Plandemic 2 Incoming - monkeypox virus

[EiE]

This article is from November 2021

In March 2021, NTI conducted a Tabletop Exercise on Reducing High-Consequence Biological Threats,
the third in a series of annual collaborations between NTI and the Munich Security Conference. The
exercise examined gaps in national and international biosecurity and pandemic preparedness architectures
and explored opportunities to improve capabilities to prevent and respond to high-consequence biological
events. The exercise included 19 senior leaders and experts from across Africa, the Americas, Asia, and
Europe with decades of combined experience in public health, biotechnology industry, international
security, and philanthropy. (See the box on page 9 for the list of exercise participants.)

Exercise Scenario
Developed in consultation with technical and
policy experts, the exercise scenario portrayed
a deadly, global pandemic involving an unusual
strain of monkeypox virus that first emerges in the
fictional country of Brinia and eventually spreads
globally. Later in the exercise, the scenario reveals
that the initial outbreak was caused by a terrorist
attack using a pathogen engineered in a laboratory
with inadequate biosafety and biosecurity
provisions and weak oversight. The exercise
scenario concludes with more than three billion
cases and 270 million fatalities globally. As part of
the scenario development process, NTI conducted
a virtual consultation with experts in December
2020. (See Appendix A for the list of participating
experts.)
The exercise was designed for participants to:
• Discuss requirements for international architectures related to science-based, early assessment of
emerging pandemic risks and timely international warning and alerts for potential pandemics.
• Explore conditions that should trigger national pandemic response actions and discuss strategies
and challenges for scaling public health interventions.
• Consider options to reduce biotechnology risks and strengthen oversight of dual-use bioscience
research.
• Explore opportunities to strengthen international financing mechanisms to bolster global health
security preparedness.

The discussion was organized into three sequential “moves” corresponding with scenario developments,
followed by a roundtable discussion of broader biosecurity and pandemic preparedness issues. The step-
by-step approach to revealing scenario developments reflected the limitations of information available to
real-world decision makers, as well as the resulting uncertainty associated with a pandemic of unknown
origin (see Figure 1).

Move 1 (occurring on June 5, 2022, in scenario time) starts with an unusual outbreak of monkeypox in Brinia
(population 250 million), with reports of 1,421 cases and four fatalities. There is no immediate evidence of
international spread, but the outbreak takes place during a national holiday with extensive domestic and
international travel by Brinians. Because monkeypox is not naturally found in Brinia, local and international
experts consider this outbreak to be unusual. The Brinian government welcomes international outbreak
investigations and requests medical support from the WHO. Genome sequencing of monkeypox patient
samples reveals that the strain in Brinia contains mutations that make it resistant to existing vaccines.
The discussion that followed considered how the international system is postured to analyze initial indicators
of pandemic risk and to communicate appropriate warnings.
Move 2 (January 10, 2023) occurs six months later, at which point the virus has spread to 83 countries with
70 million reported cases, causing more than 1.3 million fatalities. With no known effective therapies or
vaccines, countries have had to rely principally on non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) to mitigate the
impacts of the pandemic. Highlighting significantly different national outcomes in managing the pandemic,
some governments, including the fictional Republic of Dranma, promptly adopted aggressive measures
to slow virus transmission by shutting down mass gatherings, imposing social-distancing measures, and
implementing mask mandates. These countries have also established large-scale testing and contact-tracing
operations and scaled-up their health care systems to support anticipated growing case numbers. By
contrast, the scenario depicts another group of countries, including fictional Cardus, that have prioritized
keeping their economies open, undertaking little-to-no NPIs, and downplaying the virus and its potential
impacts. These countries have experienced much worse outcomes in terms of illness and mortality (Figure
2) than those that responded early and energetically. As Figure 3 shows, Dranma experienced far fewer
cases and fatalities than Cardus.
Participant discussion in Move 2 focused on exploring the conditions that should trigger national pandemic
response actions and discussing strategies and challenges for scaling public health interventions.

Move 3 (May 10, 2023) occurred 12 months after the initial outbreak, with more than 480 million cases and
27 million fatalities globally (Figure 4). At this stage, participants learn that the pandemic was caused by a
regional bio-terror attack that far exceeded the perpetrators’ goals.

Exercise Summary

Developed in consultation with technical and policy experts, the fictional exercise scenario portrayed a deadly, global pandemic involving an unusual strain of monkeypox virus that first emerged in the fictional nation of Brinia and spread globally over 18 months. Ultimately, the exercise scenario revealed that the initial outbreak was caused by a terrorist attack using a pathogen engineered in a laboratory with inadequate biosafety and biosecurity provisions and weak oversight. By the end of the exercise, the fictional pandemic resulted in more than three billion cases and 270 million fatalities worldwide.

Discussions throughout the tabletop exercise generated a range of valuable insights and key findings. Most significantly, exercise participants agreed that, notwithstanding improvements following the global response to COVID-19, the international system of pandemic prevention, detection, analysis, warning, and response is woefully inadequate to address current and anticipated future challenges. Gaps in the international biosecurity and pandemic preparedness architecture are extensive and fundamental, undermining the ability of the international community to prevent and mount effective responses to future biological events—including those that could match the impacts of COVID-19 or cause damage that is significantly more severe.

https://www.nti.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/NTI_Paper_BIO-TTX_Final.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by EiE

[EiE]

Quote

No cure or treatment for smallpox exists. A vaccine can prevent smallpox, but the risk of the vaccine's side effects is too high to justify routine vaccination for people at low risk of exposure to the smallpox virus.

Two vaccines are available. One vaccine (ACAM2000) uses a live virus that's related to smallpox, and it can occasionally cause serious complications, such as infections affecting the heart or brain. That's why it's not recommended that everyone be vaccinated at this time. The potential risks of the vaccine outweigh the benefits, in the absence of an actual smallpox outbreak.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/smallpox/symptoms-causes/syc-20353027

but guess what? there's a new small pox vaccine approved by FDA sept 2019.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-live-non-replicating-vaccine-prevent-smallpox-and-monkeypox

 

I find it interesting that they have launched a new small pox injection after many years of no mention of another vaccine.

I'd be hesitant to use my or my family's bodies as guinea pigs.

I'm also wondering if the lab monkeys who escaped in January 2022 are somehow connected to this event.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/22/monkeys-escape-after-truck-carrying-100-animals-to-a-laboratory-crashes-in-us

[Laayla]

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum.

 

All in the name of money, Bill Gates LA and the elitists want to make everyone sicker and poorer.

God hasten the appearance of Imam Mahdi.

[notme]

We can just bypass all this capitalist control by building ties with our neighbors and communities, and practicing mutual aid.  We just need a critical number of us to decide to do it, and it will work.  Unfortunately, without significant participation, it will not work.  

[EiE]

So, did anyone notice that the monkeypox simulation from last year turned into reality in May, as the exercise scenario timeline predicted? If you missed it, go back and read my first post.

Given how much misinformation we were fed throughout the covid time, I believe this is a bit of a coincidence.

[EiE]

Just a few hours ago, WHO (World Health Organization) declared monkey pox a worldwide health emergency.

We will most likely see mandatory vaccinations again.
Even though many people are taking 2, 3, or 4 doses, the number of COVID cases is now increasing.
I ponder whether there will ever be a dosage that is adequate.
Because the story is shifting to indicate that not even 4 doses are sufficient and that you need booster shots every few months to "protect" yourself while previously it was only 2 doses.

How long will this charade last?

[SoRoUsH]

Mods, why is rubbish anti-vaxx, anti-science, conspiracy theory garbage permitted to be posted in the General Islamic Discussion section? 

I have specifically removed myself from the Health/Science section precisely because such garbage was posted there regularly.

I can't see how anti-vaxx conspiracy theory trash is related to General Islamic Discussion. 

Permitting such rubbish to spread has serious real life consequences for people who are gullible and dim enough to believe it. It also has serious consequences for our healthcare systems that will have to deal with the outcomes of such idiocy.

Please clarify. 

Thank you.

Edited July 24, 2022 by SoRoUsH

[Haji 2003]

A gay man writes

Quote

I had sex with several guys over the weekend. Then a week later, on 1 July, I started feeling very fatigued. I had a high fever with chills and muscle aches, and my lymph nodes were so swollen they were protruding two inches out of my throat.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/23/i-literally-screamed-out-loud-in-pain-my-two-weeks-of-monkeypox-hell

[EiE]

On 7/24/2022 at 3:57 AM, SoRoUsH said:

Mods, why is rubbish anti-vaxx, anti-science, conspiracy theory garbage permitted to be posted in the General Islamic Discussion section? 

I have specifically removed myself from the Health/Science section precisely because such garbage was posted there regularly.

I can't see how anti-vaxx conspiracy theory trash is related to General Islamic Discussion.

 

Tell me which part of this discussion contains the conspiracy theory.

Second, since we are all adults here, you don't need to read anything you find difficult. I'm sure there are a lot of people who don't enjoy every thread on this site.

 

On 7/24/2022 at 3:57 AM, SoRoUsH said:

Permitting such rubbish to spread has serious real life consequences for people who are gullible and dim enough to believe it. It also has serious consequences for our healthcare systems that will have to deal with the outcomes of such idiocy.

Do you not feel sympathy for the people who believed vaccinations were "safe and effective" but experienced numerous injuries, some of which resulted in death? We're talking about figures that have been estimated to be in the hundreds of thousands.

Why is it that we may discuss virus mortality but not vaccine-related injuries and fatalities?

This is part of general Islamic discussion because we, as Muslims and Shia, as Allah's servants, have the highest responsibility to protect ourselves, our families, and our communities from harm and fatality.

it's a general issue affecting the muslim and the entire world. Most importantly, as I have stated in another thread, I cannot imagine how these events could not be related to our beloved imam if the Quran and imams are true.

On 7/24/2022 at 3:57 AM, SoRoUsH said:

Permitting such rubbish to spread has serious real life consequences for people who are gullible and dim enough to believe it.

 

Please specify exactly which part. Which statement has "severe real life consequences" in relation to what I said in this thread?

is it a "serious real life consequence" to inquire and discuss recent and upcoming events?

 

The problem, in my opinion, is that a lot of people are paranoid and have an excessive amount of fear of things they know very little of.
What about the other billion illnesses and diseases that we are unaware of?
It appears that this fear and paranoia only exist when they are made to exist and are unrelated to the thing that is causing the fear.

[SoRoUsH]

2 hours ago, EiE said:

This is part of general Islamic discussion because we, as Muslims and Shia, as Allah's servants, have the highest responsibility to protect ourselves, our families, and our communities from harm and fatality.

 

it's a general issue affecting the muslim and the entire world. Most importantly, as I have stated in another thread, I cannot imagine how these events could not be related to our beloved imam if the Quran and imams are true.

We have a responsibility to protect ourselves from anti-vaxxers, paranoid people, conspiracy theorists, science denialists, fear-mongerers, and generally idiots. And hopefully mods will realize the real-world consequences of allowing idiocy to spread through a Shia forum, among shias. 

If being actively involved in discussion forums, for the past 20+ years, has taught me anything, it is to not engage with trolls and conspiracy theorists. 

I will not engage with anti-vaxxers as they severely lack critical thinking, and it is extremely frustrating speaking with them. I have done it plenty of times, unfortunately, and it's absolutely futile. 

It is just so sad that we have such spreaders of paranoia and misinformation amongst us in this very forum. I work at a hospital and I can see the effects of such idiocy everywhere. Fatigued staff. Overwhelmed medical units. Delayed services. 

And it's absolutely frustrating to see how relatively a few loud, shameless, dim-witted, and perhaps insidious, people can cause such damage to our healthcare systems. 

I do really hope the mods keep at least this one section clean and sanitized from the infestation of anti-vaxx posts. 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by SoRoUsH

[EiE]

On 7/25/2022 at 8:02 AM, SoRoUsH said:

We have a responsibility to protect ourselves from anti-vaxxers, paranoid people, conspiracy theorists, science denialists, fear-mongerers, and generally idiots.

Could you identify those individuals for the mods?

Do you comprehend what a discussion forum is?

On 7/25/2022 at 8:02 AM, SoRoUsH said:

lack critical thinking

Nevertheless, you are complaining about a thread that involves some critical thinking here.

On 7/25/2022 at 8:02 AM, SoRoUsH said:

I work at a hospital and I can see the effects of such idiocy everywhere. Fatigued staff. Overwhelmed medical units. Delayed services.

I see. Do you interact with any other hospitals or medical facilities?
Are you unaware that thousands of medical professionals and scientists have publicly criticised nearly everything, from mask regulations to mass vaccination campaigns to shut downs?

Allow me to ask you a little question.
Has it improved at all?
However, you did heed their advice, so why hasn't the situation improved?
Why do you require further booster shots?. I could go whole day with critical questions.

For your information, even though you work in a hospital (in an unspecified role), you appear to be ignorant of the facts that many doctors, nurses, and others have acknowledged regardless of their stance on vaccination.

[SoRoUsH]

@EiE, I don't plan to answer any of your questions or engage with you in anything related to vaccines or conspiracy theories. Take this as you wish. 

 

I do ask the mods to please keep this section clean from anti-vaxx posts.

There are many other sections to discuss such topics. 

Thank you mods!

[Haji 2003]

On 5/22/2022 at 1:43 AM, EiE said:

The exercise examined gaps in national and international biosecurity and pandemic preparedness architectures and explored opportunities to improve capabilities to prevent and respond to high-consequence biological events.

 

Regardless of who planned for the virus, the reality is that it is here and people need to consider how they will respond to it.

 

I agree with the following comment that monkeypox holds no moral judgement about who is sleeping with whom:

Quote

It would be a mistake to write this off as a gay disease, in the same way that gay-related immune deficiency syndrome (Grids) and gay cancer served as early iterations of what we now call HIV/Aids. Viruses aren’t like humans, they hold no moral judgement about who’s sleeping with whom. They infect organisms with no regard to sexuality.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2022/jul/26/i-saw-signs-of-monkeypox-at-berlins-pride-parade-but-that-doesnt-mean-its-a-gay-disease

 

But it does seem to make a moral judgement about how many people someone is sleeping with. 

[Hasani Samnani]

On 7/25/2022 at 5:02 PM, SoRoUsH said:

We have a responsibility to protect ourselves from anti-vaxxers, paranoid people, conspiracy theorists, science denialists, fear-mongerers, and generally idiots. And hopefully mods will realize the real-world consequences of allowing idiocy to spread through a Shia forum, among shias. 

If being actively involved in discussion forums, for the past 20+ years, has taught me anything, it is to not engage with trolls and conspiracy theorists. 

I will not engage with anti-vaxxers as they severely lack critical thinking, and it is extremely frustrating speaking with them. I have done it plenty of times, unfortunately, and it's absolutely futile. 

It is just so sad that we have such spreaders of paranoia and misinformation amongst us in this very forum. I work at a hospital and I can see the effects of such idiocy everywhere. Fatigued staff. Overwhelmed medical units. Delayed services. 

And it's absolutely frustrating to see how relatively a few loud, shameless, dim-witted, and perhaps insidious, people can cause such damage to our healthcare systems. 

I do really hope the mods keep at least this one section clean and sanitized from the infestation of anti-vaxx posts. 

 

Seriously triggered brother and that's sad.

I am a physician who works in multiple hospitals and hospital ICUs, and is often asked to perform technically challenging and difficult procedures on Covid pts. I have to often save these people's lives and I give thanks to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for the knowledge and ability to do so.

I graduated from a top 3 medical school from Canada,  completed 5 years of residency training,  3yrs of 3 subspecialty fellowships and yet you called me an anti vaxxer. I also received a bachelor's degree in molecular biology with research experience using adenoviruses as vectors for DNA delivery.

I also worked for a Big Pharma company  and am very aware that everything is profit driven, there is no altruism in big pharma.

"We have a responsibility to protect ourselves from anti-vaxxers, paranoid people, conspiracy theorists, science denialists, fear-mongerers, and generally idiots." Really brother,  is this the language of a follower of Imam Husain and Imam Mahdi.

You should learn  speak Respectfully and not speak insultingly. Stop being demeaning towards others, or just stop speaking. Frankly it's disgusting and distasteful. 

There are science based articles and actual peer reviewed medical literature that talk about serous complications related to emergency authorization approved mRNA vaccines. That mean no phase 4 and 5  trials and no post marketing surveillance studies yet, so we don't know everything we need to know about this batch of vaccines.

These were rushed to market because of a pandemic. Although multiple experts and physicians warned about vaccinating during a pandemic could cause more variants and subvariants to arise.  In fact , many viral and vaccine superexperts raised this point prior to the global vaccination campaign. 

Dr Geert Vanden Bossche warned about this. 

https://www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org/scientific-blog/epidemiologic-ramifications-and-global-health-consequences-of-the-c-19-mass-vaccination-experiment

Geert Vanden Bossche received his DVM from the University of Ghent, Belgium, and his PhD degree in Virology from the University of Hohenheim, Germany. He held adjunct faculty appointments at universities in Belgium and Germany. After his career in Academia, Geert joined several vaccine companies (GSK Biologicals, Novartis Vaccines, Solvay Biologicals) to serve various roles in vaccine R&D as well as in late vaccine development.

I think he might know a little more about vaccines than someone who works in hospital.

Many Many Healthcare Professionals have serious science based reservations about Vaccines that use a novel technology with very limited testing and no long term studies,  unclear pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics. That's not science denialism, that's being careful based on previous medical training and experiences with recalled vaccines and medicines.

Vaccines used to have to undergo extensive animal testing for years for proper safety protocols. Then phase 1-5 trials, with extensive long-term testing. Most vaccines required 7 to 10 yrs of testing before mass inoculation or coming to market.

So this attempt at censorship of information by self appointed judges with little to no medical training and knowledge,  needs to stop. If shiachat.com wants to use medical professionals to decide what is really misinformation, then appoint a board of medical experts who have documented qualifications. 

People should free to discuss whatever topic they like. If you don't like it, don't read it,don't engage but there are other on the forum who do want to see this information. 

If it offends your delicate sensibilities.....move on. 

But those who want to decide what people should read is literal  authoritarianism,  and is too much big brother vibes.

And using inflammatory language like anti vaxxers, conspiracy theorists and trolls ....this name calling is really quite childish, what are you 4 yrs old.

These are your Shia brothers and sisters,  have some respect. Our lmam is alive , I am quite sure he would be hurt to see people who claim to be his followers calling each other names.

We can have disagreements and even arguments and allow for a variety of opinions.

This crying to the mods every time you get triggered is quite disappointing,  and frankly embarrassing. Show some self respect. 

Even the most honoured companions regarded as the original Shia of Ali had differences on opinions and thoughts.

Imam Husain AS said   "By Allah, if Abu Dhar knew what was in the heart of Salman he would have Killed him even though the Messenger of Allah had established Brotherhood between them."

Source: Al-Kafi, Volume 1, H. 1044 , Ch. 102, H.2

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Hasani Samnani

[Hasani Samnani]

On 7/24/2022 at 5:57 AM, SoRoUsH said:

Mods, why is rubbish anti-vaxx, anti-science, conspiracy theory garbage permitted to be posted in the General Islamic Discussion section? 

I have specifically removed myself from the Health/Science section precisely because such garbage was posted there regularly.

I can't see how anti-vaxx conspiracy theory trash is related to General Islamic Discussion. 

Permitting such rubbish to spread has serious real life consequences for people who are gullible and dim enough to believe it. It also has serious consequences for our healthcare systems that will have to deal with the outcomes of such idiocy.

Please clarify. 

Thank you.

And using the CIA derived term "conspiracy theory" , which was invented to discredit people who brought up hard questions regarding the Kennedy Assassination,  and the documented  Castro Assassination attempts.

The only people who take that term seriously are water carriers for American and Western propaganda. 

Either engage Respectfully and from a base of knowledge or stop engaging with childish name calling.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Hasani Samnani

[SoRoUsH]

1 hour ago, Hasani Samnani said:

yet you called me an anti vaxxer

Yes. 100%. There are plenty of doctors that are weak in critical thinking. We have plenty of PhDs,who are atheists, too. One's education doesn't automatically supply one with critical thinking abilities and skills. 

1 hour ago, Hasani Samnani said:

That's not science denialism, that's being careful based on previous medical training and experiences with recalled vaccines and medicines.

No. It's science denialism. It's basic statistical reasoning. 

Science doesn't operate on absolutes. It operates on probabilities. Nothing is ever 100% safe or 100% unsafe. 

1 hour ago, Hasani Samnani said:

I think he might know a little more about vaccines than someone who works in hospital.

No. That's not how it works. 

There are always minority voices that speak against field experts. Take climate change for example. There are climate "experts", who deny climate change, as we are literally going through it all across the globe. 

It doesn't matter what 1, 2, 100, or 1000 experts claim. What matters is proportionality. The proportion of doctors and scientists that recommend vaccines for COVID far outweighs the ones that don't. Similarly, the proportion of experts that warn us against climate change is much much higher than the few "experts" that deny climate change.

1 hour ago, Hasani Samnani said:

People should free to discuss whatever topic they like

Do it in the right section. Don't infest every section of this forum with anti-vaxx rubbish. We have multiple sections on this forum for a reason. 

1 hour ago, Hasani Samnani said:

like anti vaxxers, conspiracy theorists and trolls

That's precisely who and what they are, and they should be called out for spreading garbage misinformation with real-life consequences. 

1 hour ago, Hasani Samnani said:

frankly embarrassing

What's embarrassing is grown men and women spreading misinformation and fear and hate. 

 

I just remembered, you're also a holocaust denier. Again not surprising that you're an anti-vaxx, too.

I won't respond to any of your posts. I have no desire to engage with anti-vaxxers and/or holocaust deniers.

Edited July 26, 2022 by SoRoUsH

[Hasani Samnani]

15 minutes ago, SoRoUsH said:

Yes. 100%. There are plenty of doctors that are weak in critical thinking. We have plenty of PhDs,who are atheists, too. One's education doesn't automatically supply one with critical thinking abilities and skills. 

No. It's science denialism. It's basic statistical reasoning. 

Science doesn't operate on absolutes. It operates on probabilities. Nothing is ever 100% safe or 100% unsafe. 

No. That's not how it works. 

There are always minority voices that speak against field experts. Take climate change for example. There are climate "experts", who deny climate change, as we are literally going through it all across the globe. 

It doesn't matter what 1,2, 100, or 1000 experts claim. What matters is proportionality. The proportion of doctors and scientists that recommend vaccines for COVID is much much higher. Similarly, the proportion of experts that warn us against climate change is much much higher than the few "experts" that deny climate change.

Do it in the right section. Don't infest every section of this forum with anti-vaxx rubbish. We have multiple sections on this forum for a reason. 

That's precisely who and what they are, and they should be called out for spreading garbage misinformation and real-life consequences. 

What's embarrassing is grown men and women spreading misinformation and fear and hate. 

 

I just remembered, you're also a holocaust denier. Again not surprising that you're an anti-vaxx, too.

I won't respond to any of your posts. I have no desire to engage with anti-vaxxers and/or holocaust deniers.

Based on what medical knowledge do you make decisions on vaccine safety. 

what's your role in the hospital,  I gave my educational,  medical and science based qualifications. Your working in a hospital and having no ability to make Medical literature based arguments makes me quite afraid for patient safety and well-being in your hospital.

Other than name calling,using derogatory language towards Shia brothers and sisters,  not responding with any science backed arguments,  making straw man arguments, poisoning the well arguments speaks volumes about your educational and social and religious background.

If you keep out of the science section, that's great, stay away,  such behavior is not welcome.

"I won't respond to any of your posts" sounds cartoonishly childish and cowardly.

If you're afraid to engage in scientific debate, just admit it. The first step in understanding one's  intellectual weaknesses, is first admitting one's ignorance. 

I don't claim to be a Corona virus expert,  but I have both theoretical and practical experience...how about you?

I think the OP is a valuable member of the community who provides both a public health service to the shiachat community, shares excellent medical information and does not engage in abusive behavior.

That unfortunately does not apply to everyone in the community who use fear mongering and name calling as a cowardly attack for indefensible positions of ignorance.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Hasani Samnani

[Hasani Samnani]

11 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

Yes. 100%. There are plenty of doctors that are weak in critical thinking. We have plenty of PhDs,who are atheists, too. One's education doesn't automatically supply one with critical thinking abilities and skills. 

No. It's science denialism. It's basic statistical reasoning. 

Science doesn't operate on absolutes. It operates on probabilities. Nothing is ever 100% safe or 100% unsafe. 

No. That's not how it works. 

There are always minority voices that speak against field experts. Take climate change for example. There are climate "experts", who deny climate change, as we are literally going through it all across the globe. 

It doesn't matter what 1,2, 100, or 1000 experts claim. What matters is proportionality. The proportion of doctors and scientists that recommend vaccines for COVID is much much higher. Similarly, the proportion of experts that warn us against climate change is much much higher than the few "experts" that deny climate change.

Do it in the right section. Don't infest every section of this forum with anti-vaxx rubbish. We have multiple sections on this forum for a reason. 

That's precisely who and what they are, and they should be called out for spreading garbage misinformation and real-life consequences. 

What's embarrassing is grown men and women spreading misinformation and fear and hate. 

I just remembered, you're also a holocaust denier. Again not surprising that you're an anti-vaxx, too.

I won't respond to any of your posts. I have no desire to engage with anti-vaxxers and/or holocaust deniers.

The proportion of Muslims who accept the authority of Ahlul bayt is and has always been a minority,  I'm a proud member of that illustrious minority,  you are free to join the majority opinion on that as well.

Climate change is your straw man argument...really an computer model based theory....yes great intellectual backup for your argument.

Your critical thinking skills are quite evident with your non science based arguments.

If your basing your life and intellectual decisions on probabilities, then it's probably safer in this global Kufr based world to probably not be a Muslim and definitely not a Shia Muslim. It's probably better  and safer to follow the herd. It's probably better to avoid critical thinkers and fact based arguments. In fact, it's probably better for your triggered delicate sensibilities to stay away from open forums where intellectuals engage in debate, religion based discussions and difficult discussion.

[Hasani Samnani]

On 7/24/2022 at 5:57 AM, SoRoUsH said:

Mods, why is rubbish anti-vaxx, anti-science, conspiracy theory garbage permitted to be posted in the General Islamic Discussion section? 

I have specifically removed myself from the Health/Science section precisely because such garbage was posted there regularly.

I can't see how anti-vaxx conspiracy theory trash is related to General Islamic Discussion. 

Permitting such rubbish to spread has serious real life consequences for people who are gullible and dim enough to believe it. It also has serious consequences for our healthcare systems that will have to deal with the outcomes of such idiocy.

Please clarify. 

Thank you.

Because this topic affects the Whole Muslim Ummah and those members and non members.

It has religious, political and economic ramifications...is that too difficult to understand.

[guess]

On 7/25/2022 at 5:02 PM, SoRoUsH said:

We have a responsibility to protect ourselves from anti-vaxxers, paranoid people, conspiracy theorists, science denialists, fear-mongerers, and generally idiots. And hopefully mods will realize the real-world consequences of allowing idiocy to spread through a Shia forum, among shias. 

If being actively involved in discussion forums, for the past 20+ years, has taught me anything, it is to not engage with trolls and conspiracy theorists. 

I will not engage with anti-vaxxers as they severely lack critical thinking, and it is extremely frustrating speaking with them. I have done it plenty of times, unfortunately, and it's absolutely futile. 

It is just so sad that we have such spreaders of paranoia and misinformation amongst us in this very forum. I work at a hospital and I can see the effects of such idiocy everywhere. Fatigued staff. Overwhelmed medical units. Delayed services. 

And it's absolutely frustrating to see how relatively a few loud, shameless, dim-witted, and perhaps insidious, people can cause such damage to our healthcare systems. 

I do really hope the mods keep at least this one section clean and sanitized from the infestation of anti-vaxx posts. 

 

I am glad we have a forum like shiachat.

It allows for asking for help,  educational topix, discussions and mutual learning opportunities. 

I am not sure that censorship is conducive to the stated purpose of the website.

In fact that might defeat the purpose.

Yes there are guidelines to prevent abuse of our leaders, and to avoid causing disunity in the ummah.

Plus healthy debate is sign of an educated and thinking community and sign of advanced civilization.

Censorship is a sign of a regressive ignorant community that is afraid of the truth.

There are Salafi types who I feel are the nonthinking Takfiri types. They hate discussions and consider certain topics verboten. Our communities is also called Jafaris for a reason.  Imam Jafer e Sadiq was not afraid to engage in civil discourse and debate. In fact it was what allowed him to be the most respected authority to whom many Sunnie Imams looked to for more advanced guidance.

I think we should remain civil and polite.

I continue to learn from discussions and gain important insights. 

I think the OP brings up am important point. There are satanic forces in the world , to whom life is not important. They have always been Man's open enemy. If we fail to understand their strategies then we will suffer.

I believe the Corona virus was a planned bioweapon that was likely released on purpose. 

I subscribe to the Ron Unz theory of an American bioweapon aimed at Iran and China. In fact the reason he believes it is a bioweapon is that it fortuitously attacked two of America's greatest enemies were attacked simultaneously. In Iran it didnt hit a major population centre. Instead it was aimed at our ulema and their seat of power. Additionally, it attacked the parliament members in a very insidious mode.

In  China it attacked a central city and key hub for logistics and during the greatest travel holiday when people traditionally visit their families. This would have been the best way to attack china's economy, and close down their other cities. 

If that's a conspiracy theory then I subscribe to Ron Unz's conspiracy theories.  

 

 Our COVID-19 Catastrophe: Was the Epidemic the Result of Biowarfare Blowback?

He Uses the neocon celebration of Iran's covid epidemic and deaths, as a proof of the biowepaon theory.

I think the above book and the The Real Dr Fauci by Robert Kennedy Jr are shocking eye-opening books,  and must read for our community to understand the pervasive evil influence of satanic forces. Both books are well written and extensively referenced with impeccable citations.

These books will definitely red pill you and allow you to understand the satanic matrix 

[SoRoUsH]

10 hours ago, guess said:

These books will definitely red pill you

"Redpilled" is another word for conspiracy theorist. "Redpilled" is now a new label for right-wing fascists. 

The "redpilled" people are the confused, hateful, fearful, and paranoid people. I would never want to be "redpilled" or, in fact, associated with anyone who's been "redpilled." 

I hope you and other "redpilled" people seek and find help. You've contracted a serious mental virus. Take this matter seriously and help yourself. I am serious.

It's definitely disheartening to see "redpilled" people on Shiachat. 

Wassalam 

 

P.S. as you may know by now, I don't engage with anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists. Don't expect any further responses from me. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by SoRoUsH

[SoRoUsH]

Source:

Stanley, Jason. How fascism works: The politics of us and them. Random House Trade Paperbacks, 2020.

[Hasani Samnani]

Re Jason Stanley another of the pro Israeli Hypocritical Jewish Philosophers

They never seem to aim their laser sights regarding Fascism,  propaganda at the biggest violator of human rights, most Fascist regime in the world, and worst purveyors of evil propaganda.

Both of Stanley's parents emigrated to the United States from Europe – his father from Germany in 1939, and his mother from Poland. He grew up in upstate New York. He is the grandson of Ilse Stanley, who secured the release of 412 people from Nazi concentration camps from 1936 to 1938. Stanley describes his Jewish background as informing his writing on fascism: "To me, my Judaism means an obligation to pay attention to equality and the rights of minority groups."[6]

So quick to play the Holocaust card.

There are no Holocaust deniers, but it is funny how many times the number 6 million is thrown out.

It was used to describe deaths of Jews in

Russia 1800s, Russia 1900s, Germany first world War and again in 1940s.

Despite corrections of deaths downwards at Treblinka, Sobibor, Aucshwitz, Buchenwald etc the 6 million number never changes....ever. Do you even know the sacred Jewish history regarding the number 6 million and the Holocaust and burnt offerings...I'm sure you haven't a clue. Hint ...it has to do with their Moshiach or Messiah.

 

I don't deny a holocaust happened,  but like other Big Brother censorship no one is allowed  to investigated or question the narrative.

That fact that he is one of your heroes and you have his books to copy and paste and show pseudo intellectual superiority.

Those who condone Zulm and their supporters are who we condemn repeatedly in Ziarate Ashura and Ziarate Imam Hussain  and untold other duas and Ziarat.

This speaks volumes of your background and thinking and need to censor others commentaries and statements.

I feel intense pity for you brother, so self righteous, quick to condemn, name call and engage in disgusting behaviors,  but afraid to examine your heroes,  or your own disparaging remarks towards fellow Shia Muslims 

You tell people you will ignore and not engage, and yet you continue to spew hatred and name call.

When you say such words and then show piety and devotion to AhlulBayt,  you don't see the disconnect between words and actions.

I guess self awareness may be too difficult.

Like the people of Kufa begged Imam Husain to come to rescue them with many entreaties and letters. The true supporters were killed and their sacred Shaheed blood was spilt, so much so that streets in Kufa had deep puddles of blood.

After those momineen were martyred, the remaining hypocrites suddenly offered no help. Another disconnect between words and actions. Some even joined Yazeeds army at Karbala.

Those people are the reason that some dishonest Salafis say that, the Shia martyred Imam Husain. 

For your soul, I would suggest not allying, supporting and propagating munafiqs. Those who condone zulm or ally with Zalimeen or engage in it are truly cursed.

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Hasani Samnani

[EiE]

Having these types of discussions is important and beneficial.
It's also important that we maintain mutual respect and refrain from disparaging one another simply because we disagree.

If you disagree, tell us why, bring your arguments, facts, personal opinions, whatever, but respect the forum's participants and viewers nonetheless.

[Haji 2003]

 

[Hasani Samnani]

26 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

 

That's a great share Haji , who is the tweet from exactly.

I think this accentuates the point you have made before,  this maybe  endemic in certain population subtypes and in certain areas.

The best defense for this droplet and pustular based viral disorder is gonna be meticulous hand washing, with proper hospital type technique.

 

Also as an aside for those triggered by our discussions and points, and run to mods....

Sub topic description:  Discuss Islamic theology, history, philosophy, spirituality, the Holy Qur'an, duas, hadith, and general issues facing the Muslim world. 

Edited July 28, 2022 by Hasani Samnani

[Hasani Samnani]

Big news from the FDA , in recently released documents regarding PCR testing and the lack of cooperation from the Chinese health authorities....

This is earth shattering news.

I don't agree with the authors hypothesis necessarily,  but the FDA Document quotes are indescribable and indefensible.

https://fos-sa.org/2021/08/02/fda-document-admits-covid-pcr-test-was-developed-without-isolated-covid-samples-for-test-calibration-effectively-admitting-its-testing-something-else/

[Hasani Samnani]

Makir wa Makrullah, inallah khaiurul Makeyreen.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has not only revealed hidden truth for those who can see.

He also has provided us with natural anti virals and antibiotics and other natural medicines Subhanullah. 

It makes you realize that Hadeeth saying that for every illness Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has created a cure.  

what's  amazing like cannabinoids, curcumin, Vit D, apririn, streptokinase, urokinase, digoxin, Morphine (opioids) are all natural or based on natural occuring substances.

Up to 50% the approved drugs during the last 30 years are from either directly or indirectly from natural products and in the area of cancer, over the time frame from around the 1940s to date, of the 175 small molecules 85 actually being either natural products or directly derived there from.

Now with low-level light therapy ( photobiomodulation) , healing frequencies and resonance frequencies,  stem cells therapy, CaRT cell for lukemias,  steroids ( come from adrenal glands) plus others for lymphoma , It makes one Eeman even stronger, as a Doctor my faith gets stronger the more I learn how truly Rahman and Raheem he is towards us.

Nigella Sativa, black seed with honey, has remarkable disease curing and symptom relieving properties, with many supportive hadith for both compounds. 

Alkaline water (ph of 8 0r 9 ) and its health benefits are innumerable. Guess what the ph of ZamZam water is .....

9. plus multiple vital trace minerals.

like pencilillin, ivermectin made like natural Avermectin, a chemical produced by a streptomyces species as anti fungal , anti viral and anti helminthic compound and now has been found to be anti neoplastic... Allahu Akbar 

Looks like Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) continues to  bless us ( humans and other creation) with many natural cures to all the evil diseases dreamt up by Satanic crowd.

Plandemic version 1.0

Secret Docs Reveal Moderna Sent Coronavirus Vaccine To North Carolina University Weeks Before Pandemic

A confidentiality agreement shows potential coronavirus vaccine candidates were transferred from Moderna to the University of North Carolina in 2019, nineteen days prior to the official emergence of Covid-19 pandemic

https://greatgameindia.com/moderna-vaccine-north-carolina-university/

remember China gets hit with an obvious bioweapon aimed at the people, food supplies or transport logistics every few years.  and it has nothing to do with what crap they eat, they have been eating such things for 1000s of yrs.

SARS then bird flu then swine flu,  and before unsuccessfully small pox and poliovirus. Must be incredible coincidence.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Hasani Samnani

[Hasani Samnani]

 

there is an excellent thread on Muhammadan cures as well and i have Mr Bilal Muhammad's excellent book.

Don't think because there is an out of control virus , Allah has not provided a cure.  He has and does and our Hidden Sunlight Imam is also present as gift to the Ummah, we just need to have faith.

An All powerful All seeing  Lord has never left us alone,  we are the ones that often lose faith,  he does not stop caring for us...ever.

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Hasani Samnani

[Hasani Samnani]

Makir wa Makrullah, inallah khaiurul Makeyreen.

Plandemic version 1.0

 

https://greatgameindia.com/moderna-vaccine-north-carolina-university/

[Haji 2003]

On 7/28/2022 at 10:31 AM, Hasani Samnani said:

who is the tweet from exactly.

She's an MD who has tweeted extensively about the coronavirus. But I just posted it for the points she was making without reference to how valid they were and people could challenge/support them as they wish.

The points are very specific:

1. Wastewater presence of a virus means it is endemic
2. Once something is endemic you need to vaccinate
3. Monkeypox has been found in the wastewater in SF

[Hasani Samnani]

1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

She's an MD who has tweeted extensively about the coronavirus. But I just posted it for the points she was making without reference to how valid they were and people could challenge/support them as they wish.

The points are very specific:

1. Wastewater presence of a virus means it is endemic
2. Once something is endemic you need to vaccinate
3. Monkeypox has been found in the wastewater in SF

I agree with her on points 1 and 3.

First rule of pandemics and endemic,  don't vaccinate during the active spread of the virus.

That's a fairly hard and fast rule in infectious disease textbooks , with numerous examples.

Rule 2. Use a properly and extensively tested Vaccine as a prophylaxis. It's not a treatment or therapy.

Vaccines take 10 yrs to make and test and that means phase 1 to 5 trials, with post market surveillance in a special population before exposing general population. No shortcuts , because consequences can be devastating. Even Fauci admitted that in his emails, but he said it quite regretfully.

See Swine flu vaccine and vaccine recall for side effects. With swine flu in the 70s they violated rule one and rule 2.

First isolate virus, make an atteuated virus vaccine, not an untested technology. 

Don't use a similar virus like smallpox just because they come from the same family Poxviradae,  and if you do then expect some spontaneous pathogenic cases of the attenuated virus going live , like like with Poliovirus vaccines.

Those who don't learn from history...etc.

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Hasani Samnani

[Aloysius Pendergast]

Salaam,

I'm glad there was pushback in this conversation from the typical cyber bullying and name-calling whenever someone questions the official Covid narrative.

As with anything else that exists in the universe, there are questions to be asked, policies to be critiqued, bureaucracy and corporate profiteers to be questioned, and money to be followed. Anyone that frowns upon or tries to bully others through silly name calling isn't a good faith actor.

People often conflate the scientific method, which is apparently unfalsifiable with the corporate bureaucracy and the very human impulses and desires that drive that scientific enterprise. Assuming the latter is above the potential of corruption is amateurish thinking.

Dr. Anthony Fauci and his lackeys have made hundreds of thousands of dollars from kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies, and it's fact that they have invested in specific drugs over others, irrespective of efficacy. 

I'm ranting, but the humans and institutions that make up the scientific enterprise are not above question, and asking question and drawing conclusions from answers to those questions doesn't make one a quack or whatever else elitist label you're fond of using.

[Haji 2003]

22 hours ago, Aloysius Pendergast said:

Dr. Anthony Fauci and his lackeys have made hundreds of thousands of dollars from kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies, and it's fact that they have invested in specific drugs over others, irrespective of efficacy. 

That allegation does not seem to be related to covid.

Quote

False. There is no evidence that Anthony Fauci is part of Pfizer, as posts online claim.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-fauci-pfizer-idUSL1N2P31NR

22 hours ago, Aloysius Pendergast said:

there are questions to be asked, policies to be critiqued, bureaucracy and corporate profiteers to be questioned

The problem is that both the bureaucracy and corporate profiteers are not monoliths.

While Big Pharma was no doubt keen to promote vaccines etc., by the same measure firms in the hospitality, travel, property and entertainment industries (amongst many others) were very keen to minimise lockdowns, mask wearing and social distancing and only acceded to these as a matter of last resort. There are of course many more firms in these industries and much more economic muscle than there is for Pharma.

Similarly the Trump administration, amongst others, was very hesitant to impose restrictions and only did so when it seemed as if the virus might overwhelm health services. Countries like Singapore were more willing to lockdown harder and earlier than the U.S.

[Haji 2003]

Seems all it needs is skin to skin contact ... pretty high chance of that happening here