m curious how it holds up to scholarly scrutiny.

 

I am on lecture 4 at the moment, and the Shiekh is covering the origins of seerah though Ibn Hisham and Ibn Ishaq.

 

 

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He gives the reason why oral traditions are untrustworthy. It is because human memory is not 100% accurate when it comes to language. So if you heard something from someone else, this person you heard it from might not have heard it 100% accurately and then you heard it, then you told someone else this inaccurate quote, etc. Oral traditions are fine when it comes to transmitting cultural things like stories, etc, but when it comes to religion, there are very specific points that if they are told inaccurately might destroy someone's life or their faith if they act on them or use them as a basis of their beliefs. That is why Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in the Quran always talks about kitab, book, in terms of religion. Because a book that is written down and which everyone can refer to is the only proper way to transmit religious knowledge and teachings. 

The Umayyeds and the Abbasids did fabricate thousands of hadith. This is a fact. They wanted to make the Prophet seem inferior in order to justify their own actions. They wanted to bring the Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h) down to their level of sometimes acting based on conjecture and making mistakes because they had big egos and didn't believe there were any human beings in the past or the present who were superior to them. Both Shia and Sunni say this. The only difference is that Sunnis believe that these fabricated traditions didn't make it into their Sahih books. We disagree with them on that and we have evidence that is indisputable for that. This is what the Sheik is saying. 

 

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Thanks for the recommendation,  I will watch it inshaAllah once I am finished with another seerah series by Sayyid Ali Imran:

 

I highly recommend this series because in addition to describing the seerah in an interesting and understandable manner the speaker also incorporates some extremely important lessons which we as Muslims need to think about and look into implementing today (notion of ummah vs nationalism, the role of the masjid and salaah in our communities, our role in welcoming Muslim refugees in the way that the ansar welcomed the muhajireen, etc)

It shocks me that these videos only have 100 odd views while unislamic nonsense such as The Shia Voice gathered 100s of thousands of views during the Holy month of Ramadhan. Truly embarrassing. 

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9 hours ago, Mahdavist said:

Thanks for the recommendation,  I will watch it inshaAllah once I am finished with another seerah series by Sayyid Ali Imran:

 

I highly recommend this series because in addition to describing the seerah in an interesting and understandable manner the speaker also incorporates some extremely important lessons which we as Muslims need to think about and look into implementing today (notion of ummah vs nationalism, the role of the masjid and salaah in our communities, our role in welcoming Muslim refugees in the way that the ansar welcomed the muhajireen, etc)

It shocks me that these videos only have 100 odd views while unislamic nonsense such as The Shia Voice gathered 100s of thousands of views during the Holy month of Ramadhan. Truly embarrassing. 

I will watch that once I am finished with this one InShahAllah

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On 6/10/2022 at 11:44 AM, 313_Waiter said:

There’s so many Biography series, I do not know which one to choose from.

I would also recommend Sayed Ammar Nakshawani's series about the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Here's the link to the whole playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNrKzQzpLk8AKAa6dxDoGw5OpQCrEC-v3

 

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Salaamw

15 hours ago, Abu Hadi said:

He gives the reason why oral traditions are untrustworthy. It is because human memory is not 100% accurate when it comes to language. So if you heard something from someone else, this person you heard it from might not have heard it 100% accurately and then you heard it, then you told someone else this inaccurate quote, etc. Oral traditions are fine when it comes to transmitting cultural things like stories, etc, but when it comes to religion, there are very specific points that if they are told inaccurately might destroy someone's life or their faith if they act on them or use them as a basis of their beliefs. That is why Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in the Quran always talks about kitab, book, in terms of religion. Because a book that is written down and which everyone can refer to is the only proper way to transmit religious knowledge and teachings. 

The Umayyeds and the Abbasids did fabricate thousands of hadith. This is a fact. They wanted to make the Prophet seem inferior in order to justify their own actions. They wanted to bring the Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h) down to their level of sometimes acting based on conjecture and making mistakes because they had big egos and didn't believe there were any human beings in the past or the present who were superior to them. Both Shia and Sunni say this. The only difference is that Sunnis believe that these fabricated traditions didn't make it into their Sahih books. We disagree with them on that and we have evidence that is indisputable for that. This is what the Sheik is saying. 

 

Brother, oral tradition is how Quran was primarily recited during the lifetime of our Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and subsequent generations until it was finally written in book form under Uthman. I understand within the Shia tradition, Imam Ali(عليه السلام) concurrently wrote down the Quran during his lifetime, but historically I don’t think there’s any use of said Quran as a cross reference tool when it was finally written during the Khalifa of Uthman. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong here. 
 

Anyway, my point is the oral tradition was the bedrock of how the Quran was passed through a couple of generations so I’m finding it difficult to reconcile how it be unreliable and problematic when it was very means through which the Holy Book was transmitted.

With respect to the second point. I don’t doubt for a second that the Ummayads and Abbasids forged Hadith sympathetic to their claims of Khalifat. However I have two questions on this. 1. Neither Umar or Abu Bakr were Ummayad, so what motive would there be to forge Hadith in their favor 2. I’m strictly interested in reading scholarly material on this which is why I asked. I enjoy listening to sacred history as shared by our scholars, yet it’s always a nice boost of iman and satisfaction of curiosity if it can be confirmed through a scholarly work. So if you happen to have any written resources, i appreciate it if you would share. 
 

That aside, I am on lecture 15 at the moment. It seems this is aimed as a very high level biography, with a heavy dose of polemics built in. It’s cool, but so far it is difficult to connect on a spiritual level as the Shiekh spends a lot of time dismissing and dunking on the Sunni narrative. 

 

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8 hours ago, Guest Fahad said:

Salaamw

Brother, oral tradition is how Quran was primarily recited during the lifetime of our Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and subsequent generations until it was finally written in book form under Uthman. I understand within the Shia tradition, Imam Ali(عليه السلام) concurrently wrote down the Quran during his lifetime, but historically I don’t think there’s any use of said Quran as a cross reference tool when it was finally written during the Khalifa of Uthman. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong here. 
 

Anyway, my point is the oral tradition was the bedrock of how the Quran was passed through a couple of generations so I’m finding it difficult to reconcile how it be unreliable and problematic when it was very means through which the Holy Book was transmitted.

With respect to the second point. I don’t doubt for a second that the Ummayads and Abbasids forged Hadith sympathetic to their claims of Khalifat. However I have two questions on this. 1. Neither Umar or Abu Bakr were Ummayad, so what motive would there be to forge Hadith in their favor 2. I’m strictly interested in reading scholarly material on this which is why I asked. I enjoy listening to sacred history as shared by our scholars, yet it’s always a nice boost of iman and satisfaction of curiosity if it can be confirmed through a scholarly work. So if you happen to have any written resources, i appreciate it if you would share. 
 

That aside, I am on lecture 15 at the moment. It seems this is aimed as a very high level biography, with a heavy dose of polemics built in. It’s cool, but so far it is difficult to connect on a spiritual level as the Shiekh spends a lot of time dismissing and dunking on the Sunni narrative. 

 

1. The Quran was written down completely during the lifetime of the Prophet(p.b.u.h). All these writings were compiled into a single book, the Quran we have today, immediately following the death of the Holy Prophet by Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) himself. The Quran was a written book which was known by everyone from the beginning, not generations afterward. Yes, you are wrong on that point. There are written ayats from Quran that exist today that were dated (by Carbon 14 dating, which is extremely accurate) to the lifetime of the Holy Prophet and none of these texts contradict the text of the Quran we have today. That in itself is a miracle which people should ponder on.

During the time of Uthman, the accent marks on the tops of the letters (the spoken vowels) were standardized so that when the Quran was recited, it was recited in the same way. That is because different parts of the Arabic world had slightly different ways of pronouncing words. If you look at the earliest written texts of the Quran, they didn't contain the accent marks because the Arabs of Mecca, Medina and surrounding areas pronounced in the same way, so they didn't need the accent marks to tell them how to pronounce words. It was only when the Quran began to spread outside this area to places like the Khalij, Egypt, Iraq, etc, where they pronounced the words differently that it needed to be standardized. That is the only thing that happened during the time of Uthman. In addition, there were more written Qurans that were published during that time because Uthman employed more scribes to copy the text because the wealth of the muslims was increasing during that time, but the text of the Quran existed from the beginning. The statement that Uthman was the first to write down the Quran and publish it is wrong. 

2. Abu Bakr forbid hadiths to be written down, and Umar followed the same policy, so there are very few hadith texts that actually date from that time. They also destroyed many hadith that were written down that were in favor of Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) and Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)). It was during the time of Muawiya that hadiths started to be forged on a large scale and he (Muawiya(la)) attributed the transmission of these  hadith posthumously to various sahaba and wives of the prophet. 

We get our hadith from Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)), and most from Imam Jaafar Sadiq((عليه السلام)). That is why we are called Jaafari, because it was during his time (when the power of the Ummayads was on the decline and eventually collapsed and the Abbasids did not yet have a firm grip on power) that the Imam((عليه السلام)) had some amount of freedom to confirm the truth of certain hadith, announce others as forged, and for books of authentic hadith to be written down and disseminated. 

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14 hours ago, -Rejector- said:

I would also recommend Sayed Ammar Nakshawani's series about the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). Here's the link to the whole playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNrKzQzpLk8AKAa6dxDoGw5OpQCrEC-v3

 

Yes this was the other one that I was thinking of watching, other than the one that br. mahdavist mentioned

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Salaam Abu Hadi,

I appreciate your long and detailed responses. I won't push back further on the Qur'an point. And I'd have to dig in deeper on the oral tradition conversation to be able to contribute substantively. 

With respect to the your point about Abu Bakr & Umar forbidding hadith, I imagine the Shia argument is that this was done with ill intentions, whereas the Sunnis would argue that it was done with the potential for confusion and overlap with Quranic verses?

Lastly, I imagine that your explanations are primarily derived from lectures such as this, correct? I only ask because if you happen to have any resources that would elaborate further on any of your points, it would appreciated if you can share.

Thank you.

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7 hours ago, Guest Fahad said:

 

With respect to the your point about Abu Bakr & Umar forbidding hadith, I imagine the Shia argument is that this was done with ill intentions, whereas the Sunnis would argue that it was done with the potential for confusion and overlap with Quranic verses?

 

Alekum Salam was RahmantuLah,

I try not to guess what is in someone's mind because there is no way to know that. We can only look at actions and results of those actions. The action of Abu Bakr and Umar may have lessened confusion around the issue of hadith, but we know for sure that it stopped many authentic hadith from being written down at an early period, when these hadith were still fresh in the mind of many of the Sahaba, and there was agreement as to what these hadith were, as Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) was alive just a few years before. If hadith were written down during this period, they would have served as an agreed upon basis for studying hadith and I think there would be much more agreement amoung Muslims about what Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h) actually said and did. The fact that there is so much fitna and disagreement today is a direct result of hadith not being written down early, immediately following the passing of Rasoulallah(p.b.u.h), Al Mustafa, the Pinnacle of Allah(s.w.a)'s creation. So whatever their motivation was, this was the result. 

A simple proof of that is that there is no disagreement amoung Muslims about the text of the Holy Quran. As our Imams((عليه السلام)) have taught over and over, the Quran is the one 'between the covers' in other words the Quran that is in every masjid from Qum to Halab, from Mecca to Sana', from Quetta to Paris. Noone disagrees about that. If we had the same agreement, or at least a portion of that agreement about what hadith are authentic and which are not, most of the fitna we have today wouldn't exist. 

As for where I get this from, it is from the lecture series I posted as well as others which have been mentioned here, and some which haven't been mentioned. Also, there are many books on the subject written by Ulema, which are the primary sources used in the lectures and lecture series. 

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8 hours ago, Guest Fahad said:

With respect to the your point about Abu Bakr & Umar forbidding hadith, I imagine the Shia argument is that this was done with ill intentions, whereas the Sunnis would argue that it was done with the potential for confusion and overlap with Quranic verses?

Indeed, watch the following video where the syed gives the both viewpoints with their both arguments. The more important is that this ban actually gave bad effect to all Muslim with disputes, qiyas and fabrication of hadiths. 

 

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13 hours ago, Guest Fahad said:

I appreciate your long and detailed responses. I won't push back further on the Qur'an point. And I'd have to dig in deeper on the oral tradition conversation to be able to contribute substantively. 

With respect to the your point about Abu Bakr & Umar forbidding hadith, I imagine the Shia argument is that this was done with ill intentions, whereas the Sunnis would argue that it was done with the potential for confusion and overlap with Quranic verses?

Lastly, I imagine that your explanations are primarily derived from lectures such as this, correct? I only ask because if you happen to have any resources that would elaborate further on any of your points, it would appreciated if you can share.

Thank you.

Salam

Chapter 7: Prohibition of Transcribing the Hadith

Quote

When Islam came, its teachings prioritized writing and the advancement of knowledge and imagery of books and writing permeate the verses of the Qur’an. One of the first verses which Allah revealed was, “[He] Who taught by the use of the pen,”2 thus making the pen as an instrument used for a binding oath, such as in Surah al-Qalam, “By the pen and by what they write.”3 Therefore, despite the difficulties of writing at that time, gradually the jahiliyyah (pre-Islamic) society slowly became literate.

After establishing the mosque in Madinah, one of the priorities of the Prophet had was to appoint a teacher, Abdullah Ibn Sa’d al-Aas to teach reading and writing. This skill was so important that the Prophet even allowed some of the captives taken during the Battle of Badr to earn their freedom in exchange for teaching ten Muslims how to read and write.4

Most significant, the Prophet commanded that his hadith (sayings and actions) be written down.

Quote

He instructed the Muslims, “Write everything that comes out of my mouth, for by the One whose Hands my soul is in, nothing comes from it except the truth.”8 Abu Bakr narrates from the Holy Prophet that, “Whoever writes down a piece of knowledge from me or a hadith will receive ajr (reward) as long as it (the writing) exists.”9

https://www.al-islam.org/when-power-and-piety-collide-sayyid-moustafa-al-qazwini/chapter-7-prohibition-transcribing-hadith

Stages Of The Prohibition Of Recording The Hadith

(1) The Hadith Circulated Increasingly

Quote

Accordingly, it is probable that Abu-Bakr’s famous saying (“You are reporting from the Messenger of Allah matters about which you are discrepant. People who will come after you will be more discrepant that you are.”) carried an indication to the multiplicity of trends during his reign and the Sahabah’s having adopted private views, which were different from the others’.

This was the very reason behind the extension of the discrepancies among the Muslims that occurred later on. The reporting of Hadith was thus a very strong trend whose influence can be clearly understood from `Umar ibn al-Khattab’s famous saying, “You have reported very much Hadith from the Messenger of Allah,” and from the statement of Ibn Sa`d, in al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, that reads, “During the reign of `Umar ibn al-Khattab, the Hadiths were noticeably big in number,” and from the statement of al-Khatib al-Baghdadiy, in Taqyid al-`Ilm, that reads, “When `Umar knew that people had kept books of Hadith...” as well as many other historical texts.

(2) Abu-Bakr Prohibited The Reporting And Set Fire To His Book Of Hadith

(3) `Umar Ordered The Sahabah To Reduce Reporting The Hadith

(4) `Umar Collected And Set Fire To The Sahabah’s Records Of Hadith

(5) `Umar Detained Some Of The Sahabah And Ordered The All To Stop Reporting And Recording The Hadith

(6) The Two Caliphs Restricted The Religious Affairs To The Holy Qur’an

(7) `Umar Allowed The Sahabah To Practice Ijtihad And Act Upon Analogy

(8) `Umar Attempted To Restrict The Ijtihad

https://www.al-islam.org/prohibition-recording-hadith-causes-and-effects-sayyid-ali-al-shahristani/stages-prohibition

Quote

Sunni scholars justify the policy in terms of precluding any possible confusions between hadiths and the Qur'an, preventing disputes among Muslims, preventing people from being engaged in anything other than the Qur'an, and illiteracy of transmitters of hadiths. Shiite scholars, however, believe that the ban was enforced out of a motivation for preventing the propagation of Imam 'Ali's virtues and as an attempt at the establishment of the religious rule of the caliphs.

According to Shi'as, the hadith ban led to fabrication of hadiths, destruction of many early hadiths, formation of Islamic denominations, and distortions of the tradition of the Prophet (s).

 

Quote

In his book, Man' tadwin al-hadith (the ban on the collection of hadiths), however, Shahristani claims that the majority of Shiite authors take the main motivation for the hadith ban to be the prevention of propagating the virtues of Imam 'Ali (a). One piece of evidence they appeal to is what Al-Nasa'i, an author of al-Sihah al-Sitta, quoted from Ibn 'Abbas: they left the tradition of the Prophet (s) out of their animus towards Imam 'Ali (a). Other motivations of the ban are said to be the caliphs' insufficient knowledge of religious rulings and their attempts at establishment of their religious rule, in addition to their political rule.

 

Quote

Consequences

According to Shiite scholars, the ban on hadith writing had significant negative repercussions, including the destruction of early texts of hadiths, fabrication of hadiths, changes in the Prophet's tradition, and the formation of Islamic denominations.

  • Destruction of early texts of hadiths: the Prophet's words scribed by his close companions were destroyed and made unavailable in this period. According to 'A'ishaAbu Bakr burned down five hundred hadiths from the Prophet (s). Moreover, hadiths memorized by some companions were never written down because of the hadith ban, and thus they became unavailable after their deaths.
  • Fabrication of hadiths: when the policy of the hadith ban was enforced and the Prophet's hadiths were destroyed, citation of fabricated hadiths and their attribution to the Prophet (s) became rampant. For instance, hadiths were fabricated and attributed to the Prophet (s) in order to conjure up virtues for some political and religious figures, some of whom were born after the Prophet's demise. Fabricated hadiths were so prolific that Sahih al-Bukhari includes 2761 non-repetitive hadiths selected from among nearly 600,000 hadiths, and Sahih Muslim includes 4000 non-repetitive hadiths selected from among 300,000 hadiths, as claimed by their authors.
  • Changes in the Prophet's tradition: some people suggest that the ban on the collection of hadiths led to changes in the Prophet's tradition. To show this, appeals are made to some historical reports, including what al-Shafi'i, the leader of Shafi'is, quoted from Wahab b. Kaysan: all traditions of the Prophet (s), including the Prayer, were distorted.
  • Formation of Islamic denominations: when the tradition was destroyed and fabricated hadiths were rampant, different denominations as well as theological and jurisprudential schools began to appear. For each personal dispute was accompanied by a fabricated hadith, leading to the separation of a group of people from the Islamic community and the establishment of a new denomination.

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Hadith_Ban

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The Reasons Given for the Prohibition of compiling Hadith

By: Rasul Ja'fariyan

The Reasons Given for the Prohibition
1. One reason offered is the fear for the people’s failure to distinguish between the holy Quran and Hadith of the holy Prophet (S) which would result in the corruption (Tahrif) of the Quranic text, an unforgivable offence.1
Ustadh Abu Riyyah has rejected this weak argument in the following words: Such a reason may appear convincing to ordinary people, but a researcher cannot accepted it, because it would suggest that the eloquence of the Quran stands on the same level as that of Hadith.2
In his proposition if the miracle of Quranic eloquence is understandable for the people, how they would have mixed Hadith of the holy Prophet (S), which stand on a lower level of eloquence than the holy Quran, with the verses of the Holy Book. Such a viewpoint, in fact, amounts to a denial of the miraculous character of the holy Quran.
In fact, to believe in the possibility of a mix between the holy Quran and Hadith is to believe in the possibility of textual corruption finding way into the holy Quran. Such a belief is unfounded; God Almighty has personally guaranteed the incorruptibility of the holy Quran: Verily, We have sent down al-Dhikr, the holy Quran, and verily We are its protector. (15:9)

Quote

2. According to abu-Riyyah, let it be accepted that the prohibition came from the holy Prophet (S) to keep the laws of the Shari’ah within restricted limits and was opposed to the proliferation of Ahadith. 

This argument is very weak. It is not possible to accept that the Prophet (S) opposed the increase in Hadith as the basis of the legal system of the Shari’ah. How can it be accepted when the holy Quran and the Sunnah are to answer the variegated needs for law to the Day of Judgement and to offer constant guidance to man? Moreover, there is no evidence that the holy Prophet (S) ever issued such a prohibition on the writing down of Hadith.

 

Quote

3. Al-‘Awza’i, offering another explanation, writes, “The science of Hadith is a noble one when it is transmitted orally. Such method always keeps the people engaged in reminding one another of Hadith. But, when written, their light would fade and they may fall into unworthy hands.”4

In fact, al-‘Awza’i himself has invented this explanation and it is doubtful whether those who prohibited the writing of Hadith had considered it or not.

 

Quote

4. Ibn ‘Abd al-Birr, offering an explanation similar to the above one, writes, “The writing of Ahadith was prohibited so that individuals should not rely solely on what they have written and would abstain from memorizing them. In that case, the task of memorizing Hadith would diminish altogether.5

This rationale is also unacceptable, because the losses resulting from the failure to write Hadith were incomparably serious and far greater than such benefits. Human civilization and values have been guarded through the written word and not by means of memory, although the memorization of Hadith is in itself a very valuable practice.

 

 

Quote

5. Another explanation that is given in this regard is that had Hadith been written down the people would have abandoned the holy Quran to give all their attention to Hadith6

This argument is also not defendable, because the same thing could be said of oral Hadith and the holy Quran. It is true that exclusive attention to Hadith is a deviation. People vulnerable to such matters can be warned and asked to take an equal interest in the holy Quran. T

 

 

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6. The author of Abjad al-‘ulum writes, “The Sahabah and the Tabi’un did not need to write Hadith and the laws for the following reasons: Their faith was pure and they had the blessing of proximity to the times of the holy Prophet (S).

The spread of Islam occurred in the first twenty, or at the most fifty, years after the demise of the holy Prophet (S), whereas the writing and compilation of Hadith was delayed until the latter part of the first half of the 2nd/8th century. Aside from these two points it is well known that fabrication of Hadith in the name of the Prophet (S) began in his (S) own lifetime, and it naturally increased in the absence of recorded in written form of Hadith.

 

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7. The actual reason behind the prohibition on the writing of Hadith, was what has been advanced by a contemporary scholar, Sayyid Ja’far Murtada, and is confirmed by the evidence available. He says, “There existed two sects among the Jews, of which one believed in a written literature. The other believed that nothing except the Torah should be committed to writing. The second group was called Qurra’ (Readers).

Ka’b al-‘Ahbar, a Jewish convert to Islam, belonged to this second sect. Once asked a question by ‘Umar about poetry, of the things he says about Arabs is that a group of the descendants of Isma’il carried the Gospel only in their hearts and spoke with wisdom…. It is probable that the Caliph had taken the idea (of not writing anything except the holy Quran) from Ka’b al-‘Ahbar. ‘Umar had very intimate terms with Ka’b al-‘Ahbar and respected his opinions.

behind the prohibition on writing Hadith. The most important was the influence of the views of Ahl al-Kitab over the Second Caliph, who, it seems, liked to read their books since the time of his conversion.

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The Riwayah of ‘Urwah ibn al-Zubayr confirms this influence. According to this Riwayahthe Caliph had first intended to have the ‘Sunan’ compiled and he even consulted the Companions about his plan. They approved it, but he changed his mind with the argument that the Ahl al-Kitab had abandoned their scripture for other books that they had written and that he would not allow something similar to happen with the holy Quran.9

 

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‘Umar’s argument against the writing of Hadith came to be echoed by others. Abu Burdah reports from his father that he said: “Banu Isma’il wrote books and abandoned the Divine Scripture”.10 Hakam ibn ‘Atiyyah narrated from Muhammad (probably, Muhammad ibn Sirin) that he used to say, “It has been narrated that Banu Israel were led into error on account of the books that they inherited from their ancestors besides the Torah.”11

Another scholar writes, “One of the major influences that the Jews incorporated among the Muslims was the latter’s practice of refraining from writing Hadith. It is written in the Talmud, “You have no right to write things, which you narrate orally.” It is not improbable that the Muslims were motivated by Ka’b al-‘Ahbar in this matter, although they set it forth in the fond of a Prophetic Hadith.

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An evidence of such influence is the declaration of the Caliph after burning the Ahadith that had collected saying, “Not a Mishnat like the Mishnat of the People of the Book.”12 These words show a form of influence from the practice of the Jews.
Abu ‘Ubayd, in his Gharib al-Hadith, writes, “I asked a scholar learned in the Torah and Gospel about the word ‘Mishnat’ He said, “The rabbis and doctors of Banu Israel wrote certain books after Moses, aside from the Scripture and called it ‘Mishna’.”

Obviously the Caliph had liked the practice of the group of Jews of the opposite camp to the writers of ‘Mishna’. 

https://www.imamreza.net/old/eng/imamreza.php?id=12770

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On 6/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Abu Hadi said:

The Quran was written down completely during the lifetime of the Prophet(p.b.u.h).

In the Blessed Prophet’s (peace and blessings be upon him) time the Qur’an was not preserved in book form rather it was written on parchments of hides, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms. Also, the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) encouraged many Companions (may Allah be pleased with them) memorise the Qur’an. Memorizers of Quran also recited the verses of Quran in presence of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) in order to make sure of their accuracy. Through this method, a large number of companions learnt the correct recitation of Quran and among them seven persons became famed in this regard. Suyuti writes: Among those who recited the Quran in the presence of the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), seven became more famed; they were: Uthman bin Affan, Ali ibn Abu Talib, Ubayy ibn Ka'b, Zaid ibn Thabit, Abdullah ibn Masud, Abu Darda' al-Ansari and Abu Musa Ashari.

In the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) also arranged the sequences of the verses and Surahs.  Ayaat (verses) and Surahs (chapters) were decided by the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) directly. He decided where an Ayah should be placed. He also determined which compilation of Ayah completes a particular Surah.

The following hadith gives the full details.

Narrated By Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari: Who was one of those who used to write the Divine Revelation: Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra’ (those who know the Qur’an by heart) were killed). ‘Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said, ‘Umar has come to me and said, the people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among the Qurra’ (those who know the Qur’an by heart) at other battle-fields, whereby a large part of the Qur’an may be lost, unless you collect it. And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur’an.” Abu Bakr added, “I said to ‘Umar, ‘How can I do something which Allah’s Apostle has not done?’ ‘Umar said (to me), ‘By Allah, it is (really) a good thing.’ So ‘Umar kept on pressing, trying to persuade me to accept his proposal, till Allah opened my bosom for it and I had the same opinion as ‘Umar.” (Zaid bin Thabit added:) Umar was sitting with him (Abu Bakr) and was not speaking.

“You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness): and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah’s Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur’an and collect it (in one manuscript).” By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur’an. I said to both of them, “How dare you do a thing which the Prophet has not done?” Abu Bakr said, “By Allah, it is (really) a good thing.” So, I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and Umar. So, I started locating Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuzaima two Verses of Surat-at-Tauba which I had not found with anybody else, (and they were):

Verily there has come to you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty He (Muhammad) is ardently anxious over you (to be rightly guided)” (9.128) The manuscript on which the Quran was collected, remained with Abu Bakr till Allah took him unto Him, and then with ‘Umar till Allah took him unto Him, and finally it remained with Hafsa, Umar’s daughter. Bukhari: Book 6: Volume 60: Hadith 201

On 6/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Abu Hadi said:

All these writings were compiled into a single book, the Quran we have today, immediately following the death of the Holy Prophet by Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) himself.

This is not true.

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Among Shia Ulama, there are 2 opinions which we explained:

1. People like Ayatollah Khoei, Allama Jafar Murtada al-Amili and others believe that indeed, the Holy Quran was compiled in book form during the time of Rasulullah (SAWA).

2. Allama Tabataba’I and a number of other scholars believe the opposite i.e., the compilation of the Holy Quran in book form did not occur during the time of Rasulullah (SAWA). They believe that this compilation of the Holy Quran in book form took a long period of time and occurred much later. In my very humble understanding, this opinion appears to be more heavily consistent with historical records.

It is recorded that Hz. Ali ibn Abu Talib (may Allah be pleased with him) compiled the Qur’an in chronological order of revelation.

So, what happened with his compilation?

Unfortunately, this compilation of the Holy Quran which Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)) presented was not entertained, and quite frankly ignored. So, he went back home with his compilation.

“According to the history of Islam from a Shia perspective, this compilation of Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)) became one of the special trusts which is connected with the Imams of Ahlul Bait ((عليه السلام)). This particular compilation got transferred from Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)) down the chain of Imamate, and is currently in the custody of our living Imam Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف).” THE QURAN COMPILED BY IMAM ALI & STANDARDIZATION

 

https://afosa.org/the-quran-compiled-by-imam-ali-a-s-its-later-standardization/

The above link gives very information about compilation of the Blessed Qur’an from Shia perspective.

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On 6/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Abu Hadi said:

The Quran was a written book which was known by everyone from the beginning, not generations afterward.

The Blessed Qur’an was compiled in book form in the time of Hz. Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him)

On 6/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Abu Hadi said:

Yes, you are wrong on that point. There are written ayats from Quran that exist today that were dated (by Carbon 14 dating, which is extremely accurate) to the lifetime of the Holy Prophet and none of these texts contradict the text of the Quran we have today. That in itself is a miracle which people should ponder on.

“Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur’an and indeed, We will be its guardian.” Verse 9 Surah al-Hijr

Useful reading:

Sunni Source:

https://www.islamicity.org/17075/the-quran-history-of-its-compilation/

Sunni Sources:

http://shiastudies.com/en/3753/the-quran-compiled-by-imam-ali-a-s/

Revelation and Preservation of Quran Al-Islam.org

https://www.al-islam.org/prophethood-and-prophet-islam-ibrahim-amini/revelation-and-preservation-quran

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On 6/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Abu Hadi said:

During the time of Uthman, the accent marks on the tops of the letters (the spoken vowels) were standardized so that when the Quran was recited, it was recited in the same way. That is because different parts of the Arabic world had slightly different ways of pronouncing words. If you look at the earliest written texts of the Quran, they didn't contain the accent marks because the Arabs of Mecca, Medina and surrounding areas pronounced in the same way, so they didn't need the accent marks to tell them how to pronounce words. It was only when the Quran began to spread outside this area to places like the Khalij, Egypt, Iraq, etc, where they pronounced the words differently that it needed to be standardized. That is the only thing that happened during the time of Uthman. In addition, there were more written Qurans that were published during that time because Uthman employed more scribes to copy the text because the wealth of the muslims was increasing during that time, but the text of the Quran existed from the beginning. The statement that Uthman was the first to write down the Quran and publish it is wrong. 

Following hadith confirms what you have written

Narrated Anas bin Malik:  Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to `Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to `Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Qur'an) as Jews and the Christians did before." So `Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to `Uthman. `Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, `Abdullah bin AzZubair, Sa`id bin Al-As and `AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. `Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, `Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. `Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Sahih al-Bukhari 4987

On 6/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Abu Hadi said:

2. Abu Bakr forbid hadiths to be written down, and Umar followed the same policy, so there are very few hadith texts that actually date from that time.

As these were early days, there is narration from Hz. Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him), that the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, ‘Do not write down anything from me except the Qur’aan.’ (Narrated by Muslim).

This prohibition could be applied to the time when the Qur’an was being revealed, lest it be confused with something else.

It is well known fact that Arabs of Hejaz, Tihama, Nejd and other surrounding areas were well known for having well established Oral Culture. They were NOT known to write things down but were excellent at memorising their culture, be it poetry, tribal history, folklore.

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Understanding the orality of Arabic culture

Orality doesn’t necessarily imply illiteracy. Instead, orality refers to a different way of thinking about things, and even a different way of relating to the world. For example, while literate people tend to embrace analytical knowledge in problem-solving and decision-making, oral people use relational knowledge to navigate their lives and make everyday decisions and choices. According to orality experts, more than 60% of the world’s populations are described as oral communicators. Historically, oral modalities shape Arab language and culture. 

For Muslims, Arabic is a sacred language. It embodies religious practices for Arab and non-Arab Muslims. This includes five daily prayers, Quran recitation and memorization, and weekly Friday prayer. The oral traditions of Arabic culture are also deeply rooted in pre-Islamic times. Oral tradition was quite important in the Middle East, going back farther than the Arabic language and then continuing for thousands of years. In fact, pre-Islamic poetry is seen by historians as a register of Arabs, meaning that it contains information on their history, genealogy, world view, cultural values and entire way of life. At that time, Arabic poetry was an original ethnography of the pre-Islamic period. This orality heritage in the Arab world continues to shape attitudes, preferences, decisions and choices. For various reasons, Arabic people may not read books as often as their Western counterparts.

 

https://multilingual.com/articles/understanding-the-orality-of-arabic-culture/

Read More

What Writing Can Tell Us About the Arabs before Islam

https://15minutehistory.org/podcast/episode-82-what-writing-can-tell-us-about-the-arabs-before-islam/

https://brewminate.com/the-history-of-pre-islamic-arabia/

So, ‘Do not write down anything from me except the Qur’an.’ was NOT taken to mean that anything apart from the Blessed Qur’an was meant to forgotten.

The scholars regarded it as recommended action to learn it from them by heart, as they had learned it. But when people were no longer able to strive so hard (in memorizing) and many other ‘non-Arab’ nations had entered Islamic Ummah the scholars feared that knowledge might be lost, they compiled it in books.”

It is interesting to note that apart from Imam Malik ibn Anas (rahimahullah) all other hadith collectors were non-Arabs and were Farsi-speaking by heritage!!!!!

Sahih al-Bukhari - Imam Muhammad al-Bukhari (rahimahullah) Sahih Muslim - Imam Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj al-Naysaburi (rahimahullah) Sunan Abi Dawud - Imam Abu Dawud Sulayman ibn al-Ash'ath as-Sijistani (rahimahullah) Sunan Ibn Majah - Imam Muhammad bin Yazid Ibn Majah al-Qazvini (rahimahullah) Muwatta Imam Malik - Imam Malik ibn Anas (rahimahullah) Jami` at-Tirmidhi - Imam Abu `Isa Muhammad at-Tirmidhi (rahimahullah)

On 6/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Abu Hadi said:

They also destroyed many hadith that were written down that were in favor of Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) and Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)).

This is a well-known, oft-repeating sectarian slogan from the pulpits that common Shia folk hear so much that they tend to believe it as ‘the Gospel truth’.
So, was it NOT the task of the Imam of that time to WRITE DOWN such hadith and save them for the posterity?
Was this part of their duty to preserve Islam in its pristine form?

This is just Ghulaat Shias belief, just as they believe that suras al-Nurain and al-Wilaya in favour of Ahlul Bayt were removed from the Qur’an.

On 6/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Abu Hadi said:

It was during the time of Muawiya that hadiths started to be forged on a large scale and he (Muawiya(la)) attributed the transmission of these  hadith posthumously to various sahaba and wives of the prophet. 

Imam Bukhari 13 Shawwal 194 AH (July 21, 810 CE) 194AH  1 Shawwal 256 AH (870 CE), Imam Muslim 202/821 CE died in AH 261/875 CE and many others became into action and vetted out all the false hadith.

I am surprised at your selected amnesia – Were not Shias Ghulaat or no were manufacturing ‘hadith’ in their favour? Most ‘authentic’ Shia hadith book, Al-Kafi contains only 41% ‘Sahih’ hadith!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now one can judge the state of affairs of other Shia books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On 6/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Abu Hadi said:

We get our hadith from Ahl Al Bayt((عليه السلام)), and most from Imam Jaafar Sadiq((عليه السلام)). That is why we are called Jaafari, because it was during his time (when the power of the Ummayads was on the decline and eventually collapsed and the Abbasids did not yet have a firm grip on power) that the Imam((عليه السلام)) had some amount of freedom to confirm the truth of certain hadith, announce others as forged, and for books of authentic hadith to be written down and disseminated. 

We, Sunnis, get our hadith directly from the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) or those who directly from him!!!!

Note the following:

Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq (may Allah be pleased with him) Born c. 702 CE (c. 83 AH) 765 (aged 63–64) 148 AH

Muhammad ibn Ya'qub al-Kulayni Born, 250 AH /864 CE; Died, 329 AH /941 CE 629692

There is around 160 years between them!!!!!! Too many fallible individuals in-between!!!!

On 6/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Abu Hadi said:

the Imam((عليه السلام)) had some amount of freedom to confirm the truth of certain hadith, announce others as forged, and for books of authentic hadith to be written down and disseminated. 

Had no effect as most ‘authentic’ Shia hadith book, Al-Kafi contains only 41% ‘Sahih’ hadith!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now one can judge the state of affairs of other Shia books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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15 hours ago, Debate follower said:

This is a well-known, oft-repeating sectarian slogan from the pulpits that common Shia folk hear so much that they tend to believe it as ‘the Gospel truth’.
So, was it NOT the task of the Imam of that time to WRITE DOWN such hadith and save them for the posterity?
Was this part of their duty to preserve Islam in its pristine form?

This is just Ghulaat Shias belief, just as they believe that suras al-Nurain and al-Wilaya in favour of Ahlul Bayt were removed from the Qur’an.

Salam this is just pure wahabi/Salafi propaganda which wahabists/Salafists besides of creating false  suras of al-Nurain and al-Wilaya also believe to fooling of prophet  Muhammad  (pbu) by cursed Shaitan & receiving verses of Qaraniq from cursed Shaitan 

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The myth of Qaraniq is an event in which it is claimed that the Prophet of Islam ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) recited two non-Qur'anic phrases under influence  of Shaitan between the verses of this surah while reciting Surah An-Najm, and it is thought that these two are also verses of revelation, But Gabriel informed the Prophet of this event. According to the above-mentioned narrations, this incident took place about two months after the emigration of Muslims to Abyssinia.

A number of Sunni historical and commentary books, including the biography of Ibn Ishaq, al-Tabqat al-Kubra, and the commentary of Tabari, have mentioned narrations related to the story of Qaraniq; On the contrary, many Sunni and Shiite scholars have questioned the occurrence of the Qaraniq incident with arguments. Mohammad Hadi Maarefat, one of the Shiite commentators, considers the document of Qaraniq narrations to be flawed; Because, according to him, none of the main narrators understood the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) and were not companions.

https://fa.wikishia.net/view/افسانه_غرانیق

15 hours ago, Debate follower said:

Most ‘authentic’ Shia hadith book, Al-Kafi contains only 41% ‘Sahih’ hadith!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now one can judge the state of affairs of other Shia books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fabricated hadiths were so prolific that Sahih al-Bukhari includes 2761 non-repetitive hadiths selected from among nearly 600,000 hadiths, and Sahih Muslim includes 4000 non-repetitive hadiths selected from among 300,000 hadiths, as claimed by their authors.

Accuraracy of Sahih al-Bukhari is 0.004601666667=0.46% lesser than 0.5% which is 39.73 % lesser accurate than  is Al Kafi – the most prominent Shia book authored by Muhammad ibn Ya'qub al-Kulayni

Accuracy of Sahih Muslim is 0.01333333333 =1.3% which is 39.9% or 40% lesser accurate than Al Kafi – the most prominent Shia book authored by Muhammad ibn Ya'qub al-Kulayni

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Hadith_Ban

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15 hours ago, Debate follower said:

We, Sunnis, get our hadith directly from the Blessed Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) or those who directly from him!!!!

Note the following:

Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq (may Allah be pleased with him) Born c. 702 CE (c. 83 AH) 765 (aged 63–64) 148 AH

Muhammad ibn Ya'qub al-Kulayni Born, 250 AH /864 CE; Died, 329 AH /941 CE 629692

There is around 160 years between them!!!!!! Too many fallible individuals in-between!!!!

Prove that you recieve narration directly  from prophet  although you have recieved your narration just from fallibles & frauds likewise Abu Hurairah while in opposition  to you we have recived our narrations  from trustworthy  & infallible  members of progeny of prophet  Muhammad (pbu) which Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) has received  narrations  from Imam  Baqir (عليه السلام) which he received  it from Imam Zaynal Abidin Sajjad (عليه السلام) which previously  you have confirmed  their vast knowledge  as masters & teachers  of Abu Hanifa & Malik which Imam Zaynal Abidin Sajjad (عليه السلام) has recieved narrations  & knowledge  from Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) which him & Imam  Hasan(عليه السلام) received it from  Amir al Muminin Imam Ali(عليه السلام) which he received divine knowledge  from prophet  Muhammad (pbu)  which prophet  has received  it from Allah which hadith of golden chain is a proof of it which fair & knowledgeabl sunni scholars have verified  it.

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Hadith al-Silsilah al-Dhahab (Arabic: حدیث سلسلة الذهب) (Hadith of the Golden Chain) is a hadith narrated from Ali al-Ridha, the eighth Imam of the Shia. The "chain" is a reference to the continuity of spiritual authority which is passed down from Muhammad to Ali ibn Abi Talib, through each of the Imams, to Imam Ridha.
Hadith of Golden Chain - Wikipedia

 

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In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful

Imam Rida (عليه السلام) and the Golden Chain Hadith (for teens)
 

Once when our 8th Imam, Imam Rida (عليه السلام) was travelling from Medina to Tous, reached a town called Nishapur.

People of Nishapur came out to welcome and greet the son of Rasulullah [(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)]. They all wanted to see Imam Rida (عليه السلام) and learn from him. Cries of Allahu Akbar; Allahu Akbar; went up. Scholars and reciters of the Quran waited to hear the Imam. They asked him to narrate a hadith from the Holy Prophet Muhammad [(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)]. Imam Rida (عليه السلام) told them the following hadith:

"My father Musa al-Kadhim (عليه السلام) told me,

from his father Ja’far al-Sadiq (عليه السلام),

from his father Muhammad al-Baqir (عليه السلام),

from his father Ali Zain al-Abideen (عليه السلام),

from his father the martyr of Karbala (Hussain) (عليه السلام),

from his father Ali ibn Abitalib (عليه السلام),

from the Holy Prophet Muhammad [(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)].

from Angel Jibrail (عليه السلام),

from Almighty Allah:

The declaration, La ilaha illalallah (there is no Allah except Allah) is My Fortress; whoever enters My fortress is safe from My punishment.

More than 20000 person began reciting the hadith and thought that His Holiness talk was over, but to their amazement the Holy Imam Rida (عليه السلام) added the following words to what he had previously stated:

“But all this depends on some conditions, and I am (accepting my Imamah and obeying my wilayah is) one of those conditions.”

This historical and the most famous hadith Qudsi is called "Silsilat al-Dhahab" (the Golden Chain) because each member of the chain was a Ma’soom (infallible).

In this hadith, Imam Rida (عليه السلام) confirms that worshipping Allah will be counted as a perfect procedure when it is based on the obedience of the immaculate Holy Imams (عليه السلام). He showed that there was a vital and clear link between Tawhid, Nubuwah and Imamah.

https://mohammadfnd.org/en/kids-and-teens/prophets-and-ahlul-bayt/let-s-learn-about-ahlul-bayt/imam-rida-as/714-imam-rida-as-and-the-golden-chain-hadith-for-teens

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Hadith_Silsilat_al-Dhahab

https://www.imamreza.net/old/eng/imamreza.php?id=6185

 

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By this Divine Hadith,4 the holy Imam (عليه السلام) intended to state three points:

Firstly, by naming his ancestors who had each quoted the hadith from the previous ones back to the Holy Prophet (S) who had himself heard it through the trusted Gabriel from the Exalted Lord, he could remind people of his honorable ancestors who were all Shi‘ite Imams and rightful Caliphs of the true path.

Secondly, to remind people of monotheism and theology, which are the cornerstones of all beliefs and contentions to avert them from getting duped by illegitimate rulers, taghuts, and the tyrannical bullies.

Thirdly, real and non-idolatrous monotheism and theology free from hypocrisy requires and accompanies the Wilayat of Ahl al-Bayt (عليه السلام), and that unless a just leadership is not set up in the Muslims' community, the idols and pseudo-idols and the illegitimate rulers will not allow Divine Unity turn in the right path.

Historically, it is recorded that when writing down this hadith, the eager people were so prepared that they had in their disposal 24 thousand pen-holders to be used in writing the precious words of the Holy Prophet (S)'s descendent.5

https://www.al-islam.org/fourteen-luminaries-islam-ahmad-ahmadi-birjandi/tenth-infallible-hadhrat-imam-ali-b-musa-al-ridha

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16 hours ago, Debate follower said:

Had no effect as most ‘authentic’ Shia hadith book, Al-Kafi contains only 41% ‘Sahih’ hadith!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now one can judge the state of affairs of other Shia books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Sunni narrations

Many sunni scholars have narrated this event. Only fifty narrations have survived since third century out of ten thousands or twenty thousands or thirty thousands narrations. Besides, there are many other hadiths titled "al-Silsilah al-Dhahab hadith" varying from the one in question. Two of the important narrations are the "Fortress narration" and the "Faith narration".

The Fortress narration

There exists two different viewpoints among Sunni scholars regarding the Fortress Narration. Some of them mention Abu al-Salt Abd al-Salam ibn Heravi as the only narrator of this hadith and have disqualified him as a narrator, and consequently disregard the hadith. On the other hand, some of the sunni scholars regard Abu al-Salt as highly credible and therefore confirm the hadith, and some others even suggested healing powers for the hadith.

Ali ibn Musa al-Ridha, peace be upon him, said: "My father Musa al-Kazim told me from his father Jafar al-Sadigh, from his father mohammad al-Baghir, from his father Ali Zayn al-Abidin, from his father Husayn, the martyr of Karbala, from his father Ali ibn abi Talib, peace be upon him, who said: I heard from, the apple of my eye, Allah's apostle peace be upon him and his household, who heard from Gabriel saying that Allah said:"There is no god but Allah is my fortress whoever chants this, enters my fortress and whoever enters my fortress shall be safe from my punishment." "

The part specifying 'condition'

Although the last part of the hadith ("There are few conditions and I am one of its conditions") is omitted in most sunni hadith books, some of the sunni scholars such as Khaje Parsa Hanafi and Qazi Bahjat Affandi Shafi'i have mentioned this part in their narration.

Al-Silsilah al-Dhahab in Hadith terminology

Hadith terminology categorize Hadith into several sections. According to authenticity or weakness of Hadith, Each hadith can be placed in different categories. The following are some important topics that are discussed about Al-Silsilah al-Dhahab.

Al-Silsilah al-Dhahab is a Hadith Qudsi, i.e., the word of God, but differs from Quran. The Gabriel transmitted hadith from God to prophet. Al-Silsilah al-Dhahab is Mutawatir. Shia and sunni scholars have narrated the hadith by Different expressions with authenticity. This hadith is Musalsal meaning that it's a word of God and is conveyed from Prophet of Islam through Ahl al-Bayt to Ali al-Ridha. In other word, narrators of the hadith are Prophet and Ahl al-Bayt. According to shia view they are infallible and immune from error in practical matters, in inviting people to the religion and in perceiving the realm of cognition. because of that the hadith is called golden chain. Because of that, this hadith was named Al-Silsilah al-Dhahab. Al-Silsilah al-Dhahab is Musnad. Twenty (or ten or thirty) thousands have narrated this event, but only fifty narrations are available. The chain of the narrators of the hadith reaches the Prophet of Islam through Ahl al-Bayt, hence called Hadith of Golden Chain.

http://www.owlapps.net/owlapps_apps/articles?id=43196205&lang=en

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16 hours ago, Debate follower said:

It is interesting to note that apart from Imam Malik ibn Anas (rahimahullah) all other hadith collectors were non-Arabs and were Farsi-speaking by heritage!!!!!

Sahih al-Bukhari - Imam Muhammad al-Bukhari (rahimahullah) Sahih Muslim - Imam Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj al-Naysaburi (rahimahullah) Sunan Abi Dawud - Imam Abu Dawud Sulayman ibn al-Ash'ath as-Sijistani (rahimahullah) Sunan Ibn Majah - Imam Muhammad bin Yazid Ibn Majah al-Qazvini (rahimahullah) Muwatta Imam Malik - Imam Malik ibn Anas (rahimahullah) Jami` at-Tirmidhi - Imam Abu `Isa Muhammad at-Tirmidhi (rahimahullah)

Prophet  Muhammad  said that people  from Persians will reach to knowledge  which is said about great companion Salman  Muhammadi[Farsi] (رضي الله عنه) who he has been from first Shias & supporters of Amir al Muminin Imam  Ali(عليه السلام) in opposition  to his objecting  of Abubakr  & Umar which also Persians/Fars/Iranians  have choosen Shia Islam as true path so therefore  you must follow  great companion Salman  Muhammadi[Farsi] (رضي الله عنه) & his people  in choosing  Shia Islam & leaving ignorance  & propaganda  of wahabists /Salafis .

So Allah's Apostle put his hand on Salman, saying, "Even if Faith were at (the place of) Ath-Thuraiya (pleiades, the highest star), then some men or man from these people (i.e. Salman's folk) would attain it." (Sahih al-Bukhari)

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Narrated Abu Huraira: While we were sitting with the Prophet Surat al-Jumu'a was revealed to him, and when the Verse, "And He (Allah) has sent him (Muhammad) also to other (Muslims).....' (62:3) was recited by the Prophet, I said, "Who are they, O Allah's Apostle?"The Prophet did not reply till I repeated my question thrice. At that time, Salman al-Farsi was with us. So Allah's Apostle put his hand on Salman, saying, "Even if Faith were at (the place of) Ath-Thuraiya (pleiades, the highest star), then some men or man from these people (i.e. Salman's folk) would attain it." (Sahih al-Bukhari) Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: If the din were at the Pleiades, even then a person from Persia would have taken hold of it, or one amongst the Persian descent would have surely found it. (Sahih al Muslim) Does the above hadeeth refers to Imam Bukhari (the author of Sahih al-Bukhari), who is also of Persian descent?

 

 

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Al-Qurtubi said: “The best of what was said about them is that they are from Persia and this Hadeeth is evidence for it, and men from among them attained this blessing as the religion was salient among them and there were many scholars among them. The fact that they are like this is also further evidence of the veracity of the Prophet, sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam.

Shaykh Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah  said: “The Quran and the Sunnah praised some non-Arabs; Allaah says (what means): {It is He who has sent among the unlettered a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom - although they were before in clear error – And [to] others of them who have not yet joined them. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.} [Quran 62:2-3]."

https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/266854/the-hadeeth-if-faith-were-at-pleiades-refers-to-the-persians

In the Words of the Prophet (s) and Imams (a)

The Prophet Muhammad (s): "Allah commanded me to love four men, for He loves them, too. They are Ali (a), Miqdad, Abu Dhar, and Salman."

Al-Ghadir, vol. 9, p. 117

According to most of Shi'i sources, the first day that Salman entered the mosque, people respected and praised him, while some other people disapproved of it, because he was an 'Ajam (non-Arab). After this event, Prophet Muhammad (s) gave a speech to people:

Men are not superior to another based on their race (being Arab or non-Arab) or the color of their skin, but only piety differentiates them. Salman is a vast sea and an everlasting treasure. Salman is a member of my family (Ahl al-Bayt). He is gifted with knowledge and wisdom.
 
In Shiite sources, there are hadiths narrated from Imams (a) praising Slaman. In these hadiths, he is generally considered among the first Shiites who are steadfast in faith.
In a hadith narrated from Imam al-Baqir (a) and Imam al-Sadiq (a), it is stated that once in a meeting with Imam (a), Salman al-Farsi's name was mentioned and Imam (a) said not to mention his name as al-Farsi but mention him as Salman al-Muhammadi since he is one of us, Ahl al-Bayt.
 
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Disagreement with the Event of Saqifa

See also: Event of Saqifa

 

In the Event of Saqifa, Salman said: "If they had pledged allegiance with Ali (a), they would have been granted with bounties pouring from every direction ."

Ansab al-ashraf, Vol. 1, P. 591

Salman disagreed with the Event of Saqifa. Miqdad, Salman, Abu Dhar, Ubada b. Samit, Abu l-Haytham b. al-Tayyihan, Hudhayfa, and Ammar b. Yasir gathered around at the night after the Event of Saqifa to decide on Caliphate in the community of Muhajirun.[18] Salman and Ubayy b. Ka'b had numerous reasons to disagree with the Event of Saqifa.[19] The famous sentence of Salman on those sahaba of Prophet (s) who took an oath of allegiance to Abu Bakr was: "You did and you did not"[20] Which means you chose a Caliph, but refused to accept the Prophet Muhammad's order. He said in the day, you chose an elder man, but you left the family of Prophet Muhammad (s) alone; if you had chosen a member of Ahl al-Bayt, there would not be any conflict. And also you would have enjoyed its blessings.[21]

 

Governor of al-Madain

Salman al-Farsi became the governor of al-Madain in the time of Umar b. al-Khattab. Salman had asked for permission of Ali b. Abi Talib (a) and then he accepted it. He was the governor of al-Madain until he passed away.[22] Salman dedicated the money he received as the governor to charity.[23] He covered his expenses by means of knitting baskets.

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Salman eventually married Buqayra from the tribe of Banu Kinda. Abd Allah and Muhammad were the names of their sons. Abd Allah had narrated the hadith of the Heavenly Gift for the Lady Fatima (s). Salman also had a daughter in Isfahan and two other daughters in Egypt.

According to Muhaddith Nuri, the descendants of Salman were living in Rey for about five hundred years. Badr al-Din al-Hasan b. Ali b. Salman was a prominent figure in the narration of hadith and his lineage goes back to Salman al-Farsi through nine generations. Dia' al-Din al-Farsi (d. 622/1225-6), a descendant of Salman, was a grand scholar and a poet in Khujand. He was a religious leader in Bukhara. He also penned a commentary on al-Mahsul by al-Razi. Muhaddith Nuri also mentioned Shams al-Din Suzani (d. 562/1166-7 or 569/1173-4) as a descendant of Salman, he was titled as Taj al-Shu'ara (the Crown of Poets). The other mentioned descendants of Salman are Abd al-Fattah, custodian of the mausoleum of Salman for some time; Abu Kathir b. Abd al-Rahman, grandchild of Salman who narrated the letter of Prophet Muhammad (s) to Abd al-Ashhal, a Jewish member of Banu Qurayza, on freedom of Salman; Ibrahim b. Shahriyar (d. 624.1226-7), known as Abu Ishaq Kaziruni, who was a religious figure in the fifth/eleventh century and al-Hasan b. al-Hasan whose lineage goes back to Muhammad b. Salman.[24]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Salman_al-Farsi

As a scholar, Salman ((رضي الله عنه).) was noted for his vast knowledge and wisdom. Ali ibn Talib ((رضي الله عنه).) said of him that he was like Luqman the Wise. And Kaab Al-Ahbar said: "Salman is stuffed with knowledge and wisdom - an ocean that does not dry up." Salman ((رضي الله عنه).) had a knowledge of both the Christian scriptures and the Quran in addition to his earlier knowledge of the Zoroastrian religion. Salman in fact translated parts of the Quran into Persian during the life-time of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).). He was thus the first person to translate the Quran into a foreign language.

https://www.islamicfinder.org/knowledge/biography/story-of-salman-alfarsi/

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Salman: Islam’s child

Salman al-Farsi labelled entering Islam as the best stage of his life. Even though he was an Iranian and was proud of his Iranian heritage, he labelled himself a child of Islam and placed Islam above everything else. One day there was a debate between him and Saad Bin Abi Vaqaaz. Saad told some of those present there, “Talk about your ancestors’ nobility” and they did so. When it was Salman’s turn, he said, “I do not know a father for myself in Islam. Salman is the child of Islam.”

 

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Salman’s anger is God’s anger

Salman al-Farsi’s virtue, sincerity and faith were to the extent that his anger was the criteria for the God’s anger. One day, Abu Sufyan passed by a group of Muslims, including Salman, Soheib, and Bilal and heard them say “The swords quenched their thirst from God’s enemy’s throat.” Abu Sufyan heard what they said. A companion angrily told them, “You are saying this about the sheikh and great man of the Quraysh.” The Prophet was told about what was said, and he addressed that companion, saying, “You were angry with them; if you make them angry, God would be angry with you

https://www.al-islam.org/message-thaqalayn/vol-17-no-4-winter-2017/salman-al-farsi-great-companion-prophet-muhammad/salman

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It was before noon. Some Muslims sat in Prophet's Mosque waiting for Azan (call to prayer) to say noon prayer. Salman entered mosque and greeted his believing brothers.
The Muslims wanted to know the Persian man's tribe. They mentioned their tribes loudly to let Salman hear them .
One of them said:

I belong to Tamim's tribe.
Another said:
I belong to the Quraish.
A third said:
I belong to al-Aus tribe.

And so on. But Salman was silent. They wanted to know his tribe. So they asked him:
Salman, where are you from?
To teach them the meaning of Islam, Salman answered:

I'm the son on Islam! I was lost! So, Allah's guided me with Muhammad. I was poor! So, Allah's made me rich with Muhammad. I was a slave! So, Allah's released me with Muhammad. This is my tribe!

The Muslims in mosque kept silent because Salman taught them a lesson of Islam.

https://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5931:salman-farsi,-the-son-of-islam&catid=589&Itemid=674

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In the Prophet's Mosque

The Muslims came together in the Prophet's Mosque. They were thanking Allah, the Glorified. They were looking at Salman, the great companion, with love and respect because he saved Madina and Islam from the invaders with his plan.
For this reason, the Ansar from Madina said:

Salman is one of us!
And the Muhajireen shouted:
Salman is one of us!

And the Muslims listened to the Prophet [s] to hear his view about Salman:
Salman is a member of my family!
Then the Prophet [s] said:
Don't say Salman al-Farsi, but say Salman al-Muhammadi!
Since that day, the Muslims had looked gratefully and respectfully at Salman.

https://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5931:salman-farsi,-the-son-of-islam&catid=589&Itemid=674

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16 hours ago, Debate follower said:

The Blessed Qur’an was compiled in book form in the time of Hz. Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him)

Imam al-Baqir (a) said: "there's no one who can say that 'I have collected Qur'an as Allah revealed it' unless he is lying. No one preserved and collected Qur'an with the order of revelation except Ali b. Abi Talib."[9]

16 hours ago, Debate follower said:

Verily there has come to you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty He (Muhammad) is ardently anxious over you (to be rightly guided)” (9.128) The manuscript on which the Quran was collected, remained with Abu Bakr till Allah took him unto Him, and then with ‘Umar till Allah took him unto Him, and finally it remained with Hafsa, Umar’s daughter. Bukhari: Book 6: Volume 60: Hadith 201

On 6/13/2022 at 2:36 PM, Abu Hadi said:

All these writings were compiled into a single book, the Quran we have today, immediately following the death of the Holy Prophet by Imam Ali((عليه السلام)) himself.

This is not true.

Mushaf of Imam Ali (a)

Muṣḥaf of Imām ʿAlī (a) (Arabic: مصحف امام علي (ع)) is the first Qur'an collected after the demise of the Prophet (s). Imam Ali (a) presented the Mushaf to the Companions. Still, they did not accept it, so Imam Ali (a) hid it, so the Mushaf is not available, and apparently the order of its suras is not as the order of the existing Qur'an.

The narrators who clearly mentioned the Mushaf of Imam Ali (a) or the collection of Qur'an by Imam Ali (a) are:

  • 'Abd Allah b. al-'Abbas, has independently remarked about the Mushaf.[2]

Could Zayd b. Thabit write better? Or was Sa'id b. al-'As more literate and more familiar with the Arabic grammar than Ali? They were more close to the Prophet (s) or Ali (a) was? They ignored the work of Ali (a) and forgot it

 

Most of the reports and narrations indicate that the Mushaf of Imam Ali (a) was ordered according to the order of revelation; but about whether it only contained the text of the Qur'an or it has some extras like the context of revelation, the exegesis of the verses, nasikh and mansukh; there are different reports.[8]

 

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Opinion of al-Shahristani

In the exegetic book of al-Shahristani (d. 548/1153) it is mentioned: after the collection of Qur'an, Ali (a) and his slave, Qanbar, brought it to the Companions, they were carrying it with difficulty and it is said that it was equal to a load of a camel. Imam Ali (a) told them: this is the book of Allah as is revealed to Muhammad (s), I collected it in a volume. They said: 'take away your Mushaf as we do not need it.' Imam Ali (a) said: 'by Allah, you will never see it again, I had the responsibility to inform you when I collected it.' Then he returned while he was reciting this verse: "O my Lord! Indeed my people consigned this Qur'an to oblivion." (Quran 25:30)[3]

Al-Shahristani then criticizes the response of who rejected the Mushaf of Imam Ali (a):

How they did not want the Qur'an collected by Ali (a)? Could Zayd b. Thabit write better? Or was Sa'id b. al-'As more literate and more familiar with the Arabic grammar than Ali? They were more close to the Prophet (s) or Ali (a) was? They ignored the work of Ali (a) and forgot it. But when Ali (a) completed the burial of the Prophet (s), made a vow that he will never come out of his house except for the Friday prayer till he collects all of the Qur'an. Certainly, he was responsible for this duty. He collected Qur'an as it was revealed; the Prophet (s) had instructed him about the verses and suras and their meaning and order.[4]

 

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Opinion of Ibn al-Nadim

Ibn al-Nadim in his book al-Fihrist says: after the demise of the Prophet (s)Imam Ali (a) stayed in his home for 3 days and collected Qur'an and this was the first collected Qur'an. This Mushaf was among the progeny of Ja'far, and I saw the Mushaf with the handwriting of Ali b. Abi Talib (a), in possession of Abu Ya'li Hamza al-Hasani, which some of its pages was decayed. The progeny of al-Hasan (a) had inherited it and this is the order of suras in Mushaf of Imam Ali (a): [5]

In the existing manuscripts of al-Fihrist the part of the order of suras is totally wiped; the reason for this change is not known.[6

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Mushaf_of_Imam_Ali_(a)

Unfortunately, certain persons, while acknowledging the authenticity of these accounts have tried to cast doubts on the Imam's compilation being in book-form, by stating, rather unconvincingly, that the phrase jama'a al-Qur'an means that he memorized the Holy Scripture after the passing away of the crude attempt to credit others with the first compilation of the Qur'an but the fallacy of such biased claims are exposed when we diligently scrutinize the text of the above-quoted accounts where the word mushaf is clearly mentioned.

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The Imam replied that he had pledged to Allah not to put a cloak on his shoulders except for the prayer until he complied the Qur'an between two covers (mushaf). Ibn Sirin regretted that this transcript has not passed into the hands of the Muslims (for reasons which will be mentioned later) and said: "If that transcript were in our hands, we would have found great knowledge in it."(3) A similar report has been given by Ibn Munadi, who says that after the passing away of the Prophet, the Imam confined himself to his house for three days and compiled the whole Qur'an.

The famous bibliographer, Ibn Nadim, has called it the first ever mushaf and said the Imam compiled it with the help of his heart and memory.(4) Ibn Jawzi al-Kalbi reports that during the lifetime of the Prophet, the Qur'an was in fragmented form, confined to parchments and the memory of reciters, until compiled as mushaf in the order of revelation by Imam 'Ali ((عليه السلام)) immediately after the passing away of the Noble Messenger. He says that if this mushaf were to be traced it would unravel bezels of wisdom.(5)

 

https://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2142:imam-ali-a-s-the-first-compiler-of-holy-quran&catid=265&Itemid=336

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Unfortunately, the clear and lucid words of Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).), which he expressed in an era of ignorance - and at times he vented his feelings by speaking down the mouth of a well because of lack of deserving persons who could lend him their ears - were to be ignored by two groups:
A. Those who claimed to be his devotees but who only devotedly recalled and repeated his words without ever making much effort in theory and in practice to make this these ideals and beliefs manifest in social life.
 
B. The so-called modernists who because of their narrow-mindedness wrongly dismissed the intellectual legacy of the past with out giving themselves the opportunity to ponder on words and thoughts of Imam Ali ((عليه السلام).) regarding Divine Revelations, religion, the Quran and achievements of Islam.

https://www.pasokh.org/en/Article/View/2000386/Imam-Ali-(AS),-the-Source-of-Authentic-Quranic-Knowledge?CID=2321

 

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The Quran Compiled by Imam Ali ((عليه السلام))
There is no dispute among Muslim scholars, whether they are Sunni or Shia, concerning the fact that the Commander of Believers, Ali (عليه السلام), possessed a special transcript of the text of Quran which he had collected himself, and he was THE FIRST who compiled Quran. There are a great number of traditions from Sunni and Shia which states that after the death of the Holy Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).), Imam Ali sat down in his house and said that he had sworn an oath that he would not put on his outdoor clothes or leave his house until he collects together the Quran.
Sunni references:
– Fat’hul Bari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v10, p386
– al-fihrist, by (Ibn) an-Nadim, p30
– al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p165
– al-Masahif, by Ibn Abi Dawud, p10
– Hilyatul awliya’, by Abu Nu’aym, v1, p67
– al-Sahibi, by Ibn Faris, p79
– ‘Umdatul Qari, by al-Ayni, v20, p16
– Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v15, pp 112-113
– al-Sawa’iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197
– Ma’rifat al-Qurra’ al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p31

http://shiastudies.com/en/3753/the-quran-compiled-by-imam-ali-a-s/

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17 hours ago, Debate follower said:

The Blessed Qur’an was compiled in book form in the time of Hz. Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him)

 

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18 hours ago, Debate follower said:

Note the following:

Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq (may Allah be pleased with him) Born c. 702 CE (c. 83 AH) 765 (aged 63–64) 148 AH

Muhammad ibn Ya'qub al-Kulayni Born, 250 AH /864 CE; Died, 329 AH /941 CE 629692

There is around 160 years between them!!!!!! Too many fallible individuals in-between!!!!

One day, King Oljaitu Muhammad the Mogul held a meeting. He gathered Sunni scholars and invited al-Allama al-Hilli to the meeting. When al-Allama entered the meeting, he put his shoes under his arms, said hello to the king, and sat beside him......
They asked him: "what was the value of the shoes that made you bring it with yourself inside the king's meeting?"
 
He replied:"I feared that Hanafis steal them[my shoes], as their head stole the shoes of the Prophet (s)". The Hanafis objected that Abu Hanifa did not live at the time of the Prophet (s). Al-Allama said: "Oh, I forgot! I think the one who stole the Prophet's (s) shoes was al-Shafi'i.
Thus, the same dialogue recurred about the Shafi'is, Malikis, and Hanbalis. Al-Allama said to the king: "now it turns out that none of the heads of the Four Schools (al-Madhahib al-Arba'a) lived in the period of the Prophet (s) and thus, they made up their views. But the Shi'as follow Amir al-Mu'minin (a) who was the Prophet's (s) wasi and brother as well as his soul." Al-Allama went on to deliver an eloquent lecture. At the end of the debate, the king converted to Shiism.[11]
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The Well-Known Debate

Mirza Muhammad Ali Mudarris Tabrizi quotes al-Allama al-Majlisi in his Rayhanat al-adab as writing in his Sharh man la yahduruh al-faqih:

One day, King Oljaitu Muhammad the Mogul held a meeting. He gathered Sunni scholars and invited al-Allama al-Hilli to the meeting. When al-Allama entered the meeting, he put his shoes under his arms, said hello to the king, and sat beside him. When he was asked why he did not prostrate for the king, he replied: "the Prophet (s) was the king of kings, and people said hello to him, as the Quranic verse says: "So when you enter houses, greet your people with a salutation from Allah, blessed (and) good".[10] Moreover, all of us agree that prostration should specifically be done for God.

He was then asked why he sat beside the king. He replied: "It was the only empty place I saw. There is a hadith from the Prophet (s) according to which when one enters a meeting, one should sit wherever he finds empty". They asked him: "what was the value of the shoes that made you bring it with yourself inside the king's meeting?" He replied: "I feared that Hanafis steal them, as their head stole the shoes of the Prophet (s)". The Hanafis objected that Abu Hanifa did not live at the time of the Prophet (s). Al-Allama said: "Oh, I forgot! I think the one who stole the Prophet's (s) shoes was al-Shafi'i. Thus, the same dialogue recurred about the Shafi'is, Malikis, and Hanbalis. Al-Allama said to the king: "now it turns out that none of the heads of the Four Schools (al-Madhahib al-Arba'a) lived in the period of the Prophet (s) and thus, they made up their views. But the Shi'as follow Amir al-Mu'minin (a) who was the Prophet's (s) wasi and brother as well as his soul." Al-Allama went on to deliver an eloquent lecture. At the end of the debate, the king converted to Shiism.[11]

Al-Allama al-Hilli stayed in Iran until the death of Sultan Muhammad Khudabandi and propagated Shiite doctrines and culture. He accompanied the king during all of his travels. At his suggestion, a portable school was made of tents so that al-'Allama could teach during travels.[12]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-'Allama_al-Hilli

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18 hours ago, Debate follower said:

Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq (may Allah be pleased with him) Born c. 702 CE (c. 83 AH) 765 (aged 63–64) 148 AH

Muhammad ibn Ya'qub al-Kulayni Born, 250 AH /864 CE; Died, 329 AH /941 CE 629692

There is around 160 years between them!!!!!! Too many fallible individuals in-between!!!!


Al-Kafi; one of the most reliable books of Shiite Hadith

Some Characteristics of the book ‘Kafi’:
1. The author of this book perceived the period of the four representatives and a part of the time of Imam Hassan Askari (a);

http://shiastudies.com/en/5811/al-kafi-one-of-the-most-reliable-books-of-shiite-hadith/

An important feature of al-Kafi is its order and comprehensiveness.[11] Al-Kafi is also known for its large number of hadiths, clear classification of hadith, completeness in chains of transmitters, and coverage of various topics in theology, jurisprudence, ethics, etc.

Al-Kulayni has tried to bring the most detailed, authentic and clear hadith at the beginning of each section, and the more concise and ambiguous ones later.[12]

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Al-Kafi_(book)

 

18 hours ago, Debate follower said:

am surprised at your selected amnesia – Were not Shias Ghulaat or no were manufacturing ‘hadith’ in their favour? Most ‘authentic’ Shia hadith book, Al-Kafi contains only 41% ‘Sahih’ hadith!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now one can judge the state of affairs of other Shia books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First of all, the reasons behind many beliefs are intellectual arguments and reasoning; hadiths are only mentioned as corroboration of what has been understood through argument, and secondly, because many of these beliefs have been given to us by series of hadiths with different content that somewhat verify each other.

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C) The main problem with what has been said is the false conclusion that has been come to based on it. What we mean is that both what was said about most of the hadiths in Kafi being inauthentic isn't correct, and also the claim that the imams didn’t possess superhuman powers is also incorrect, because first of all, the reasons behind many beliefs are intellectual arguments and reasoning; hadiths are only mentioned as corroboration of what has been understood through argument, and secondly, because many of these beliefs have been given to us by series of hadiths with different content that somewhat verify each other. For example, there are many hadiths that share the same content of hadiths that have been mentioned in the two books of Bidayah al-Ma’arif al-Ilahiyyah and Rahnama Shenasi, such as: hadiths that tell us the imams are muhaddethun (hearers of words from the unseen)[6] or that their knowledge is from the divine.[7]

 

 

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18 hours ago, Debate follower said:

Had no effect as most ‘authentic’ Shia hadith book, Al-Kafi contains only 41% ‘Sahih’ hadith!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now one can judge the state of affairs of other Shia books!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Objections against Kafi
The eminent scholars in the field f Hadith, despite praising the book Kafi, have also made objections to it; amongst them:

Allam Feiz Wafi Kashani, in the introduction of the book ‘Wafi’, has made the following objections against the book ‘Kafi’:

1. He has not mentioned a great deal of jurisprudential issues;
2. In some instances he has not hinted at the Hadiths of opposing views;
3. He has not explained difficult and obscure terms;
4. In some topics, chapters and Hadiths, he has not observed the order under consideration and sometimes he has placed a Hadith in other than its proper place, or has cancelled out a topic and/ or listed a topic which is not necessary.

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B) The presence of conflicting Hadiths or Hadiths opposed to the indisputable principles of the Shiite school of thought is another objection which has been made against Kafi. For instance, they have said that Hadiths asserting that the Qur’an has been distorted, a belief incompatible with the Shiite school of thought, are found in the book Kafi.

C) Some names such as Muhammad, Ahmad, Hussein or even Muhammad bin Yahya and Ahmad bin Muhammad and the likes of them who are among the common narrators, have been mentioned in this book and the author has not given much details in regard to the narrators. 

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D) The other objection is that without the least doubt Kulayni did not hear all the Hadiths from his teachers, but only heard some of them and narrated the rest from their books on their permission and of course both of them

E) Some people have found fault with Kulayni as to why he has narrated Hadiths from indisputably weak narrators in the book Kafi and they have listed a number of those weak narrators, amongst them: Wahab bin Wahab (Abul Bakhtari), Ahmad bin Hilaal, Muhammad bin Walid Sairafi, and /or Abdullah bin Qasim Harithi . The whole set of these objections has been discussed in the books al-Kulayni wal Kafi and al-Kulayni wal Kitaba al-Kafi and all in all

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, overlooking the judgments and verdicts of this book, it is clear that assuming all of them to be correct, yet still nothing of Kulayni and confidence in his book is reduced and of course and of course no book save the Glorious Qur’an which is from Allah the High has remained immune and preserved from mistakes and no person save the infallibles (a), who have been protected by Allah, is immune from error.

Research Work done in regard to Kafi

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Sheikh Aqa Buzurg Tehrani, in the book al-Thariah, has mentioned twenty seven expositions with the whole book about Kafi; (al-Thariah ila Tasanif as-Shiah vol 13 Pages 94,100; vol 14 pages 26- 228; al-Mu’jam al-Mafharis lilalfafi Bahar al Anwar vol. 1 Pages 66-67) in the same way that he has counted ten marginal [notes] about this book (al-Thariah ila Tasanif Shiah vol. 6 Page 181; al-Mu’jam al Mafharis lilalfaz Bahar al Anwar vol. 1 Page 66).

Likewise some other authors have mentioned a great deal of writings in regard to Kafi, a lot of which has either not yet been printed up to now or are out of reach. (Thamin Hashim Habib, as-Sheikh al-Kulayni al-Baghdadi wa Kitab al-Kafi Pages 157- 177).

http://shiastudies.com/en/5811/al-kafi-one-of-the-most-reliable-books-of-shiite-hadith/

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On 6/14/2022 at 7:47 PM, Debate follower said:

This is just Ghulaat Shias belief, just as they believe that suras al-Nurain and al-Wilaya in favour of Ahlul Bayt were removed from the Qur’an.

Salam 

It has been claimed by Christian missionaries at their website that some Shi'ite's have two more chapters in their Qur'an called Surah al-Nurayn and Surah al-Walayah. Regarding the Surah al-Walayah, they used to say [obviously deleted now!]:

Source: The Sura was taken from the book "ALThWRh AL'YARANYh FY MYzAN AL'sLAM" (The Iranian revolution in the balance of Islam), published in Egypt. This is a Sunni book attacking the Shia. The author claims he has taken it from the Shia Qur'an. Only problem is that the Sunni author didn't realize that he was digging his own grave with publishing this sura.

3. Surah al-Walayah & al-Nurayn: Their History & Studies On Them

Between 1055 / 1645 and 1068 /1658, there appeared in India, during the time of Mughal rule, an anonymous book written in Persian called Dabistan-i Madhahib or "Schools of Religious Doctrines". In this book, two additional surahs and verses are mentioned that are not to be found in the official text of the Qur'an. The two surahs bearing the names "Surah al-Walayah" and "Surah al-Nurayn".

AUTHOR OF THE TWO FORGED SURAHS

The discovery of the Dabistan had been ascribed to a Shi'ite, however, without any specification of name of denomination as suggested by Tisdall and others.[15] However, this view has been criticized by Joseph Eliash. Concerning the text from Bankipore and Dabistan-i-Madhahib, he says:

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Hence Dabistan cannot be referred to as an Imami Shi'a source and nor can its author be called Imami-Shi'i.[16]

This is in line with the recent research that has shown that the author of Dabistan was, in fact, not a Shi'ite at all, but rather a Parsi.

[17] "Dabestan-E-Madaheb", Encyclopaedia Iranica, 1993, op. cit., pp. 533-534; Also see M. M. Marcinkowski, "Some Reflections On Alleged Twelver Shi`ite Attitude Towards The Integrity Of The Qur'an", The Muslim World, 2001, Volume 91, p. 142.[17]

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Concerning the Bankipore text, its only connection with the Imami Shi'a is the claim that the manuscript was brought from the Nawwab in Lucknow which was a centre of Imami learning in India. This alone does not constitute it into an authoritative Qur'an for the Imami Shi'a... As to the Dabistan-i-Madhahib, it is significant to note that the author does not identify himself with the Shi'a. He discusses twelve different religions practised in his time in India and devotes just a few pages to the Shi'a which he entitles "Statements about the second sect of Muslims who are known as Shi'a" and prefaces his remarks by phrases such as "the author of this book relates what he learned from Mulla Muhammad Ma'sum, Muhammad Mu'min and Mulla Ibrahim, who in the year of 1053 (AD 1643) were in Lahore and from others" and the like. He precedes the 'Surah al-Nurayn" by the following statement: "Some of them (the Shi'a) say the `Uthman burnt the copies of the Qur'an and excluded (rejected) some of the surahs which were on the dignity of `Ali and his excellence, on of the surahs is this." The Dabistan-i-Madahib was critically edited and translated into english in the year 1843, the editors are not certain of the identity of the author. The give the date of the death of the supposed author, Muhsin Fani, as probably 1081/1670, and state that he was "of the philosophic sect of Sufis", "a native of Kachmir, a learned man and respectable poet, a scholar of Mulla Yakub, Sufi of Kachmir", but make no mention whatsoever that he was Shi'a authority. Hence Dabistan cannot be referred to as an Imami Shi'a source and nor can its author be called Imami-Shi'i.[16]

https://www.islamic-awareness.org/quran/text/forgery.html

 

 

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