Imam Ali a failed politician?

[Guest Psychological Warfare]

fyi

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Imam Ali bin abi Taleb: on governance

He who has appointed himself an Imam of the people must begin by teaching himself before teaching others, his teaching of others must be first by setting an example rather than with words, for he who begins by teaching and educating himself is more worthy of respect than he who teaches and educates others. •

Your concern with developing the land should be greater than your concern with collecting taxes, for the latter can only be obtained by developing; whereas he who seeks revenue without development destroys the country and the people.

• Seek the company of the learned and the wise in search of solving the problems of your country and the righteousness of your people. • No good can come in keeping silent as to government or in speaking out of ignorance.

• The righteous are men of virtue, whose logic is straightforward, whose dress is unostentatious, whose path is modest, whose actions are many and who are undeterred by difficulties.

• Choose the best among your people to administer justice among them. Choose someone who does not easily give up, who is unruffled by enmities, someone who will not persist in wrongdoing, who will not hesitate to pursue right once he knows it, someone whose heart knows no greed, who will not be satisfied with a minimum of explanation without seeking the maximum of understanding, who will be the most steadfast when doubt is cast, who will be the least impatient in correcting the opponent, the most patient in pursuing the truth, the most stern in meting out judgment; someone who is unaffected by flattery and not swayed by temptation and these are but few. Source: Nahg El Balagha, interpreted by Imam Mohammad Abdou, Part I, Dar El Balagha, second edition, Beirut, 1985.

Page: 107

Chapter 7: Liberating human capabilities: governance, human development and the Arab world

UNITED NATIONS DEVELOPMENT PRO G R A M M E ARAB FUN D FOR ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT ARAB HUMAN DEVELOPMENT REPORT 2002

http://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/rbas_ahdr2002_en.pdf

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Letter 53: An order to Malik al-Ashtar

Written1 for (Malik) al-Ashtar an-Nakha'i, when the position of Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr had become precarious, and Amir al-mu'minin had appointed al- Ashtar as the Governor of Egypt and the surrounding areas; it is the longest document and contains the greatest number of beautiful sayings.

https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-2-letters-and-sayings/letter-53-order-malik-al-ashtar

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There is no chapter in the charter of the U.N. which is not running parallel to the rules laid down by Ali. In fact better and more useful things are found in the instructions given by him.

In my opinion the difference between the two sets of rules is due to the following four reasons:

Firstly the charter of the United Nations was drafted by thousands of intellectuals belonging to almost all the countries of the world whereas the Alavi rules were enunciated by only one person viz. Ali son of Abu Talib.

Secondly Ali arrived in this world fourteen hundred years ago.

Thirdly those who drafted the U.N. charter or in fact collected the requisite material for it indulged in too much extravagant talk and self-praise and boasted that world was indebted to them on this account. On the contrary Ali showed humility before God and was modest before the people. He did not seek greatness or superiority. He always prayed to God and also wished the people that his acts of commissions and omissions might be overlooked.

The fourth reason for the difference which is more important than the three enumerated above is that many nations, out of those which participated in the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights and endorsed it, violated this declaration and started armed conflicts to nullify and destroy it, but wherever Ali placed his foot, and whenever he said anything, or unsheathed his sword, he did so to destroy tyranny and oppression and leveled the ground to march forward on the path of truth and justice. So much so that he met his martyrdom in defence of human rights, although during his lifetime he had already been martyred thousands of times.

https://www.al-islam.org/voice-human-justice-sautul-adalatil-insaniyah-george-jordac/un-charter-human-rights

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I am leaving among you the Two Weighty Things: the Book of Allah and my `Itrat (Progeny), my Ahlul Bayt. So long as you (simultaneously) uphold both of them, you will never be misled after me; so, do not go ahead of them else you should perish, and do not lag behind them else you should perish; do not teach them, for they are more knowledgeable than you.1

https://www.al-islam.org/shiah-are-real-ahlul-sunnah-muhammad-al-tijani-al-samawi/hadith-al-thaqalayn-according-shias

[Panzerwaffe]

On 1/16/2022 at 4:25 AM, Leibniz said:

All for politics , Imam Ali teamed up with Ziyad bin Abihi as well (father of Obaydullah ibn Ziyad). Ziyad was a irreligious cruel and notorious man born out of wedlock and later joined Maviya. So its not like this that Imam Ali did not play politics , he did but Maviya outsmarted him

lets not forget the bigger fight here is Syria vs iraq , not merely ali and muawiyah.

 

[Panzerwaffe]

On 1/15/2022 at 6:28 AM, Leibniz said:

Though i believe that "infallibility of Imams" is a later day myth and the early Shias did not believe in it 

I agree ! Case in point removal of Qays b saad.

But so is the Sunni myth that all sahaba are reliable reporters of hadith 

[Ashvazdanghe]

10 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

I agree ! Case in point removal of Qays b saad.

But so is the Sunni myth that all sahaba are reliable reporters of hadith 

 

Why did Imam Ali depose Qays bin Sa'ad as the governor of Egypt?

question

According to Shia view, why did Imam Ali (عليه السلام) remove Qays bin Sa'ad from the government of Egypt? Please explain in detail.

 since he was an experienced and clever man serving the Commander the Faithful (عليه السلام), Mu'awiyah could not tolerate him. Therefore, Mu'awiyah forged a letter in which he had feigned to people that Qays had expressed willingness to be loyal to him. Then the false rumor spread among people and the news reached Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)) and those close to him pressurized him to remove Qays from the government. Meanwhile, another incident took place which had to do with Qays bin Sa'ad. It was said that Qays had very accommodating towards the opponents because he believed that in those days of Egypt, it was better to prevent harm from the Imam. This action by Qays was not acceptable for some people. Thus, they considered it as a sign of the rumor being true. They accused him of defecting to Mu'awiyah and then they put pressure on the Imam to depose him.

Eventually, despite Imam Ali (عليه السلام) being certain of Qays's action, he dismissed and replaced him with Muhammad bin Abi Bakr. However, even after this incident, Imam Ali (عليه السلام) chose him as one of his close aides and listened to his advice.

 

Detailed Answer

https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/en22081

[Ashvazdanghe]

On 1/17/2022 at 12:59 AM, Leibniz said:

You are just speaking your belief. You believe that Imam Ali had knowledge of the unseen and what not and so it has become an objective reality just because you believe that. Ziyad was born out of wedlock and after having enjoyed Ali's patronage for some time , Ziyad shifted loyalities to Maviya. Muaviya had "honored" Ziyad by claiming that Ziyad infact was son of Abu Sufyan , fornication that Abu Sufyan had done long ago. Ziyad then used to refer to himself as Ziyad bin abu Sufyan

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Ziyad_b._Abih

Salam you have totally  wrong understanding  from situation of era of Imam Ali(عليه السلام) & case of having knowledge  of unseen by Imam Ali(عليه السلام) which he has been judging people  based on outward  & public image although  he could use unseen because  he gave oppurtunity  to cursed Ziyad to prove himself as a governor  & cutting  his ties from cursed Ummayids  especially  cursed Abu Sufyan & cursed Muawiah  by showing  his talent as governor  in place where his past has not been important  also until martyrdom  of Imam Ali(عليه السلام) he outwardly has been in allegiance  with Imam  Ali(عليه السلام) which Imam has showed that even a talented man likewise him although  of his born condition  can be used by Imam Ali(عليه السلام) as best manager even politician for wellfare of muslim community  in opposition  to cursed Muawiah  which even serving a companion with legitimate  birth under his  command has been damaging to Muslim community .