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In the Name of God بسم الله

How can I stand up to the LGBT? (need advice)

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Salam, I hope you're well. I am in a situation where I'm not sure what to do as a Muslim. You see, I attend college, a college which is about 50% Muslim. However in the center of campus is planted about 100 mini LGBT flags in a sort of circle design. I feel inclined to pull out a flag and throw it in the trash every time I walk past it, but I'm not really sure if this is a good idea.

Would I be emboldening Muslims by standing up to sin in front of everyone? Or would I make us look bad in case someone records me and berates me. If the second thing happens, I think I have very poor speaking skills so I'd embarrass us on an international platform if it goes viral. Not to mention, I may get in trouble with the college.

So far I've only pulled out a flag when nobody happened to be looking. Should I do more? What would please Allah? I would love to hear what you think.

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7 hours ago, Guest Mark said:

Salam, I hope you're well. I am in a situation where I'm not sure what to do as a Muslim. You see, I attend college, a college which is about 50% Muslim. However in the center of campus is planted about 100 mini LGBT flags in a sort of circle design. I feel inclined to pull out a flag and throw it in the trash every time I walk past it, but I'm not really sure if this is a good idea.

Would I be emboldening Muslims by standing up to sin in front of everyone? Or would I make us look bad in case someone records me and berates me. If the second thing happens, I think I have very poor speaking skills so I'd embarrass us on an international platform if it goes viral. Not to mention, I may get in trouble with the college.

So far I've only pulled out a flag when nobody happened to be looking. Should I do more? What would please Allah? I would love to hear what you think.

If you're in a secular, non-muslim, country, there's nothing that you can or should do. 

Feel bad and uncomfortable in your heart. Do not condone the sin, in your heart. 

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7 hours ago, Guest Mark said:

Salam, I hope you're well. I am in a situation where I'm not sure what to do as a Muslim. You see, I attend college, a college which is about 50% Muslim. However in the center of campus is planted about 100 mini LGBT flags in a sort of circle design. I feel inclined to pull out a flag and throw it in the trash every time I walk past it, but I'm not really sure if this is a good idea.

Would I be emboldening Muslims by standing up to sin in front of everyone? Or would I make us look bad in case someone records me and berates me. If the second thing happens, I think I have very poor speaking skills so I'd embarrass us on an international platform if it goes viral. Not to mention, I may get in trouble with the college.

So far I've only pulled out a flag when nobody happened to be looking. Should I do more? What would please Allah? I would love to hear what you think.

Brother, its written in Quran that when believers come across bad things, they leave in peace. What you have witness is bad, but it would be wise to ignore it and focus on your education.

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This is a foolish impulse. 
What would you think you would even be achieving, aside from embarrassing Muslims in the process? 

There would not even be a message in this. Do you think they don’t know that many Muslims have hangups about LGBTQ? Trust me, they are well and painfully aware. Many of them have experienced vitriol from self-righteous religious people most of their lives.

That harmless piece of rainbow fabric that so triggers you is a symbol of that struggle that they have faced. And an expression of resoluteness to live their lives as they are, free of persecution or harassment and their determination not to slide back on the progress they have achieved over decades of struggle. 

That’s their black and red flag. 

You can accept that or not, scoff at it or not, but that’s the reality of what it means to them. But I would hope, at a minimum, as a Shia raised in the culture of fighting oppression, and even just as a functional human being with the compassion and empathy that your and their creator imbued you with, that you could at least comprehend and grudgingly respect that.

Regardless of whatever hangups you might have about whatever things they do in their bedroom that are none of your business in the first place.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

expressing non heterosexual norms in public is not allowed in Islam

Yes. For a Muslim. Or in an Islamic society. 

This is an important qualifier. 

We cannot expect non-muslims, in a secular society, to care for or follow our Islamic norms. It is absolutely bizarre and illogical and irrational for Muslims to get triggered by a rainbow flag, in a secular non-muslim society, when there are so many other sins concurrently happening and being promoted, which they seem to be cool with and not get triggered by them. 

Non-muslims, in secular societies, have no responsibility whatsoever to follow or care for our Islamic rules and precepts. And we need to understand that. 

We can ban rainbow flags in our mosques, but if someone 20 meters away from our mosque puts up a rainbow flag, in a public space, there's nothing that we can or should do. 

We cannot impose our beliefs upon non-muslims, especially in secular societies. 

1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

but by the same measure it expects a certain level of discretion. 

For Muslims, and in Islamic societies. 

Again, that is an extremely important qualifier.

Edited by SoRoUsH
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14 hours ago, Uni Student said:

What country are you in out of curiosity? 

US

7 hours ago, kadhim said:

Regardless of whatever hangups you might have about whatever things they do in their bedroom that are none of your business in the first place.

I strongly disagree. There are long term social consequences in a society that accepts the lgbt. If the damage was contained within their bedrooms I would not care as much, but they are corrupting society with their indecency. We're at the point where a woman being a virgin is considered a red flag, and nationally accepted sexual deviance played a giant role in that. And not to mention, nahi anil munkar (forbidding what is evil).

I thank you all for your responses. I understand that I am not bound by duty to remove the flags. @Mahdavist I think the idea of emailing the college is really good. I will do this, and then at least I said something. Thank you again, I appreciate it.

I can't wait until Imam Mahdi appears and ends this nightmare. 

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1 hour ago, Guest Mark said:

 @Mahdavist I think the idea of emailing the college is really good. I will do this, and then at least I said something. Thank you again, I appreciate it.

Please make your letter anonymous. You don't want to be identified as a homophobic troublemaker. If your name gets revealed, your instructors, lecturers or professors could give you lower grade reports in retaliation. 

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47 minutes ago, Uni Student said:

Wow, which American college is this that is 50% muslim? Is it private?

Any college/university in the Dearborn area has a sizable Muslim population. Because the city population is already 50% (or so) Muslim anyway.

 

13 minutes ago, Hameedeh said:

Please make your letter anonymous. You don't want to be identified as a homophobic troublemaker. If your name gets revealed, your instructors, lecturers or professors could give you lower grade reports in retaliation. 

I've already sent it before I read this. I don't think I'll face trouble because I have complained in the past when they sent out emails for pride month. I responded with "I am Muslim, keep this degeneracy away from me." And this only got me into a very annoying argument with a representative who tried to convince me that the LGBT is more important because you don't choose to be gay but you do choose your religion. Then they tried to say the LGBT suffered more than Muslims. I don't take them seriously or respect their authority. But I'm starting to think that acting in this harsh way may not be in our best interest.

I think that even though the liberals want to destroy our religion from the inside out, they will still pretend to respect and care about us because we're a minority.

And even if I do get hit-back, I will receive a beautiful compensation for it in the afterlife at their expense.

I just wish I could effectively stand up to them.

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2 hours ago, Muhammed Ali said:

educating other people about the truth will better.

As @Hameedeh says above, it's best not to say or do anything that may identify you, since the repercussions are likely to be nasty.

7 hours ago, SoRoUsH said:

Yes. For a Muslim. Or in an Islamic society.

I know that's why my first sentence was so say they should do nothing.

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Posted (edited)

In our situation we can do not much and it is wise to just Ignore. This happened also with muslims in the time of Prophet (saws) when they were living in Mecca. You can not put yourself in the situation where shame and harmfulness for you and other muslims will happen.

Edited by Abu Nur
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1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

As @Hameedeh says above, it's best not to say or do anything that may identify you, since the repercussions are likely to be nasty.

By 'others' I didn't mean those who he needs to be wary of. He can speak to his trusted friends to help them with issues that may confuse them. And on a larger scale he could promote the notion of Tawheed and other pertinent issues. It can be done online or at his local mosque etc. 

Some ideas naturally flow from others.

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56 minutes ago, Guest Mark said:

"I am Muslim, keep this degeneracy away from me."

And even if I do get hit-back, I will receive a beautiful compensation for it in the afterlife at their expense.

Be very careful. We are living in a cancel culture and its not worth destroying your future in this life. You want to establish a good career so you can raise a family. as an individual you can not do much to push back against these institutions, so it’s best not to destroy yourself in vain

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Guest Mark said:

I strongly disagree. There are long term social consequences in a society that accepts the lgbt. If the damage was contained within their bedrooms I would not care as much, but they are corrupting society with their indecency. We're at the point where a woman being a virgin is considered a red flag, and nationally accepted sexual deviance played a giant role in that. And not to mention, nahi anil munkar (forbidding what is evil).

This is flimsy, muddled, and inflammatory thinking. 
If you want to look at this in a reality-based way, it is essential to distinguish two distinct, orthogonal dimensions here.

1. There is people’s sexual orientation.
2. And there is the manner in which people express their orientation in their relationships or lack thereof. 

Two distinct things. 

So you can for example be heterosexual, but behave like a wild debauched libertine, having sex casually with whoever without any sort of meaning or structure to it or commitment to the other human being beyond scratching animal itches.

Or you can be Cameron and Mitchell who are gay, but committed to each other in an otherwise more or less traditional monogamous relationship with understood terms and responsibilities. 

It’s not about the orientation of the people in the relationships. It’s about whether or not people en masse have faith and commitment to structured, meaningful relationships with understood rules and responsibilities. 

You’re trying to tell me that gay people having relationships that are basically gay versions of traditional straight relationships are a threat to the heterosexual order? How does that work? Gay people are like,  1%, maybe 2% of the population. How does 1% by itself push over the other 98-99%?

And please no “slippery slope” arguments. I’m sorry, but imagined scenarios are not in themselves a rational argument. 

Let’s be brutally honest here. If gays are out there embracing marriage, and we straights still can’t figure out how to maintain our own relationships, newsflash. That’s our own damned fault, not theirs. 

Edited by kadhim
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18 minutes ago, kadhim said:

So you can for example be heterosexual, but behave like a wild debauched libertine, having sex casually with whoever without any sort of meaning or structure to it or commitment to the other human being beyond scratching animal itches.

Or you can be Cameron and Mitchell who are gay, but committed to each other in an otherwise more or less traditional monogamous relationship with understood terms and responsibilities. 

both are destroying the fabric of society

18 minutes ago, kadhim said:

You’re trying to tell me that gay people having relationships that are basically gay versions of traditional straight relationships are a threat to the heterosexual order? How does that work? Give me a break, man.

yes

18 minutes ago, kadhim said:

Gay people are like,  1%, maybe 2% of the population. What kind of new math is this? 

a lot more with the newer generation

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, VoidVortex said:

@kadhim

why so harsh brother. There is a way to advise the brother in a more gentle manner whilst outlining your arguments. 

There’s a difference between firm and direct vs harsh. I think I stayed reasonably well on the left side of the line, but if you have any specific suggestions for improvement, I’m all ears. :)

Edit: Alright. In the spirit of taking advice seriously, I rounded off some of the pointier edges. 

Edited by kadhim
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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Uni Student said:

both are destroying the fabric of society

yes

a lot more with the newer generation

Re: the first two points, I’m sure you believe. But in the world of facts, you can’t just assert that and call it a day. Can you explain your thinking? How do you think that works? Specifically the case of the two gay dudes or lesbian women in a stable relationship. The first example of the libertine straights, I can see the argument there for destabilizing society. 

As for the last point, not actually true. Not supported by research. People who identify as “gay” or “lesbian,” full stop, there’s no real movement in the numbers. Same approximate figures now as it was decades ago.

What has gone up, especially for women, is the number of people who are willing to come out and identify themselves as bisexual, that is, interested in both. 

But that’s a separate category. 

Edited by kadhim
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1 hour ago, kadhim said:

And please no “slippery slope” arguments. I’m sorry, but imagined scenarios are not in themselves a rational argument. 

First all they wanted was for us to not hate them. They got that. Then they said they wanted tolerance. They got that. Then they wanted acceptance. They got that. Then they wanted support. They got that. Then, they took bakers to court for not making gay wedding cakes. Then we had drag-queen story time. Then they implemented queer sex-ed in the curriculum for 5 year olds in the UK. Then the president of the US said he would withdraw foreign aid if countries "discriminate" against the LGBT. Then the EU threatened to cut funding for a region in Poland for not supporting LGBT. Then they decided that fictional characters who have been established as hetero for decades are now LGBT (Superman the worst case).

It doesn't matter what their percentage is. Look at the grip they have over society. They have the backing of the media, corporations, society, Christians, military, government, left, right. And what do they want next? The backing and support of Muslims. There's already mosques that hold gay weddings. Do you think that happened organically? Or are there evil satanic forces backed by the literal devil himself that wish to corrupt the world?

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13 minutes ago, Guest ring said:

First all they wanted was for us to not hate them. They got that. Then they said they wanted tolerance. They got that. Then they wanted acceptance. They got that. Then they wanted support. They got that. Then, they took bakers to court for not making gay wedding cakes. Then we had drag-queen story time. Then they implemented queer sex-ed in the curriculum for 5 year olds in the UK. Then the president of the US said he would withdraw foreign aid if countries "discriminate" against the LGBT. Then the EU threatened to cut funding for a region in Poland for not supporting LGBT. Then they decided that fictional characters who have been established as hetero for decades are now LGBT (Superman the worst case).

It doesn't matter what their percentage is. Look at the grip they have over society. They have the backing of the media, corporations, society, Christians, military, government, left, right. And what do they want next? The backing and support of Muslims. There's already mosques that hold gay weddings. Do you think that happened organically? Or are there evil satanic forces backed by the literal devil himself that wish to corrupt the world?

I can’t help but notice this sounds a whole lot like the “creeping stealth jihad” arguments that American conservatives write about Muslims in the West. 

What is your response when you read those sorts of arguments? 

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4 hours ago, Guest Mark said:

I responded with "I am Muslim, keep this degeneracy away from me."

If this is true, then you seriously need to grow up and face the fact of where you live and what's the world like around you. Not only you're ruining it for yourself, your rash actions may make things harder for other Muslims. 

There's no piety in being hard-headed, prideful, and rash. There's no piety in being oblivion. 

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21 hours ago, Guest Mark said:

Salam, I hope you're well. I am in a situation where I'm not sure what to do as a Muslim. You see, I attend college, a college which is about 50% Muslim. However in the center of campus is planted about 100 mini LGBT flags in a sort of circle design. I feel inclined to pull out a flag and throw it in the trash every time I walk past it, but I'm not really sure if this is a good idea.

Would I be emboldening Muslims by standing up to sin in front of everyone? Or would I make us look bad in case someone records me and berates me. If the second thing happens, I think I have very poor speaking skills so I'd embarrass us on an international platform if it goes viral. Not to mention, I may get in trouble with the college.

So far I've only pulled out a flag when nobody happened to be looking. Should I do more? What would please Allah? I would love to hear what you think.

Walaikum assalam,

I have the same problem at my school. I would advise you not to throw them in the rubbish, (although that's essentially where they belong), because it may make Muslims look bad. The holy Quran says,

Quote

وَلَا تَسُبُّوا۟ ٱلَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِ ٱللَّهِ فَيَسُبُّوا۟ ٱللَّهَ عَدْوًۢا بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ ۗ كَذَٰلِكَ زَيَّنَّا لِكُلِّ أُمَّةٍ عَمَلَهُمْ ثُمَّ إِلَىٰ رَبِّهِم مَّرْجِعُهُمْ فَيُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا كَانُوا۟ يَعْمَلُونَ

And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did. (6:108)

Same kind of thing, if we insult the LGBTQRST+++++++++++++++++++++++++ community, they may come back and insult us.

So with my situation, I'm a house captain at school so I have regular meetings with staff. I don't directly ask them to stop supporting LGBTQRST+++++++ people, but when the topic comes up and they try to support them more, I say that we already support them enough so there's no need for more. 

However, lately I've been thinking that the situation's getting out of hand because I can't open one door which doesn't have the rainbow flag on it. I think I'm gonna take a stand for Islam and politely ask them to lay off a bit on the support. idk

If you cannot discuss the issue with someone in your situation, then maybe you don't have to do anything. The holy Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) says,

"He who sees wrong being done should redress the situation with his own hand, and if he cannot do so then with his tongue, and if he cannot do so then with his heart [disapproving the act], and that is the weakest level of faith."

(Source: Al-Targhib Wal-Tarhib, Vol. 3, Pg. 223, No. 1)

Also, Taqiyyah needs to be taken into account as well. I would recommend watching this lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epW1Pc-AHnw

So here's my humble advice:

1. Since physically meddling with the flags may be bad for the image of Islam, don't do that. 

2. If you have the ability/capability to speak out and try to have a discussion about the flags, do that. 

3. If you cannot even speak out for whatever reason, just reject to LGBTQRST++++++++++ in your heart. 

Again, this is only my advice. 

May Allah bless, protect, guide, help, and have mercy on you and your family and grant you Jannat Al-Firdaus. 

Ma3salam. 

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3 hours ago, kadhim said:

I can’t help but notice this sounds a whole lot like the “creeping stealth jihad” arguments that American conservatives write about Muslims in the West. 

What is your response when you read those sorts of arguments? 

Are you serious? Is that your response? Do you have a gay family member or something and that's why you're acting like this? 

SubhanAllah, it looks like we have to stand up to the LGBT even in Shiachat against Shia Muslims. There is no safe haven until the return of the Imam of the Zaman (عليه السلام).

1 hour ago, SoRoUsH said:

If this is true, then you seriously need to grow up and face the fact of where you live and what's the world like around you. Not only you're ruining it for yourself, your rash actions may make things harder for other Muslims. 

There's no piety in being hard-headed, prideful, and rash. There's no piety in being oblivion. 

I suggest that you grow up and speak to people with respect as you try to correct them. Especially when they explicitly sought guidance and questioned if their actions were correct or not.

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Posted (edited)

@kadhim I don't think the issue here is homosexuality, rather it is the exclusive manner in which public institutions are promoting LGBT over everything else.

I wouldn't expect a college to allow black power posters or flags with the shahada written on them. Rather I would support their decision to disallow such things.

What people seem to forget is that not everyone has to endorse or agree with LGBT. We have the right to disagree and to distance ourselves from the movement, in the same way as any other ideology. 

I also disagree with yourself, @SoRoUsH and @Haji 2003 that the role of the muslim is to keep quiet. No, our role is to disassociate ourselves from such things. It goes without saying that this should be done in a dignified way (not by ripping down flags). 

Finally to everyone suggesting that the brother remain anonymous to protect his livelihood, again I disagree. We cannot give in to this form of blackmail that provides livelihood in exchange for endorsing things we do not believe in. 

Edited by Mahdavist
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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

I also disagree with yourself, @SoRoUsH and @Haji 2003 that the role of the muslim is to keep quiet. No, our role is to disassociate ourselves from such things. It goes without saying that this should be done in a dignified way (not by ripping down flags). 

Keeping quiet and being silent is a major virtue, especially, when due to being oblivion of reality, one can ruin the image and lives of oneself and other Muslims. 

We can dissociate ourselves through silence. Being silent, when everyone is so enthusiastic in supporting a sin is a statement in itself. 

Speaking out against such issues, in secular Western countries, when and where we cannot justify our position by pointing to our religion (or any religion), would only demonstrate our lack of capacity to read the room. 

There are times and places, where we can and should speak. Publicly, in secular societies, speaking out about such issues does nothing at all other than to stroke and serve our own egos. Superficial self-serving egoistic "piety". Grandstanding. Virtue-signaling to our fellow teammates.

Edited by SoRoUsH
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On 4/14/2022 at 9:45 PM, Guest ring said:

Are you serious? Is that your response? Do you have a gay family member or something and that's why you're acting like this? 

Deadly serious.

And what a perverse sort of question to ask. As if one can only have compassion and empathy for one’s own family. How far, far, far, from the spirit of this faith is such thinking. 

But now that you mention it, considering the number of Muslims in the world today,  and the percentage of gay people in the population in general, it would seem that I have something like 20-30 million gay brothers and sisters.

So I guess the answer in a way is yes :)

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Guest Psychological Warfare

Our Imam(عليه السلام) talked to others in their own language and according to their books. 

How do you apply this today>?

What is their language and what is their book?

Book of Nature and Science. On both they believe - so talk to them accordingly-

It is Unnatural, and (Science) the knowledge they have acquired does not support this activity. This goes against their Religion of the survival of the fittest, and Human evolution. This is de-evolution and an unnatural defect. This behavior will lead to extinction of human race. This is an evolutionary defect. 

How could a mind which only processes what it sees - procreation can be a victim of this thought process- This is a mental defect. 

End of story, don't bring in your religion they don't believe in it. They are not even following their own religion, ( Science). 

Everything is a facade, they don't believe in science or nature. They are driven by their desires. ( Period)

If their religion is desires, well they only care about their pleasure and no concern of the society - It is not even social oriented. Let;s not talk about humanity or human values any more. It is all a deflection. 

No bases for anything, no evidence at all- It is the religion of desires . Individual pleasure. 

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23 minutes ago, SoRoUsH said:

Keeping quiet and being silent is a major virtue

عَنْهُ عَنِ اَلْحَسَنِ بْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اَللَّهِ بْنِ سِنَانٍ عَنْ أَبِي حَمْزَةَ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ أَبَا جَعْفَرٍ عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ يَقُولُ: إِنَّمَا شِيعَتُنَا اَلْخُرْسُ . 

الکافي ج ۲، ص ۱۱۳

 

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى وَ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ عَنِ اَلْفَضْلِ بْنِ شَاذَانَ اَلنَّيْسَابُورِيِّ جَمِيعاً عَنْ صَفْوَانَ بْنِ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَبِي اَلْحَسَنِ اَلرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ قَالَ: إِنَّ مِنْ عَلاَمَاتِ اَلْفِقْهِ اَلْحِلْمَ وَ اَلصَّمْتَ .

الکافي ج ۱، ص ۳۶

 

مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ أَبِي نَصْرٍ قَالَ قَالَ أَبُو اَلْحَسَنِ اَلرِّضَا عَلَيْهِ اَلسَّلاَمُ : مِنْ عَلاَمَاتِ اَلْفِقْهِ اَلْحِلْمُ وَ اَلْعِلْمُ وَ اَلصَّمْتُ إِنَّ اَلصَّمْتَ بَابٌ مِنْ أَبْوَابِ اَلْحِكْمَةِ إِنَّ اَلصَّمْتَ يَكْسِبُ اَلْمَحَبَّةَ إِنَّهُ دَلِيلٌ عَلَى كُلِّ خَيْرٍ

الکافي ج ۲، ص ۱۱۳

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