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In the Name of God بسم الله

Muawiya and the Romans

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Interesting debate taking place amongst Saudis about Muawiya on Twitter. I'd not come across this angle before.

Anyone know the story? 

@realizm do you want to look at the thread and give more insight? Kinda hard working off Google translate.

Screenshot 2022-04-13 at 11.00.52.png

https://twitter.com/mohqasm/status/1514171064674406401

 

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Surely we have some people who know Arabic who can help. Just waiting for them to show up. 

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On 4/13/2022 at 2:32 PM, Haji 2003 said:

Interesting debate taking place amongst Saudis about Muawiya on Twitter. I'd not come across this angle before.

Anyone know the story? 

@realizm do you want to look at the thread and give more insight? Kinda hard working off Google translate.

Screenshot 2022-04-13 at 11.00.52.png

https://twitter.com/mohqasm/status/1514171064674406401

 

 

T.Hamed ترکی الحمد 

Also don't  say : Faith doesn't  become  great (prosperous) if you throw a collar over it's rules (twist religious rulings) , It became  near to Allah through  bloodshed of humans , under different  justifications  & grounds which Allah has not sent  down any authority , although  Allah has created these humans to know each other & build human  civilization .

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AlaskarAbdullhعبدالله العسکر : A faith doesn't  glorify  which people of superstition (myth) & Jinn & monsters & stories of of speaking  animals become  masters  in it & complain sight & joking real scientist  based on pillars of true Islam & doesn't  return it [to glory] except  a person who is caliph of Allah on earth to bring it to life  not his caliph for digging up  past for planting superstition (myth).

Thir part has true translation .

https://tanzil.net/#trans/en.qarai/53:23 (bolded part)

 

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Salam it's based on doctrine  of New-Salafism 

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Theology of the New-Salafism, like the traditional Salafism believes in a literal interpretation of the texts, it values practice and it has an affinity with technology. New-Salafists, comparing to the traditional Salafi movement, and Vahhabi Salafi, has a more conciliatory approach toward the Western world, women’s right and modernity. Besides, due to the attractive promises, plain literature, and no theological complexities, the New-Salafism has attracted so many Muslims and non-Muslims all around the world. In this study we will introduce Muhammad-ibn Abdul Rahman Al’ Arifi, one of the New-Salafi thinkers. We will examine his books and his influence among social media to investigate the relationship between the rhetoric and literature used in books of this contemporary New-Salafi thinker and his popularity in Islamic world, specifically. As for the lack of studies in this field, it was necessary to refer to the most of his translated books and to classify them according to subjects and their structure in order to get a more comprehensive look on the works and thoughts of this thinker. In this study, we have used heuristic method.

https://jpq.ut.ac.ir/article_78469.html

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Most of the common commentators  by restricting the concept of "issue rule  except  what Allah has not sent down" considered blasphemy  in it's jurispendence concept of It should be noted that Most of the Sunni commentators, considering the numerous interpretive narrations of the following verse; Both the opinions of the companions and the narrations of the causes of revelation have avoided presenting interpretations with a takfiri approach, but on the other hand ,The neo-Salafis, by abandoning the three interpretations which has been  accepted by the Sunnis in interpreting the concept of Allah has not sent  down any authority , emphasizing  on some examples of the concept of ruling, applying theological principles similar to Kharijite thought and relying on some of the views of the great Salafis believe in this radical interpretation. Which, of course, has no roots in the views and interpretive sources of the Sunnis.

http://ensani.ir/fa/article/416886/بررسی-آرا-مفسران-أهل-سنت-و-نوسلفیه-درباره-مفهوم-حکم-در-آیه-وَ-مَنْ-لَمْ-یَحْکُمْ-بِما-أَنْزَلَ-اللَّهُ-

 

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Faculty member of Imam Sadiq(عليه السلام)University

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Neo-Salafism and fundamentalism is a reaction that a rival wants a rival , which was first introduced as the West and modernity, but now, as ISIS explicitly states, the Shiites are its main enemy. Basically, there is this conflict between the Shiites and the traditional ones, and the issue of Syria and Yemen has increased this gap.

 

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The negative dimension of the emphasis on the book and tradition by the neo-Salafis is the denial of the interpretations and behaviors that have been done in the name of Islam and consensus in Islamic jurisprudence, and we have also witnessed it in Islamic theology, philosophy and history. ISIS has abandoned all interpretations and works done in Islamic civilization and does not consider them part of the tradition.
Hoshangi [Faculty member of Imam Sadiq(عليه السلام)University], stating that this negative aspect indicates that the issue of refinement and editing was fundamental for ISIS, said: "They wanted to refine the science of jurisprudence, principles, philosophy, theology, etc., which was attributed to Islam." ISIS opposes the inflation of jurisprudence and principles and seeks a kind of simplification of religion, and considers everything it believes in the book and tradition as superstition and heresy, and the sharp arrow of ISIL's attack is on Sufism and Shiism. Right now, ISIL is saying that  near enemy(Al-Adov al-Qarib العدو القریب) is Shiites and Kurds, and the West is distant enemy  (Al-Aduv al-Ba'id العدو البعید).

https://iqna.ir/fa/news/3455789/لزوم-برجسته‌سازی-تفاوت‌های-مسلمانان-با-نوسلفیان

https://www.pasokhkadeh.ir/22290/نوسلفیان-چه-دیدگاه-و-تفکری-دارند؟/

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This seems to be what's happened ...

it's a false story made up to improve the stature of Muawiya.

Source: https://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/PrintFatwa.php?lang=E&Id=337417

Fatwa Title

:

Story of Mu'aawiyah's letter to Byzantine Emperor

Fatwa No.

:

337417

Fatwa Date

:

14/01/2017

Question: 

Assalaamu alaykum, dear Scholars. What is the source of the quote below given that this quote is highly shared on social media blogs and social sites? Is the quote below found in any authentic books of the Sunnah, and what is its authenticity?Your assistance in the matter will be highly appreciated.

 

The quote goes as follows:

 

Ceasar of the Romans to Mu'awiyah: We know what occured between you and 'Ali (Ibn Abi Talib), and we see that you are more worthy of the Khalifah, so if you order me, I will send you an army that will bring you the head of 'Ali.

 

From Mu'awiyah to Heraql: Two brothers dispute and what is it to you to enter between them? If you are not silent, I will send you an army that starts with you and ends with me and that will bring me your head so I can gift it to 'Ali.

 

 

Fatwa: 

All perfect praise be to Allah, The Lord of the worlds. I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allah and that Muhammad, sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, is His slave and Messenger. 

 

After careful research, we could not find any basis for this report. It seems that it is one of the stories that are related in sermons and speeches without any chain of narration. However, among what historians recounted about Mu’aawiyah is what Ibn Katheer, may Allah have mercy upon him, mentioned in Al-Bidaayah wa An-Nihaayah:

 

"The Byzantine Emperor had great hopes of attacking and defeating Mu’aawiyah after the latter had instilled fear in him and humiliated him and vanquished his troops. When the Byzantine Emperor saw that Mu’aawiyah was preoccupied with fighting ‘Ali, he approached some cities (on the border) with a huge army, filled with hope of victory. So Mu’aawiyah wrote to him saying, 'By Allah, if you do not desist and go back to your land, O cursed one, I shall reconcile with my cousin and we will unite against you, and I shall certainly expel you from all of your land! I shall keep pursuing you, and the earth, vast as it is, will be straitened for you.' At that, the Byzantine Emperor was scared off and abandoned his plans; he sent word seeking a peace treaty."


 

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On 5/16/2022 at 2:15 AM, Haji 2003 said:

This seems to be what's happened ...

it's a false story made up to improve the stature of Muawiya.

Source: https://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/PrintFatwa.php?lang=E&Id=337417

Fatwa Title

:

Story of Mu'aawiyah's letter to Byzantine Emperor

Fatwa No.

:

337417

Fatwa Date

:

14/01/2017

Question: 

Assalaamu alaykum, dear Scholars. What is the source of the quote below given that this quote is highly shared on social media blogs and social sites? Is the quote below found in any authentic books of the Sunnah, and what is its authenticity?Your assistance in the matter will be highly appreciated.

 

The quote goes as follows:

 

Ceasar of the Romans to Mu'awiyah: We know what occured between you and 'Ali (Ibn Abi Talib), and we see that you are more worthy of the Khalifah, so if you order me, I will send you an army that will bring you the head of 'Ali.

 

From Mu'awiyah to Heraql: Two brothers dispute and what is it to you to enter between them? If you are not silent, I will send you an army that starts with you and ends with me and that will bring me your head so I can gift it to 'Ali.

 

 

Fatwa: 

All perfect praise be to Allah, The Lord of the worlds. I testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allah and that Muhammad, sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, is His slave and Messenger. 

 

After careful research, we could not find any basis for this report. It seems that it is one of the stories that are related in sermons and speeches without any chain of narration. However, among what historians recounted about Mu’aawiyah is what Ibn Katheer, may Allah have mercy upon him, mentioned in Al-Bidaayah wa An-Nihaayah:

 

"The Byzantine Emperor had great hopes of attacking and defeating Mu’aawiyah after the latter had instilled fear in him and humiliated him and vanquished his troops. When the Byzantine Emperor saw that Mu’aawiyah was preoccupied with fighting ‘Ali, he approached some cities (on the border) with a huge army, filled with hope of victory. So Mu’aawiyah wrote to him saying, 'By Allah, if you do not desist and go back to your land, O cursed one, I shall reconcile with my cousin and we will unite against you, and I shall certainly expel you from all of your land! I shall keep pursuing you, and the earth, vast as it is, will be straitened for you.' At that, the Byzantine Emperor was scared off and abandoned his plans; he sent word seeking a peace treaty."


 

I have read that it was Mu'awiya who sought treaty with Romans and paid a huge sum for this purpose.

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9 minutes ago, Borntowitnesstruth said:

I have read that it was Mu'awiya who sought treaty with Romans and paid a huge sum for this purpose.

Interesting. Any sources?

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3 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

Interesting. Any sources?

At the moment, I have only the name of Allama Nasir Abbas who said that he read Mauwiya had a peace treaty with Roman and pledged amount of 200,000 dinars and ship full of concubines. Having read the character of Mu'awiyah ibn Abu Sufyan, it does not seem far-fetched.

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Found an older shoachat thread on this:

This academic paper may be of interest about Umayyad treaties with the Byzantines:

http://www.ijssh.org/papers/186-G10009.pdf

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