Divorce

[Zainabb]

Is it true that if a woman asks for a divorce she gets no share? And only if a guy asks for divorce the wife will get some part? But this is so unfair...like a girl who's with her husband for 8 years and in an abusive relationship and she's financially not stable and if she asks for a divorce why will she not get the share? 

[notme]

Agreed it's not fair, but that seems to be the scholarly consensus. 

If he's abusive he's not likely to be willing to divorce amicably anyway. He's going to want control.

[Hassan-]

The wife is entitled to her dowry (mahr) even if she asked for a divorce. The only time when she is not entitled to it is when she does a khali’ divorce with her husband.

[notme]

46 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

The wife is entitled to her dowry (mahr) even if she asked for a divorce. The only time when she is not entitled to it is when she does a khali’ divorce with her husband.

So to be clear, if the woman asks her husband for divorce and he (amicably) agrees, she may keep her mahr, but if she demands divorce due to him being intolerable to her, she is not?   Basically, if he's a good and decent man and she wants to divorce him anyway, she keeps her mahr?  

Technically, even if she demands divorce because she despises him, he has to agree before it is valid.  

[Hassan-]

3 minutes ago, notme said:

So to be clear, if the woman asks her husband for divorce and he (amicably) agrees, she may keep her mahr, but if she demands divorce due to him being intolerable to her, she is not?   Basically, if he's a good and decent man and she wants to divorce him anyway, she keeps her mahr?  

Technically, even if she demands divorce because she despises him, he has to agree before it is valid.  

Whether she asks or demands for a divorce and the husband grants her it, he must give her the mahr. Only a khali’ divorce, which is when the wife agrees to step down from her mahr in return for the husband to divorce her, is the exception.

[notme]

5 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

Whether she asks or demands for a divorce and the husband grants her it, he must give her the mahr. Only a khali’ divorce, which is when the wife agrees to step down from her mahr in return for the husband to divorce her, is the exception.

So you're saying if the husband wants to keep it, he can?  Because that's what this sounds like.

[Hassan-]

14 minutes ago, notme said:

So you're saying if the husband wants to keep it, he can?  Because that's what this sounds like.

No, I said if the wife agrees to it. If she doesn’t agree, and he divorces her, he must give her the mahr.

[notme]

45 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

No, I said if the wife agrees to it. If she doesn’t agree, and he divorces her, he must give her the mahr.

Right.  So if wife asks for divorce, which is the scenario we are discussing, husband can demand that she return her mahr. Correct? 

He also can simply refuse.  That's condemned in the Quran, but not prohibited, according to our scholars.  

[Guest Passerby]

I don't know about your mazhab "مذهب" or your country's law... but here in Egypt, the wife has three ways to divorce herself without her husband's approval:

1- Making a condition in the marriage contract to divorce herself. (not common)

2- Seeking divorce by the court if she can prove the husband is (abusive, cheap or impotent). in this case she will keep her mahr "مهر" and all the gifts and the jeweleries she had from him, also she will get her alimony.

3- Seeking khali’ "خلع" by the court. even if the husband is a nice guy, She can give back all the things she got from him and give up her alimony, and she is free!

[Hassan-]

54 minutes ago, notme said:

Right.  So if wife asks for divorce, which is the scenario we are discussing, husband can demand that she return her mahr. Correct? 

He also can simply refuse.  That's condemned in the Quran, but not prohibited, according to our scholars.  

What do you mean he can refuse? If you are talking about mahr, he can’t refuse. If wife demands it he must give her the mahr. If wife doesn’t want it then husband doesn’t need to give it. It’s pretty simple.

[notme]

15 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

What do you mean he can refuse? If you are talking about mahr, he can’t refuse. If wife demands it he must give her the mahr. If wife doesn’t want it then husband doesn’t need to give it. It’s pretty simple.

I mean he can refuse to divorce her.

My ex-husband initially refused to divorce me. I was able to persuade him, but if I had not been able, I'd have been left neither functionally married, nor single, at his discretion.

[Ashvazdanghe]

1 hour ago, notme said:

So if wife asks for divorce, which is the scenario we are discussing, husband can demand that she return her mahr.

 

Quote

If a woman has a attorney in divorce (Advocacy for the right to divorce) from her husband, whether she can receive the dowry in addition to the divorce depends on the limits of the powers contained in the power of attorney given by the husband.

Note that if the woman requests a divorce based on hardship, Acceptance of giving  away dowry   and the final decision in this regard is with the court, although the wife announces the proposal and the amount of giving away dowry to the court, but if the woman requests a divorce based on the conditions , During the marriage, the wife herself will accept the giving away dowry on behalf of the husband. In other words, it is more and easier to get a large number of dowries based on the twelve terms of the contract.

 

Quote

For example, if a man is sentenced in court to pay arrears of alimony for at least the last 6 months of woman which does not pay alimony despite the ruling, according to the first condition of the marriage contract - assuming the man has signed - the woman Can file for divorce

 

Quote

For example, if her dowry is 200 coins , she will give away one coin in return for the divorce with the mentioned reason, leaving the rest to the couple, and finally the court, after considering the divorce case for not paying alimony for six month ,According to the alimony conviction, the divorce decree will release the dowry by giving away one coin .

https://parsaylawyers.com/درخواست-طلاق-و-مهریه/#agr_zn_drkhwast_tlaq_knd_mhryh_bh_aw_tlq_my_gyrd

[Zainabb]

On 4/25/2022 at 8:17 AM, Hassan- said:

Whether she asks or demands for a divorce and the husband grants her it, he must give her the mahr. Only a khali’ divorce, which is when the wife agrees to step down from her mahr in return for the husband to divorce her, is the exception.

Wht is the husband is not ready to divorce the wife and wife still wants it? Will she get share? Will she be allowed to keep the mahr

[notme]

2 minutes ago, Zainabb said:

Wht is the husband is not ready to divorce the wife and wife still wants it? Will she get share? Will she be allowed to keep the mahr

If the husband doesn't agree to divorce, she doesn't get divorce at all, let alone keep the mahr.  

[Hassan-]

On 4/25/2022 at 1:11 AM, notme said:

I mean he can refuse to divorce her.

My ex-husband initially refused to divorce me. I was able to persuade him, but if I had not been able, I'd have been left neither functionally married, nor single, at his discretion.

Dear sister, he can refuse to divorce her but that doesn’t mean she can’t receive her mahr. 

mahr is not bound by a divorce, the wife can ask for it anytime during marriage and husband must pay her immediately.

In marriage a women has more rights than a man, you will be surprised. 

[notme]

1 hour ago, Hassan- said:

In marriage a women has more rights than a man, you will be surprised. 

So would a lot of men. 

If the mahr has not been paid, the woman requests it and the man refuses, does the woman gain the right to divorce? Or what if the husband refuses financial support such that the wife is forced to work for an employer to provide for herself and children? 

[Hassan-]

10 hours ago, notme said:

So would a lot of men. 

If the mahr has not been paid, the woman requests it and the man refuses, does the woman gain the right to divorce? Or what if the husband refuses financial support such that the wife is forced to work for an employer to provide for herself and children? 

It’s obligatory for the husband to provide for his family. Not doing so may provide sufficient grounds for a divorce.

[notme]

1 minute ago, Hassan- said:

It’s obligatory for the husband to provide for his family. Not doing so may provide sufficient grounds for a divorce.

Yes, it is sufficient grounds.  But if he refuses, she isn't divorced, and scholars who will intervene on her behalf are nonexistent.

[Zainabb]

4 hours ago, notme said:

Yes, it is sufficient grounds.  But if he refuses, she isn't divorced, and scholars who will intervene on her behalf are nonexistent.

She can take khula(divorce without the consent of husband) right? 

[notme]

2 minutes ago, Zainabb said:

She can take khula(divorce without the consent of husband) right? 

Should be, but no.  

[Zainabb]

1 hour ago, notme said:

Should be, but no.  

No, a girl can take khul' check everywhere

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 4/29/2022 at 5:31 AM, Zainabb said:

She can take khula(divorce without the consent of husband) right? 

Salam it's last resort which needs fulfilling  many conditions  .

[notme]

On 4/28/2022 at 10:19 PM, Zainabb said:

No, a girl can take khul' check everywhere

That's what the Quran says, but it doesn't work like that in our world.  

[Zainabb]

3 hours ago, notme said:

That's what the Quran says, but it doesn't work like that in our world.  

But atleast Islam approves khula...

[Zainuu]

13 hours ago, notme said:

That's what the Quran says, but it doesn't work like that in our world.  

Salaam sister,

Khula does work. Most of the divorces I have heard happen through Khula only.

Processes can be tedious and long. In Islam, divorce itself is a tedious process because Islam encourages sustainance of relationships.

And yeah. Unfortunately true, at times society just aims to be Islamic but never works that way.

[notme]

17 hours ago, Zainuu said:

Khula does work. Most of the divorces I have heard happen through Khula only.

You know of cases of divorce in which the man never agreed? I have heard of none. 

If the man has any dignity, a threat to tell the community why she wants divorce might be sufficient to obtain his agreement.  If he even lacks that, I don't know of any recourse for her to be freed from his entrapment..

[Zainabb]

14 hours ago, notme said:

You know of cases of divorce in which the man never agreed? I have heard of none. 

If the man has any dignity, a threat to tell the community why she wants divorce might be sufficient to obtain his agreement.  If he even lacks that, I don't know of any recourse for her to be freed from his entrapment..

Yes, i have come across cases where the men denied to give divorce despite treating their wives like [Edited Out] just because if they give divorce the girl will be able to Marry someone else.

[notme]

2 hours ago, Zainabb said:

Yes, i have come across cases where the men denied to give divorce despite treating their wives like [Edited Out] just because if they give divorce the girl will be able to Marry someone else.

That's not what I'm asking.  I asked if he knew of cases which resulted in divorce even when the man persisted in refusal.