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In the Name of God بسم الله

If a person violates the Wailyat of Ali are they considerd aposate and hell

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If Some one takes the Shia third Shahadah(Wailiyat)And breaks it reverts to another sect, are they considerd an apostate,heratic, or going to hell. If they convert to another sect like Sunni, re they considered with the enemies of Ahlulbayat?

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I have never heard of a third Shahadah.  As far as I know, there is only one Shahada.  Seems like anything else would have to have been fabricated well after the completion of Islamic revelations, and thus has no bearing on someone being Muslim or not. 

I also don't see how the Sunnis are the enemies of the Ahlulbayat... 

We need to stop viewing Sunnis as the enemy, and they need to stop viewing us as the enemy.  Just focus on being better people and living in the example of the prophet.

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1 hour ago, Lion of Shia said:

If Some one takes the Shia third Shahadah(Wailiyat)And breaks it reverts to another sect, are they considerd an apostate,heratic, or going to hell. If they convert to another sect like Sunni, re they considered with the enemies of Ahlulbayat?

We have numerous ahadith such as this one which state that even those Muwahideen on the Day of Judgement will not be saved if they do not believe in Wilayah:

Quote

From him, from Ibn Bint Ilyas, from Ahmad Bin A'iz, from Abu Al Hassan Al Sawaaq, from Aban Bin Taghlub,

From Abu Abdullah Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام) having said; " Aban! When you proceed to Al-Kufa, so report this Hadeeth, "The one who testifies sincerely that 'there is no god except for Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى))", then Paradise would be Obligatory upon him."

He (Aban) said, "I said to Him, "There come to me every type (of people) so should I report to all of them this Hadeeth?"

Imam (عليه السلام) said: "Yes, O Aban! When it will be the Day of Judgement, and Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Gathers together the former ones and the later ones, He will take away from them, 'There is no god except for Allah ((سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى))', except from the ones who are upon this matter (Wilayah of AhlulBait (as))."

[Source: al-Mahasin, Vol. 1, Pg. 33 & al-Kafi, Vol. 2, Pg. 521]

There's also this hadith:

Quote

Aba Jafar Imam Mohammad Baqir (عليه السلام) said that the Prophet (saww) said,

"Those who leave the Wilayah of Imam Ali (عليه السلام), those who deny His merits, those who manifest/showcase enmity towards Him are out of the fold of Islam, if they die upon that"

[Source: al-Mahasin, Vol. 1, Pg. 186]

I found an article that I thought you might find interesting entitled 'Salvation of Non-Shias'. Here's the link: https://purifiedhousehold.com/salvation-of-non-shias/

Here's the conclusion of the article:

Quote

 

29 minutes ago, coldcow said:

I have never heard of a third Shahadah.  As far as I know, there is only one Shahada.  Seems like anything else would have to have been fabricated well after the completion of Islamic revelations, and thus has no bearing on someone being Muslim or not. 

I also don't see how the Sunnis are the enemies of the Ahlulbayat

The third Shahada is necessary to become a Shia, how can you not have heard of it? It is testifying to the Wilayah of Amirul Momineen (عليه السلام).

Here's some information about the third Shadhada, but I recommend that you do more research yourself: https://en.wikishia.net/view/Third_Testimony

Sunnis love the enemies of AhlulBayt, and that's a fact. Those two (I'm sure you know who I'm talking about) caused so much to go wrong in the lives of the AhlulBayt. 

Imam al-Sadiq (عليه السلام) says in a Ziyarah that he left for us:

Quote

"And curse of Allah be upon those who oppressed You [i.e. AhlulBayt (as)], and snatched your rights and curse of Allah be upon their adherents, their followers and the people of their faith (Ahl-e-Mazhab). I dissociate from them turning to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and You."

[Source: Iqbaal al-A'amal, Vol. 1, Pg. 369-383]

So the followers of those who oppressed AhlulBayt are also cursed. 

35 minutes ago, coldcow said:

We need to stop viewing Sunnis as the enemy, and they need to stop viewing us as the enemy.  Just focus on being better people and living in the example of the prophet.

This I do agree on. We live in a pluralistic society so we have to tolerate others' beliefs. But this does not mean that we compromise our beliefs for others.

May Allah guide the entire Ummah to Sirat Al-Mustaqeem. 

Wassalam.

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Guest Psychological Warfare
إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ {55}

[Shakir 5:55] Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.
[Pickthal 5:55] Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer).
[Yusufali 5:55] Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship).

وَمَنْ يَتَوَلَّ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا فَإِنَّ حِزْبَ اللَّهِ هُمُ الْغَالِبُونَ {56}

[Shakir 5:56] And whoever takes Allah and His messenger and those who believe for a guardian, then surely the party of Allah are they that shall be triumphant.
[Pickthal 5:56] And whoso taketh Allah and His messenger and those who believe for guardian (will know that), lo! the party of Allah, they are the victorious.
[Yusufali 5:56] As to those who turn (for friendship) to Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- it is the fellowship of Allah that must certainly triumph.

&

 

يَا أَيُّهَا الرَّسُولُ بَلِّغْ مَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْكَ مِنْ رَبِّكَ ۖ وَإِنْ لَمْ تَفْعَلْ فَمَا بَلَّغْتَ رِسَالَتَهُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ يَعْصِمُكَ مِنَ النَّاسِ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الْكَافِرِينَ {67}

[Shakir 5:67] O Messenger! deliver what bas been revealed to you from your Lord; and if you do it not, then you have not delivered His message, and Allah will protect you from the people; surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people.
[Pickthal 5:67] O Messenger! Make known that which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord, for if thou do it not, thou wilt not have conveyed His message. Allah will protect thee from mankind. Lo! Allah guideth not the disbelieving folk.
[Yusufali 5:67] O Messenger! proclaim the (message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His mission. And Allah will defend thee from men (who mean mischief). For Allah guideth not those who reject Faith.

Tafsir of 5:55-56

https://almizan.org/

-----

There is no argument here of awareness, We declare it Five times a day.  

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235056780-ali-in-the-athaan/#comment-3133194

 

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On 2/26/2022 at 3:34 AM, coldcow said:

I have never heard of a third Shahadah.  As far as I know, there is only one Shahada.  Seems like anything else would have to have been fabricated well after the completion of Islamic revelations, and thus has no bearing on someone being Muslim or not. 

I also don't see how the Sunnis are the enemies of the Ahlulbayat... 

We need to stop viewing Sunnis as the enemy, and they need to stop viewing us as the enemy.  Just focus on being better people and living in the example of the prophet.

Third Shahada is utterance of a belief in Imamah like we utter belief through first and second shahada. All three shahada are written in Quran at different places. You probably did not search them bro. 

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On 2/26/2022 at 1:21 AM, Lion of Shia said:

If they convert to another sect like Sunni, re they considered with the enemies of Ahlulbayat?

Salam definetly  now because  majority of Sunnis consider themselves  as lovers of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) but on the other hand we have term of "Nasibi" for enemies  of Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) who hate Ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) especially  Imam Ali(عليه السلام) which they deny his Wilayat  although  they  know about truth but on the other hand sunnis who love Ahlulbayt(عليه السلام) but due lack of knowledge  & propaganda  of Nasibi group have not accepted  wilayat of Amir Al Muminin Imam  Ali(عليه السلام) are our brothers  & sisters in faith even they are our souls.

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On 3/5/2022 at 9:53 AM, Borntowitnesstruth said:

Third Shahada is utterance of a belief in Imamah like we utter belief through first and second shahada. All three shahada are written in Quran at different places. You probably did not search them bro. 

Wait, the Qu'ran says that we must say the third Shahada as one of the 5 pillars?  It mentions Imam Ali by name?  Can you please point this to me?

This is all I could find on the matter: https://en.wikishia.net/view/Third_Testimony

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11 hours ago, coldcow said:

Wait, the Qu'ran says that we must say the third Shahada as one of the 5 pillars?  It mentions Imam Ali by name?  Can you please point this to me?

This is all I could find on the matter: https://en.wikishia.net/view/Third_Testimony

Quran does say that Obey Ulil Amr, Imams said that it implies towards imamah of 12 Imams. If you disagree with it, it's your choice bro. 

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On 3/7/2022 at 9:47 AM, coldcow said:

Wait, the Qu'ran says that we must say the third Shahada as one of the 5 pillars?

Quranic verses proving the following of Ahlul Bayt:

https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-qulub-vol3-allamah-muhammad-baqir-al-majlisi/part-9-quranic-verses-proving-following-ahlul

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُوْلِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ

O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle and those in authority (Ulil Amr) from among you. (Sura Nisa 4:59)

 

وَإِذَا جَاءَهُمْ أَمْرٌ مِنَ الْأَمْنِ أَوْ الْخَوْفِ أَذَاعُوا بِهِ وَلَوْ رَدُّوهُ إِلَى الرَّسُولِ وَإِلَى أُوْلِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْهُمْ لَعَلِمَهُ الَّذِينَ يَسْتَنْبِطُونَهُ مِنْهُمْ وَلَوْلَا فَضْلُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَتُهُ لَاتَّبَعْتُمْ الشَّيْطَانَ إِلَّا قَلِيلًا

And when there comes to them news of security or fear they spread it abroad; and if they had referred it to the Apostle and to those in authority among them, those among them who can search out the knowledge of it would have known it... (Sura Nisa :83)

 

أَمْ يَحْسُدُونَ النَّاسَ عَلَى مَا آتَاهُمْ اللَّهُ مِنْ فَضْلِهِ فَقَدْ آتَيْنَا آلَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَآتَيْنَاهُمْ مُلْكًا عَظِيمًا.فَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ آمَنَ بِهِ وَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ صَدَّ عَنْهُ وَكَفَى بِجَهَنَّمَ سَعِيرًا

Or do they envy the people for what Allah has given them of His grace? But indeed We have given to Ibrahim’s children the Book and the wisdom, and We have given them a grand kingdom. So of them is he who believes in him, and of them is he who turns away from him, and hell is sufficient to burn. (Sura Nisa 4:54-55)

On 3/7/2022 at 9:47 AM, coldcow said:

It mentions Imam Ali by name?  Can you please point this to me?

قَالَ هَٰذَا صِرَاطٌ عَلَيَّ مُسْتَقِيمٌ

He said: This is a path upon Me, (that is) straight (15:41)

قَالَ هَٰذَا صِرَاطٌ عَلِيٍّ مُسْتَقِيمٌ

He said: This is a path of Ali, (that is) straight (15:41)

Explanation for the above Ayah with the name of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) in the Quran:

Evidence 1: Unveiling 'Ali' in the Quran

Evidence 2:

 

 

Edited by Zane Ibrahim
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