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Removing doubts about Shi'a Islam

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Guest Malik Haider

I've had a question in my mind which has bothered me.

Why did Imam Hassan drink his wife's poison, knowing what was in? Can this be considered suicide (na'uzobillah)? 

I just want to know, salam.

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When someone is on a Mission from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and to fulfill His Directives, whatever comes he must undergo and endure, knowingly or unknowingly.

When Musa(عليه السلام) went to confront Firoun and he didn't know that his cane can turn into real snake.

Ibrahim (عليه السلام) has to slaughter Ismail (عليه السلام), but at the last minute Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) replaced Ismail (عليه السلام) with an animal.  Who will slaughter a son?

Wallahualam 

Layman.

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On 5/20/2022 at 9:05 AM, Guest Malik Haider said:

Why did Imam Hassan drink his wife's poison, knowing what was in? Can this be considered suicide (na'uzobillah)? 

Salam without  doubt any infallible  Imam (عليه السلام) doesn't  commit suicide but on the other hand all them knew that their life has been  in danger since their birth or maybe before born in case of Imam  Mahdi (aj) which in case of Imam  Hasan (عليه السلام) he himself stated that he has been poisoned  many times by cursed Muawiah (la) before last poisoning  by his wife which he has survived previously but he knew that he won't survive from last poisoning  by his wife also he has not eaten poison  by his choice.

Did “Muawiyah” order Imam “Hassan” [AS] to be poisoned?Manipulating facts by clean hands!

 

Quote

 

As Sunni scholars have admitted, “Ibn Sa’d” and “Tabari” have quoted the story of Imam “Hassan” [AS]’s poisoning at the instruction of “Muawiyah” in their books but this issue has been deleted from these books!

After mentioning the name of group of Sunni scholars who believed that “Muawiyah” ordered “Hassan bin Ali” [AS] to be poisoned, “Sibt bin Jawzi al-Hanafi” writes:

“Shu’bi” has said: the reason of this saying is that Imam “Hassan” who had realized this act of “Muawiya” said: you made his wish coming true, swear by god he won’t fulfill his promise and won’t live up to what he said.

Quote

Scholars including “Ibn ‘Abd al-barr” have said:”Ja’da”, daughter of “Asha’th bin Qays”,Imam “Hassan” [AS]’s wife, has poisoned him.

“Suddi” has said: “Yazid bin Muawiyah” sent her message secretly that if you poison “Hassan”, I’ll marry you to my son, “Ja’da” did so, when Imam “Hassan” passed away, she sent someone to “Yazid” to fulfill his promise, he answered: swear to god we were dissatisfied of what you did to Hassan, will it accept it about ourselves?

“Shu’bi” has said: “Muawiyah” sent her message secretly and said: poison “Hassan”, I’ll let you marry “Yazid” and will give you one hundred thousand Dirhams. When “Hassan” left the world , she sent someone to “Muawiya” to grant his promise, “Muawiya” sent the money for her and said: I like “Yazid” and want him to live, if it didn’t happen I’d let you to marry him.

 “Shu’bi” has said: the reason of this saying is that Imam “Hassan” who had realized this act of “Muawiya” said: you made his wish coming true, swear by god he won’t fulfill his promise and won’t live up to what he said.

“Ibn al-Jawzi Hanbali” has said in his book “as-Sifat”: “Ya’qub” bin Sufyan” has written in his “history book”: “Ja’da” is the one who poisoned Imam Hassan and poet has said in this regard:

{O World} you deceive! How enjoyable you are {that you can tempt people}/// despite the pressure of grief, but people are happy because of you! /// the grief made by the demise of prophet and his successor and Hussein’s martyrdom and Hassan’s poisoning!

And “ibn Sa’d” in his book “Al-Tabaqat”: “Muawiyah” poisoned Imam “Hassan” [AS] several times; because he and his brother “Hussein” would come to “Sham”. {city in Syria}

Sibt al-Jawzi al-Hanafi, “Tazkirat al-Khawas- p191, 192

https://www.valiasr-aj.com/english/shownews.php?idnews=458

https://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5941:mu-awiya-s-plot-to-poison-imam-hasan-as&catid=576&Itemid=671

A forensic hypothesis for the mystery of al-Hasan’s death in the 7th century: Mercury(I) chloride intoxication

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4923806/

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[18]. Refer to the following relation historical books from both the Shia and Sunni schools of thought: Irshād Mufīd, pgs. 356 and 357; Manāqib Ibn Shahr Āshūb, vol. 4, pgs. 47-49; Biḥār al-Anwār, vol. 44, p. 147; Tārīkh al-Khulafāʾ by Suyūṭī, p. 214; Sharḥ Nahj al-Balāghah by Ibn Abī al-Ḥadīd, vol. 16, p. 29; Mukhtaṣar Tārīkh al-Damishq, vol. 7, p. 39; Tadhkirat al-Khawāṣ by Sibṭ ibn Jawzī, pgs. 191 and 192. Ibn ʿAbd al-Birr in his Istīʿāb (vol. 1, p. 440) has mentioned some details in the life of Imam Hasan (ʿa) and he has written in this regard: Some have mentioned that the woman poisoned the Imam based on a plot hatched by Muʿāwīyah due to a sum of money that was paid to her. ( وَ قَالَتْ طائِفَةٌ: كَانَ ذَلِكَ مِنْهَا بِتَدْسِيسِ مُعاوِيَةَ إِلَيْهَا وَ مَا بَذَلَ لَهَا فِي ذلِكَ).

https://makarem.ir/news/en/News/Details/400574/Some-Teachings-from-the-Life-of-Imam-Al-Hasan-(39%3Ba)-by-Ayatollah-Makarem-Shirazi

https://www.al-khoei.org/martyrdom-of-al-imam-alhasan/

https://www.erfan.ir/english/86106.html

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Posted (edited)

Knowing much earlier on how Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) want us to die in His (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) way is not suicide.  It is an honor and blessings. So we have a mission to live and how to die.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) wanted Imam Ali (عليه السلام) to die due the sword struck on his head while making sujud.  If Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has other way of Imam Ali to die, Ali (a) would have survived the blow from Ibnul Muljam.

Imam Hassan (عليه السلام) has survived earlier poisoning attempts, but the last type of poison, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) wanted Imam to die.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) chooses how each Imam to die from various attempts to kill them. Ibnul Abd Wud struck Imam Ali (عليه السلام) on the head during one to one fight in the battle of Khandaq.  Imam Ali (عليه السلام) survived.  Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) wanted Imam Ali to survive... and make a voice from the sky "no sword better than zulfikar and no men better than Ali". That strike cause some mark on Ali (عليه السلام) head but did not killed him.

Majority of us will know when we will going to die, but just a few seconds, minutes, or hours ahead.  It is too late to most of us. Let say we involve in major car accident, we have just few seconds to realize that we are going to die.  Imagine if we know years ahead on how we are going to die (like Imams).  We will make preparations for it. It will be a blessing and not a suicide.

Usually when an Imam got killed, Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) wanted us to know the who are the real enemies of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).  So future generation can learn and save themselves.

Wallahualam. 

Edited by layman
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On 11/14/2020 at 3:05 PM, MaisumAli said:

 

 

On 5/19/2022 at 11:35 PM, Guest Malik Haider said:

I've had a question in my mind which has bothered me.

Why did Imam Hassan drink his wife's poison, knowing what was in? Can this be considered suicide (na'uzobillah)? 

I just want to know, salam.

Salam, Imam al-Hassan (عليه السلام) sacrificed himself not suicide, there's a difference. This is when Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) wanted him to die & the Imam (عليه السلام) accepted it. The same can be said for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام), why did he continue to fight them in a 72 vs 40,000? Anyone would surely know they'd die correct? apply the same logic

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Guest Anonymousmuslim313

Salam all, I have a few questions. Recently I have been getting back into religion and learning. My family is Shia and I’ve been watching lectures and everything. I went to a Shia Mosque and after the lecture, they started reciting a Arabic poem and people were hitting their chests in sync with their shirts off. Then it got faster and they were bending down and moving their hands In a motion (like a dance with all due respect) then hitting their chest in the rhythm to the recitation. I asked them after what they were doing and they said “they are mourning Karbala”. I asked why are you making this specific motion and they said look up Karbala. I know what happened and I get sad too but I don’t understand the “ritual” for lack of better terms. I can’t do it and I wanna know why people do it. The prophet didn’t do it, the prophet cried which it is okay to cry. But I don’t think if the prophet was live today, we would do this ritual of moving ur hands and body up and down and hitting chest. 

my question is.

1.  What is the origin of the specific movements, NOT the mourning.

2. During prophets times and imams time, they recorded every thing even speeches. What is the first mourning poem?

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The concept of mourning for Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) dates back to the times of the Aimmah (عليه السلام) and in fact even the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) who mourned for Hussain (عليه السلام) several years before the event of Karbala  (more info here)

The specific rituals which are popular today in certain regions were mainly developed afterwards, particularly during the times of the Buyid, Qajar and Safavid dynasties.

Chest beating was an existing method of mourning the dead among Arab women even during the time of the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) but it's development as a specific ritual for mourning Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) developed much later. It is one possible method of mourning among many others. I expect in the coming years people will eventually develop their own methods which are more consistent with their time, culture and education. 

Regarding the first ever lamentation, I am not aware but a famous one from the time of Imam al Ridha is the poem by Di'bil which has been rewritten in English here: Link

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On 5/20/2022 at 9:05 AM, Guest Malik Haider said:

I've had a question in my mind which has bothered me.

Why did Imam Hassan drink his wife's poison, knowing what was in? Can this be considered suicide (na'uzobillah)? 

I just want to know, salam.

The response is simple. According to at least two hadiths, God makes them forget at that specific moment:

ُ أَلْقَى اللَّهُ عَلَى قَلْبِهِ النِّسْيَانَ لِيَقْضِيَ فِيهِ الْحُكْم

Bihar al-anwar, vol. 27, p. 286

So no, it isn't considered suicide.

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On 5/8/2022 at 5:08 PM, Sayed_hamood said:

سلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

If someone is having doubts about Shi'a Islam or the Qur'an and has no one to talk to, inshallah I could answer your questions. 

What is you intellectual proof for necessity of imamah

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, sunni muslim said:

What is you intellectual proof for necessity of imamah

1. There always needs to be a living Hujjah. Saying the 'Quran & Sunnah' is our hujjah is not a valid reply as they are not living proofs. The Qur'an and Sunnah were revealed through the lips of Rasoolulah  (saws), or his actions, not as texts. Sahih al-Bukhari was written by a man living centuries after the Prophet (saws), his book can't all of a sudden become Allah's hujjah. Very pathetic claim. The Qur'an as well, it's not got everything we need (for example prayer) it's not the hujjah for us. That would be incredibly unfair to every society getting a hujjah who,

-Can answer all their questions.

-Is Infallible and mustahab to imitate 

-Is salvation for the people 

And now we don't get this anymore but rather as a said, a  'hujjah' which can't answer all our questions and we can't imitate in a way where we can understand day to day lives. 

Atleast Imam Sahib al-Zaman (ajtf) is a living Hujjah, while we can't directly receive answers from him he still is able to go and answer people just not like others before. He is in ghayba, which isn't a breach to Allah's sunnah as it was common to be hujjahs in ghayba before such as Neby Yunus (عليه السلام), Neby Isa (عليه السلام) and so on. 

2. There needs to be someone to protect the message otherwise what would stop Islam going through what Christianity went through? 

3. Hadiths were burned and mostly banned under the caliphate of Abi Bakr, Umar ibn al-Khattab, Uthman ibn Uff'an than allowed during the time of Ali ibn Abi Talib (عليه السلام) and than being forbidden again by Muawayiah ibn Abi Sufyan and all of the Umayyad dynasty until Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz who lifted the ban permanently.

Seriously, where are we going to get our hadiths from? Our tafsir? Our fiqh? Our aqidah? Where are we going to get the knowlegde of Rasoolulah (saws) from? 

People will forget things overtime, and just like the problems of individuals such as A'isha bint Abi Bakr, Malik ibn Anas & Abu Huraira, they would just makeup hadiths or tamper with them or attribute lies to them and that happened very often with Abdullah ibn Abbas (رضي الله عنه). Where people would attribute sayings to him about narrating hadiths such as fasting on Ashura, but forgetting at the time he was like 4 years old.

Once you study history you just realise there is some kind of neccassaity for Imamah it does not make ANY sense for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to just leave us and let us do what we want. How can this religion be entrusted in the hands of fallible people??

4. Khalifa / Imamah has always been chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in the Qur'an (for among the people). From Neby Adam (عليه السلام) all the way to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saws), every prophet, rasool, wasi, imam, khalifa, weli and so-so has all been chosen by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). This is clearly part of Sunnat Allah to always choose his leadership. Why all of a Sudden, did Sunnat Allah stop? Why is it changing all of a sudden and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is allowing anyone to represent him? This is an insult to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), an insult to Rasoolulah (saws) and an insult to Islam itself. 

 

This is just a logical explanation, if you want divine in the Qur'an or Hadiths it gets even easier, I can even use the bible for it. Imamah is just the most logical and most neccassary belief ever Wallah it's crazy how ignorant some [people] are. 

Edited by Hameedeh
Edit: [people]
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5 hours ago, Sayed_hamood said:

. There always needs to be a living Hujjah. Saying the 'Quran & Sunnah' is our hujjah is not a valid reply as they are not living proofs. The Qur'an and Sunnah were revealed through the lips of Rasoolulah  (saws), or his actions, not as texts. Sahih al-Bukhari was written by a man living centuries after the Prophet (saws), his book can't all of a sudden become Allah's hujjah. Very pathetic claim. The Qur'an as well, it's not got everything we need (for example prayer) it's not the hujjah for us. That would be incredibly unfair to every society getting a hujjah who,

-Can answer all their questions.

-Is Infallible and mustahab to imitate 

-Is salvation for the people 

All of these are false. If there is imam needed to be present at all times to answer all people, then it is obligatory on the imam of our time to come out of his major occultation and start answer our questions in the religion. Shia now have to follow different maraji who use ahadith of previous infallibles to answer all question. 

 

5 hours ago, Sayed_hamood said:

Atleast Imam Sahib al-Zaman (ajtf) is a living Hujjah, while we can't directly receive answers from him he still is able to go and answer people just not like others before

There is no proof of that. Dreams and stories of people meeting him are not hujjah in religion. Anyone can claim anything regarding dreams and all. 

 

5 hours ago, Sayed_hamood said:

He is in ghayba, which isn't a breach to Allah's sunnah as it was common to be hujjahs in ghayba before such as Neby Yunus (عليه السلام), Neby Isa (عليه السلام) and so on

Sorry to break your heart, sunnis don't claim that there needs to be a divine hujjah at every time. We don't use intellect to base our religion. We use quran and sunnah. 

 

5 hours ago, Sayed_hamood said:

There needs to be someone to protect the message otherwise what would stop Islam going through what Christianity went through

Indeed. And the present guide don't protect this religion. Despite his presence, Shia differ over many issues, follow different mujtahids who all differ in their fatawa. 

 

5 hours ago, Sayed_hamood said:

Seriously, where are we going to get our hadiths from? Our tafsir? Our fiqh? Our aqidah? Where are we going to get the knowlegde of Rasoolulah (saws) from? 

Seriously, where do our imam narrating hadith, answering fiqh question, providing us tafseer, giving us guidance in aqidah. 

 

5 hours ago, Sayed_hamood said:

People will forget things overtime, and just like the problems of individuals such as A'isha bint Abi Bakr, Malik ibn Anas & Abu Huraira, they would just makeup hadiths or tamper with them or attribute lies to them and that happened very often with Abdullah ibn Abbas (رضي الله عنه). Where people would attribute sayings to him about narrating hadiths such as fasting on Ashura, but forgetting at the time he was like 4 years old

Those companions did greater job that the imam of our time conceying the religion to us. 

 

5 hours ago, Sayed_hamood said:

Once you study history you just realise there is some kind of neccassaity for Imamah it does not make ANY sense for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) to just leave us and let us do what we want. How can this religion be entrusted in the hands of fallible people??

Sorry to break your heart. He did entrusted his religion in the hands of fallible mujtahids who use ahadith of previous imams which were narrated and compiled by fallible people. 

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On 8/6/2022 at 2:04 AM, hadez803 said:

The response is simple. According to at least two hadiths, God makes them forget at that specific moment:

ُ أَلْقَى اللَّهُ عَلَى قَلْبِهِ النِّسْيَانَ لِيَقْضِيَ فِيهِ الْحُكْم

Bihar al-anwar, vol. 27, p. 286

So no, it isn't considered suicide.

why would God do that?

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