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In the Name of God بسم الله

Syeds in Pakistan & India

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Regarding subcontinental and especially Pakistani Syeds - how true is the claim that they are Syeds? It almost has seemed to me that, due to there being such a caste complex in the subcontinent that has existed for time immemorial, perhaps some of the converted Muslims started to claim "Syedhood" to feel more superior to others. Any thoughts?

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Posted (edited)
On 5/13/2022 at 6:57 AM, Ibn-e-Muhammad said:

Regarding subcontinental and especially Pakistani Syeds - how true is the claim that they are Syeds? It almost has seemed to me that, due to there being such a caste complex in the subcontinent that has existed for time immemorial, perhaps some of the converted Muslims started to claim "Syedhood" to feel more superior to others. Any thoughts?

The Sayed families who came from Iran & Afghanistan and adjoining countries in subcontinent due to mostly unrest and killing of shia during the caliphate of Abbasi and due to the possible fear of mughals / tatar.

These sayed include both sunni and shia may be sunni sayed are those who came in taqaya due to saving of life.  These sayed include: Naqvi, Rizvi, Abidi, Zaidi, Musawi, Kazmi, Jafri some inlude Tirmizi, or Gardezi etc. These sadaat maintained their identification by the establishment of Mosques and Imam bargah and they also made development for education by establishing the educational institutes in various parts of indo-pak. 

They made activities to educate the young children of ummah and some financial assistance by making marriage of girls etc. But these efforts were limited mostly in areas where they lived in a certain appreciable part of whole population of the areas. The sayeds are generally considered more religious in their practices and rituals than others section of community.

Further details about Sayeds in subcontinent can be seen at the givne link:

https://thesyedfamily.com/

https://mynasab.com/2021/03/23/sadat-of-subcontinent-india-and-pakistan/

Most sadaat maintain their Shajra / family tree and it is normally updated after 5 years.  I am also from a sayed family but this title does not add any virtues to the person because the basis of virtues in religion is piety / taqwa.

There is a presence of fake sayeds who might be famous by the Shah or alike with their name in present time and they might be using sayed alone without any sub-cast of sayed / descendants of the daughter of the prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

wasalam

Edited by Muslim2010
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Posted (edited)
On 5/13/2022 at 3:57 AM, Ibn-e-Muhammad said:

Regarding subcontinental and especially Pakistani Syeds - how true is the claim that they are Syeds? It almost has seemed to me that, due to there being such a caste complex in the subcontinent that has existed for time immemorial, perhaps some of the converted Muslims started to claim "Syedhood" to feel more superior to others. Any thoughts?

EDIT: inappropriate comment removed 

On 5/13/2022 at 7:39 AM, Uni Student said:

I'm not sure about the history behind all this, but I always get a good laugh out of how the majority of Pakistanis and Indians I have met claim to be syeds

I get a good laugh at the ignorance of people who have no idea about the history of the persecution of Sayeds that led to their migration towards the subcontinent but like to talk about it nonetheless. 

Here is a fact - the first Muslim army led by Mohammad bin Qasim didn't come to India to fight Hindus but to persecute Sayeds...that should give you an idea of how many Sayeds came over and then multiplied over centuries.

Edited by Mahdavist
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Guest Psychological Warfare

fyi: They were free, compared to the ones living under the Sunni Kingdoms. (Caliphates). One day you will understand to not do comparative study/analysis  ( what developed there and what stayed hidden in the other parts.) with out proper information and understanding of realities. 

https://youtu.be/mx19SV3kmis

The Shia of India 

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21 hours ago, ShiaMan14 said:

the first Muslim army led by Mohammad bin Qasim didn't come to India to fight Hindus but to persecute Sayeds...

Very true. And Raja Dahir (King of Sindh) gave shelter to the Syed Migrants. He refused to handover those Syeds to Muhammad bin Qasim and as a result got killed.

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On 5/14/2022 at 5:08 PM, ShiaMan14 said:

Here is a fact - the first Muslim army led by Mohammad bin Qasim didn't come to India to fight Hindus but to persecute Sayeds...that should give you an idea of how many Sayeds came over and then multiplied over centuries.

Muhammad b. Qasim invaded India for the same reason the Ummayads invaded any other place. They were a dynastic family ruling a vast empire and conquest was the way they expanded. Muhammad b. Qasim didn't invade Sindh to persecute Syeds, quite frankly it doesn't seem like they meant anything to him in his pursuit of power and control. 

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3 hours ago, Ibn-e-Muhammad said:

Muhammad b. Qasim invaded India for the same reason the Ummayads invaded any other place. They were a dynastic family ruling a vast empire and conquest was the way they expanded. Muhammad b. Qasim didn't invade Sindh to persecute Syeds, quite frankly it doesn't seem like they meant anything to him in his pursuit of power and control. 

The hatred and persecution of Saadat and Shia by the Banu Umayyah is quite well documented in  history. You might want to look at the services rendered in this regard  by Bin Qasim's (L.A) Emir, Hajjaj Ibn Yusuf (L.A).

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4 hours ago, Ibn-e-Muhammad said:

Muhammad b. Qasim invaded India for the same reason the Ummayads invaded any other place. They were a dynastic family ruling a vast empire and conquest was the way they expanded. Muhammad b. Qasim didn't invade Sindh to persecute Syeds, quite frankly it doesn't seem like they meant anything to him in his pursuit of power and control. 

He has been a wretched  Nasibi which his paternal uncle cursed "Hajjaj Ibn Yusuf (L.A)" has had full trust to him which appointed  him as as governor  of Shiraz in Iran when he has been 17 years old which after lashing   Atiyya_b._Sa'd_b._Junada_al-Awfi the devoted companion  of Imam  Ali(عليه السلام) has  appointed  him as governor  of Sindh  which according  to Saudi(wahabi) propaganda  he has attacked  to India just to protect a muslim girl then founded Pakistan .:hahaha:

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image.png.81343abf33a6b68a069d005bc434e7a9.png

https://lifeinsaudiarabia.net/muhammad-bin-qasim/

https://www.guggenheim.org/artwork/31318

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2- Appointment of Saqafi to the command
[Edit]

Hajjaj apparently appointed Muhammad ibn Qasim, who was apparently seventeen years old, in command of the army in 83, during the reign of Walid ibn Abd al-Malik, and ruled Fars and the war with the Kurds, who had joined Ibn Ash'ath's revolt in Fars. [12] [13] [14] [15] Poets have considered this as a sign of his courage, chivalry and great secretary. [16] [17] [18]

https://fa.wikifeqh.ir/محمد_بن_قاسم_ثقفی

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These are the stories of Muhammad Bin Qasim, Mahmud Ghazni, Muhammad of Ghor, Babur, Nadir Shah and Ahmad Shah Abdali. It became the story of Muslim triumph over a pagan land, a chaotic rule replaced by a benevolent empire enlightened by religious exceptionalism. Just as the creation of Pakistan was projected as the triumph of Muslim nationalism in juxtaposition to the defeat of Indian nationalism (read Hindu nationalism), history was recast to tell this story of triumph over and over again

 

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If we use the story of Ramayana, they became the Rams of the story. However, every Ram needs a Ravana, the penultimate villain, on the basis of whom his glory is projected. Thus entered the villainous Hindu rulers like Raja Dahir, Anandpala, Prithviraj Chouhan, Shivaji and others. For the true light of their rule to shine, the era preceding them needed to be darker. In order for these Muslim rulers to be just, the ones before them needed to be more atrocious.

Standing in contrast to the glorious Muhammad Bin Qasim, the 17-year-soldier, was the aging Raja Dahir, the ruler of Sindh. If Muhammad Bin Qasim had to be a symbol of Pakistani nationalism, then Raja Dahir had to be its anti-thesis. And that is what he came to represent for a long time, his name itself representing tyranny. It was on his body that the glorious statue of Muhammad bin Qasim was to be erected, holding the flag of Pakistani nationalism.

 

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While the nationalist project, on one hand, had its successes, exemplified by the attack on Ranjit Singh’s statue. It is never completely successful, with constant challenges being thrown at this deterministic narrative. The most recent challenge to this national story comes from Sindhi sub-nationalists, who have over the years tried inverting these symbols, casting Raja Dahir as the real hero – the Ram of the story – andimage.png.81343abf33a6b68a069d005bc434e7a9.png

 

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 while keyboard warriors engage in a debate on Muhammad bin Qasim and Raja Dahir, the real debate that needs to happen is about the relationship between the Sindh provincial government and the federal state. Unfortunately, when this debate is held through these symbols, the real issues are often forgotten and never addressed.

https://thewire.in/south-asia/muhammad-bin-qasim-raja-dahir-sindh-pakistan-nationalism

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Aṭīyya b. Saʿa b. Junāda al-ʿAwfī (Arabic: عَطِیَّة بن سَعد بن جُناده العَوفي) was one of the Tabi'un and a companions of Imam Ali (a) in Kufa. He was allegedly a Shiite exegete, muhaddith, and jurist. He wrote a book concerning the exegesis of the Qur'an. He was born during the caliphate of Imam Ali (a), and died in Kufa in 111/729. He participated in the Uprising of al-Mukhtar and the Uprising of Abd al-Rahman b. Muhammad al-Kindi against Hajjaj b. Yusuf. He was whipped at the command of Hajjaj because he refused to curse Imam Ali (a). As is well-known, 'Atiyya accompanied Jabir b. Abd Allah al-Ansari in his visit (ziyara) of the first Arba'in of Imam al-Husayn (a).

 

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 he was born in Kufa during the caliphate of Imam Ali (a).[4] When he was born, his father took him to Imam Ali (a) to give a name to him. The Imam (a) took him in his arms and then said, "this is 'atiyyat Allah' (literally, an endowment of God)". Thus, he was called "Atiyya".[5] Imam Ali (a) allocated a monthly payment for him from the governmental treasury.[6] His teknonym was Abu l-Hasan.[7] He is also known with titles such as Awfi, Jadali, Qaysi, and Kufi.[8]

 

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In the Uprising of Ibn Ash'ath

Atiyya attended the uprising of Abd al-Rahman b. Muhammad al-Kindi against Hajjaj b. Yusuf, and after Ibn Ash'ath's defeat, he fled to Fars. Hajjaj wrote a letter to Muhammad b. Qasim al-Thaqafi to summon Atiyya and ask him to curse Ali (a), and if he refused to do so, then whip him 400 times and shave his head and beard. When he was summoned, he refused to curse Ali (a). Thus, Muhammad b. Qasim whipped him 400 times, and shaved his head and beard.[24].[25]

 

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Atiyya_b._Sa'd_b._Junada_al-Awfi

https://rch.ac.ir/article/Details?id=10132

https://www.jstor.org/stable/29754928

 

 

image.png

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9 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

The hatred and persecution of Saadat and Shia by the Banu Umayyah is quite well documented in  history. You might want to look at the services rendered in this regard  by Bin Qasim's (L.A) Emir, Hajjaj Ibn Yusuf (L.A).

I understand, the Ummayads did not always get along with the children of Fatima (a). But to assert that Muhammad b. Qasim invaded India for the prime purpose of persecuting Syeds is a stretch. I'm not sure you can substantiate that claim. 

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