Regime Change in Pakistan

[Cool]

How you see the regime change in Pakistan? Keeping in view how IK handle the whole situation and allegation of alleged foreign intervention in regime change.

[Guest ring]

If it wasn't any more obvious that the west is corrupt and manipulates the world....

One month he says we are not your slaves and we won't boycott Russia, the next he's gone.

Total coincidence right?

I really can't wait until Imam Mahdi humiliates these terrorist organizations on a global level.

[Dubilex]

Yeah, shows that America and the zionists are far worse than Russia could ever be. Imperialism and colonialism still lives on in the west.

And people in the west keep voting for these western leaders while they watch their netflix and eat themselves fat

[notme]

11 hours ago, Dubilex said:

And people in the west keep voting for these western leaders while they watch their netflix and eat themselves fat

They aren't offered any options. At least in the US, elections are a sham. A lot of the people who know don't vote (look at voter turnout), and most of the people who do vote are only trying to choose the lesser evil. Yes, Americans are ignorant, but they aren't as bad as their representatives might make you think.

[Cool]

I am not an admirer of USA but what I have seen is that the allegations of US intervention of regime change & the major political parties like PPP & PMLN being the agents of US & traitors, doesn't carry weight. 

First of all, USA is fully aware that foreign office of Pakistan has no control over regime in Pakistan, they are well aware that the power resides with the military so instead of threatening the Pak Army, it is alleged that they have threatened the Pakistani Ambassador to US, which is illogical and a non-sense. 

Secondly, It was the PPP government which initiated the CEPAC, it was the PPP government which made the deal with Iran for Pak-Iran gas pipeline despite strong opposition by the US. Although US successfully halted the advance on gas pipeline project during the regime of PMLN with the help of its Arab allies like Saudi Arabia & Qatar, but US is failed to halt advance on CEPAC although they have used serval tactics to halt the project. 

So I personally don't think that there is a foreign intervention in regime change. All the political parties have made the alliance back in 2020 and there was dispute between them on the no-confidence motion. PMLN wanted to submit resignations from the seats of National Assembly while PPP wanted to bring no-confidence motion against regime in the National Assembly. Now when they agreed on the no-confidence motion and they have gained enough support to oust the government Imran Khan used this card which seems nothing but a false allegation. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Cool

[Ashvazdanghe]

Salam @Cool , I totally  disagree with you because  Imran  Khan has been ousted by a pro American  party which their two leaders Shahbaz Sharif & Shah Mahmoud Qureishi are infamous  puppets  of America .

Quote

If Shahbaz Sharif takes over, they will do slavery of America, says Imran Khan ahead of no-confidence vote
Read more At: 

 

 

 

https://www.aninews.in/news/world/asia/if-shahbaz-sharif-takes-over-they-will-do-slavery-of-america-says-imran-khan-ahead-of-no-confidence-vote20220402203708/

https://www.lokmattimes.com/international/if-shahbaz-sharif-takes-over-they-will-do-slavery-of-america-says-imran-khan-ahead-of-no-confidence/

 

Quote

He was elected to the National Assembly in 1990. However, after the military coup of 1999, both Shehbaz and Nawaz had to spent several years in exile in Saudi Arabia. Like his elder brother, Shehbaz Sharif has also been accused of corruption.

Man of Action and an "Old Friend" of China

According to a Reuters report, he is known for his “can-do” administrative style and he also enjoys friendly relations with Pakistan's military which controls the defence and external affairs portfolios.

During his three terms as Chief Minister of Pakistan's Punjab province, he has worked closely with China on Beijing-funded developmental projects under the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) initiative and on certain occasions even drawn praises from Chinese officials for being a man of action.

Outgoing Chinese consul general Long Dingbin was reported to have called Sharif a "an old friend of China" while China Vice-Minister Zheng Xiaosong gave Punjab Chief Minister Shehbaz Sharif the title of ‘Shehbaz Speed’ for completing projects before schedule.

https://www.thequint.com/news/world/who-is-shahbaz-sharif-the-man-who-is-likely-to-pick-up-the-reins-in-pakistan#read-more

[Shiawarrior313]

Looks like people are atleast pouring into the streets. Let's see if they have what it takes to overt turn this. 

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2022/04/10/stop-the-steal-50-million-hit-the-streets-to-stop-the-us-coup-against-imran-khan/

 

[Dubilex]

14 hours ago, notme said:

They aren't offered any options. At least in the US, elections are a sham. A lot of the people who know don't vote (look at voter turnout), and most of the people who do vote are only trying to choose the lesser evil. Yes, Americans are ignorant, but they aren't as bad as their representatives might make you think.

Depends on what kind of Americans we're talking about. We certainly have common ground with the rural and religious americans. We have similar values and most Trump supporters also oppose american imperialism.

Our true enemies are the woke urban population of the US, the liberals and lefties who wants to groom and sexualize children and claim that there are 50 genders

[Cool]

32 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

I totally  disagree with you because  Imran  Khan has been ousted by a pro American  party which their two leaders Shahbaz Sharif & Shah Mahmoud Qureishi are infamous  puppets  of America

Alaikas-Salam Brother!!

I respect your right of disagreement but it seems that you are not viewing the case properly. 

First let me correct the bolded figure, it was not Shah Mehmood Qureshi, he was the foreign minister and is a vice chairman of PTI, right hand of Imran Khan, perhaps you want to point out Nawaz Sharif or Asif Zardari here. 

So lets assume that Sharif brothers are puppets of USA, there are approximately 7 different parties involved in the coalition which has ousted the PTI regime and then there are approximately 20 PTI members supported the opposition. Opposition was needed 172 votes for no-confidence to succeed, they actually had 197 votes. So how come all the parties including those who remained allies of PTI regime for 3.5 years becomes puppets of USA? Those includes MQM of Karachi and BAP of Balochistan, few independent MNA's. 

And if you say that PPP, PMLN, JUI, MQM, BAP and 20PTI  members, 5 independent members were puppets of USA then it would mean 70% Pakistan is the puppet of USA and only Imran Khan left. This analysis itself doesn't hold the weight brother.

[Cool]

Imran Khan actually denied the right of members of National Assembly to move no-confidence motion against him. He ordered the speaker of NA to reject the no confidence motion. This act is violation of constitution of Pakistan. Hence Supreme Court reversed the actions of speaker NA and revived the right of no confidence, given in the constitution. 

Surprising thing is that Imran Khan himself dissolved the National Assembly (his decision too was reversed by the supreme court) and wanted an election within 3 months. 

Now the same opposition which is forming the government, agreed to hold general elections as soon as possible. So where is the US involvement if both the parties are ready for general elections?  

[Ashvazdanghe]

4 minutes ago, Cool said:

So lets assume that Sharif brothers are puppets of USA, there are approximately 7 different parties involved in the coalition which has ousted the PTI regime and then there are approximately 20 PTI members supported the opposition. Opposition was needed 172 votes for no-confidence to succeed, they actually had 197 votes. So how come all the parties including those who remained allies of PTI regime for 3.5 years becomes puppets of USA? Those includes MQM of Karachi and BAP of Balochistan, few independent MNA's. 

I have talked about leaders of opposition  which names of two person has been more mentioned which allegiance  of any party is temporary  & varies time to time which now in opposition  of Imran Khan pro American parties & personalities  have majority which until now all of them have been united against  Imran  Khan by support of America which as usual after Imran Khan America  will turn them against  each other by giving unfair shares of power to any party which all of them separately will ask association  of America just for their party which will lead to never ending conflict  between them & total dependance to America .

[Cool]

@Ashvazdanghe, brother do you know Imran Khan is also a puppet of America rather he is a puppet of Jewish people? He was against CEPAC, trying to halt the CEPAC  program. The Pakistan Army which supported him and helped him to form the Government, helped him several occasions by failing the opposition plans of no confidence in Senate, stopped supporting him because of his actions against CEPAC. 

Now it seems that the mission of Imran Khan is to create chaos in Pakistan. There was chants against Pakistan Army during the yesterday's protests by his supporters. His social media cell is spreading fake news of drone strike in KPK province and his supporters are directly cursing and criticizing the tweets of Army spokes person. 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Cool

[Ashvazdanghe]

14 minutes ago, Cool said:

brother do you know Imran Khan is also a puppet of America rather he is a puppet of Jewish people? He was against CEPAC, trying to halt the CEPAC  program. The Pakistan Army which supported him and helped him to form the Government, helped him several occasions by failing the opposition plans of no confidence in Senate, stopped supporting him because of his actions against CEPAC. 

Being against  china doesn't  mean that a person is puppet of America nevertheless he has had a soft policy about KSA & America which he tried to be neutral about them anyway I agree that he has made mistakes & somehow relied on America which he understood his mistake too late just in recent days.

Abot news I can't juge now because  I just have followed political news about Imran Khan.

[Haji 2003]

Funny (but expected) BBC coverage

Quote

He tweeted that the crowds seen were some of the largest in Pakistan's history - a claim that has not been not independently verified.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-61063386

Not independently verified?

They look pretty enormous from the videos.

I don't really follow Pakistani politics enough to have a view. But if this is the BBC stance and since in such situations the truth is usually the opposite to what the BBC says - I'd tend to support Khan

[Cool]

Ok, so we have different analysis. I think it will be better to allow some time now so that the situation becomes clear to everyone. 

[Northwest]

2 hours ago, Cool said:

@Ashvazdanghe, brother do you know Imran Khan is also a puppet of America rather he is a puppet of Jewish people? He was against CEPAC, trying to halt the CEPAC  program. The Pakistan Army which supported him and helped him to form the Government, helped him several occasions by failing the opposition plans of no confidence in Senate, stopped supporting him because of his actions against CEPAC.

@Cool

Do you have any sources for this? The sources that I see indicate that Imran Khan supported CPEC more than his opponents did.

[Cool]

21 hours ago, Northwest said:

@Cool

Do you have any sources for this? The sources that I see indicate that Imran Khan supported CPEC more than his opponents did.

Yes, it was very famous that IK raised objections on CEPAC when he was in opposition. After become Prime Minister he tried several times to delay the release of funds to Chinese Companies on which China become angry with him. When he saw strong support of Pak Army for CEPAC, he then changed his mind. 

You can get the idea from what China has said when congratulating Shehbaz Sharif:

"Beijing: Chinese official media on Sunday sounded upbeat about the prospects of Shehbaz Sharif becoming the new prime minister following the ouster of Imran Khan, saying all-weather ties between China and Pakistan “could be better than under Khan”.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.firstpost.com/world/shehbaz-sharif-better-for-china-pak-ties-than-imran-khan-says-chinese-official-media-10540421.html/amp

“Khan is from a newly rising political party…, and when traditional major political parties like the Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz) or the Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) return to power, China-Pakistan cooperation could be even better because these traditional major parties have much closer and deeper ties with China,” Qian told the daily."

And this is 100% true. PPP and PMLN have strong ties with China. 

"Pakistan Crisis: The China with whom Imran Khan increased the most closeness during his tenure, today the same China is expressing happiness on Imran Khan’s departure from power. In fact, Chinese state media on Sunday expressed happiness over the prospects of Shahbaz Sharif becoming the new prime minister after Imran Khan’s removal from power, saying that now the relations between China and Pakistan can be better than during Khan’s rule."

https://www.edules.com/2022/04/11/china-happy-on-shahbaz-sharif-becoming-pm-said-better-than-imran-for-sino-pak-relations/

Edited April 12, 2022 by Cool

[iCenozoic]

I've thought this for awhile, there should be an "informative" emoji, so that more than simply agreeing or liking, you can acknowledge the quality of information of the post^.

People have always given American government way too much "credit" for doing things that it could never do or controlling things that it could never control. Especially over middle east politics. An asteroid could fly in from outer space and hit Pakistan and the politicians there would find a way to blame the CIA.

Edited April 13, 2022 by iCenozoic

[Haji 2003]

54 minutes ago, iCenozoic said:

you can acknowledge the quality of information of the post^.

That's what the thanks button does, I think.

[Haji 2003]

An ex-British Ambassador tweets

 

[Haji 2003]

An ex-American Ambassador (to Afghanistan) tweets

 

[Irfani313]

“O you who believe! If a Faasiq (evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it, lest you should harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done” [al-Hujuraat 49:6]

This Zalmay …. need no introduction. 
 

I would be very very worried about peace in West Asia though since he lately seems to be commenting a lot on Pakistan and so far wherever he sets his eyes on, he takes with him wars, weapons, death, destruction, and overall fitna. 

[Guest Window]

On 4/11/2022 at 12:15 AM, Dubilex said:

Depends on what kind of Americans we're talking about. We certainly have common ground with the rural and religious americans. We have similar values and most Trump supporters also oppose american imperialism.

Our true enemies are the woke urban population of the US, the liberals and lefties who wants to groom and sexualize children and claim that there are 50 genders

I agree that the enemy is the “Woke Far Left”. 

For instance, the right has never looked at me as my race and my mild CP. The Woke Left saw my mild CP, labeled me as disabled (mentally, physically, when I’m clearly not), and told me to teach Special Ed. I’ve never been in Special Ed. I don’t want to teach Special Ed. I’m not disabled. I’ve never needed disability in my life. But these Woke Leftists view me as permanently mentally and physically disabled just because I limp slightly in my right leg when I walk. It’s not even *that* noticeable. No one can tell I have CP unless I tell them. 
 

But to these Woke Leftists, I’m a moron just because I have mild CP. 

[Cool]

2 hours ago, Irfani313 said:

This Zalmay …. need no introduction. 

Agreed!

But I have seen a report where some 60 US Senators have signed a letter written to Biden. 

[Eddie Mecca]

'Pakistani Army May Split In Half Over Turmoil Surrounding Imran Khan' Independent Islamic Republic (4 min) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cltvR9S0BMc

Edited May 20 by Eddie Mecca

[Sabrejet]

6 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

'Pakistani Army May Split In Half Over Turmoil Surrounding Imran Khan' Independent Islamic Republic (4 min) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cltvR9S0BMc

The Pakistani Army is way too disciplined and organized to split in half.

Hopefully, though, they will change their stance over meddling in the politics of Pakistan and imposing their will, something they have been doing since 1947. They have finally seen that they don't have the support of the people anymore. They have already lost a lot of ground since 2007.

No single individual or institute has the right to forcefully impose their will on a reluctant people.

[Cool]

5 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

Pakistani Army May Split In Half

Apparently, this seems to be the target of IK. He desperately trying to create a split among the senior generals. He is now exposed.

Once accusing USA for removal of his Government, now begging the US for helping him. 

6 hours ago, Eddie Mecca said:

4 min) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cltvR9S0BMc

This video mentions the current prime minister as "unelected".

That is incorrect because he was an elected member of national assembly and after the successful no confidence motion against IK, the same national assembly elected Shehbaz Shareef as prime minister. 

So the "touheed parast" Imran Khan who chants in his public gatherings "اياك نعبد و اياك نستعين" now begging American Administration for help. 

The way PTI launched attacks on military installations & government offices, is the sole reason for actions against him & his party. IK appeared as a most stupid political figure in Pakistani politics. His slogan "haqeeqi aazadi" (real independence) means to get rid of military involvement in the decision making on sensitive matters related to foreign policy, defence and internal affairs. He thought that by launching attack on military, he will be able to achieve his targets but it was unfortunate for him that Army never opened fire on the protestors. So the dead bodies IK was seeking through this attack, was not achieved and his plan backfires. Now he is on the defence and Army is on the offensive against these enemies of state. 

Personally, I think that IK after securing such massive public support, only needed to wait patiently for elections. He would get  two third majority in elections easily and then he can limit the Army's involvement in political matters by doing effective legislations from national assembly. 

But now, it is not likely that he would even secure enough seats to form a government. Many of his senior party workers have left him in this week and a large numbers will follow them in up coming days, hence would leave IK & his party in despair..

 

[Sabrejet]

5 minutes ago, Cool said:

But now, it is not likely that he would even secure enough seats to form a government. Many of his senior party workers have left him in this week and a large numbers will follow them in up coming days, hence would leave IK & his party in despair

The way things are going, it won't matter too much how many people leave his party. The average citizen will likely vote for the bat sign, regardless of who is behind it.

The ruling coalition right now knows this, which is why they violated the constitution and refused to conduct elections in two provinces. Holding them means losing power and they know it. If they thought otherwise, they would probably hold elections without a second thought.

If they had been patient and let Imran Khan complete his tenure, he would have been finished. People had had enough of him. However, they conducted a series of political blunders and caused him to become more popular than ever.

The Pak Defence forums used to be among the biggest "Pak Fauj Zindabad" public forums out there, and even the people over there are cursing the Establishment. The ones in power now might be "elected", but they can't even pretend to have the mandate of the people anymore.

[Cool]

29 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

The ruling coalition right now knows this,

Yes brother, everyone knows this, even the IK. 

30 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

which is why they violated the constitution and refused to conduct elections in two provinces.

Actually the decision to dissolve the two provincial governments was a foolish decision of IK. 

The reservation of Sind & Baluchistan are correct, the elections should be held in same day throughout the country otherwise no one will accept the electoral results. 

36 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

If they had been patient and let Imran Khan complete his tenure, he would have been finished. People had had enough of him.

Brother do you forgot that the allies of IK left him. That paved the way of no confidence motion against him. Once ousted constitutionally, there is no need of not accepting the national assembly and chanting imported government and then start fighting with the Army.

So it would be good for IK to wait patiently for elections. A 1.5 years tenure of PDM government is nothing. 

[Eddie Mecca]

'Why They Want To Get Rid Of Imran Khan' Richard Medhurst (25 min)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zscxacfb4Dg

[Shaheed786]

Pakistan is, at its core, a military state. Imran Khan was tolerated and even supported initially by the military establishment. When they soured on him, he had to go. It's not that complicated. You can talk about foreign meddling all you want, but this is the fundamental reality of Pakistan. Until it transforms itself and transcends military rule (like what Turkey has done in the Erdogan era), this will continue to be the familiar pattern with regards to its elected leaders.... 

The people who suffer the most are ordinary Pakistanis. Instead of spending more investing in education, healthcare, and infrastructure, the generals make sure to devote an unsustainable amount of the budget to maintain its massive military, in order to maintain military parity with India. Meanwhile, they go begging every so often to the IMF and never reform their economy. This military regime has bankrupted the country economically and spiritually. 

[Dubilex]

On 5/21/2023 at 3:25 PM, Shaheed786 said:

Pakistan is, at its core, a military state. Imran Khan was tolerated and even supported initially by the military establishment. When they soured on him, he had to go. It's not that complicated. You can talk about foreign meddling all you want, but this is the fundamental reality of Pakistan. Until it transforms itself and transcends military rule (like what Turkey has done in the Erdogan era), this will continue to be the familiar pattern with regards to its elected leaders.... 

The people who suffer the most are ordinary Pakistanis. Instead of spending more investing in education, healthcare, and infrastructure, the generals make sure to devote an unsustainable amount of the budget to maintain its massive military, in order to maintain military parity with India. Meanwhile, they go begging every so often to the IMF and never reform their economy. This military regime has bankrupted the country economically and spiritually. 

I heard a joke once saying that every country has an army. Pakistan is the only army in the world that has a country