How can I stand up to the LGBT? (need advice)

[guest 2025]

   

4 hours ago, kadhim said:

The story of Lot (عليه السلام) is a powerful one, but unfortunately doesn’t have any connection to the topic at hand.

People are having a discussion here. Could you please avoid posting about unrelated tangents? Thanks. 

I suppose all you can do to keep arguing here is play ignorant and not respond to people's points. 

 

2 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

Why you so mad though?

Haters usually have an angry and suspicious disposition and mindset. "The whole world is against me/us." "The whole world is conspiring against us/me." "Woe is me!" "Poor us." 

Anyways, best of luck to you in your endeavors. 

Allah will judge us all fairly and justly. 

Wassalam

 

Just like the brother above, you have intellectually run away.

 

Look at the rudeness, the ad hominems, the accusations (of engaging in evil, inadvertent kufr, being a tin-foil hat wearer, anti-science, and more), the harsh language, the intellectual dishonesty, the sarcasm. 

By Allah, the way you two behave is a testament to your falsehood. I advise the people here to not get dragged into this intellectually dishonest mess. The discussion has shifted from why you shouldn't pull the flag, to why you should respect the LGBT, to why the LGBT has done no wrong, to why you're oppressing the gays, and now they're trying to argue about if it's genetic or environmental. You're not going to win, they can do this all day because as soon as you get them in a grip they bite your arm and change the discussion. 

19 minutes ago, SoRoUsH said:

There we go folks. Another tinfoil-hat conspiracy theorist, as expected. "Everyone is conspiring against me/us." "Woe is me/us." "I am so smart for figuring out this conspiracy." "Science ... Schmience."

Alright. I'm done. Best of luck in all your future endeavors.

Wassalam

Yeah dodge his argument and run away.

[SoRoUsH]

10 minutes ago, guest 2025 said:

Just like the brother above, you have intellectually run away

If thinking this makes you feel better, then by all means go ahead. 

When it comes to conspiracy theorists and science denialists, there's no point or sense in being dragged into their rabbit holes. 

As I said, Allah will judge us all fairly and justly. 

(My last response to you)

Wassalam

Edited April 16 by SoRoUsH

[notme]

52 minutes ago, Guest Psychological Warfare said:

you are redefining Science. It is not evidence based and factual and proven to be a fact. '

No,  I'm not.  There are very few facts in science. 

 

46 minutes ago, Guest Psychological Warfare said:

Type " No gay gene" on the web. 

-----

Conceptually, Nature made male and female for a purpose. A person with healthy sexual organs, It would be considered an malfunction in the brain, hence a mental disorder. And need to be treated as such. 

Nature also makes cannibalism.  

But also many species charge gender as their conditions change.  Many others will only mate if conditions are right for it.  It's not just a mental state,  even among non-human creations. 

[Guest Psychological Warfare]

Let's discuss what we do know.

Our Social Environment does have an impact on us. Especially the young ones exposed to it. and the mentally impaired young adults. 

Creating an environment by 'Marketing" their agenda through flags, gatherings, parade Tv/print/internet/movie ( Media) Marketing 101. 

Question is do you have rights? Do you have the right to safeguard the ones who do not know the reality- 

Is Exposing the young mind to something like this service to Humanity ? it is Abuse . 

It is not what Nature intended, we are here for procreation. So, Marketing something which is unnatural allowed in what constitution of the intellectuals allow. 

[kadhim]

1 hour ago, guest 2025 said:

 
I suppose all you can do to keep arguing here is play ignorant and not respond to people's points. 

???

Akhi. The story of Lot doesn’t have anything to do with homosexuality. 

It’s about this:

Qur'an 29:28-29

وَلُوطًا إِذْ قَالَ لِقَوْمِهِۦٓ إِنَّكُمْ لَتَأْتُونَ ٱلْفَـٰحِشَةَ مَا سَبَقَكُم بِهَا مِنْ أَحَدٍۢ مِّنَ ٱلْعَـٰلَمِينَ

أَئِنَّكُمْ لَتَأْتُونَ ٱلرِّجَالَ وَتَقْطَعُونَ ٱلسَّبِيلَ وَتَأْتُونَ فِى نَادِيكُمُ ٱلْمُنكَرَ

ۖ فَمَا كَانَ جَوَابَ قَوْمِهِۦٓ إِلَّآ أَن قَالُوا۟ ٱئْتِنَا بِعَذَابِ ٱللَّهِ إِن كُنتَ مِنَ ٱلصَّـٰدِقِينَ

“And when Lot said to his people: “You certainly commit abominations that no man has ever done before you.

Is it really possible that you approach men, cutting off their path, and doing evil (to them) in gangs? 

His people’s only response to this was to say: “Bring God’s punishment upon us, if what you say is true.”

The story of Lot is about the men of Lot roving in gangs to waylay and sexually assault men from other places (مِنَ الْعَالَمِينَ) who were either visiting the town as guests or passing by the town on the roads. In violation of sacred codes of hospitality toward visitors and toward travellers.

That’s why the mob showed up at Lot’s door when they heard rumours that he had guests, as well as why they talked about having forbid him previously from having guests. Because Lot believed in protecting guests and the vulnerable. 

Quran 15:70

قَالُوا أَوَلَمْ نَنْهَكَ عَنِ الْعَالَمِينَ

Have we not forbidden you from (sheltering) outsiders? 

This is the abomination that the people of Lot were destroyed for.

 

Edited April 16 by kadhim

[notme]

1 minute ago, kadhim said:

Have we not forbidden you from (sheltering) outsiders? 

This is the abomination that the people of Lot were destroyed for.

The Bible narrative of Lot is also about lack of hospitality toward foreigners.  

[VoidVortex]

19 hours ago, notme said:

Remember the hadith about wishing for your fellow human the same as you would wish for yourself? Do you want to be allowed to live your life in peace without fear of violence or harassment? Do you want to wear the clothes you feel are right,  and do the things you feel are right? Do you want to marry a person who you like and would be happy sharing a life with? 

Could you elaborate what you mean by this. If I wish for myself to drink alcohol and do drugs, and I wish fellow humans what I want for myself does that make it fine for others to drink and do drugs. I assume the hadith is talking about wishing for myself and fellow believers permissible things, not unlawful things. The point about living life in peace and free of violence or harassment is a given, and all human beings, gay or not deserve that. The point of marrying someone we like has nothing to do with same-sex marriage. It only applies to marrying the opposite gender and finding a good opposite gender spouse. I like for myself to marry with happiness, but this does not mean I would wish for others to have good marriages with the same-sex. In fact as same-sex "marriages" are detested by God believers should detest it too. 

[Mahdavist]

I think this discussion is going to end up becoming circular.

@kadhim  as others have pointed out, there is a difference between an individual who happens to be attracted to the same gender, and the modern day ideology that is LGBT. The former has committed no sin as long as they don't act on their desires, while the latter is the active promotion of something that the Qur'an refers to as fahshah, which is often translated as lewdness

@SoRoUsH I don't agree that LGBT is fighting for 'all the rights' and even if this was your argument then recall that the Qur'an instructs us not to mix truth with falsehood.

Just because certain political parties hand us a few incentives does not mean that we should change our stance on principles that are already clearly addressed by our religion. 

 

[VoidVortex]

4 minutes ago, kadhim said:

???

Akhi. The story of Lot doesn’t have anything to do with homosexuality. 

It’s about this:

Qur'an 29:28-29

وَلُوطًا إِذْ قَالَ لِقَوْمِهِۦٓ إِنَّكُمْ لَتَأْتُونَ ٱلْفَـٰحِشَةَ مَا سَبَقَكُم بِهَا مِنْ أَحَدٍۢ مِّنَ ٱلْعَـٰلَمِينَ

أَئِنَّكُمْ لَتَأْتُونَ ٱلرِّجَالَ وَتَقْطَعُونَ ٱلسَّبِيلَ وَتَأْتُونَ فِى نَادِيكُمُ ٱلْمُنكَرَ

ۖ فَمَا كَانَ جَوَابَ قَوْمِهِۦٓ إِلَّآ أَن قَالُوا۟ ٱئْتِنَا بِعَذَابِ ٱللَّهِ إِن كُنتَ مِنَ ٱلصَّـٰدِقِينَ

“And when Lot said to his people: “You certainly commit abominations that no man has ever done before you.

Is it really possible that you approach men, cutting off their path, and doing evil (to them) in gangs? 

His people’s only response to this was to say: “Bring God’s punishment upon us, if what you say is true.”

The story of Lot is about the men of Lot roving in gangs to waylay and sexually assault men from other places who were either visiting the town as guests or passing by the town on the roads. In violation of sacred codes of hospitality toward visitors and toward travellers.

That’s why the mob showed up at Lot’s door when they heard rumours that he had guests, as well as why they talked about having forbid him previously from having guests. Because Lot believed in protecting guests and the vulnerable. 

Quran 15:70

قَالُوا أَوَلَمْ نَنْهَكَ عَنِ الْعَالَمِينَ

Have we not forbidden you from (sheltering) outsiders? 

This is the abomination that the people of Lot were destroyed for.

 

Bring one scholarly view that is in agreement with what you are saying.

Quote

 

Hazrat Imam ‘Ali al-Ridha’ (‘a) has said;

“Refrain from adultery and sodomy, and this sodomy is worse than adultery. These two sins are the causes of seventy two ills of this life and the Hereafter.”7

The Qur’an has used the word ‘indecency’ for adultery in the way it has also used it for sodomy. It is said in Surah al-Ar’af:

“And (we sent) Lut when he said to his people: What! Do you commit an indecency which anyone in the world has not done before you?” (Surah al-Ar’af 7:80).

“Most surely you come to males in lust besides females. Nay you are a prodigal people”. (Surah al-Ar’af 7:81).

What could be more indecent than the act where man squanders away his sperms in a way prohibited by Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).) instead of allowing them to reach the wombs of women to ensure the continuation of the human race.

Sodomy and homosexuality are denounced in Surah Hud, Surah Al-’Ankabut, Surah Qamar, Surah an-Najm in addition to Surah al-Ar’af; so that the people are fully warned. Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).) has strictly forbidden such a loathsome act.

 

from the book greater sins by Ayatollah Dastghaib

[SoRoUsH]

29 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

I don't agree that LGBT is fighting for 'all the rights' and even if this was your argument then recall that the Qur'an instructs us not to mix truth with falsehood.

Just because certain political parties hand us a few incentives does not mean that we should change our stance on principles that are already clearly addressed by our religion.

I am not sure what you mean here. 

The LGBTQ are fighting to be seen and treated as equals to non-LGBTQ people. They want to not feel threatened to behave as they're inclined to do. They want to not be the targets of harassment, abuse, and ridicule, like others. 

To say they are humans like us and should be treated as such is not mixing truth with falsehood. They have human rights and can do as they wish, in secular democracies. When they commit homosexual acts, like sodomy, then they are sinning. They may be sinners, but they are humans. In secular societies, it's the humanness that takes priority over sinfulness.

Their disposition and proclivity, which are influenced by genetics and biology, push them in the direction of sin. However, having such desires in itself is not a sin, acting upon them is. If they are Muslims, then they are faced with a very hard test in their lives. If they are not Muslims, then they shouldn't care what a bunch of Muslims think of their choices, since they either don't believe in sins or hold different things as sinful. And in secular democracies, all beliefs are equal.

At no point has there been a mixing of truth with falsehood. I have been very clear, and at no point I have supported the sin of sodomy or homosexual behavior. 

My position is that getting triggered by rainbow flags is absolutely ridiculous and indicates a complete misunderstanding of the situation. As I've said, people who get triggered by rainbow flags, they have a problem with inclusivity. 

There's no change in principles, when one encourages others to be decent human beings and treat LGBTQ people with basic human rights and to see them as equals. 

The nuance that is often not understood is that there's a distinction between supporting humans as humans and supporting their sinful behaviors. We ought to be on guard to not de-humanize people, to not view them as lesser humans. 

Edited April 16 by SoRoUsH

[kadhim]

4 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

I think this discussion is going to end up becoming circular.

@kadhim  as others have pointed out, there is a difference between an individual who happens to be attracted to the same gender, and the modern day ideology that is LGBT.

With all respect. I’ve seen a few people here try to invent these sorts of distinctions, but I strongly dispute your opinion here.

I think it’s fundamentally misleading to try to portray the LGBT movement as an “ideology.” An ideology is about an idea system that people are trying to propagate. Communism is an ideology. Islam is an ideology. I don’t perceive the LBGT movement as that. 

The LGBT movement is simply about these people saying, “we are this way in our nature, we accept ourselves in that, we are going to be the way we are, and we are not harming anyone in that, so the rest of the world needs to leave us alone.” That’s not an ideology. That’s just a vulnerable minority trying to protect itself.

Portraying this as an “ideology” falls subliminally into the old toxic myth that homosexuality is some sort of mental contagion that people are “infected” with or “converted to.” We know now (or at least most people know) it doesn’t work like that. Being gay or bisexual or transsexual or whatever is just—if you’ll forgive me using the term—some people’s fitrah.

A person can’t be converted to be gay. It’s there or it’s not. 

I will say, for myself anyway, that if the conversation truly stops moving into new directions and just starts to spin in circles, I will be the first to bail and leave it. One thing I have mastered in the past years, alhamdulillah, is the self-control to do that. I don’t think it’s quite there yet, though, to be honest. 

My humble suggestion based on experience. Just leave it be. This conversation will play itself out by either later today or early tomorrow. 

[Guest Psychological Warfare]

In a democracy, the Majority rules.  Just see where we go with the "Rights" conversation.

1) Some say accept us

2) Most say leave us and our children alone -

You thoughts? 

[kadhim]

38 minutes ago, VoidVortex said:

Bring one scholarly view that is in agreement with what you are saying.

from the book greater sins by Ayatollah Dastghaib

We’re people with brains of our own having a conversation on the internet. I don’t think we need to hide behind appeals to authority. If you think what I’m saying has problems, then point those out in your own words, and I can try to elaborate further in response in defence of my ideas. That’s how this is supposed to work. 

To add to what I said before. The Quran’s account of Lot is not about homosexuality or gay sex in themselves. That said, as the  text you quoted pointed out, if we look at hadith, there are texts that more explicitly talk negatively about same-sex sex activities, and I am not disputing that fact. (Though even there I do think it’s doubtful whether even those texts are about homosexuality per se)

[VoidVortex]

Quote

The nuance that is often not understood is that there's a distinction between supporting humans as humans and supporting their sinful behaviors.

but supporting the lgbt community is supporting their sinful behaviour. Its definitely possible to treat gay people like human beings without supporting lgbt. Nobody here has dehumanised the people themselves and said we should abuse them, we said that the movement was satanic, which it is. It has corrupted society, like adultery has. Poor children at very young ages are starting to become "trans"(without justification) and worrying about sexuality, whilst their parents encourage this. Ideas of 100 genders have started to pop up, where people are identifying as all sorts of things. Secular society is suffering because of this movement themselves, as it suffers from the other vices like adultery that affect it. 

Quote

we are not harming anyone in that, so the rest of the world needs to leave us alone.”

they are harming a lot of people through their actions. They certainly don't keep to themselves. LGBT lobbies exist to push agendas. They are the ones not leaving the world alone. If you disagree with them in a society of "free speech", you might be fired, or cancelled. How many children have they tried to push their ideas upon. 

LGBT videos - YouTube

I enjoyed watching the above videos.

[VoidVortex]

7 minutes ago, kadhim said:

We’re people with brains of our own having a conversation on the internet. I don’t think we need to hide behind appeals to authority.

When claims are made about the Quran that are not true, then we bring the interpretations of our scholars to disprove them. It's unanimous across sunni and shia that both Quran and Hadith prohibit homosexuality and the verses of the Quran are forbidding homosexuality. People trying to claim otherwise need to bring a source of authority, someone who has a deep understanding of Quran and hadith and is a true scholar, who has sacrificed their life for God. 

My dear brother, I ask you to pray to God for my own guidance and yours. 

[kadhim]

12 minutes ago, VoidVortex said:

Ideas of 100 genders have started to pop up, 

If you disagree with them in a society of "free speech", you might be fired, or cancelled.

Just an FYI so that you can improve the way you talk about this in the future. This claim that LGBTQ promote an idea of “100 genders” or “57 genders” or what not. I fact checked this myself, and can confirm there is no basis to this claim. It’s just a made up meme. LGBTQ folks will talk about basically 3 or maybe 4 depending on how you count it: male, female, neither, or both.

[Eddie Mecca]

Here's a good example on how to properly combat the ideas being purported by the LGBTQIA community in an intellectual way by Ben Shapiro (I know he's pro-Zionist...put that aside for a moment)

 

[kadhim]

10 minutes ago, VoidVortex said:

When claims are made about the Quran that are not true, then we bring the interpretations of our scholars to disprove them. It's unanimous across sunni and shia that both Quran and Hadith prohibit homosexuality and the verses of the Quran are forbidding homosexuality. People trying to claim otherwise need to bring a source of authority, someone who has a deep understanding of Quran and hadith and is a true scholar, who has sacrificed their life for God. 

My dear brother, I ask you to pray to God for my own guidance and yours. 

I just presented a few verses with a very straightforward translation applied to them and offered a reading. 

Again, if I’m wrong, you should be able to show where I went wrong linguistically or in terms of where you think this reading conflicts with other parts of the narrative. It’s not something that relies on appeal to authority. Just apply your own mind to the task. 

[Eddie Mecca]

Here's another example of how to properly rebuttal LGBTQIA arguments in a cerebral manner by Afrocentric activist Dr. Umar Johnson 

 

Edited April 16 by Eddie Mecca

[notme]

1 hour ago, VoidVortex said:

The point about living life in peace and free of violence or harassment is a given, and all human beings, gay or not deserve that.

This is actually the entire point.  

 

1 hour ago, VoidVortex said:

The point of marrying someone we like has nothing to do with same-sex marriage.

Marriage is a religious and cultural practice.  You can't dictate what people of other cultures do in a secular society, so long as it's between/ among consenting adults.  

[guest 2025]

47 minutes ago, kadhim said:

???

Akhi. The story of Lot doesn’t have anything to do with homosexuality. 

It’s about this:

Qur'an 29:28-29

وَلُوطًا إِذْ قَالَ لِقَوْمِهِۦٓ إِنَّكُمْ لَتَأْتُونَ ٱلْفَـٰحِشَةَ مَا سَبَقَكُم بِهَا مِنْ أَحَدٍۢ مِّنَ ٱلْعَـٰلَمِينَ

أَئِنَّكُمْ لَتَأْتُونَ ٱلرِّجَالَ وَتَقْطَعُونَ ٱلسَّبِيلَ وَتَأْتُونَ فِى نَادِيكُمُ ٱلْمُنكَرَ

ۖ فَمَا كَانَ جَوَابَ قَوْمِهِۦٓ إِلَّآ أَن قَالُوا۟ ٱئْتِنَا بِعَذَابِ ٱللَّهِ إِن كُنتَ مِنَ ٱلصَّـٰدِقِينَ

“And when Lot said to his people: “You certainly commit abominations that no man has ever done before you.

Is it really possible that you approach men, cutting off their path, and doing evil (to them) in gangs? 

His people’s only response to this was to say: “Bring God’s punishment upon us, if what you say is true.”

The story of Lot is about the men of Lot roving in gangs to waylay and sexually assault men from other places (مِنَ الْعَالَمِينَ) who were either visiting the town as guests or passing by the town on the roads. In violation of sacred codes of hospitality toward visitors and toward travellers.

That’s why the mob showed up at Lot’s door when they heard rumours that he had guests, as well as why they talked about having forbid him previously from having guests. Because Lot believed in protecting guests and the vulnerable. 

Quran 15:70

قَالُوا أَوَلَمْ نَنْهَكَ عَنِ الْعَالَمِينَ

Have we not forbidden you from (sheltering) outsiders? 

This is the abomination that the people of Lot were destroyed for.

 

God almighty what am I reading with my own eyes. We really are living in the end of times where good and evil are flipping. It is so explicitly obvious that the story is about homosexuality. Just like how it is so OBVIOUS that the Prophet (عليه السلام) didn't use the word "wali" as friend. And you even dismissed the scholars because it's "an appeal to authority."

Do you realize that you are corroding our religion with this argument? Never mind all you've said before, this is crossing a red line. Because our enemies will repeat them to confused Muslims and establish it as the Islamic position. And what will come next? The next step, which is to make homosexuality halal just as the Christians did. 

"Lot wasn't about homosexuality." If only you realized what abyss you've dug for yourself with these simple words...

"Why do you ˹men˺ lust after fellow men, leaving the wives that your Lord has created for you? In fact, you are a transgressing people. They threatened, “If you do not desist, O  Lot, you will surely be expelled.” Lot responded, “I am truly one of those who despise your ˹shameful˺ practice.""

 

 

1 hour ago, SoRoUsH said:

If thinking this makes you feel better, then by all means go ahead. 

When it comes to conspiracy theorists and science denialists, there's no point or sense in being dragged into their rabbit holes. 

As I said, Allah will judge us all fairly and justly. 

(My last response to you)

Wassalam

What makes me feel better is that you're going to explain yourself to Angels on Judgement Day, not your snarky sass.

 

 

Well that's enough from me, now I'M running away with my sanity. I'm glad this thread was made because it uncovered what was really in the hearts of Muslims. I now know not to assume a Muslim I meet doesn't support the LGBT and will adjust my behavior likewise. 

 

Just one last thing: Based on obligatory precautions, you should make up your fast. 

Things that break the fast according to Sistani:

4. based on obligatory precaution, ascribing false things to Allah, Prophet Muḥammad (Ṣ), and the successors of Prophet Muḥammad (Ṣ) [i.e. the Twelve Imams (ʿA)];

 

 

[VoidVortex]

BBC removes '100 genders' video after new complaints - The Christian Institute

the 100 genders thing actually happened. The BBC presented a video to children about 100 genders. 

I watched the above vid many times because of how entertaining it was 

BBC programme tells 9-year-olds there are 'over 100 genders' | Daily Mail Online

[VoidVortex]

28 minutes ago, guest 2025 said:

I now know not to assume a Muslim I meet doesn't support the LGBT and will adjust my behavior likewise. 

you should still assume the best of muslims. Most muslims don't support it. 

Edited April 16 by VoidVortex

[kadhim]

1 hour ago, guest 2025 said:

"Why do you ˹men˺ lust after fellow men, leaving the wives that your Lord has created for you? In fact, you are a transgressing people. They threatened, “If you do not desist, O  Lot, you will surely be expelled.” Lot responded, “I am truly one of those who despise your ˹shameful˺ practice.""

So we are talking about 26:165-168. 
 

أَتَأْتُونَ الذُّكْرَانَ مِنَ الْعَالَمِينَ

وَتَذَرُونَ مَا خَلَقَ لَكُمْ رَبُّكُم مِّنْ أَزْوَاجِكُم ۚ
بَلْ أَنتُمْ قَوْمٌ عَادُونَ

قَالُوا لَئِن لَّمْ تَنتَهِ يَا لُوطُ لَتَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْمُخْرَجِينَ

قَالَ إِنِّي لِعَمَلِكُم مِّنَ الْقَالِينَ

“Is it that you approach foreign males, and abandon those wives who are created for you by your Lord?

No. Rather, (it is that) you are people who transgress bounds.

They said, “If you do not stop, O Lot, you will be of those who are cast out.”

Replied (Lot), “I am one who despises your deeds.”

====

So two things here. The linguistic structure here with the question, and then the negation with the conjunction بَلْ would typically seem to indicate a negation or correction. Is the driving issue simply that they are doing sexual things with foreign men? (And note how the emphasis on them being foreigners (مِنَ الْعَالَمِينَ) reinforces the reading I offered before about this being about violence against foreigners)

No. The real issue is the transgressing of  boundaries beyond that. The violence against other people. The transgression of rights of travellers and of codes of hospitality to foreigners.

Now. Important comment. Same sex acts may well still be a problem, religiously—and indeed, our hadith do seem to say so—but it is not the driving concern in itself here in this story is my point. It’s about something deeper.

Think. If I am totally off the mark here, why the emphasis on the foreign aspect here? If this is about consensual acts, and the townspeople are into that, why the involvement of foreigners? Why is that emphasized? It’s an odd addition otherwise.

Another point. You’re saying the story is about “homosexuality.” But it’s talking about “abandoning wives.” So these “gay men” had wives? 

Moreover, stats say gay men make up something like 1-2% of men. This story makes it out that it was a large part of the town doing these deeds. So even by stats most of this or all of this was something else. 

The story is not about “gayness.” 

There’s more to it. 

 

 

Edited April 17 by kadhim

[kadhim]

1 hour ago, guest 2025 said:

Just one last thing: Based on obligatory precautions, you should make up your fast. 

Things that break the fast according to Sistani:

4. based on obligatory precaution, ascribing false things to Allah, Prophet Muḥammad (Ṣ), and the successors of Prophet Muḥammad (Ṣ) [i.e. the Twelve Imams (ʿA)];

 

 

So, message to the moderation team.

So some of these guys have been taking cheap shots questioning my faith pretty much all throughout this. 

I’ve been really nice about it so far.

But I would really appreciate it if you could, you know, do your jobs and push back on some of these statements that really go far over the line. 

Thanks. 

Edited April 17 by kadhim

[kadhim]

1 hour ago, VoidVortex said:

BBC removes '100 genders' video after new complaints - The Christian Institute

the 100 genders thing actually happened. The BBC presented a video to children about 100 genders. 

I watched the above vid many times because of how entertaining it was 

BBC programme tells 9-year-olds there are 'over 100 genders' | Daily Mail Online

You see, this is what I was talking about. When you trace back anywhere people are complaining about the idea of “100 genders,” you end up at this BBC page they are talking about in the video. 

Where did the BBC get that idea? No one knows. It seems to have come out of nowhere. 

In reality, the trans-lady in the video is pretty representative of the actual reality of the mainstream of the community and how they think. If you look on information published by the actual community, you see something like what this lady is saying. Like I said, male, female, and some non-binary in between or beyond. That’s it. 

One category beyond the two we’re used to. And as Muslims, the idea of intermediate gender should not be entirely unfathomable a priori, given that gender is like the mental equivalent of sex, and intersex is an established category in Islamic law going back to the earliest days.

As an aside, I also hope the idea of transsexuality in itself is not a show stopper for you, given Khomeini’s 1984 fatwa recognizing it as a legitimate thing. One can of course disagree with his perspective, but one can’t deny that he had credentials and that therefore acceptance of trans is within the limits of orthodox ikhtilaaf.

This video underlines another interesting point that is important to understand if you want to have an understanding that gets beyond hysterics to facts. 

The straight cis dude is a good representation of something that is an issue, which is well-meaning but over the top “over-woke” liberal allies going beyond what the actual LGBTQ community by and large even wants. There are people like this who overdo it, and cause problems for the real people involved by making this all into some sort of caricature. But I want to be clear, I distance myself from the hysterical “anti-woke” crowd too. Reality is in between.

Another note. The existence of people who connect themselves to the movement saying over the top, exaggerated things does not delegitimize the movement itself when what they say goes beyond what the mainstream of the community actually believes and wants. Any more than Daesh or al-Qaeda represent or delegitimize us as Muslims. 

[SoRoUsH]

3 hours ago, VoidVortex said:

but supporting the lgbt community is supporting their sinful behaviour.

Not at all! 

Historically, LGBTQ people have been subjected to harassment, abuse, beatings, and even murdered. They have and do face discrimination and bigotry. They regularly face violence, verbal, emotional, and physical. To deny any of this is to close one's eyes to reality. 

Supporting LGBTQ people as humans means wanting them to be treated as humans equal to us; preventing abuse and harassment and bigotry against them. It does not mean supporting sodomy or fellatio. It does not mean supporting their sexual sins. It means realizing they're humans like us, and due to a variety of reasons, internal and external, they have homosexual tendencies. Some choose to act on those tendencies, but we don't support those actions. We support their right to make choices for themselves, for their own lives; acknowledging that, like the rest of us, they will face the consequences of their choices. 

Homophobes, bigots, and haters, really want them to face the consequences of their actions, in this world; whereas decent believers know that God is just and will treat them fairly.

We ought to acknowledge that we are clueless as to what is in their hearts, and what has been in their pasts, and what is the state of their biology and genetics. 

3 hours ago, VoidVortex said:

the movement was satanic, which it is

This is just invalid conspiratorial thinking. Lazy black-and-white thinking. 

This "movement" is perfectly in line with secularism and liberalism and enlightenment. It perfectly fits the trajectory. It was just a matter of time. There's no evil cabal hiding in the shadows. There's no conspiracy. This is just a natural outcome of secularization, separating state from religion. Once God has been removed from the equation, everything that follows will be human whims and desires. 

We are where we are because change takes time. We couldn't be where we are now, 30-40 years ago. And in terms of sinfulness, things will get worse, much worse. But then again, there's no evil cabal behind the scene, no conspiracy. Just human nature, and Godless (secular) governments. 

Getting triggered by rainbow flags and LGBTQ human rights is akin to trying to stop a tsunami by angrily yelling at it, or shooting guns at a tornado to stop it from coming near you. 

Instead, you ought to practice and learn how to swim, when the wave hits the shore. Find and put on your life jackets. Attach your ropes to a strong foundation and grab on to them. 

3 hours ago, VoidVortex said:

It has corrupted society, like adultery has. Poor children

"It" hasn't corrupted the society. "It" is a natural outcome of an already-corrupted society; a society where alcohol and adultery and gambling run rampant. "It" isn't corrupting children any more than Hollywood has been corrupting children, for decades before "it" appeared. 

Again, to pick on "it" is to completely misunderstand where we are in the bigger scheme of things.

As for the "poor children", good Muslim parents ought to continue what they have been doing for decades, way before this "movement." They ought to talk to their kids about God and His laws. They would be talking to their kids about LGBTQ stuff, in the same way they have been talking to their children about people who drink alcohol, people who gamble, people who eat pork and etc. 

There's nothing new! 

3 hours ago, VoidVortex said:

Secular society is suffering because of this movement themselves

No.

Secular society is suffering, because it has removed God-consciousness from the picture. Secularization of societies has been happening for a very long time. This "movement" perfectly fits the secularization trajectory of the Western societies. 

In conclusion, stop shooting at the tornado, stop yelling at the tsunami, and instead, pick up a life jacket and learn how to swim. 

Edited April 17 by SoRoUsH

[Guest Psychological Warfare]

Phase 1: Feminist movement

Phase 2: Woodstock- free pleasure

Phase 3: Lgbtqhyzh soup- unrestricted pleasure

You know this playbook, brand them as Victims and control the conversation. Any opposition- brand them as haters, abusers. 

Secular society is concerned with humane values not sins.

Human values= let me live in pleasure and make money.

Sin=when you stop me from my pleasure or making money. 

[Mahdavist]

@kadhim @SoRoUsH

If I read you correctly, the LGBT movement for you is essentially a means of protecting people from persecution.

I don't think this is the case, rather discrimination laws were already in place to protect all people regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation religion. 

I see it as the active promotion of alternative lifestyles and the redefinition of the traditional family structure. The consequences are not restricted to same sex couples alone, rather they impact children now that same sex couples are allowed to marry and adopt.

It is enough as a muslim to disassociate from such a movement when it promotes haram (same sex relationships) , but it becomes a duty as a human being, and not just a muslim human being, when children's lives become impacted as well. 

The topic of homosexuality, how it should be approached and how it should be understood is important. However I feel like your concerns on that topic have prematurely pushed you into a defensive position on LGBT. Although there are interfaces I think both should be viewed separately.

To me as a muslim and as a citizen of a country with freedom of speech and thought, I believe it is essential that I can and should disassociate myself from this movement for the reasons mentioned above. 

A society in which LGBT cannot be questioned or countered, and where there is only one accepted position, can no longer be called a free society. 

[Uni Student]

@kadhim @SoRoUsH opinions on same sex couples adopting?

[Uni Student]

6 hours ago, kadhim said:

Akhi. The story of Lot doesn’t have anything to do with homosexuality. 

 

6 hours ago, kadhim said:

The story of Lot is about the men of Lot roving in gangs to waylay and sexually assault men from other places

Brother you just refuted your own point

[kadhim]

3 minutes ago, Uni Student said:

 

Brother you just refuted your own point

Subhanallah. Wow.
If you don’t know the difference between sexuality and rape I don’t know what to say. 

[kadhim]

47 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

However I feel like your concerns on that topic have prematurely pushed you into a defensive position on LGBT.

Elaborate.

[Laayla]

Whoever is promoting this degenercy, you are not in the fold of wilayat Amir al mo2mneen.

I wish Shia Islam is removed from their bio.  This causes confusion to the youth.

God hasten the appearance of the Imam.

The lies, manipulation, and propaganda that is pushing the alphabet agenda have no limits.

This is the result of what liberalism has done to Muslims in the west.

[kadhim]

2 minutes ago, Laayla said:

Whoever is promoting this degenercy, you are not in the fold of wilayat Amir al mo2mneen.

I wish Shia Islam is removed from their bio.  This causes confusion to the youth.

God hasten the appearance of the Imam.

The lies, manipulation, and propaganda that is pushing the alphabet agenda have no limits.

This is the result of what liberalism has done to Muslims in the west.

 

Reported.