sunni tashayu'

[abuyusufalshafii]

As salamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

I've been a sunni muslim most of my life but in recent years I've been very fascinated with the Shiite Imams and wanted to learn more about them.  I know of certain shuyukh amongst the sunni's such as Shaykh Hasan 'Ali Saqqaf who are known to have shiite leanings or tendencies.

I did some research online for years and was hoping you could comment on and elaborate on the following observations:

 

sunni tashayu’

the first imam of the shia who founded the imamate was imam `ali zayn al ‘abidin

imam ali zayn al ‘abidin was selected after the martyrdom of al husayn at karbala by the shi’a ‘ali

taqiya was a later heresy

the shia ‘ali were a rival dynasty of the umayyid and abbasid dynasties

imam ja’far was infallible and the other imams had a minimal margin of error

once imam ja’far was accused of using religious teachings to become wealthy and in his respose he commented on just about every type of knowledge that existed many topics of which he could become rich due to his knowledge of and he proved his sincerity and that teaching religion is a far less lucrative field thus proving their accusation false

an early sunni supporter of the shia ‘ali was the great imam abu hanifa who supported several shia rebellions

in order to make light of the then caliphs desire to kill Imam Ja’fars successor he listed as his successor the caliph’s governor and several others the caliph didn’t wish to kill as his successors thus foiling the caliph and governors plans to expend the next imam

his three sons were imam isma’il who predeceased him, imam musa al kadhim who was the choice of the imami shi’as and his other son abd allah al aftah

hadiths about the Mahdi – this grandson of mine will be a sayyid (al hussain)

al mahdi will be from the descendants of fatima – ibn kathir

he will die at 40 years old (first Mahdi not certain about second) – al suyuti

he will descend with gabriel and michael at his sides – al suyuti

he will die doing what he found comfort in – al suyuti

he will bring justice to the world while it was previously filled with darkness and oppression ibn kathir

he will do this for seven years – ibn kathir

he will have a mole on his right cheak - shia hadith

he will have a head like an ‘arab and a body like an Israelite – shia hadith

it was the shia ‘ali (imami’s) who founded the jami’a al azhar al sharif in cairo, egypt and the shia ‘ali (zaydi’s) who founded the jami’a al qarawiyyin in fez, Morocco

 

I had a few narrations that i would appreciate commentary on: that the rasul said to khalid ibn al walid "la tasubb ashabi" even though most sunni's consider khalid ibn al walid a sahabi himself. also that sa'id ibn al mussayyab considered that in order to \be a sahabi one had to have known the rasul at least a couple of years and fought in at least a couple of battles with him. Also that those who accepted islam bedfore the fath of makka were not of the same rank as those who did so after . And could someone please tell me about the narrations that mu'awiya bribed al Hasans wife to poison him so he could break his vow with al Hasan and choose Yazid as his successor. I also was interest in finding out about sunni's with light tashayu' which was my biggest intersest with starting this thread and i found an article online that i seem to have lost that said there were early hadith narrators that ahl al sunnah wal jama'a accapted with light tashayu who beleived 'ali had more right to the caliphate than 'uthman and who believed he was fully right in hist debate with mu'awaiya and who respected abu bakr and umar

 

The reason Mu’awiya was not a khalifa Rashida was because he ruled as a king not a khalifa.  He was clearly outwardly a sinner and Allah knows best maybe worse inwardly

 

Min akhikum fil islami Abu Yusuf

ma'as salama

[Panzerwaffe]

Sai’d b Mu’sayyib definition of Sahabi is wrong and very biased in favor of Quraish 

best definition of sahabi is of ibn Hajar asqalani

Believed in God/ prophet

saw the prophet 

died as a Muslim 

and THATS IT !

What you call “ Sunni tashyu” was the belief of most supporters of Ali / hasan / Hussain during their lifetime (and God knows best) with time stance of Sunnis and later Shias changed wrt all major historical figures esp uthman Ali Aisha muawiyah etc

look up some videos of shaykh yAhya ninowy for starters 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Panzerwaffe

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 4/2/2022 at 6:04 AM, abuyusufalshafii said:

the first imam of the shia who founded the imamate was imam `ali zayn al ‘abidin

imam ali zayn al ‘abidin was selected after the martyrdom of al husayn at karbala by the shi’a ‘ali

taqiya was a later heresy

the shia ‘ali were a rival dynasty of the umayyid and abbasid dynasties

imam ja’far was infallible and the other imams had a minimal margin of error

once imam ja’far was accused of using religious teachings to become wealthy and in his respose he commented on just about every type of knowledge that existed many topics of which he could become rich due to his knowledge of and he proved his sincerity and that teaching religion is a far less lucrative field thus proving their accusation false

an early sunni supporter of the shia ‘ali was the great imam abu hanifa who supported several shia rebellions

in order to make light of the then caliphs desire to kill Imam Ja’fars successor he listed as his successor the caliph’s governor and several others the caliph didn’t wish to kill as his successors thus foiling the caliph and governors plans to expend the next imam

his three sons were imam isma’il who predeceased him, imam musa al kadhim who was the choice of the imami shi’as and his other son abd allah al aftah

hadiths about the Mahdi – this grandson of mine will be a sayyid (al hussain)

al mahdi will be from the descendants of fatima – ibn kathir

he will die at 40 years old (first Mahdi not certain about second) – al suyuti

he will descend with gabriel and michael at his sides – al suyuti

he will die doing what he found comfort in – al suyuti

he will bring justice to the world while it was previously filled with darkness and oppression ibn kathir

he will do this for seven years – ibn kathir

he will have a mole on his right cheak - shia hadith

he will have a head like an ‘arab and a body like an Israelite – shia hadith

it was the shia ‘ali (imami’s) who founded the jami’a al azhar al sharif in cairo, egypt and the shia ‘ali (zaydi’s) who founded the jami’a al qarawiyyin in fez, Morocco

Salam

concept of Imamate has introduced  & founded by prophet Muhammad (pbu) in Ghadeer Khum by command of Allah.

Taqiya has been practiced since time of prophet Muhammad (pbu)by companion Ammar ibn Yasir(رضي الله عنه) which prophet  himself verified  it which it has been mentioned in Sunni narrations  too.

During Umayyid era the shia ‘ali  has been just an opposition  party which during Abbasid  era Zaydis (Buyid dynasty) & Ismailis (Fatimid dynasty ) have had limited rivalry  with Abbasid dynasty.

All Shia Imams from Amir al Mumini Imam Ali (عليه السلام) to 12th Imam have been  infallible  which 12th Imam is last alive infallible  Imam .

All Imams have had financial  activity also they have received  great amount of financial support  through Khums which they have spending all of their wealth & income for poor people  in Shia community which because  of it still wahabist are against  receiving  Khums by shia Marjas because  Marjas are using it for wellbeing  of poor people  in Shia community  in similar fashion of Shia Imams .

Abu hanifa  has supported  Zayd ibn Ali(رضي الله عنه) & Nafs Zakyia anyway in crucial time he has not supported  them which his betrayal  has lead to defeat of Zayd ibn Ali(رضي الله عنه).

Imam Jafar Sadiq(عليه السلام) also appointed  Abbasid caliph as his successor about his wealth & family besides of next Imam the Imam Kadhim (عليه السلام) which because  Abbasid  king previously  has ordered to his governor  to kill all of successors  of Imam when he announced as one of successors so therefore he forced to nulify his command .

Imam Musa Kadhim(عليه السلام) has introduced  as Imam by prophet Muhammad (pbu) by command  of Allah which Ismail (رضي الله عنه) has no claim  about Imamate which after his death some people  by support of Abbasid king has announced him as Imam which abd allah al aftah has claimed  himself as Imam in similar fashion but he has not shown any qualification  for being Imam also failed in famous challenge  which well known  trustworthy  & knowledgeable  Shias have asked questions  from him which only right Imam  could answer questions  which he couldn't  respond to any question so there it's  became  clear he has not been Imam.

Imam Mahdi (aj) is from descendants  of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام) also he is a descendant  of lady Fatima(sa) in similar fashion of other infallible  Imams  after Imam Hussain (عليه السلام).

Imam Mahdi (aj) will reappear  as a 40 years old person which only Allah know time of his death both of Sunnis & Shias have agreement  on that "he will  bring justice to the world while it was previously filled with darkness and oppression " and injustice.

Quote

Author of ‘Iqd al-Durar narrates in the third chapter from ‘Ali ((عليه السلام).) in describing the Mahdi:
“He is a man with a wide and clear forehead, aquiline nose and broad thighs. He has a mole on his right cheek and sparkling teeth.3

Commentary of Nahj al-Balagha, Ibn Abi al-Hadid, vol. 1, pg. 93, narrating from Qaḍi al-Quḍāt and Ibn Qutayba.

https://www.al-islam.org/al-mahdi-sayyid-sadruddin-sadr/chapter-3

How long will the Imam of Time, Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام), will this world rule after he reappears?

A) Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) said: The Riser (Qaim) of the Family of Muhammad (S) will rule for seven years. The days and nights during Mahdi”s time will be so lengthy that one year of that time will be like ten years of today and (seven) years of Mahdi will be equal to seventy years of your reckoning.[4]

Quote

There are two categories of narrations in this regard which are apparently varied giving differing reports:
1.  The first category of narrations has, for the major part, been extracted from Sunni sources.[1] According to it, the period during which the Imam of Time, Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام), will rule the world has been reported differently. For instance, according to some reports, he will rule the world for twenty years while based on some other reports he will rule for thirty or forty years.

The second category of narrations has been cited from Shia sources according to which the duration of the government of Imam Mahdi (عليه السلام) has been reported to be seventy years.

 

Quote

A) Huzaifa narrates from the Holy Prophet (S) that he said: "Al Mahdi is a man from my children. His face is like a glittering star, his skin is the color of an Arab, and his body is like that of Israel.  He will fill the earth with justice just as it will have been filled by injustice, and the dwellers of Heaven and Earth and even the birds will be pleased with his Caliphate. He will rule for twenty years."[2]

B) The Prophet (S) said: "Mahdi (عليه السلام) will rule for thirty or forty years."[3]

https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/en21969

Al azhar al sharif in cairo ,Egypt has been founded by Shia Fatimid dynasty according  to name of beloved  daughter of prophet  Muhammad  (pbu) Faima al Zahra (sa) 

Jami’a al qarawiyyin in fez, Morocco has been founded by lady Fatima bint Muhammad Alfahri as a mosque which I have not found out about her creed nevertheless for a period of time Morocco has had shia rulers wich they have had helped in promotion  of it as oldest university  in world  which until now it's scholars  have had  good relations  with Shia scholars  & educational shia  centers.

https://binesh.cc/archive/1033

https://abadis.ir/fatofa/فاطمه-فهری/

https://www.holamon.cat/fa/danshgah-qrwyyn

https://wikivahdat.com/fa/دانشگاه_قرویین

https://hawzah.net/fa/Magazine/View/4473/4480/34649/دانشگاه-قرویین-"مراکش"

https://www.eligasht.com/Blog/tourism/دانشگاه-قرویین-مراکش/

for more information you can visit https://www.al-islam.org/ also I recommend  you to read books of Muhammad al-Tijani al-Samawi 

https://www.al-islam.org/person/muhammad-al-tijani-al-samawi

 

[abuyusufalshafii]

Shukran jazilan for the responses.

@Ashvazdanghe To Ashvazdanghe thanks a lot, you gave me exactly what I've been seeking for a long time as most of my post was sloppy and uncertain and needed the clarification you gave me.   I'll have to re-read that profusely.  Jazakullah khair to Panzerwaffe too. @Panzerwaffe

ma'as salama

[علوي]

Salam,

I would highly recommend this lecture series by Sayed Ammar Nakshawani. It is the first series of lectures that I've ever watched and it introduced me to the beliefs of Shia Islam. Here's the link to the playlist, have a look if you like:

May Allah bless, forgive, protect, guide, and help you all and your families and may He grant you all Jannat Al-Firdaus.

Ma3salam.

[abuyusufalshafii]

Shukran for the videos.  I will make sure to check them out.

I've been watching a whole bunch of videos from Ahl al Bayt Documentaries also but I definitely need these bigographies.

ma'as salama

 

[Borntowitnesstruth]

On 4/2/2022 at 6:34 AM, abuyusufalshafii said:

As salamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

I've been a sunni muslim most of my life but in recent years I've been very fascinated with the Shiite Imams and wanted to learn more about them.  I know of certain shuyukh amongst the sunni's such as Shaykh Hasan 'Ali Saqqaf who are known to have shiite leanings or tendencies.

I did some research online for years and was hoping you could comment on and elaborate on the following observations:

 

sunni tashayu’

the first imam of the shia who founded the imamate was imam `ali zayn al ‘abidin

imam ali zayn al ‘abidin was selected after the martyrdom of al husayn at karbala by the shi’a ‘ali

taqiya was a later heresy

the shia ‘ali were a rival dynasty of the umayyid and abbasid dynasties

imam ja’far was infallible and the other imams had a minimal margin of error

once imam ja’far was accused of using religious teachings to become wealthy and in his respose he commented on just about every type of knowledge that existed many topics of which he could become rich due to his knowledge of and he proved his sincerity and that teaching religion is a far less lucrative field thus proving their accusation false

an early sunni supporter of the shia ‘ali was the great imam abu hanifa who supported several shia rebellions

in order to make light of the then caliphs desire to kill Imam Ja’fars successor he listed as his successor the caliph’s governor and several others the caliph didn’t wish to kill as his successors thus foiling the caliph and governors plans to expend the next imam

his three sons were imam isma’il who predeceased him, imam musa al kadhim who was the choice of the imami shi’as and his other son abd allah al aftah

hadiths about the Mahdi – this grandson of mine will be a sayyid (al hussain)

al mahdi will be from the descendants of fatima – ibn kathir

he will die at 40 years old (first Mahdi not certain about second) – al suyuti

he will descend with gabriel and michael at his sides – al suyuti

he will die doing what he found comfort in – al suyuti

he will bring justice to the world while it was previously filled with darkness and oppression ibn kathir

he will do this for seven years – ibn kathir

he will have a mole on his right cheak - shia hadith

he will have a head like an ‘arab and a body like an Israelite – shia hadith

it was the shia ‘ali (imami’s) who founded the jami’a al azhar al sharif in cairo, egypt and the shia ‘ali (zaydi’s) who founded the jami’a al qarawiyyin in fez, Morocco

 

I had a few narrations that i would appreciate commentary on: that the rasul said to khalid ibn al walid "la tasubb ashabi" even though most sunni's consider khalid ibn al walid a sahabi himself. also that sa'id ibn al mussayyab considered that in order to \be a sahabi one had to have known the rasul at least a couple of years and fought in at least a couple of battles with him. Also that those who accepted islam bedfore the fath of makka were not of the same rank as those who did so after . And could someone please tell me about the narrations that mu'awiya bribed al Hasans wife to poison him so he could break his vow with al Hasan and choose Yazid as his successor. I also was interest in finding out about sunni's with light tashayu' which was my biggest intersest with starting this thread and i found an article online that i seem to have lost that said there were early hadith narrators that ahl al sunnah wal jama'a accapted with light tashayu who beleived 'ali had more right to the caliphate than 'uthman and who believed he was fully right in hist debate with mu'awaiya and who respected abu bakr and umar

 

The reason Mu’awiya was not a khalifa Rashida was because he ruled as a king not a khalifa.  He was clearly outwardly a sinner and Allah knows best maybe worse inwardly

 

Min akhikum fil islami Abu Yusuf

ma'as salama

The imamate or Caliphate was established by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) through Prophet Muhammad (PBUHHP) through a quote in which he (PBUHHP) said: "There will be twelve caliphs after me" (Sahih Bukhari) 

First Imam was Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib (عليه السلام).

Taqaya is a practice used by Prophet Ibrahim (عليه السلام) in Quran, it is used to conceal faith for specific reason which must be virtuous one.

Shia of Ali were known from the time of Hazrat Abu bakar, they refused to acknowledge the caliphate of Hazrat Abu Bakar and acknowledged the vicegerency of Imam Ali (عليه السلام).

All Imams including imam jafar al sadiq (عليه السلام) are infallible Imams. They do not err.

Imam Abu Hanifa initially supported Hazrat Zayd ibn Ali but later on withdrew from such support. The sign of His withdrawal was that his own disciple become chief judge of the then government as a prize for withdrawal.

Imam al Mahdi (عليه السلام) is the twelfth imam and grandson of Imam Hussain (عليه السلام).

Hazrat Esa (عليه السلام) will descend from skies during the time of Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام). it is said that he (عليه السلام) will die at the age of 40 after having been married. 

Imam Mehdi (عليه السلام) will rule for 7 years but each year will be as long as ten years. 

Muawiya bribed the woman who was in Nikah of Imam Hasan (عليه السلام) to poison imam.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Borntowitnesstruth