Ayatollah Bahjat and Tatbir

[Arian.5010]

As salamu alaykum,

What was the opinion of Ayatollab Bahjat on tatbir?  Please provide proof.  

[Ashvazdanghe]

Salam

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Ayatullah Behjat - Clarification on Tatbir incident - Farsi sub English

Ayatullah Bahjat(رضي الله عنه) explaining Ayatullah Isfahani(r)\'s stance on tatbir was that tatbir is haram and that never changed.

http://www.shiatv.net/video/1852804645

Ayatullah Behjat- Clarification on Zanjeer zani/Tatbir incident

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axb1uuhLGjY

 

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The video below shows an explicit case of fabricated information being presented (perhaps unintentionally). The cleric claims that Grand Ayatullah Behjat reports of a fatwa given by Grand Ayatullah Esfahani in support of Tatbir (in reality he was strongly opposed to it). A rather audacious claim is also made that Ayatullah Behjat kept in his possession some clothes drenched with the blood of other people, and he desired to be buried with them! A great and pious man like him would not want to be buried with najis (ritually impure) items.

 

The next video proves that this story, that has been propagated by some blood flagellators, is a fabrication. Ayatullah Behjat himself refutes the whole story.

 

The above example is only one of many. The most common deceptive method used by the propagandists is to misrepresent the actual rulings of the scholars. Often they will present rulings which primarily state the permissibly of these rituals (due to them not being mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah) but they will omit the rulings from the same scholars which prohibit the rituals based on other strong Islamic principles. We encourage people to look at the fatawa page of this site and compare the rulings to those that have been presented in the propaganda material.

https://tatbir.org

[Ashvazdanghe]

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Ayatollah Behjat's response to a suspicion about Tatbir
"What I have quoted is the opposition of the late master Seyyed Abolhassan Isfahani (may God have mercy on him) to the operation of Qamah, and that he remained opposed to it to the end and did not allow anything. "But I do not have such bloody clothes and I have not made such a will."
Published: 10/30/2007 Visits: 3520 Published: 12:21:00
  In response to the referendum, Ayatollah Behjat rejected the allegations against him regarding the beheading permit.

According to the correspondent of Rasa News Agency, Hazrat Ayatollah Mohammad Taqi Behjat, in response to the referendum, rejected the articles attributed to him about the sanctity of the blood of tatbir and the permission of this heresy.

The full text of this referendum and its response is as follows:
"In the presence of Mubarak, the great authority, Hazrat Grand Ayatollah Behjat
Hello;
To Mubarak, a compact disc (CD) entitled "The Oppressed Truth" has been reproduced and distributed for some time in connection with the fatwa of the late Isfahani on the necessity of Tatbir. They have accustomed some words of you about sacredness  of   the blood of womenTatbiri people  and the will of your Holiness will to accompany [bloody cloth] in your shroud and grave, and in this article they have cited about your Holiness.
Thank you, a group of imitators of your Holiness, Tehran, Imam Musa Ibn Jafar (عليه السلام) Mosque

Response:
 Basmeh Ta'ali
"What I have quoted is the opposition of the late Pmaster Seyyed Abolhassan Isfahani (may God have mercy on him) to the operation of Qamah, and that he remained opposed to it to the end and did not allow anything.
"But I do not have such bloody clothes and I have not made such a will."

It is worth mentioning that in the current era, due to the widespread propaganda against the Shiite school, the authorities and elders are strongly opposed to Tatbir and similar acts that cause the religion and the school of the Ahl al-Bayt (عليه السلام) to be deceived, and consider it a kind of heresy. In this regard, the Qom Guidance Office has published a book entitled "Hidden Hands", the history of Tatbir and the views of religious authorities and elders regarding this deviant act.

It is worth mentioning that the full text of the book "Hidden Hand" is available in the reports section of Rasa News Agency at http://www.rasanews.com/Negaresh_site/FullStory/?Id=26053.

https://hawzah.net/fa/News/View/49010/پاسخ-آیت-الله-بهجت-به-شبهه-ای-درباره-قمه-زنی

https://sarallah.valiasr-aj.com/include/VIEW.php?bankname=LIBLIST&RADIF=0000070007

 

 

[Ashvazdanghe]

https://www.aparat.com/v/E7Hg3/نظر_آیت_الله_بهجت_درباره_قمه_زنی

[Abu Nur]

Tatbir itself is not an issue, but tatbir practiced on our current era where it gives bad image to Islam itself is issue. Some of the scholars allow it because they do not see that it gives an bad image about Islam. 

[Arian.5010]

On 1/15/2022 at 6:17 AM, Abu Nur said:

Tatbir itself is not an issue, but tatbir practiced on our current era where it gives bad image to Islam itself is issue. Some of the scholars allow it because they do not see that it gives an bad image about Islam. 

What to do most scholars think of zanjeer zani (the one with the blades that make you bleed)?  Have seen peoples back literally cut with a depth of 2-3 inches.  Now I know some scholars say if Tatbir causes significant harm you must stay away from it.  
 

Also I'm really confused on the tatbir issue since great scholars like Grand Ayatollah Abdul Hassan Isfahani had said that it's impermissible. 

[Muhammad A-H]

3 hours ago, Arian.5010 said:

Now I know some scholars say if Tatbir causes significant harm you must stay away from it.  

All scholars say that if it causes significant harm it is haram.

[Arian.5010]

6 hours ago, Muhammad A-H said:

All scholars say that if it causes significant harm it is haram.

I'm just wondering, do you consider this as significant haram?

 

[Abu Nur]

11 hours ago, Arian.5010 said:

What to do most scholars think of zanjeer zani (the one with the blades that make you bleed)?  Have seen peoples back literally cut with a depth of 2-3 inches.  Now I know some scholars say if Tatbir causes significant harm you must stay away from it.  
 

Also I'm really confused on the tatbir issue since great scholars like Grand Ayatollah Abdul Hassan Isfahani had said that it's impermissible. 

Yes, we can not cause harm to ourselves nor we can put ourself in danger. The Scholars who give permissible to this act always gives expection that as long it does not cause harm and put yourself to danger and cause bad image to Islam.

[Mark Enlightment]

Not a single reply answers the question here.. 

 

Anyway, sheikh Bahjat's opinion on tatbir can be known from his actual works, or authentic ones narrating his words. I don't think anyone doubts WikiShia here so:

"The following marja's or Shiite authorities have ruled that tatbir is permissible or even recommended:

• Muhammad Taqi Bahjat

https://en.wikishia.net/view/Tatbir "

 

About that lengthy quote about Isfahani's opinion, that has NOTHING to do with sheikh Bahjat's.